Narduzzi or Ferentz
- Thread starter sunshinedynomite
- Start date
Over the coach that hasnt proven he can win with his own players? I dont see why anyone would want that...
After three seasons of being a head coach Kirk Ferentz was 12-21 playing against terrible competition.
Over the coach that hasnt proven he can win with his own players? I dont see why anyone would want that...
Actually, the B1G had 4 top 11 teams and 7 (of 11, including Iowa) in the top 25 in his first season. He took his team from 3-8 to 11-2 (8-0) and conference champions by his 4th season. Then he went 10-3 and 10-2 the next two years.
I don't think Ferentz is a fantastic coach, but I highly doubt Narduzzi's 1st 4 years (definitely not 1st 6 years) are better than Ferentz's 1st 4 years. Ferentz started off in a much worse place AND after 4 years he brought the program to the top of the conference. I guess we shall see if we have 11+ wins and a conference championship or at least title appearance this year.
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Ferentz probably has a higher floor than Narduzzi. You know what you're getting, and can bank on that every year. But you also know what Ferentz's ceiling is, and it isn't that high. Maybe some of that is Iowa itself.
With Narduzzi, we have no idea what his ceiling is yet. So it might end up being that Ferentz's ceiling is even higher than Narduzzi's. But, maybe you roll with the unknown over the known.
With Narduzzi, we have no idea what his ceiling is yet. So it might end up being that Ferentz's ceiling is even higher than Narduzzi's. But, maybe you roll with the unknown over the known.
i think Ferentz is a terrific coach and any shortcomings falls on the fact that he coaches at a school that is in one of the top 3 most boring states in the country. Iowa folks, freakin Iowa.. to have a program like Iowa relevant and living in the land of the top 25 is an incredible accomplishment.
no offense to duzzer who I love but he's no where close to being in the same league as Ferentz. maybe someday but not now, not close.
Wow, that is actually a really good view, I agree completely.
I seriously like both those coaches. Ferentz maybe years ago woulda been one of the top choices for any team, but I think that time has passed, he is 63 years old next week.
The upside of being in Iowa is that there seems to be an abundance of quality corn-fed OL-men that are tripping over each other to play for him.
Narduzzi is 10 years younger so there is that. But Captain Kirk is the better coach.
He's had three 11+ win seasons in a period where every Pitt coach combined has had zero. He's had three BCS bowls to our one and won one to our zero. He's had two outright conference titles while we had one wacky one. He's finished in the final AP top 10 five times in the same period we have zero times. He had a 12 win season in 2015; we haven't since 1976. They were ranked as high as #3 in the country that year. We haven't sniffed that post Marino.
He's had three 11+ win seasons in a period where every Pitt coach combined has had zero. He's had three BCS bowls to our one and won one to our zero. He's had two outright conference titles while we had one wacky one. He's finished in the final AP top 10 five times in the same period we have zero times. He had a 12 win season in 2015; we haven't since 1976. They were ranked as high as #3 in the country that year. We haven't sniffed that post Marino.
It's also not like he's being forced to play "Iowa" athletes against southern schools. Hell, we are at more of a disadvantage than Ferentz is when you think of it like that. We are in a more northern location, being forced to play in a largely southern dominated conference.
Iowa isn't a hot bed of talent. But either is the rest of the Big Ten. The state of Indiana isn't exactly pumping out the 4* recruits. So his recruiting disadvantage is largely mitigated thanks to the rest of the conference.
I don’t care how overpaid or mediocre he is. If he could bring us NY6 bowls that he’s gotten Iowa to, I’d sign up for that in a heartbeat. I’d sign up to get those from anyone as long as we aren’t selling our souls in the process.
He was an inch away from the CFB Playoffs 3 seasons ago... Narduzzi hasnt even sniffed a divisional title.
Interesting discussion. Not realistic but a good exercise in college football critical thinking topics.
I think Upper St. Clair Kirk is a better HC than Narduzzi---at least right now.
It is hard to win consistently at PITT. The same is true at Iowa as well maybe even more so. He has helped the Hawks put together nice runs every so often including the magical 12-0 regular season in 2015.
I would have taken KF as a replacement for Harris, DW, Toad and PC and even take him now despite being a bit longer in the tooth.
This is all not to say that PN can't be more successful at PITT than he has been so far but straight up I go with Ferentz.
I think Upper St. Clair Kirk is a better HC than Narduzzi---at least right now.
It is hard to win consistently at PITT. The same is true at Iowa as well maybe even more so. He has helped the Hawks put together nice runs every so often including the magical 12-0 regular season in 2015.
I would have taken KF as a replacement for Harris, DW, Toad and PC and even take him now despite being a bit longer in the tooth.
This is all not to say that PN can't be more successful at PITT than he has been so far but straight up I go with Ferentz.
How many Big Ten or ACC teams would choose Ferentz over Narduzzi, if they were in a situation that called for such a decision?
It's likely that it would be nearly unanimous for Kirk.
This was not a fair comparison at all. KF's recruiting may well be subpar, but given his geographic limits he has done extremely well coaching up that talent that he has managed to bring in. This guy in recent years has beaten some pretty good teams. One thing he has going for him is a huge home-field advantage, particularly at night, which is something that Narduzzi does not have.
It's likely that it would be nearly unanimous for Kirk.
This was not a fair comparison at all. KF's recruiting may well be subpar, but given his geographic limits he has done extremely well coaching up that talent that he has managed to bring in. This guy in recent years has beaten some pretty good teams. One thing he has going for him is a huge home-field advantage, particularly at night, which is something that Narduzzi does not have.
Iowa is basically Pitt with coaching stability. So you can either take ferentz who at least has proven over a longer period of time he’ll win some big games every handful of years and usually have a competitive team. Or narduzzi, still relatively unproven, may eventually build an even better program, or maybe he won’t.
Whisky and Nebraska are way ahead of Iowa in recruiting and I'm certain that is why he's not breaking out. Great football coach. Not so great recruiter.
Not really. In 2017:
Wisconsin was 37th in the 247 Team Talent Ranking with a 84.63 average recruit ranking on the team.
Iowa was 49th with a 84.11 average recruit ranking on the team.
The only difference between the two of them was Wisconsin was playing near scholarship capacity, whereas Iowa was about 10 ships below, hence the edge to Wisconsin in ranking.
So they basically recruit at the exact same level. Which is to be expected. The states are close in talent.
Nebraska was a little bit better at an 85 average recruit ranking. But that's not insurmountable, and that's not coming from the state of Nebraska.
The issue here is whether Iowa is at a competitive disadvantage compared to Nebraska due to the talent in the states. And the answer is "No," the two states are about the same. Nebraska is able to go out and recruit from far away a little bit better. But one could argue that's got more to do with Ferentz than Iowa itself. There's no inherent reason why a recruit in California would be more wiling to go to the cornfields of Lincoln, Nebraska compared to the cornfields of Iowa City. Both programs are similarly situated in that regard.
You're right but in the last four years, Whisky and Nebraska have both signed more 4 and 5 star athletes. That's where I was coming from with that.
Ference currently looks better because of countless wins vs a soft ooc schedule and when any Big10 power plays at Kinnick, it’s on prime time TV. The expectations he has at Iowa are also lower than what we give coaches here. He would’ve been run out of town 3 times over if he was coach at Pitt.
Judgement on Narduzzi is still up in the air but he is 10 years younger, and took over dumpster fire here at Pitt. I am not sure how any coach Pitt could’ve got at the time PN was hired, could do more than a couple wins here or there, up to this point.
Judgement on Narduzzi is still up in the air but he is 10 years younger, and took over dumpster fire here at Pitt. I am not sure how any coach Pitt could’ve got at the time PN was hired, could do more than a couple wins here or there, up to this point.
Are you calling Iowa's OOC schedule soft because they played us? His expectations are lower than we have at Pitt? If HCPN does what Kirk Ferentz did at Iowa in years 4-6, he would get a lifetime contract, much like Ferentz (essentially) has. Right now, it doesn't seem likely we will EVER see that success at Pitt under HCPN, even though we at least still have a little hope for it.
Don’t really agree that Narduzzi took over a dumpster fire, was much worse what Chryst inherited.
Not a huge fan of Ferentz, but his teams are generally steady if unspectacular and they’ve crafted a great homefield advantage.
Narduzzi still very much up in the air, hopefully he exceeds Vegas’ 5 win projection this year or he may be coaching for his job in 2019-2020.
This point is just stupid. No he didn't. He was given an NFL Oline, WR, RB, solid dline and LBs. He was given a shitty secondary, that's it. It was a far thing from a dumpster fire.
Sorry dumpster fire got you all worked up.
Nard came in when Pitt had no stability at all in the athletic department or with the football program in the 10 years prior. He was left a 6-6 team.
But we can agree to disagree.
I agree with this. You aren't going to have any truly bad seasons at Iowa, but a lot of 7-8 win seasons with a chance at 10+ wins every 5-6 seasons.
Since 2013, Iowa is 43-23 (1-4 in bowl games). Pitt is 34-30 (1-3 in bowl games) over the same time period. According to USA Today, Ferentz is the 13th highest paid coach. Narduzzi comes in at No. 61.
No, I'm comparing his P5 experience at a similar program because it would be idiotic to compare to him working at Maine, which he left for NFL and P5 assistant work because those are bigger jobs than Maine HC.
Using USA Today rankings for Pitt is a waste of time. It isn't even close to accurate.
That would make sense of HCPN had lower level head coaching experience as well. He didn't.
If PN ends up with a KF type of resume after 15 years it would be disappointing. I don't see the attraction to KF- it's a weird situation. Iowa overpaid for a mediocre coach to keep their program mediocre. Maybe that's Iowa's upside. If you look at Iowa's schedule, they play no-one out of conference while playing in the weakest P5 division and still have mediocre results. They would be Wisconsin if they won more but they don't.
If PN ends up with a KF type of resume after 15 years it would be disappointing. I don't see the attraction to KF- it's a weird situation. Iowa overpaid for a mediocre coach to keep their program mediocre. Maybe that's Iowa's upside. If you look at Iowa's schedule, they play no-one out of conference while playing in the weakest P5 division and still have mediocre results. They would be Wisconsin if they won more but they don't.
Not sure why you would be disappointed. If Narduzzi has the same results after the same number of years as Ferentz, he'll be the winningest Pitt coach ever. KF has won 11 games twice, and 12 games once. Remind me the last time a Pitt coach did that. KF has been to the Orange Bowl twice and the Rose Bowl once. Ferentz has won more games than any coach in Pitt history by a fair margin.
Yeah, it would be very disappointing if Narduzzi only did as well as Ferentz has done.
If Narduzzi has the same career here as Ferentz has had at Iowa, he'll have a statue dedicated to him and a building named after him.
Yeah, it would be very disappointing if Narduzzi only did as well as Ferentz has done.
If Narduzzi has the same career here as Ferentz has had at Iowa, he'll have a statue dedicated to him and a building named after him.
Ferentz has advantages: a large, practically on campus stadium in Iowa City; no competition for entertainment dollars; a fan base that travels to away games in large numbers; a consistent winning tradition established by Hayden Frye; game time atmosphere that is 100% college; a more seasoned staff, unlike Narduzzi's revolving door of firees and has beens;
Agree with this in the sense HCPN actually inhereted a fair amount of talent.
It's too bad Ferentz didn't end up here. Even though he's not a Pitt grad, he was a grad assistant at Pitt when he started out and an Upper St. Clair grad. In retrospect he might have been the perfect choice.
Could you imaging Pitt hiring a 63 year old coach with that history now at the salary Ferenz gets? Haha, the guy posting under all those names would really be all over Pitt then.
This is a ridiculous discussion.
By the way, Narduzzi was NATIONAL assistant coach of the year when we hired him, he was likely the top target out there that year. He inherited one of the worst defenses in the history of Pitt football
Oh, the legendary, Kirk Frentz who has won only 56% of his games as head coach. That's below what Dave Wannstedt won in college. Where is Dave's statue going in your mind?
KF's underwhelming 56% win rate includes typically padding 3 games OOC wins and playing in the easiest P5 division. You are talking about 3 good years against largely bad competition over a 20 year head coaching career.
[QUOTEpittdoc57, post: 2366968, member: 52096"]Not sure why you would be disappointed. If Narduzzi has the same results after the same number of years as Ferentz, he'll be the winningest Pitt coach ever. KF has won 11 games twice, and 12 games once. Remind me the last time a Pitt coach did that. KF has been to the Orange Bowl twice and the Rose Bowl once. Ferentz has won more games than any coach in Pitt history by a fair margin.
Yeah, it would be very disappointing if Narduzzi only did as well as Ferentz has done.
If Narduzzi has the same career here as Ferentz has had at Iowa, he'll have a statue dedicated to him and a building named after him.[/QUOTE]
KF's underwhelming 56% win rate includes typically padding 3 games OOC wins and playing in the easiest P5 division. You are talking about 3 good years against largely bad competition over a 20 year head coaching career.
[QUOTEpittdoc57, post: 2366968, member: 52096"]Not sure why you would be disappointed. If Narduzzi has the same results after the same number of years as Ferentz, he'll be the winningest Pitt coach ever. KF has won 11 games twice, and 12 games once. Remind me the last time a Pitt coach did that. KF has been to the Orange Bowl twice and the Rose Bowl once. Ferentz has won more games than any coach in Pitt history by a fair margin.
Yeah, it would be very disappointing if Narduzzi only did as well as Ferentz has done.
If Narduzzi has the same career here as Ferentz has had at Iowa, he'll have a statue dedicated to him and a building named after him.[/QUOTE]
Wikipedia is your friend. Ferentz's winning percentage at Iowa is .596. You can count his first 3 years at Maine if you like, and it makes you feel better. All other data points I made still stand.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirk_Ferentz
It's ludicrous that you seem to insist that his wins are padded with cupcakes, when Pitt spent so many years in the Big East. Ferentz is a 4-time Big Ten coach of the year. He's won a number of other Coach of the Year awards, including the 2002 AP COY. Let me know when Pat gets a single vote for one of those.
Whatever. There's not a single AD in the world of college football who at this point would pick Narduzzi over Ferentz. Why you feel the need to hammer the guy is beyond me, but it says more about you than it does about him. The guy is a solid coach, who grew up in Pittsburgh and played in the WPIAL. He was tailor-made for Pitt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirk_Ferentz
It's ludicrous that you seem to insist that his wins are padded with cupcakes, when Pitt spent so many years in the Big East. Ferentz is a 4-time Big Ten coach of the year. He's won a number of other Coach of the Year awards, including the 2002 AP COY. Let me know when Pat gets a single vote for one of those.
Whatever. There's not a single AD in the world of college football who at this point would pick Narduzzi over Ferentz. Why you feel the need to hammer the guy is beyond me, but it says more about you than it does about him. The guy is a solid coach, who grew up in Pittsburgh and played in the WPIAL. He was tailor-made for Pitt.
OLB’ers were very weak, and there was very little depth on DL. Price was the only one that was consistently good up front. The defense overall had a lot of holes and very little depth.
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