Louisville and the ACC
- Thread starter TFBaum
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They have a good overall athletic department in a fairly large city. They have a very good basketball program that brings in a lot of money, and have been good in football for periods of time.
Not to debate but to extend the conversation doesn’t UCONN have the same footprint?
Sleazy in both basketball and football. Among my top 5 most disliked athletic programs.
The problem with UConn was football. FSU, and Clemson wanted a school that would help with the ACC's reputation in football. Louisville is no blue blood, but they're light years ahead of what UConn is. There was talk that if UConn was added, the two football powers might look into leaving the ACC. All things being equal, WVU would have been preferable to Louisville, but they had already thrown their lot in with the B12.
I love all the academics related decisions. It makes me laugh. The chemistry department doesn’t line up to play football. My academic snob wife, Cal grad, always points out that schools with medical schools have to be somewhat okay.
Agree, but if academics don't matter, WVU would be a better fit. I understand how the whole thing played out. No one knew that Maryland would leave the ACC, so you can't blame WVU for jumping at the B12 offer. Hell, we were looking at the B12 before the ACC came to the rescue.
Louisville has a far superior football program to UConn, and a better overall athletic program.
UMD is dead man walking. My children had swim meets at their natatorium which is world class but they can’t field a men’s and women’s swim team. UMD is in so much debt. They thought Under Armor was going to save them.
As you know, WVU had signed their grant-of-right with the B12 already. They weren't available.
But there are also media markets to consider and historical issues between the old guard ACC going back to the Southern Conference. WVU also has a very poor fan base reputation, as you are likely aware, and that also factors into consideration when considering permanent partnerships.
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For athletics, Louisville was a great get. And first and foremost, the ACC is an athletic conference. When you have your choice between otherwise equivalent athletic programs, than secondary considerations like academics can make a difference. These are, afterall, the partners you're choosing to associate yourself with permanently. The ACC was not in a position to pick and choose. UConn football was a non-starter for a conference trying to build its football reputation and revenue.
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I know you are in the academic world but in my opinion I laugh when folks engage in the academic connection for sports. If that was the case Stanford would only play Duke Uva et al
WVU belongs in the sun belt conference. They would be in the Hatfield Division opposite the McCoy Division
I was. I am actually not anymore.
There is an academic component, but it all depends on the situation and context. It is often overblown. When push comes to shove, $ wins.
I want to make it clear I have complete respect for ameoba defense and he is one of the most knowledgeable posters on these boards, and I learn a lot from ameoba. I certainly did not intend any such tone.
I was simply pointing out that there are two other factors that weigh against WVU (other than the B12 had their media rights already locked up). Their small media market, which overlaps with Pitt's, which was already a ACC member at the time and makes WVU less valuable to the ACC. And that there was a historical issue that dates back to SoCon members voting to suspend Clemson and Maryland for playing in bowl games. I don't know if it is true, but some ACC alumni state there is still some animosity to old SoCon members like WVU. That bowl issue is why the ACC formed from members that split off from the SoCon.
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Why did you waste your time responding to him. I love your response and they are not rude
Me? I went to the United States Naval Academy from 1981 - 84. I graduated number 235. What is your issue? I made it through power school. Do you know what that school is?
The ACC should have taken Cincinnati. Both football and basketball have been solid and their academics are better than both Louisville and WVU...
I haven’t read the rest of this thread but I would have to say Boston college had the New England market and Louisville extended the market
Louisville has better athletic programs than Cincy, better facilities, & much more money to throw at it: UL had $140m in athletic revenue in 2019, compared to $67m for Cincy which is also heavily subsidized by student fees. Something like $26m is due to differences in conference distributions, so that is almost $50m more in operational revenue.
If you go by US News, Cincy is #139. It would have been dead last in the ACC too. Incoming ACT scores are half a point different. Research expenditure totals are $161m at Cincy to $133m at UL... not really that far apart.
No, WVU was in the B12 before Maryland left, and their media rights had been transferred to the B12 already making them, for all practical purposes, unavailable. They were never considered by the ACC at that time for that reason.
WVU was selected over UL for the B12. It was a knock down, drag out fight to get, what was then, the last seat on the lifeboat. State politicians got involved. In the end, WVU was willing to pay a big exit penalty to leave the Big East immediately, instead of waiting a for a reduced buyout like Pitt and SU, because the B12's media contracts would be renegotiated if membership fell below 10 so the B12 needed a school that could participate immediately. I don't know if UL was as willing to do that (probably).
If both WVU and UL had been available to the ACC following Maryland's departure, who knows what would have happened. UL provides a new market. Pitt, and maybe SU, would have pushed for WVU. But I don't know if tobacco road would have, and I don't know how the southern wing (GT-Clemson-FSU-Miami) would have felt. It would have been between UL and WVU though. I think UL is probably better for the conference, because of the new market and financial wherewithal of their athletic department, but WVU would have been better for Pitt.
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But didn't the ACC reject them before Maryland left? Lousyville has huge hoops revenue and no pro team to siphon off interest. I recall Luck feeling like the B12 was punishment.
Well, Oliver Luck apparently believed WVU had a good shot at an SEC invite. They were pursuing that angle. It was a mirage. But most of the Big East football schools were reaching out to any takers at that point. So the question is did WVU contact the ACC? Probably to say, "if you are interested, we're here." I don't think anything with the ACC was ever far enough along to be considered a formal rejection. They just weren't selected. Pitt and Syracuse were selected. Then ND was added in everything but football. PSU was apparently being targetted until Maryland left. They were still reeling from the scandal and a contingent there felt they were historically unappreciated by the B10, geographically isolated (B10 ignored repeated requests for further eastern (non-Pitt) expansion), and that their conference left them out to dry during their heinous scandal. PSU leaving was likely never going to happen, but the B10 poaching UMD definitively ended it.
Before the ACC invite came to Pitt, it had been considered, but not selected, by the B10 (and market overlap and vehement opposition by PSU doomed it), and I believe Pitt had put feelers out to the ACC as well. Before Pitt and 'Cuse received their ACC invites, the B12 was pursuing Pitt as #10. Pitt, however, didn't want to go that far west without partners, and was pushing WVU and one of Rutgers or Louisville. The B12 was reluctant and the ACC swooped in. We'll never know if Pitt could have forced the issue. It may be hard for our hoopie friends to swallow, but for the Big12, WVU was the next best thing it could get to Pitt (one of the things they were looking or was a toehold in the eastern market, which is why for the ACC, things might have looked reversed market-wise if there had been a decision to make between WVU and Louisville).
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