My nephew plays football
- Thread starter PittCity
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I wonder what the studies would show for players who stopped playing after HS (like 90% of football players). My guess is most brain damage comes from hits you take post-HS
I realize I am in a rural area but the football teams around here could beat the soccer teams in soccer, most of the skilled football players played youth soccer until not able to because of time constraints.
Yeah, that's definitely an avenue that needs to be explored. I wouldn't be surprised if even high school kids have some brain damage, but perhaps it wouldn't have progressed into full scale CTE. I hope not, at any rate.
The thing that everyone else also needs to take into account with CTE is it is just recently being diagnosed efficiently. People look at the old pros and think "my God no". Back then how many did they have a concussion but was not diagnosed and they continued playing? Again apples to oranges thinking little Timmy playing today is the same as say Junior Seau who played after getting his "bell rung" countless times.
There are literally hundreds of thousands of former hs football players from the last 50 years who have no signs of cte. And this includes guys who played in the 70's 80's and 90's who got there bell rung and went right back to playing a few plays later. I think cte for highschool guys is a bit overstated. Now get into major college football(even d2) and I do believe that starts to change, get to the NFL and I think it's pretty much a given that cte is going to happen it's just a matter how bad
basically two tracks for a young man and usually determine what type of man he will become......
track 1....you play football in the fall, you play basketball or wrestle in the winter and you play baseball in the spring...you use summer for rest or work or conditioning...
track 2...you play in the band in the fall, you play soccer during one of their seven seasons per year...you play a lost boy in your school's spring production of "Peter Pan"
SMF's background vocals during "A Pirate's Life" still brings tears to the eyes of those who were in attendance that magical night...
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My son plays baseball also and I did through HS but once your kid plays soccer, you realize how "stupid" baseball is. Now, he likes it, maybe even better than soccer but you stand there and stand there and wait for something to happen. There's very little exercise and its not really a true "team sport."
Playing tackle football before middle school is "for fun" meaning its not going to make the kid a better player and should only be played if the kid likes it. Before middle school, kids should play flag football.
As for your tracks, for elementary kids, soccer HAS to be played, heck, I think it should be required of only for the exercise and to stay in shape. Also, I think football players, especially the fat kids should play soccer in the spring to get in better shape. And maybe I'm old fashioned but I do think all kids should play baseball even though I bash it. Im not sure why, maybe its my sentimentality. Other sports: basketball, wrestling, lacrosse, hockey, etc you can throw in there as well
Yeah, fun times, I doubt anyone does that anymore! Like a 7 on 7 tackle football game with no pads, random kids coming together in a park, drawing up plays in the dirt.
Today, kids don't set up games on their own like we did. I don't have a son, if I did, I'd let him play football if he wanted to.
I have a daughter, who is a senior in high school and plays on the school team, she' s played soccer 10 years, I doubt she's ever played a pickup game outside the many rec, travel and school teams she's played for, kids just don't come together spontaneously and play outside anymore, and we organized the whole thing without cell phones
I agree with this. I've been around high school football all my life and don't know of a single person who I could speculate suffered from CTE. Now, if you're talking NFL, yeah, there have been problems. The % of high school players who go on to D1 and the NFL is extremely small. I played and my sons played and I have no regrets either way.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
I don't have a son but I'd probably be the guy that lets him play but only because I live in Central PA and football here is trash. It's slow and nobody in HS really makes noticeable contact.
I have a few thoughts on the subject since I played a lot of football. For the record, I never played a competitive down until junior high and went on to play D-1 football. I also played some club football well into my forties. I have a good job where I spend a lot of time making important decisions but I suffer deficiencies thanks to the many impacts (some big, but mostly small) I suffered over the years. I have been a patient of Dr. Collins' group and have undergone years of treatments for various "brain" problems.
I think there is some degree of calculated risk we never enjoyed "back then". I loved to play football. As I sit here in pain wondering if I can tolerate another pill, knowing that I'll be struggling for the next four or five months of cold weather, it's easy to wonder if I probably shouldn't have. See, I honestly can't name a body part that wasn't broken or damaged over the years from playing. Things as minor as the ringing in my ears gets worse all the time and things as major as the pain deep in my head is something my doctors are watching. I'm looking at surgery at some point to "fix" my neck. All I ask is to make sure football, and all of the potential downsides, are something you're willing to let your son live with before you let him make that commitment.
I have a few thoughts on the subject since I played a lot of football. For the record, I never played a competitive down until junior high and went on to play D-1 football. I also played some club football well into my forties. I have a good job where I spend a lot of time making important decisions but I suffer deficiencies thanks to the many impacts (some big, but mostly small) I suffered over the years. I have been a patient of Dr. Collins' group and have undergone years of treatments for various "brain" problems.
I think there is some degree of calculated risk we never enjoyed "back then". I loved to play football. As I sit here in pain wondering if I can tolerate another pill, knowing that I'll be struggling for the next four or five months of cold weather, it's easy to wonder if I probably shouldn't have. See, I honestly can't name a body part that wasn't broken or damaged over the years from playing. Things as minor as the ringing in my ears gets worse all the time and things as major as the pain deep in my head is something my doctors are watching. I'm looking at surgery at some point to "fix" my neck. All I ask is to make sure football, and all of the potential downsides, are something you're willing to let your son live with before you let him make that commitment.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
CTE has been documented in recently deceased, young men that only played HS football. Not saying it's common but there is evidence that suggests that every impact, even minor ones, eventually cause problems. It's all new science but there is enough to suggest cause and effect.
WE used to play some real physical tackle backyard tackle football. Normally kids or young adults would come from a wide area. Lots of broken noses, maybe one or two other broken bones but mainly it was just bumps and bruises. I really wonder if the helmets and pads cause more injuries than they prevent. I guess you could look at rugby injuries and make a bit of determination.
But the key is you played at D1 and then continued past that in club football. Had you stopped in High school its unlikely you would have a issue. No question anyone who is going to play at the college level should really sit down and consider the possible consequences. I know 5 guys that played past highschool. 2 have no real issues they played D2 football but didn't play a lot, one played a full year the other 2. 3 others I know played and have some pretty bad health problems. None have anything that seems like CTE at this point. 1 played D1(ohio state) and then for the buffalo bills for a few years- he was reasonably healthy until about 50 and then things started falling apart- both hips replaced and lots of back problems. 1 started 4 years of D2 and has back issues at 29. The other has major knee and back issues(both knees replaced by 35) and played 2 full years of big ten football.
I played hundreds of games of pickup tackle football up until 10th grade. One of the guys was a actually a multi-year major D1 starter. I cant remember 1 injury. When you dont wear helmets, you dont use your head as a weapon. I wouldn't have a problem with my kid playing pickup tackle football as long as I think he knows how to tackle properly.
Right here is the answer. It is pitful that all these pro's do not properly tackle. It is all about the kill shot instead of the proper tackle that keeps everyone safe.
Except plenty of offensive players, including lineman- are damaged.
It’s from collisions.
When I was in high school, I played golf in the fall, wrestled in the winter , and played baseball in the spring. INdid pretty good in school and was President of NHS. I was friends with both the jocks and the kids who could be classified as nerdy. I can tell you that my jock friends were much more willing to accept my nerdy friends than the nerdy friends were willing to accept the jocks. As I look back on it now, it amazes how stuck up the academic kids were as compared to the athletes.
I played in Jr. High and High School, I was one of those kids that where discriminated against for weighing over 135 at age 12, so I was screwed out of a couple years of Pop Warner in favor of tiny, little kids who never played on the high school team with me- I was a FAT KID then, soft and fat, I would not have had the ability to hurt smaller kids just because of my weight-by HS I thoughend up a bit and played.
So between backyard football, and school football, I played maybe 10 years, and 5 with real teams with pads and helmets, after senior year, if I had wanted, I could of played for D3 teams like Geneva, Thiel or Grove City, but I was just tired of it, why go through all that practice and bust my butt for free-no scholarship money, so that was it- I quit real football and played a little flag football for 4 years, basically I have no ailments that I attribute to football now at age 59.
Now at my school, we had a couple dudes that played D1 and NFL, and you could tell, if you where on a team where everyone was like them, yeah, for sure, you'd be getting busted up in practice every freaking day, but on a HS team where only a few are like that, it's no big deal, I actually enjoyed going up against those guys, later I was able to watch them on TV and say, hey I tackled him before. Bottom line, I think playing a few years as a kid, is not likely to hurt you much, unless you have some spinal injury or something.
That wouldn't happen were I live, if the soccer team played soccer vs. the football team, the soccer kids would easily crush them 10-0. The only kids that quit youth soccer for football usually aren't good enough at soccer.
Yeah, look at all these guys who come over from Africa or Australia or somewhere and start playing at 18 years old and make the NFL.
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anon_vmuicqnzlyp3u
Guest
I too played D1 football. I played since i was five yrs old and now that I am in my 50's I can assure you it has taken a toll on my body. 5 knee operations on the same knee can really be painful on certain days. I have had numerous shoulder problems as well as ankle problems.
However, I have not been treated for any brain issues (although some think I should) lol and I believe that it is really over hyped. Dan, I am not saying that your is and I truly hope everything is minor and nothing serious. With that being said, I wouldn't change anything for the world. It was a major learning experience, courage builder and taught me how to face adversity. I clearly advocate playing at an early age and play as long as you can
pittdan77
Athletic Director
I completely understand that the longer you play, the more risk you expose yourself to. But that doesn't diminish the affect that a few years of the game has on a body. Look, I know tons of guys that played at every level. Even Canada. Want to know what they all have in common? Nothing. Some guys go all the way to a pro career with next to no issues. Some guys play HS and suffer greatly their entire life. Luck is a thing. Know a guy that had nothing but a couple of busted fingers and he played 8 years in Arena 1 back in it's heyday. Know another guy that played one year of limited snaps in college and is retired at 48 because he can barely walk and he never did anything athletic since. Just how it goes.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
I don't believe it's overhyped but I really don't have an issue with how you feel. It really does come down to each parent's choice. I really don't know what I'd do if I had another chance. I loved playing but I don't love how it feels now. That's all. But the brain thing is a big deal and football can be enjoyed by young kids without taking a beating. That's all.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
It's so hard to form tackle in a game where everything is moving so quickly. The guys that play in the pros are freaks.
My father in law was the head trainer for an NFL team for over 30 years and is in the Professional Athletic Trainers' Association Hall of Fame. Many years ago he told me that he didin't think young kids should play football. He said parents think it will help their kids play in college and the NFL, but it doesn't and if anything has a negative impact on their chances. His opinion was that kids should play a variety of sports that help their basic athletic skills, like footwork and hand eye coordination and wait for football until they are older.
I understand that completely but these guys don't even attempt to. They lead with their head and try to just collide into instead of drive threw. It would be interesting to see what John Lynch brain looks like, because he came the closest to trackling proper in the NFL the last 15/20 years
That's why when we played tackle with no helmets as kids we didn't spear people with our bare heads, intuitively we knew that would hurt.
It wouldn't happen at any school above maybe a single A level. I could see a small single A school where all the best athletes play football beating that school's soccer team at soccer but that would be because the school is too small to field a soccer team of semi-talented players. For those small schools, you may have a couple talented players, and the rest of the kids are playing just to be involved in some extracurricular activity. I would go so far as to say the Norwin girls soccer team would beat a lot of Single A boys teams bady.
In the OP's scenario, the football kids had played soccer until high school, then stopped, I could see maybe that could happen, but if that's the case, it's really soccer players beating soccer players, because both sides have a similar amount of experience.
I don't know about that. My local school is a large double a school, in fact it was within a couple of boys from being a aa and done of the girls teams are 3a. I can guarantee you the hs football team would win a soccer game against the soccer team. The wrestlers play soccer most practices and many play football I have seen them play soccer and they are really good at it, the local soccer team isn't very good. Football still gets the vast majority of the athletes
High schools near where I live, twice as many boys try out for soccer vs, football, Centennial High cancelled football last season because 14 tried out, 80 for soccer, this year they talked a bunch of kids that failed at soccer to play football, to get the football squad up to about 30 so they can have a team again.
I would only believe that if these football players had been playing soccer since they where in elementary school and then switched to football in high school.
Well the schools I refer to are bigger than single A, perhaps some as big as AAAA, but mostly AA, AAA. As I mentioned before these are rural schools.
You do realize the state of Men's soccer in the US ?
We have a population of 325 million plus and struggle to beat teams like Costa Rica and Panama, whose populations are half the size of New York City. The best male athletes in America, largely, (not in every case) are playing other sports.
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At rural schools where many of the best soccer playing kids quit soccer in middle school to play football, I could see it. Where I live, nobody, or very few of the better soccer players jump to football at any point. Some do, but usually they aren't the better players.
Population means nothing to be honest, if population mattered India or China would be winning the World Cup every year, and if all the best athletes in the USA suddenly concentrated on soccer, I'd be willing to bet serious money that it would still take 50 years for the USA to challenge Brazil, England, Argentina, Germany or Spain countries like that if ever.
Actually USA Soccer is pretty damn good. Ranked #22 right now. Considering the attention paid to the sport the last 100 years, we should be happy and proud that the USA is doing so great....
https://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/ranking-table/men/index.html
Even the MLS is a SUPER HIGH QUALITY domestic league, considering it's only 20 years old, Americans are IDIOTS if they think it should be better after the country had a D-1 pro league like 15 of the 100 years prior to MLS.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2691880-ranking-the-most-entertaining-leagues-in-world-football
https://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/ranking-table/men/index.html
Even the MLS is a SUPER HIGH QUALITY domestic league, considering it's only 20 years old, Americans are IDIOTS if they think it should be better after the country had a D-1 pro league like 15 of the 100 years prior to MLS.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2691880-ranking-the-most-entertaining-leagues-in-world-football
you live in soccer utopia, which is an anomaly in the USA. As Mark Madden stated....until the hottest cheerleader starts banging the star of the soccer team instead of the star of the football team, high school football will always get the cream of the crop.
It happens here. Sure, it's an anomaly, but it's true here. Actually, I was at a football game recently, the cheerleaders are all out of shape, chunky, fat chicks, all the hot chicks that are toned and in shape are on the soccer and lacrosse teams, the cheerleaders are just the fatties who can't play a sport. So the hottest cheerleaders are generally way less good looking by far than the 20 girls on the soccer team. So maybe the star QB should date a soccer player?
Was up to my kids. I played all thru school. The first helmet I wore in 8th grade was an old fashion suspension helmet that had to have been made about 1955, and refurbished in 1970. When I was done, I was wearing state of the art (for that time) water filled helmets. Neither of my boys played HS ball. Both played ice hockey and made it to the Pengiun Cup finals in 2004. Both played baseball. With all the head stuff going on I have no problem with them not playing. One of my heroes in HS was Mike Webster. A good and decent man who played many a game when I'm sure he should not have. Basically ended up a walking veg estranged from his family living on the streets with a gold HOF jacket. You look at how early these pro fb players die and you have to wonder the worth. Up until about five years ago I would jump ip and down for every big hit, now I sort of cringe and wait to make sure everyone gets up. Personal choice. I would never take that away from anyone. If the sport dies it will do so on it's own.
