Marcus Carr

[thebadby2]

I said it before
I have Carr as 4th on the list of 4 players worth keeping from the undergrads.
Stewart, brown, Stevenson, and Carr.

Need all 4 of them and then some to field a team next year.Capel isn't gong to be able to add much this recruiting cycle and I don't think we want to see a starting backcourt of Mascaro and Starzynski next season.

Apart from that, Carr has some real upside. This was a valuable developmental year of playing a ton of minutes as a true freshman in the ACC. We don't need him going anywhere.

 

[HOF Coach]

None of PITT's guards have the speed and quickness needed on a championship caliber team...on both sides of the court.

The coach knows that because he scouted and prepped to play PITT.

The players know that because they struggled to be effective against top level competition. This is one of the reasons that PITT suffered with so many long scoring droughts in multiple games this past season.

Credit to the PITT guards for trying their best under adverse playing conditions. They never quit despite being severely undermanned.

 

[thebadby2]

None of PITT's guards have the speed and quickness needed on a championship caliber team...on both sides of the court.

The coach knows that because he scouted and prepped to play PITT.

The players know that because they struggled to be effective against top level competition. This is one of the reasons that PITT suffered with so many long scoring droughts in multiple games this past season.

Credit to the PITT guards for trying their best under adverse playing conditions. They never quit despite being severely undermanned.

Pitt is several years minimum from even sniffing a "championship caliber team", assuming you;re talking about an ACC championship caliber team. What's needed right now is capable all the D1 players Pitt can get.

Secondly, these guys were true freshmen thrust into action in the toughest league in the country. They will grow and improve. Pitt did pretty well with some pretty limited athletes in the backcourt under Howland and Dixon. Nobody would ever mistake Ramon, Fields, Brandin, Wanamaker etc. as having much "speed and quickness".

 

[bwh05]

This is why I'm excited about the Capel hire. College sports are weird, to me, being a good recruiter matters more than coaching the actual games. If Capel is looking at Carr and saying, "Stay, Go, do what you want" then that tells me Capel thinks it's not hard to do better and that's what kind of coach I want. GETTING TALENT is more important than having a good system.

I agree, you can’t win the Kentucky Derby with a mule and in college the onus is on the coach to find the horses

 

[HOF Coach]

Pitt is several years minimum from even sniffing a "championship caliber team", assuming you;re talking about an ACC championship caliber team. What's needed right now is capable all the D1 players Pitt can get.

Secondly, these guys were true freshmen thrust into action in the toughest league in the country. They will grow and improve. Pitt did pretty well with some pretty limited athletes in the backcourt under Howland and Dixon. Nobody would ever mistake Ramon, Fields, Brandin, Wanamaker etc. as having much "speed and quickness".

Your points are valid and I am not disputing that at all. I have great respect for these kids and how hard they competed.

However, Capel is raising the bar now. How PITT's guards measure up to his heightened expectations will determine whether they stay or go (regardless who makes that decision).

Because of timing, tbat decision may be delayed a year for some since Capel will not have the benefit of a full recruiting season to attract the type of guard that he requires. He made it clear though that in his mind, the point guard is the only true position in today's college game. The other 4 positions are interchangeable. The back to the basket center position has been rendered extinct.

 

[levance2]

You've lost me now. My point is Carr being a starter as a senior doesn't necessarily mean that Capel will have failed. I'd say there's a fair chance Carr could develop into a top-half ACC talent with some maturity and coaching.

Ramon was “good enough” to start at Pitt, but he wasn’t better than other players on our roster. Just because Dixon had Ramon didn’t stop him from signing a better player (Fields) the year after.

Whether Carr makes a GLF has no bearing on the fact that Capel is going to be out there scouting better PGs than Carr, and hopefully signing them.

 

[88Pitt88]

Need all 4 of them and then some to field a team next year.Capel isn't gong to be able to add much this recruiting cycle and I don't think we want to see a starting backcourt of Mascaro and Starzynski next season.

Apart from that, Carr has some real upside. This was a valuable developmental year of playing a ton of minutes as a true freshman in the ACC. We don't need him going anywhere.

I concur, It is like these people think Capel can click his heals together 3 times and magically we will have a full roster of 4 star players appear. We are going to need to retain some of these players to field a team this season, and also in an effort to keep some class balance. Marcus, Terrell, and Shamiel as well as Stewart, if not already gone, at least know what it is like to play in this league. I expect Capel to recruit well, but, give the guy a little time. Expecting him to work magic for the upcoming season without any of our guys returning, would be a bit of a magic act!

 

[thebadby2]

Your points are valid and I am not disputing that at all. I have great respect for these kids and how hard they competed.

However, Capel is raising the bar now. How PITT's guards measure up to his heightened expectations will determine whether they stay or go (regardless who makes that decision).

Because of timing, tbat decision may be delayed a year for some since Capel will not have the benefit of a full recruiting season to attract the type of guard that he requires. He made it clear though that in his mind, the point guard is the only true position in today's college game. The other 4 positions are interchangeable. The back to the basket center position has been rendered extinct.

HOF, don't get me wrong, I'm all for adding some team quickness and athleticism, especially in the backcourt. Been sorely lacking around here for a long time. My only point is we need to keep the best of these current guys to build on.

 

[HOF Coach]

Ramon was “good enough” to start at Pitt, but he wasn’t better than other players on our roster. Just because Dixon had Ramon didn’t stop him from signing a better player (Fields) the year after.

Whether Carr makes a GLF has no bearing on the fact that Capel is going to be out there scouting better PGs than Carr, and hopefully signing them.

To further support your point, just look at Duke this year. Despite having an abundance of blue chip players, Capel saw their fatal flaw exposed...the lack of a point guard. Duke tried to compensate by moving Grayson Allen there because of his senior experience.

 

[HOF Coach]

HOF, don't get me wrong, I'm all for adding some team quickness and athleticism, especially in the backcourt. Been sorely lacking around here for a long time. My only point is we need to keep the best of these current guys to build on.

Agreed. Thanks...

 

[joeydavid]

I'll take a Levance and Wanamaker backcourt any year. You don't need to be blazing fast/quick to play defense or to go by people. The old successful Pitt teams got by people more on strength than speed..

I agree- most of issues this team had was being inexperienced and young.

I would like to see this group intact as Jrs. But they definitely need to make changes to the current strength and conditioning program. Whatever they were doing didn't seem to be working.

Pitt is several years minimum from even sniffing a "championship caliber team", assuming you;re talking about an ACC championship caliber team. What's needed right now is capable all the D1 players Pitt can get.

Secondly, these guys were true freshmen thrust into action in the toughest league in the country. They will grow and improve. Pitt did pretty well with some pretty limited athletes in the backcourt under Howland and Dixon. Nobody would ever mistake Ramon, Fields, Brandin, Wanamaker etc. as having much "speed and quickness".

 

[gary2]

None of PITT's guards have the speed and quickness needed on a championship caliber team...on both sides of the court.

The coach knows that because he scouted and prepped to play PITT.

The players know that because they struggled to be effective against top level competition. This is one of the reasons that PITT suffered with so many long scoring droughts in multiple games this past season.

Credit to the PITT guards for trying their best under adverse playing conditions. They never quit despite being severely undermanned.

I think this is right

 

[Cavalier Panther]

I also think we're underselling Carr. He's a good player who was in an impossible situation. There's only so much a lead guard can do in a stagnant offense that only shoots 3 pointers and doesn't rebound. Obviously his results this year weren't great, but he's got potential.

Wasn't he like a 4 star top 150 recruit? Obviously people thought he had the makeup to be a good player and I'm not willing to discount that because he played on an abysmal team. There are certainly guys on the roster I'd trade in for any old 3 star top 300 player, but Marcus isn't one of them.

 

[HOF Coach]

When UCLA was winning 10 National Championships in 12 years, their legendary coach, John Wooden, was asked "What do you look for in a recruit?"

His simple response to that question took me by surprise.

"My goal is to recruit the quickest player for each position on the court. Everything else, we can teach them."

 

[bobfree]

Jesus Christ, the speculation. This is literally 3rd hand info.

And a freshmen, playing out of position, with all other freshmen playing still had a great year.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Ramon was “good enough” to start at Pitt, but he wasn’t better than other players on our roster. Just because Dixon had Ramon didn’t stop him from signing a better player (Fields) the year after.

Whether Carr makes a GLF has no bearing on the fact that Capel is going to be out there scouting better PGs than Carr, and hopefully signing them.

Just like any other coach would do !

 

[thebadby2]

I'll take a Levance and Wanamaker backcourt any year. You don't need to be blazing fast/quick to play defense or to go by people. The old successful Pitt teams got by people more on strength than speed..

I agree- most of issues this team had was being inexperienced and young.

I would like to see this group intact as Jrs. But they definitely need to make changes to the current strength and conditioning program. Whatever they were doing didn't seem to be working.

I would too, believe me. But they weren't anybody's idea of thoroughbred athletes, that's for sure. At 6'4 Wanamaker could barely dunk. Levance couldn't even think about one. Both were excellent college basketball players, but not great athletes.

 

[Jpripper88]

If Carr graduates as our starting PG then Capel has failed as a recruiter.

I agree that is likely true, but that doesn't mean it will be in his best interests to transfer. He isn't going to be an NBA player and he isn't going to have many transfer options right now. He will play here the next two years and may improve enough to be a good contributor on a good team. If not, he will have options as a grad transfer, if he can graduate in 3 years.

 

[joeydavid]

There was a long-standing debate on whether or not Brandin could dunk a basketball. He finally silenced his critics as a senior, I believe, when he "gracefully" barely threw one down on a break.

I would too, believe me. But they weren't anybody's idea of thoroughbred athletes, that's for sure. At 6'4 Wanamaker could barely dunk. Levance couldn't even think about one. Both were excellent college basketball players, but not great athletes.

 

[CJsE]

When UCLA was winning 10 National Championships in 12 years, their legendary coach, John Wooden, was asked "What do you look for in a recruit?"

His simple response to that question took me by surprise.

"My goal is to recruit the quickest player for each position on the court. Everything else, we can teach them."

And when asked about how his team would defend the 3-pointer he said "What the **** is a 3-point line?"

 

[Jpripper88]

Jesus Christ, the speculation. This is literally 3rd hand info.

And a freshmen, playing out of position, with all other freshmen playing still had a great year.

The first 3 things are true, and reason to hope for a lot of improvement, but he most definitely did not have a great year. He struggled mightily in almost every aspect of the game.

 

[pittzap]

There was a long-standing debate on whether or not Brandin could dunk a basketball. He finally silenced his critics as a senior, I believe, when he "gracefully" barely threw one down on a break.

But Brandin, Levance, and Wanamaker could do one thing really welll...finish at the rim. No one on the team could this year. That would have helped cut down on the 6:00 plus scoring droughts every single game. Instead, they kept chucking up three pointer after three pointer and didn't even waste time trying to get offensive rebounds.

 

[FreeportPanther]

I concur, It is like these people think Capel can click his heals together 3 times and magically we will have a full roster of 4 star players appear. We are going to need to retain some of these players to field a team this season, and also in an effort to keep some class balance. Marcus, Terrell, and Shamiel as well as Stewart, if not already gone, at least know what it is like to play in this league. I expect Capel to recruit well, but, give the guy a little time. Expecting him to work magic for the upcoming season without any of our guys returning, would be a bit of a magic act!

Wait a Minute, He Can't??????

 

[joeydavid]

2 of those 3 were disasters as freshmen. I'm not sure any of them finished well at the rim as freshmen.

Brad in particular looked totally over matched as a freshman.

But Brandin, Levance, and Wanamaker could do one thing really welll...finish at the rim. No one on the team could this year. That would have helped cut down on the 6:00 plus scoring droughts every single game. Instead, they kept chucking up three pointer after three pointer and didn't even waste time trying to get offensive rebounds.

 

[HOF Coach]

2 of those 3 were disasters as freshmen. I'm not sure any of them finished well at the rim as freshmen.

Brad in particular looked totally over matched as a freshman.

Joey - he was so bad that some fans even booed him, as unfair as that is. Brad really proved them wrong!

 

[doubleAA's]

I also think we're underselling Carr. He's a good player who was in an impossible situation. There's only so much a lead guard can do in a stagnant offense that only shoots 3 pointers and doesn't rebound. Obviously his results this year weren't great, but he's got potential.

Wasn't he like a 4 star top 150 recruit? Obviously people thought he had the makeup to be a good player and I'm not willing to discount that because he played on an abysmal team. There are certainly guys on the roster I'd trade in for any old 3 star top 300 player, but Marcus isn't one of them.

He is a good player, but hardly not replaceable. Like, at all. Making public statements about keeping options open is bush league. I’d cut them loose. Right after a coach is hired to say such things is just lame. Just don’t answer the phone or twitter for a few weeks

 

[NCanton Panther]

I'll take a Levance and Wanamaker backcourt any year. You don't need to be blazing fast/quick to play defense or to go by people. The old successful Pitt teams got by people more on strength than speed..

I agree- most of issues this team had was being inexperienced and young.

I would like to see this group intact as Jrs. But they definitely need to make changes to the current strength and conditioning program. Whatever they were doing didn't seem to be working.

Yeah I’ll take a Levance and Wanamaker backcourt to get back to respectable as well. But if you ever want to take it to the next level, I’ll definitely emphasize the quickness over the strength you’re touting. Precise reason why we were never able to take it to the next level, never had the quickness to adequately defend against the good to elite talent, or to effectively take it to the hole against them.

 

[thebadby2]

But Brandin, Levance, and Wanamaker could do one thing really welll...finish at the rim. No one on the team could this year. That would have helped cut down on the 6:00 plus scoring droughts every single game. Instead, they kept chucking up three pointer after three pointer and didn't even waste time trying to get offensive rebounds.

No guard on any of the past 4-5 Pitt teams could. Hell we had a starting point guard for 4 years who was unable to drive the ball to the rim. Unfortunately he also wasn't a good shooter.

 

[joeydavid]

That mythical next level- like being a 1 or 2 seed. If they were only quicker, maybe they could have been a top 10 team or a high seed.

Yeah I’ll take a Levance and Wanamaker backcourt to get back to respectable as well. But if you ever want to take it to the next level, I’ll definitely emphasize the quickness over the strength you’re touting. Precise reason why we were never able to take it to the next level, never had the quickness to adequately defend against the good to elite talent, or to effectively take it to the hole against them.

 

[thebadby2]

Joey - he was so bad that some fans even booed him, as unfair as that is. Brad really proved them wrong!

I don't think many people get how hard it is to make the jump from HS to P6 and play well as a true freshman. With very few exceptions, true freshmen are going to struggle.

 

[bobfree]

He was the first freshmen to average more then 10 points a game since Dejuan Blair...

His freshmen seasons compare favorably to Knight, Wanamaker, and Fields.

And the talent around him was Not nearly the same

 

[JS School]

I like Carr. But more as a SG than a PG. I'd rather see him to stay, but if he doesn't because he's thinking he'll be recruited over as a PG ... see ya.

 

[Jpripper88]

He was the first freshmen to average more then 10 points a game since Dejuan Blair...

His freshmen seasons compare favorably to Knight, Wanamaker, and Fields.

And the talent around him was Not nearly the same

But you said he had a "great year." He struggled mightily to shoot, get to the rim, finish, play defense, and handle the basketball. I think he has the potential to be a solid player for Pitt, but this year highlighted some clear issues he needs to improve upon to get there. Some of them are issues/traits which are rarely improved by significant measures.

He probably had a better year than Brad, but Brad didn't play much, so I'm not sure which way it would have gone if the roles were reversed. Fields and Knight had better years by pretty much any total measure. Advanced stats call him the worst of the 4 by a pretty wide margin, but I think it is closer.

I definitely want Carr to come back, but he struggled in a big way this season. Of our 8 (not including Luther) rotation players, only Milligan was worse in ORtg AND DRtg. Stewart was also worse in DRtg and Davis was worse in ORtg. That is it.

 

[NCanton Panther]

That mythical next level- like being a 1 or 2 seed. If they were only quicker, maybe they could have been a top 10 team or a high seed.

You can call it the ‘mythical’ next level all u want or puff your chest about our past 1 or 2 seeds, doesn’t change the fact that we were limited in what we could accomplish largely because of lack of quickness against the elite talent. Not many people remember what seed u were (unless UVA 2018), only how u performed.

 

[ChooChoo Panther]

I don’t hate any of them. Some of them should be kept, and I personally hope they end up staying their entire careers. But if Carr is here 4 years, he’s going to be playing less and less each season, or else Capel isn’t doing his job. I’m not sure Carr wants to lock himself into an eventual reserve role. If not, then he’s better off, presumably, leaving sooner than later. I see Carr as comparable to Keith Benjamin, who is actually one of my favorite Panthers.

If you had any bit of nuance in your faux outrage, you’d know that I’ve been one of the only consistent supporters of Stevenson. I really hope he stays and gets better development from a new staff. He has the highest ceiling of any of our returning freshmen, IMO. It did not seem to me that KS put much effort into refining his game, and his minutes were very unpredictable.

Your scenario on Carr is a possibility. He was a turnover machine his freshman year. Can he develop into a first class point guard? Not sure, but he can in the right system for him.

I do like Stevenson. He does not get intimidated. He can create his own shot. He has high potential if put in the a system where he is optimally utilized.

 

[joeydavid]

By that logic, if Reynolds doesn't make a lay-up; you would think that Pitt team was better than you currently do?

You can call it the ‘mythical’ next level all u want or puff your chest about our past 1 or 2 seeds, doesn’t change the fact that we were limited in what we could accomplish largely because of lack of quickness against the elite talent. Not many people remember what seed u were (unless UVA 2018), only how u performed.

 

[NCanton Panther]

But you said he had a "great year." He struggled mightily to shoot, get to the rim, finish, play defense, and handle the basketball. I think he has the potential to be a solid player for Pitt, but this year highlighted some clear issues he needs to improve upon to get there. Some of them are issues/traits which are rarely improved by significant measures.

He probably had a better year than Brad, but Brad didn't play much, so I'm not sure which way it would have gone if the roles were reversed. Fields and Knight had better years by pretty much any total measure. Advanced stats call him the worst of the 4 by a pretty wide margin, but I think it is closer.

I definitely want Carr to come back, but he struggled in a big way this season. Of our 8 (not including Luther) rotation players, only Milligan was worse in ORtg AND DRtg. Stewart was also worse in DRtg and Davis was worse in ORtg. That is it.

I think Carr’s problem or limitation is that he is what many describe him as, a combo guard. He can be serviceable as a PG, he’s just not quick enough to be an elite one. And I don’t think he’s a good enough outside shooter to be an elite level 2 either.

But I think you’re a little harsh on your assessment. For not having the elite quickness, I thought he was surprisingly successful at getting to the rim. He wasn’t as successful at finishing but I always thought he could improve that with experience.

I also thought he handled the ball adequately, his turnovers seemed to be more due to mental mistakes, bad decisions or lack of options, didn’t seem like he was ever overwhelmed by aggressive defense or pressure such as WVU and others.

 

[bobfree]

But you said he had a "great year." He struggled mightily to shoot, get to the rim, finish, play defense, and handle the basketball. I think he has the potential to be a solid player for Pitt, but this year highlighted some clear issues he needs to improve upon to get there. Some of them are issues/traits which are rarely improved by significant measures.

He probably had a better year than Brad, but Brad didn't play much, so I'm not sure which way it would have gone if the roles were reversed. Fields and Knight had better years by pretty much any total measure. Advanced stats call him the worst of the 4 by a pretty wide margin, but I think it is closer.

I definitely want Carr to come back, but he struggled in a big way this season. Of our 8 (not including Luther) rotation players, only Milligan was worse in ORtg AND DRtg. Stewart was also worse in DRtg and Davis was worse in ORtg. That is it.

Oh god...

Misspoke saying “great” I apologize.

Just forget it....

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Jesus Christ, the speculation. This is literally 3rd hand info.

And a freshmen, playing out of position, with all other freshmen playing still had a great year.

He really didn’t in acc play

 

[Harve74]

He really didn’t in acc play

Something went south in his game partway through the season. Maybe he isn't ACC caliber talent, but he definitely dropped off. Quite possible he was just overwhelmed.

It's tough to gauge where he will be in another year or two. Some kids get better. Some regress. Brad was quite overmatched as a freshman and is now possibly the best professional PG not playing in the NBA.

Maybe Marcus just didn't fit Stallings' system. I'm not sure he's a lead guard, nor athletic enough and has shooting skills enough to be a 2. He's a decent combo who could be a valued reserve at both guard spots for a team starting over in building a roster.

At worst, he's pretty good depth.