Minn/Clemson - Hypothetical

[FireballZ]

I really like Marcus Carr...in a dream world, do you think he and Xavier could have coexisted? I realize Xavier probably wouldn't have come here had Marcus stayed, but I think it could have worked well. Could our offense work with two ball handlers out there, with Carr being the lead PG?

Also, been tough to watch Cofi be borderline dominate in the paint this year for the Illini. He’d have changed our program.

 

[MarySki]

He lookin' pretty good tonight.

 

[DT_PITT]

I really like Marcus Carr...in a dream world, do you think he and Xavier could have coexisted? I realize Xavier probably wouldn't have come here had Marcus stayed, but I think it could have worked well. Could our offense work with two ball handlers out there, with Carr being the lead PG?

Also, been tough to watch Cofi be borderline dominate in the paint this year for the Illini. He’d have changed our program.

I wasn't a huge fan of Marcus but he looks really good tonight. But he wasn't going to change our program. If he didn't want to be here then so be it.

Cofi on the other hand, probably would have changed some things.

 

[FireballZ]

I wasn't a huge fan of Marcus but he looks really good tonight. But he wasn't going to change our program. If he didn't want to be here then so be it.

Cofi on the other hand, probably would have changed some things.

Not crying over spilt milk with Carr, just wondering if some of the board posters with more technical knowledge of the game such as yourself think X could play alongside another PG a bit more off the ball?

 

[Chescat]

I wasn't a huge fan of Marcus but he looks really good tonight. But he wasn't going to change our program. If he didn't want to be here then so be it.

Cofi on the other hand, probably would have changed some things.

Well, on this I guess we disagree. I felt Carr was our best player on a
horrible team and posted that on here more than once.. He started
off here ok and seemed to be developing as a true frosh. As the team
went in the toilet, he took it upon himself to try and do it all and his stats
suffered. He literally had very, very little around him, but his talent was
obvious...at least to me it was.
In some ways X's doing too much on occasion reminds me of what
Carr's season here looked like.
However watching him tonight shows us what he's like with good coaching
and talented players. I stopped watching tonight's game with several
minutes left...Carr had 22 pts. at that time, and several assists. The
announcers continually talked him up.

 

[DT_PITT]

Not crying over spilt milk with Carr, just wondering if some of the board posters with more technical knowledge of the game such as yourself think X could play alongside another PG a bit more off the ball?

I understood -- didn't mean to imply that was your meaning. Sorry.

It's so hard to say. Carr isn't a classic distributor lead guard, and of course X is a scoring lead guard.

 

[pittzap]

Not crying over spilt milk with Carr, just wondering if some of the board posters with more technical knowledge of the game such as yourself think X could play alongside another PG a bit more off the ball?

He basically shoots the same percentages he shot here, which are low - something like 35% from the field and 31% from 3 - both are really low. He just shoots more. I don’t think he would get enough shots to score much. The games he has scored points he has shot the ball a lot. There are games he doesn’t score much, too. I saw him against DePaul and Butler and he looked bad. I saw him against Utah and he looked pretty good, although he was 5-15 shooting. They lost all three games I watched and they are 4-4 this season.

For comparison sake, X, who is struggling this year so far, is shooting 37.5% from the field and 39% from 3, although Carr has shot 12 more in the same number of games.

 

[FireballZ]

I understood -- didn't mean to imply that was your meaning. Sorry.

It's so hard to say. Carr isn't a classic distributor lead guard, and of course X is a scoring lead guard.

I’ve only seen Minn twice, versus Utah and tonight. Think he had 6/7 assists the first game and then 9/10 tonight. Seems he’s distributing pretty well. That said, Minnesota has a very good big man, so he probably wouldn’t have as many “easy” assists here.

 

[DT_PITT]

Well, on this I guess we disagree. I felt Carr was our best player on a
horrible team and posted that on here more than once.. He started
off here ok and seemed to be developing as a true frosh. As the team
went in the toilet, he took it upon himself to try and do it all and his stats
suffered. He literally had very, very little around him, but his talent was
obvious...at least to me it was.
In some ways X's doing too much on occasion reminds me of what
Carr's season here looked like.
However watching him tonight shows us what he's like with good coaching
and talented players. I stopped watching tonight's game with several
minutes left...Carr had 22 pts. at that time, and several assists. The
announcers continually talked him up.

Sure, we can certainly disagree. My issue with Marcus was that I just didn't see him getting by people with the dribble nor did I see him as a great distributor.

But I did think he was a pretty good player. Just not one we "needed" here to get our program back on track.

He did look pretty good tonight. Hurt his leg near the end. Hope he’s OK.

 

[FireballZ]

He basically shoots the same percentages he shot here. He just shoots more. I don’t think he would get enough shots to score much.

Yeah, his shooting percentages aren’t very good so far, but they said the coaches got into him after their last game and he shot much better and in control tonight. I think it’s too early to judge him, Parker Stewart or any player that has to sit a full year after only a handful of games until they get up to normal game speed.

 

[joeydavid]

He basically shoots the same percentages he shot here, which are low - something like 35% from the field and 31% from 3 - both are really low. He just shoots more. I don’t think he would get enough shots to score much. The games he has scored points he has shot the ball a lot. There are games he doesn’t score much, too. I saw him against DePaul and Butler and he looked bad. I saw him against Utah and he looked pretty good, although he was 5-15 shooting. They lost all three games I watched and they are 4-4 this season.

For comparison sake, X, who is struggling this year so far, is shooting 37.5% from the field and 39% from 3, although Carr has shot 12 more in the same number of games.

Carr is also a big liability on the defensive end. For that reason alone I couldn't see him getting many minutes under Capel.

 

[pittjas]

I really like Marcus Carr...in a dream world, do you think he and Xavier could have coexisted? I realize Xavier probably wouldn't have come here had Marcus stayed, but I think it could have worked well. Could our offense work with two ball handlers out there, with Carr being the lead PG?

Also, been tough to watch Cofi be borderline dominate in the paint this year for the Illini. He’d have changed our program.

I don’t see X and Carr as a good fit together. Both like to have the ball in their hands a lot and don’t primarily look to score from the perimeter. Trey is that way too, but Trey is an elite athlete whereas Carr is not. So X and Trey can be a pretty good defensive combo, plus occasionally Trey has those games where he looks like a lottery pick.

With that in mind, it’d definitely be nice to have Carr come off the bench for this team. but like someone said X probably never would have been here if Carr stayed

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I really like Marcus Carr...in a dream world, do you think he and Xavier could have coexisted? I realize Xavier probably wouldn't have come here had Marcus stayed, but I think it could have worked well. Could our offense work with two ball handlers out there, with Carr being the lead PG?

Also, been tough to watch Cofi be borderline dominate in the paint this year for the Illini. He’d have changed our program.

He's a really good player. But he is Xavier Johnson.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I understood -- didn't mean to imply that was your meaning. Sorry.

It's so hard to say. Carr isn't a classic distributor lead guard, and of course X is a scoring lead guard.

They are so similar in many respects, right down to Carr and X being scattershot outside shooters. I would lament Carr's loss more if he had a pure jump shot. He's a really good player, but he is X. X is Marcus.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Wise ole SMF said Marcus Carr was an ACC caliber guard. No one believed it.

Do I think he is a super great player? No. But he is a piece. He and Parker Stewart were ACC-level FR but on a good team, they wouldn't have had to play 30 MPG. I like Ryan Murphy but I'd take Parker Stewart over him easy. Had Carr stayed, he probably would have ended up transferring anyway because McGowens would have been playing over him. I'm not so sure McGowens is better.

 

[DT_PITT]

Wise ole SMF said Marcus Carr was an ACC caliber guard. No one believed it.

Do I think he is a super great player? No. But he is a piece. He and Parker Stewart were ACC-level FR but on a good team, they wouldn't have had to play 30 MPG. I like Ryan Murphy but I'd take Parker Stewart over him easy. Had Carr stayed, he probably would have ended up transferring anyway because McGowens would have been playing over him. I'm not so sure McGowens is better.

I think absolutely everyone believed Marcus was an ACC caliber guard.

 

[PittLegends]

Must we have one of these threads each time an ex Pitt player does well ?

Be happy we have Capel and focus on the present.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Must we have one of these threads each time an ex Pitt player does well ?

Be happy we have Capel and focus on the present.

These threads aren't at all a criticism of Capel. Just a discussion of Carr. They can coexist without one shading the other.

 

[FireballZ]

They are so similar in many respects, right down to Carr and X being scattershot outside shooters. I would lament Carr's loss more if he had a pure jump shot. He's a really good player, but he is X. X is Marcus.

I think Carr has a much prettier looking shot. I think he'll eventually be a 35+% 3PT shooter for them, which is huge because he's got some moves in the lane, not just at the hoop like X. He has a nice little floater and fade away that I've seen.

 

[FireballZ]

These threads aren't at all a criticism of Capel. Just a discussion of Carr. They can coexist without one shading the other.

Exactly. And Carr was on tv playing in the ACC/Big10 Challenge, which I always watch. I think Carr was one of the handful of guys that left after Stallings' firing who actually gave quite a bit of thought to staying here at Pitt with Capel too. DT would probably know that best.

That said, I always follow and root for players that transfer from Pitt (except Cam). In other news, I see Kham Davis was granted immediate eligibility at Weber State. He's doing okay. Playing close to 30 minutes a game and averaging 7/8 points. That's the correct level for him....and apparently Pitt really helped in getting him immediately eligible. Makes you scratch your head even more about Pitt not trying the same with Horton, unless they are convinced X is gone after this year and wanted to save that extra year for Horton once he's gone?

 

[Chescat]

Wise ole SMF said Marcus Carr was an ACC caliber guard. No one believed it.

There you again. Many of us knew it and posted as such.
"Wise ole SMF"...hilarious. And that after a few of us came
to your defense on here last night.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I think absolutely everyone believed Marcus was an ACC caliber guard.

Your memory isnt great then. Most people didn't think those 2 were ACC frosh. I defended them to the end. Some warmed up to Stewart but not Carr.

 

[DT_PITT]

Your memory isnt great then. Most people didn't think those 2 were ACC frosh. I defended them to the end. Some warmed up to Stewart but not Carr.

Many didn't think he would be great or a top half ACC guard (I include myself in this ... and perhaps you to as well) but no one was saying he wasn't capable to play in the ACC.

 

[pittchagg]

Exactly. And Carr was on tv playing in the ACC/Big10 Challenge, which I always watch. I think Carr was one of the handful of guys that left after Stallings' firing who actually gave quite a bit of thought to staying here at Pitt with Capel too. DT would probably know that best.

That said, I always follow and root for players that transfer from Pitt (except Cam). In other news, I see Kham Davis was granted immediate eligibility at Weber State. He's doing okay. Playing close to 30 minutes a game and averaging 7/8 points. That's the correct level for him....and apparently Pitt really helped in getting him immediately eligible. Makes you scratch your head even more about Pitt not trying the same with Horton, unless they are convinced X is gone after this year and wanted to save that extra year for Horton once he's gone?

I'm not sure if the two scenarios are really comparable. I think there's a difference in the NCAA's ever-nebulous eye between a "player's former school pushing hard to get that player eligible at his transfer school" and a "player's new transfer school pushing hard to get him eligible at their school." One is much more compelling than the other.

We don't really know to what extent Delaware cooperated or pushed hard for Horton to be eligible at Pitt. There's also a difference between a player transferring to a lower level school (Davis) and a player transferring up to a higher level school (Horton). There was also the coaching change at Pitt that was a compelling factor leading to Davis' transfer, which wasn't the case with Horton.

 

[pittjas]

Exactly. And Carr was on tv playing in the ACC/Big10 Challenge, which I always watch. I think Carr was one of the handful of guys that left after Stallings' firing who actually gave quite a bit of thought to staying here at Pitt with Capel too. DT would probably know that best.

That said, I always follow and root for players that transfer from Pitt (except Cam). In other news, I see Kham Davis was granted immediate eligibility at Weber State. He's doing okay. Playing close to 30 minutes a game and averaging 7/8 points. That's the correct level for him....and apparently Pitt really helped in getting him immediately eligible. Makes you scratch your head even more about Pitt not trying the same with Horton, unless they are convinced X is gone after this year and wanted to save that extra year for Horton once he's gone?

People keep bringing this up regarding Horton but missing the important factor...

The NCAA approved a bunch of waivers this year when the school/coach they left actively supported them getting the waiver... so when the school essentially told them to move on like we did with Kham.

You really think Delaware wanted Horton to leave and would assist Pitt in getting him eligible?

I mean you can argue that Pitt should’ve thrown in a waiver just because that seems to be the thing to do these days but there’s pretty much no chance he would’ve got it.

 

[pittchagg]

People keep bringing this up regarding Horton but missing the important factor...

The NCAA approved a bunch of waivers this year when the school/coach they left actively supported them getting the waiver... so when the school essentially told them to move on like we did with Kham.

You really think Delaware wanted Horton to leave and would assist Pitt in getting him eligible?

I mean you can argue that Pitt should’ve thrown in a waiver just because that seems to be the thing to do these days but there’s pretty much no chance he would’ve got it.

Your last sentence is about where I'm at on it. Could they have applied for a waiver? Sure, I'm sure they have the NCAA's fax number. But I think they (correctly, IMO) believed that Horton's transfer wasn't the type of situation that results in hardship waivers - it has all the trimmings of a pretty classic "under-recruited kid blows up at a mid-major and wants to prove himself at a big school" transfer. Absent any family/personal/coaching change issues where a transfer would benefit him - which there don't appear to be any - I don't see where applying for a waiver would have gotten them anywhere.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Your memory isnt great then. Most people didn't think those 2 were ACC frosh. I defended them to the end. Some warmed up to Stewart but not Carr.

His memory is right
As usual yours is silly and self aggrandizing

nobody doubted Carr could play at this level
Plenty doubted Stewart could - so you’ve got that backward

 

[Chescat]

His memory is right
As usual yours is silly and self aggrandizing

nobody doubted Carr could play at this level
Plenty doubted Stewart could - so you’ve got that backward

BINGO!!

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

His memory is right
As usual yours is silly and self aggrandizing

nobody doubted Carr could play at this level
Plenty doubted Stewart could - so you’ve got that backward

Is anyone really surprise that SMF got something exactly backwards?

 

[thirteenNINE]

Your memory isnt great then. Most people didn't think those 2 were ACC frosh. I defended them to the end. Some warmed up to Stewart but not Carr.

That's a dumb take, even for you.