Myth of better OL recruiting, why Pitt won

[President Stache]

Keep reading from PSU excuse mongers that Pitt and Chryst concentrated on OLine instead of skill players, like PSU did (and sanctions limiting them ), thus is why we kicked their arses saturday. Well... wanted to have a look and see if that is right, so I did. Rivals rankings of listed depth chart. Pitt only listed 1,2 team... if Pitt listed 3 team, our composite would be lower.

Left Tackle
70 Brendan Mahon (6-4, 320, Sr../Jr.) 4 stars
73 Paris Palmer (6-7, 300, Sr./Sr.) 4 stars
71 Will Fries (6-6, 295, Fr../Fr.) 4 stars

Left Guard
52 Ryan Bates (6-4, 305, So./Fr.) 4 stars
62 Michal Menet (6-4, 296, Fr./Fr.) 4 Stars

Center
72 Brian Gaia (6-3, 295, Gr./Sr.) 3 stars
55 Wendy Laurent (6-2, 297, Gr./Sr.) 2 stars (DT)

Right Guard
53 Derek Dowrey (6-3, 323, Gr./Sr.) 2 star - (converted DT)
66 Connor McGovern (6-5, 310, Fr./Fr.) 4 Star
57 Steven Gonzalez (6-4, 334, So./Fr.) 3 Stars

Right Tackle
59 Andrew Nelson (6-6, 306, Sr./Jr.) 3 Stars
77 Chasz Wright (6-7, 343, Jr./So.) 3 stars
60 Noah Beh (6-6, 300, Jr./So.) 4 stars

3.4 average stars

LT 69 Bisnowaty, Adam RS SR 4 stars
60 Reese, Aaron RS JR 3 Stars
LG 53 Johnson, Dorian SR 5 stars
72 Baker, Carson RS JR 2 stars
OC 63 Officer, Alex RS JR 3 stars
76 Dintino, Connor RS SO 3 stars (DT)
RG 78 Bookser, Alex RS SO 62 4 stars
Guy, John RS SR 1 star
RT 70 O'Neill, Brian RS SO 3 stars
55 Jones-Smith, Jaryd RS JR 3 stars

Ave. 3.1 Stars



Total Rivals ranking for whole class
2011 Pitt 63 (21 recruits) PSU 37 (17 recruits)
2012 Pitt 49 (16 recruits) PSU 55 (19 recruits)
2013 Pitt 35 (26 recruits) PSU 42 (16 recruits)
2014 Pitt 45 (23 recruits) PSU 25 (25 recruits)
2015 Pitt 70 (15 recruits) PSU 15 (25 recruits)
2016 Pitt 31 (24 recruits) PSU 23 (20 recruits)

Total for roster (not including 2011) --- Pitt 46 PSU 32.

Also of note, 2012, Russel Shell and Desean Rippy, our top 2 recruits transferred out after a year.

PSU has by far a higher ranking. Even if you ONLY consider upper classmen (jr-rssr) PSU holds a +2.3 edge

There are no excuses. I know Franklin does a fine job teaching excuses for everything, but holds no water here. PSU is deeper on the line, and higher rated.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

Pres,

First off, excellent work here! Is it possible to show class sizes by year as well? I think you know where I am going with this.
9NC

 

[President Stache]

Pres,

First off, excellent work here! Is it possible to show class sizes by year as well? I think you know where I am going with this.
9NC

Just added that!

 

[OriginalEther]

It's a rather lame excuse either way.
I mean, if it's truly better to recruit linemen over ballplayers, recruit linemen.
Duh!

 

[medixman]

I said Pitt had the better o-line because of Chryst recruiting and Obrians lack of it.You had a 5 star and two 4 stars starting Saturday all Chryst right?Psu had 1 four star that O'Brian recruited starting.The other 4 star recruits are Franklins and will be the leaders on the o-line for the next couple of years.Next year should have 5 four stars starting on it.This is why I think Psu offense will be way better the next two years.You have to admit Chryst knew how to evaluate o-line talent?

 

[9nationalchampionships]

The theory is not who is playing but rather the caliber and number of recruits to choose from. Franklin is always complaining about something and this list above shows that PSU could have a good OL as well based on recruiting. I do think PSU is in trouble with Franklin and his contract.

I said Pitt had the better o-line because of Chryst recruiting and Obrians lack of it.You had a 5 star and two 4 stars starting Saturday all Chryst right?Psu had 1 four star that O'Brian recruited starting.The other 4 star recruits are Franklins and will be the leaders on the o-line for the next couple of years.Next year should have 5 four stars starting on it.This is why I think Psu offense will be way better the next two years.You have to admit Chryst knew how to evaluate o-line talent?

 

[joeydavid]

Hopefully Franklin will survive 3 more seasons but I'm not optimistic.

The theory is not who is playing but rather the caliber and number of recruits to choose from. Franklin is always complaining about something and this list above shows that PSU could have a good OL as well based on recruiting. I do think PSU is in trouble with Franklin and his contract.

 

[medixman]

9 I'm not blaming O'Brian for PSU losing this year because of his recruiting.He had to make a choice between recruiting lineman or skill players because of lot of reasons and he chose to go after skill players.And put olinemen on the back burner and for a simple reason.Joe left him 4 future NFL starting olinemen his only two seasons there.Maybe this is why Hack had such a good freshman year,plus throw in a All Pro wide receiver on that team.Obrian hated to recruit and in my opinion he knew his stay was going to be short in HV and didn't give the future there must care when he recruited!9,as you know unless your elite it takes time to develop on the o-line.Frankln has done really well the last two years getting "potential" future big time olinemen.Only time will tell if they developed.

 

[Jpripper88]

I said Pitt had the better o-line because of Chryst recruiting and Obrians lack of it.You had a 5 star and two 4 stars starting Saturday all Chryst right?Psu had 1 four star that O'Brian recruited starting.The other 4 star recruits are Franklins and will be the leaders on the o-line for the next couple of years.Next year should have 5 four stars starting on it.This is why I think Psu offense will be way better the next two years.You have to admit Chryst knew how to evaluate o-line talent?

Where is the evaluation, if you are just going off of stars? You guys are chock full of 4 stars on the OL depth chart.

The years don't match up because O'Brien really only had 1 full (2012) class and Chryst only had 2013 and 2014, so this isn't perfect, but...
2012
Pitt - 2 OL recruits: 0 5 stars, 1 4 stars, 0 3 stars, 1 2 star.
PSU - 2 OL recruits: 0 5 stars, 0 4 stars, 2 3 stars, 0 2 stars.

2013
Pitt - 5 OL recruits: 1 5 star, 0 4 stars, 3 3 stars, 1 2 star.
PSU - 3 OL recruits: 0 5 stars, 1 4 star, 1 3 star, 1 2 star.

2014
Pitt - 2 OL recruits: 0 5 stars, 2 4 stars, 0 3 stars, 0 2 stars
PSU - 3 OL recruits: 0 5 stars, 0 4 stars, 3 3 star, 0 2 stars.

So Pitt took 9 (1 more) OL commitments and had a 3.33 star average.
PSU took 8 (1 less) OL commitments and had a 3 star average.

The difference seems pretty negligible to me. Any difference is probably due to the sanctions from displaying a lack of institutional control. Literally 1 player swings the results.

 

[medixman]

88: why are you throwing sanctions at me???I don't use sanctions as an excuse for your line being better,I blame O'Brian for a number of reasons.You guys don't give Chryst enough credit in my opinion for your o-line being good.

 

[Jpripper88]

88: why are you throwing sanctions at me???I don't use sanctions as an excuse for your line being better,I blame O'Brian for a number of reasons.You guys don't give Chryst enough credit in my opinion for your o-line being good.

I was showing the difference is negligible and sanctions that limited the number of recruits probably accounts for the slight difference in number and the overall stars.

 

[PittMan2003]

88: why are you throwing sanctions at me???I don't use sanctions as an excuse for your line being better,I blame O'Brian for a number of reasons.You guys don't give Chryst enough credit in my opinion for your o-line being good.

I do think u r right that chyryst deserves credit. He did a nice job getting oline guys. he did a good job for us overall. But narduzzi is a big upgrade.

 

[doubleAA's]

88: why are you throwing sanctions at me???I don't use sanctions as an excuse for your line being better,I blame O'Brian for a number of reasons.You guys don't give Chryst enough credit in my opinion for your o-line being good.

Ok... basically the ONLY difference is Dorian Johnson who came to us as a fall back. It wasn't because Chryst was here. Our other 2 4 stars were biz and bookser, both pittsburgh hs kids. Chryst didn't recruit well... he got 3 local kids that certainly would have came if Narduzzi or Wannstedt were coach too.

Now Chryst authored a very good run attack, not debating that... but seems Canada may be even better there.. as witnessed to the near quarter mile of rushing yards we got off your team.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

Yes, Coach Chryst recruited the OL very well. As far as BOB not recruiting OL that well, I am only looking at Pres' analysis above as reference. Franklin can flat out recruit but his coaching on game day speaks for itself.

9 I'm not blaming O'Brian for PSU losing this year because of his recruiting.He had to make a choice between recruiting lineman or skill players because of lot of reasons and he chose to go after skill players.And put olinemen on the back burner and for a simple reason.Joe left him 4 future NFL starting olinemen his only two seasons there.Maybe this is why Hack had such a good freshman year,plus throw in a All Pro wide receiver on that team.Obrian hated to recruit and in my opinion he knew his stay was going to be short in HV and didn't give the future there must care when he recruited!9,as you know unless your elite it takes time to develop on the o-line.Frankln has done really well the last two years getting "potential" future big time olinemen.Only time will tell if they developed.

 

[TD_6082]

But notice class and experience.

Yes, Coach Chryst recruited the OL very well. As far as BOB not recruiting OL that well, I am only looking at Pres' analysis above as reference. Franklin can flat out recruit but his coaching on game day speaks for itself.

Its funny to read all the 'Franklin sucks as a gameday coach' posts. Pitt was a 4 or 4.5 point favorite Saturday and won by 3.

 

[PittMan2003]

But notice class and experience.


Its funny to read all the 'Franklin sucks as a gameday coach' posts. Pitt was a 4 or 4.5 point favorite Saturday and won by 3.

Pitt dominated ped u and let up and ped u made a miraculous comeback. Franklin got punked saturday and was forunate pitt almost pitted the game or he loses by 30. He made a fool out of himself before, during, and after the game. I love him as a pitt fan!

 

[President Stache]

But notice class a
abnd experience.


Its funny to read all the 'Franklin sucks as a gameday coach' posts. Pitt was a 4 or 4.5 point favorite Saturday and won by 3.

absolutely! I hope he sucks that bad the next 3 meetings. He was thoroughly embarrassed. Only cultist like you feel the moral victories.

hmmmm... I remember you complaining about moral victories after the Iowa game last year. Had quite a heated discusson. I guess when it is Pitt and not your team you change your mind

 

[OriginalEther]

Ha. It's good to have you back, TD

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Its funny to read all the 'Franklin sucks as a gameday coach' posts. Pitt was a 4 or 4.5 point favorite Saturday and won by 3.

You know what that means, don't you? That your hero still hasn't won a game as an underdog at Penn State. And it's not for a lack of opportunities.

 

[TD_6082]

He's not my hero. He's also not close to as bad as some people here want to make him out to be either.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

He's not my hero.

You say that, but the way that you rush to his defense at every perceived slight tells a different story.

 

[Franb]

Pitt dominated ped u and let up and ped u made a miraculous comeback. Franklin got punked saturday and was forunate pitt almost pitted the game or he loses by 30. He made a fool out of himself before, during, and after the game. I love him as a pitt fan!

What was "miraculous" about the comeback? Pitt did not play very well in the 2nd half, compared to the 1st half - whether that was because Pitt became conservative or PSU changed some things, I don't know. What I do know is that PSU was in good position to tie or take the lead in the last 2 minutes. That was not a dominating performance, although using Franklin's definition of dominate, maybe it was.

 

[TD_6082]

Posters here act like he's the worst coach in America. That point of view pretty much minimizes Pitt's win on Saturday.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Posters here act like he's the worst coach in America. That point of view pretty much minimizes Pitt's win on Saturday.

You act like he's one of the best coaches in America. That point of view pretty much maximizes Pitt's win on Saturday.

Or at least it would if your opinion were anywhere close to the actual facts.

 

[PittMan2003]

Posters here act like he's the worst coach in America. That point of view pretty much minimizes Pitt's win on Saturday.

You make a good point. We beat a mediocre team with a mediocre coach. Not much to get that excited about except it shuts you guys up for a year.

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

Keep reading from PSU excuse mongers that Pitt and Chryst concentrated on OLine instead of skill players, like PSU did (and sanctions limiting them ), thus is why we kicked their arses saturday. Well... wanted to have a look and see if that is right, so I did. Rivals rankings of listed depth chart. Pitt only listed 1,2 team... if Pitt listed 3 team, our composite would be lower.

Left Tackle
70 Brendan Mahon (6-4, 320, Sr../Jr.) 4 stars
73 Paris Palmer (6-7, 300, Sr./Sr.) 4 stars
71 Will Fries (6-6, 295, Fr../Fr.) 4 stars

Left Guard
52 Ryan Bates (6-4, 305, So./Fr.) 4 stars
62 Michal Menet (6-4, 296, Fr./Fr.) 4 Stars

Center
72 Brian Gaia (6-3, 295, Gr./Sr.) 3 stars
55 Wendy Laurent (6-2, 297, Gr./Sr.) 2 stars (DT)

Right Guard
53 Derek Dowrey (6-3, 323, Gr./Sr.) 2 star - (converted DT)
66 Connor McGovern (6-5, 310, Fr./Fr.) 4 Star
57 Steven Gonzalez (6-4, 334, So./Fr.) 3 Stars

Right Tackle
59 Andrew Nelson (6-6, 306, Sr./Jr.) 3 Stars
77 Chasz Wright (6-7, 343, Jr./So.) 3 stars
60 Noah Beh (6-6, 300, Jr./So.) 4 stars

3.4 average stars

LT 69 Bisnowaty, Adam RS SR 4 stars
60 Reese, Aaron RS JR 3 Stars
LG 53 Johnson, Dorian SR 5 stars
72 Baker, Carson RS JR 2 stars
OC 63 Officer, Alex RS JR 3 stars
76 Dintino, Connor RS SO 3 stars (DT)
RG 78 Bookser, Alex RS SO 62 4 stars
Guy, John RS SR 1 star
RT 70 O'Neill, Brian RS SO 3 stars
55 Jones-Smith, Jaryd RS JR 3 stars

Ave. 3.1 Stars



Total Rivals ranking for whole class
2011 Pitt 63 (21 recruits) PSU 37 (17 recruits)
2012 Pitt 49 (16 recruits) PSU 55 (19 recruits)
2013 Pitt 35 (26 recruits) PSU 42 (16 recruits)
2014 Pitt 45 (23 recruits) PSU 25 (25 recruits)
2015 Pitt 70 (15 recruits) PSU 15 (25 recruits)
2016 Pitt 31 (24 recruits) PSU 23 (20 recruits)

Total for roster (not including 2011) --- Pitt 46 PSU 32.

Also of note, 2012, Russel Shell and Desean Rippy, our top 2 recruits transferred out after a year.

PSU has by far a higher ranking. Even if you ONLY consider upper classmen (jr-rssr) PSU holds a +2.3 edge

There are no excuses. I know Franklin does a fine job teaching excuses for everything, but holds no water here. PSU is deeper on the line, and higher rated.

It is great Lair Posters use Links and Facts to back up their Posts on the Lair, it drives the CD's nuts and won't respond on BWI. Great posting!

I am trying to figure out how many Pitt and PSU Players Composite Rosters and how PSU Juniors will go into the Draft?

Great Fact check, and kind of undercuts the Lions belief that Franklin's 4th year will be better than these last 3 years.

Thank you!

 

[TD_6082]

You act like he's one of the best coaches in America. That point of view pretty much maximizes Pitt's win on Saturday.

Or at least it would if your opinion were anywhere close to the actual facts.

Given the situation he took over at PSU, I think he needs more time to define him as a coach. Very few coaches in America would have the kind of success he did at Vandy. Vandy is back to being Vandy. How many SEC games have they won since Franklin left?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

How many teams with a winning record did he beat at Vandy?

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

Given the situation he took over at PSU, I think he needs more time to define him as a coach. Very few coaches in America would have the kind of success he did at Vandy. Vandy is back to being Vandy. How many SEC games have they won since Franklin left?

I agree, Franklin is a good Rebuilding Coach for Mid-Level School like Wake, Duke, Vandy, Temple, UCincy, Kansas, Iowa State because he can recruit but he has a ceiling when going up against Top Coaches in Top Programs is my view now!

What coaches did Franklin Beat at Vandy, if you know? That could change my mind?

Franklin is Great Guy and would make a great Politician, Conference Commissioner, and AD, but he can't stay up with Top Coaches in the Top Level of the Big Ten, SEC, ACC, and Big-12. Foge Fazio could not either!

 

[doubleAA's]

Posters here act like he's the worst coach in America. That point of view pretty much minimizes Pitt's win on Saturday.

I still can't believe you are here posting on a Pitt site instead of preparing for the temple game

 

[Chaos]

I said Pitt had the better o-line because of Chryst recruiting and Obrians lack of it.You had a 5 star and two 4 stars starting Saturday all Chryst right?Psu had 1 four star that O'Brian recruited starting.The other 4 star recruits are Franklins and will be the leaders on the o-line for the next couple of years.Next year should have 5 four stars starting on it.This is why I think Psu offense will be way better the next two years.You have to admit Chryst knew how to evaluate o-line talent?

He did. I think we should offer any OL that Wisconsin offers, and hire Hueber as one of those extra coaches like Saban has at Alabama.

 

[TD_6082]

I agree, Franklin is a good Rebuilding Coach for Mid-Level School like Wake, Duke, Vandy, Temple, UCincy, Kansas, Iowa State because he can recruit but he has a ceiling when going up against Top Coaches in Top Programs is my view now!

What coaches did Franklin Beat at Vandy, if you know? That could change my mind?

Franklin is Great Guy and would make a great Politician, Conference Commissioner, and AD, but he can't stay up with Top Coaches in the Top Level of the Big Ten, SEC, ACC, and Big-12. Foge Fazio could not either!

Yes. Most coaches do. That's why the entire SEC West has coaches on the hot seat trying to catch Nick Saban. I don't think Franklin will get PSU to the level of Michigan or tOSU as long as Harbaugh & Meyer are there.

Do you think Narduzzi will stay up with FSU and Jimbo Fisher? Should we expect him to? If so, what is your time table?

 

[drunkinoakland]

Posters here act like he's the worst coach in America. That point of view pretty much minimizes Pitt's win on Saturday.

Exactly, you can't crap all over Franklin and the Nits and then proclaim Saturday a great win. I'm happy Pitt won. I like our staff. I think we can get a lot better. I also think the second half was embarrassing and almost heartbreaking.

We had every opportunity to roll them and didnt. I guess we also had every opportunity to blow it and on the bright side we didnt.

 

[Saboteur]

88: why are you throwing sanctions at me???I don't use sanctions as an excuse for your line being better,I blame O'Brian for a number of reasons.You guys don't give Chryst enough credit in my opinion for your o-line being good.

I concur. The rankings are what they are but not all 3 star players are equal and not all star rankings are valid.
PC did this part of his job here better than any other aspect.
Just MHO.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

So your logic is that because he beat the vegas spread he is better? As a team that plays PSU I am all for keeping Franklin there a long time.

But notice class and experience.


Its funny to read all the 'Franklin sucks as a gameday coach' posts. Pitt was a 4 or 4.5 point favorite Saturday and won by 3.

 

[President Stache]

I still can't believe you are here posting on a Pitt site instead of preparing for the temple game

hah

 

[MajorMajors]

I get the impression that PSU fans think that PSU will be much better next season and that Pitt doesn't have a chance in that game. I don't think they realize that Pitt will also be better next season. The defense will be better with Hendrix back at DE and Zeise back at LB. Plus the freshmen recruits - with their added speed - will begin to be in the 2-deep.

The offense won't suffer so much from Peterman graduating because his role was pretty limited this game. I think Pitt has replacements for the other seniors and there is talent - though untested - at QB.

PSU is going to have a fight on their hands next season too.

Go Pitt.

 

[President Stache]

Penn state will certainly be favored next year. They are home, and we will no longer have most our Oline, Conner or Peterman. But you are correct, our defense will be much better next year. Also, we will still have the horses in the backfield

 

[JohnnyGossamer]

I get the impression that PSU fans think that PSU will be much better next season and that Pitt doesn't have a chance in that game. I don't think they realize that Pitt will also be better next season. The defense will be better with Hendrix back at DE and Zeise back at LB. Plus the freshmen recruits - with their added speed - will begin to be in the 2-deep.

The offense won't suffer so much from Peterman graduating because his role was pretty limited this game. I think Pitt has replacements for the other seniors and there is talent - though untested - at QB.

PSU is going to have a fight on their hands next season too.

Go Pitt.

I'm of the opinion that both teams will be better next season. Pitt will have a much bigger question mark at QB but will be more athletic with more depth on defense. And, essentially return the bulk of the offense. The entire RB stable sans Conner return. The entire WR corps san Ford - a crops that NEEDS to mature this season - returns and should be much improved. I'm very much expecting guys like Henderson and Matthews to take big strides over the next year. And, that doesn't mention all the other young guy that are currently RS FR, RS SO or currently RS. Clark steps in for Orndorff. Parrish is back at TE/HB and Aston back at FB too. This also assumes Pitt returns in offense coordinator so there isn't a steep learning curve for the new guys. And, yeah, Officer, Jones, O'Neil and Bookser return on the OL as well.

 

[pittdan77]

Actually, the difference in OL play between the two schools is position coaching. Hueber did a fantastic job and when Chryst left, John Peterson came in and just made things better.

The OL story at Pitt has a lot to do with these two.