North Carolina recruiting

[pitt90seven]

He has always been a great recruiter. The knock on him at Texas was he didn't always win commensurate with his talent.

he's recruiting at too high a level, too fast. like hugh freeze. you don't just jump multiple levels one year. no way. mack has been in NC before so it's not apples to apples. but still - any time a school massively outperforms their history, we know it isn't on the up and up.

You hit on a very common misconception about VPI being an easy drive to the Tidewater area.

I lived in Roanoke twice (45 min. east of Blacksburg) and there are no easy ways to get to Norfolk and the surrounding areas.

Knoxville, Tn is closer to Blacksburg than Norfolk, Va is.

anyone who wants to takes the trip on 64 b/w richmond and tidewater knows that this is a massively horrific drive. every single time i've been on that highway there's been a massive and horrible accident.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

Great recruiters can get a kid to commit because they know how to sell the school, coaching staff and education.
UNC had several coaches since Mac Brown’s first stint and never recruited like this. He hired a bunch of young hungry coaches who can sell and relate to the kids they are recruiting.

Another example is Fran Brown at Rutgers. He has recruited at least 5-7 kids in Rutgers Current recruiting class that has multiple offers from the big boys. Yes, he got them to commit to Rutgers. The worst P5 team the last 4 years. Who they couldn’t beat out StoonyBrook, Old Dominion, and other bottom dwellers for recruits under ash.

Same with Hafley when he coached at Pitt. He was getting kids from New Jersey with a ton of big time offers to come to Pitt.

The coach from Kentucky who’s name escapes me. He goes into Ohio and gets multiple 4 stars every year. Why? Because he is a great recruiter.

Pitt should of hired Fran Brown when Matt Rhule left Baylor. Imagine him on our staff with Partridge, Beatty and Collins. Instead friggen Rutgers is getting rewarded because they hired a elite recruiter.

Vince Marrow - Kentucky
His daughter just signed on to play for Pitt Softball. We should go after him as a coach.

 

[cashisking884]

Vince Marrow - Kentucky
His daughter just signed on to play for Pitt Softball. We should go after him as a coach.

MSU and Kentucky just had an insane bidding war for him since both know Ohio is the key to any success they hope to achieve.

We’d have to give him a huge offer and probably offer him OC or co-OC position.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

Has anyone seen KY facilities recently. They might have the nicest in our region minus osu.

 

[Hardslider21]

Do people really think UNC’s checkbook is thicker than the SEC’s?
The entire reason why the term “bagman” became a household name amongst college football fans is due to a piece on SEC recruiting.
UNC did not outspend Georgia. Just stop.

You don’t necessarily have to out spend them as you said. You just need to pay for the key or true difference makers and the rest will come. In some fairness to NC, 94% of these kids are local kids. Let’s not overlook their past either, nor have they been a setting the recruiting world on fire the past 10 years.

I’m just saying go ask most CF fans around the country N.C. out of no where is challenging Clemson & Alabama & USC for second spot behind O$U a school known for payments, and they will yes they most likely cheating. Doesn’t mean that they are but it acts like duck and quacks like one.

Time will tell but either way, it makes beating them harder for Pitt which was the point of the post.

 

[lilspainishflea]

Just curious, where is Pitt's ideal "sweet spot" for recruiting? Is it staying home and cleaning up all the Pittsburgh (I think y'all call it WPIAL?) area talent? Is it getting talent from all parts of PA, including the Philly metro? The UGA back D'Andre Smith comes to mind as a good Philly recruit. Or do y'all see yourself as maybe branching out to Ohio consistently for linemen and Florida or Atlanta for speed positions? And... just for fun, is there a talent-rich high school or county in PA that Pitt just cannot break in to, for whatever reason? For North Carolina, it's Cleveland County and specifically Shelby H.S. Tons of examples going back to the 90s of players there who went to Florida or Clemson or anywhere but UNC. Current Clemson LB Justin Foster and VT LB Dax Hollifield are both from Shelby.

We've never recruited Eastern PA very consistently. Most of our core of players are now from Western PA, OH, NJ, and now the DMV, with a few guys here and there from other places (for example FL and now GA).

I don't think there's any particular place in PA that Pitt is locked out of. Our biggest issue is that the WPIAL has fewer kids and fewer high end kids than even 10 years ago and is down dramatically in both respects from 20-30 years ago. Now, instead of 10-15 high major type kids available, there are about 5. And we battle Ohio State, Michigan, Notre Dame, Penn State, and maybe even Alabama, for those 5. Given the declining participation and talent numbers from across the Commonwealth, it's just not realistic for Pitt to fill it's entire class in-state.

 

[cashisking884]

I’m just saying go ask most CF fans around the country N.C. out of no where is challenging Clemson & Alabama & USC for second spot behind O$U a school known for payments, and they will yes they most likely cheating. Doesn’t mean that they are but it acts like duck and quacks like one.

Go ask most college football how much Bama is spending is spending on recruits.

This is like with the Hugh Freeze-Mississippi example.
It’s not that Ole Miss was buying recruits. Sure they were. But so was everybody else in the SEC. Leo Lewis testified he got money from at least THREE different SEC schools. And he didn’t end up at Ole Miss.

Can I believe UNC boosters are paying recruits? Sure. Do I believe they paid more than GEORGIA for the number 1 cornerback in the country???? Helllllllll no. And anybody that believes that is insane. At best they paid some amount that put them on a somewhat even playing field with UGA. And then the recruiters took over from there.

The SEC is the same conference that pays players just to visit. Players *they know* they have no chance of signing. Because the conference throws so much money around, you have to pay a door price. And then that kid will talk to other recruits, and down the road you might actually land the recruit you are paying to visit. They actually pay today in hopes of laying the foundation for next year’s recruits. UNC did not buy any of these recruits away from that conference. Them boys are on a completely different level than UNC.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

Go ask most college football how much Bama is spending is spending on recruits.

This is like with the Hugh Freeze-Mississippi example.
It’s not that Ole Miss was buying recruits. Sure they were. But so was everybody else in the SEC. Leo Lewis testified he got money from at least THREE different SEC schools. And he didn’t end up at Ole Miss.

Can I believe UNC boosters are paying recruits? Sure. Do I believe they paid more than GEORGIA for the number 1 cornerback in the country???? Helllllllll no. And anybody that believes that is insane. At best they paid some amount that put them on a somewhat even playing field with UGA. And then the recruiters took over from there.

The SEC is the same conference that pays players just to visit. Players *they know* they have no chance of signing. Because the conference throws so much money around, you have to pay a door price. And then that kid will talk to other recruits, and down the road you might actually land the recruit you are paying to visit. They actually pay today in hopes of laying the foundation for next year’s recruits. UNC did not buy any of these recruits away from that conference. Them boys are on a completely different level than UNC.

I have a player currently playing in the SEC, he was a 4 star UA all American. He was offered by Georgia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Florida, Auburn, and South Carolina. He had 30+ offers from every single Power 5 conference. He could've gone anywhere.

Never once was he offered $$$ to visit or to sign. Is he getting money now? Probably not. Will he in the future? Possibly, that $$$ is way easier to cover up than it is to get kids to sign or visit. There are way too many watchdogs and way too much coaching turnover.

I've had other scholarship players too and no money was ever thrown around to sign or to visit.

Does it mean it doesn't happen? No it doesn't. I know guys in college who took money while in school and a fewer took $$ to sign. But, the overwhelming majority didn't.

It's more uncommon than you think. Many players will flat out lie saying they took money to create some sort of self-worth.

I had the former Alabama's RB coach in my office several times. We talked about stuff like that because there was an SEC school who was notorious about it offering money. He along with many of his rivals said Saban doesn't get dirty like you think.

There are also college coaches who get very jealous and scapegoat when they lose a player to another school.

If UNC can drop cash to land bball players they can absolutely do it at the same level any other power 5 school can. Especially when a booster knows the commitment to bring Mack in is.

If you want to really dig deep and find some illegal wrongdoings in recruiting, check out some of the mega power HS programs that are typically private. Check out IMG, Mater Dei, Saint Frances, St. John's, etc... These are the real pimps selling pipe dreams...

 

[cashisking884]

I have a player currently playing in the SEC, he was a 4 star UA all American. He was offered by Georgia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Florida, Auburn, and South Carolina. He had 30+ offers from every single Power 5 conference. He could've gone anywhere.

Never once was he offered $$$ to visit or to sign. Is he getting money now? Probably not. Will he in the future? Possibly, that $$$ is way easier to cover up than it is to get kids to sign or visit. There are way too many watchdogs and way too much coaching turnover.

I've had other scholarship players too and no money was ever thrown around to sign or to visit.

Does it mean it doesn't happen? No it doesn't. I know guys in college who took money while in school and a fewer took $$ to sign. But, the overwhelming majority didn't.

It's more uncommon than you think. Many players will flat out lie saying they took money to create some sort of self-worth.

I had the former Alabama's RB coach in my office several times. We talked about stuff like that because there was an SEC school who was notorious about it offering money. He along with many of his rivals said Saban doesn't get dirty like you think.

There are also college coaches who get very jealous and scapegoat when they lose a player to another school.

If UNC can drop cash to land bball players they can absolutely do it at the same level any other power 5 school can. Especially when a booster knows the commitment to bring Mack in is.

If you want to really dig deep and find some illegal wrongdoings in recruiting, check out some of the mega power HS programs that are typically private. Check out IMG, Mater Dei, Saint Frances, St. John's, etc... These are the real pimps selling pipe dreams...

If you say so.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

If you say so.

I can only go by what I've experienced over the past 15 years.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

First 5-star of the Mack Brown 2.0 Era now on board. I guess the checks are clearing.

 

[pittdan77]

First 5-star of the Mack Brown 2.0 Era now on board. I guess the checks are clearing.

Time to ramp up those seminar courses.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Time to ramp up those seminar courses.

What are these "courses" of which you speak?

 

[pittdan77]

What are these "courses" of which you speak?

Ha ha.

 

[Usuallyunusual-partdeux]

First 5-star of the Mack Brown 2.0 Era now on board. I guess the checks are clearing.

This is how Penn State climbed out of the mud so quickly.. recruiting can cover up poor coaching and scheme. Should be no excuses not to win now right? Sure hope there is a season because most people forget before Hamlin got ejected we were kicking their teeth in relatively speaking.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

This is how Penn State climbed out of the mud so quickly.. recruiting can cover up poor coaching and scheme. Should be no excuses not to win now right? Sure hope there is a season because most people forget before Hamlin got ejected we were kicking their teeth in relatively speaking.

Recruiting does indeed trump all. CFB is all about Jimmy's and Joe's.

 

[cashisking884]

Mack’s coaching issues are still an unknown. Last year UNC was 30th in the S&P+ at the end of the regulation season, and still lost 6 games. There are number of possible reasons for that. Bad luck. Youth at key situations. Or a coach that just finds a way to f*ck it up. After his end of Texas run, the last option isn’t off the table.

But I’m not sure anybody but Miami is going to have enough fire power to overcome the kind of talent Mack is putting together, even with his poor coaching. It’s not like he will be going against a bunch of elite field generals in the ACC Coastal.

 

[the_insider_]

They're a brand name, but I wouldn't say they're a blue blood or brand name for football. They have an elite basketball and baseball program.

I guess I have my biased/blinders on, but I think Pitt is every bit as good of a football program as UNC. Not sure what UNC has to offer for football that Pitt doesn't. They have a much more fertile state that they're cleaning up in which helps for sure. But other than that idk.

They play in a 50k seat stadium, not 100k.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

This tired refrain if everyone cheating , my cosch is just a great recruiter
Has been around forever

 

[lilspainishflea]

They're a brand name, but I wouldn't say they're a blue blood or brand name for football. They have an elite basketball and baseball program.

I guess I have my biased/blinders on, but I think Pitt is every bit as good of a football program as UNC. Not sure what UNC has to offer for football that Pitt doesn't. They have a much more fertile state that they're cleaning up in which helps for sure. But other than that idk.

They play in a 50k seat stadium, not 100k.

UNC's advantages over Pitt are that: 1) its local area has more talent and it's far closer to the rest of the South so they have better regional recruiting; and 2) it's the state flagship school rather than a state school that's strongly tied to one city. Those might only be 2 things but they're significant.

I often feel like PSU is the default college choice for non-Pittsburgh kids. I definitely grew up having to justify my preference for Pitt growing up in SE PA. We have to move kids off of PSU, PSU just has to keep them. IMO, that's the same with UNC. NCSU has the area right around Fayetteville and UNC has pretty much everything else. Wake and Duke are tertiary.

 

[RaleighPittFan]

NCSU has the area right around Fayetteville and UNC has pretty much everything else. Wake and Duke are tertiary.

Are you confusing Fayetteville with Raleigh?

Either way, UNC and NCSU both recruit the state on NC very well.

NCSU has more kids from the state on NC on their roster than UNC does.

https://goheels.com/sports/football/roster

https://gopack.com/sports/football/roster

 

[Usuallyunusual-partdeux]

UNC's advantages over Pitt are that: 1) its local area has more talent and it's far closer to the rest of the South so they have better regional recruiting; and 2) it's the state flagship school rather than a state school that's strongly tied to one city. Those might only be 2 things but they're significant.

I often feel like PSU is the default college choice for non-Pittsburgh kids. I definitely grew up having to justify my preference for Pitt growing up in SE PA. We have to move kids off of PSU, PSU just has to keep them. IMO, that's the same with UNC. NCSU has the area right around Fayetteville and UNC has pretty much everything else. Wake and Duke are tertiary.

I'm glad you brought up the other schools in the state because I'm now curious to see if they are still getting their fair share of local talent or if UNC has the whole state in a headlock this year. Usually those other schools get a piece of the local prospect pie.

 

[cashisking884]

They're a brand name, but I wouldn't say they're a blue blood or brand name for football. They have an elite basketball and baseball program.

I guess I have my biased/blinders on, but I think Pitt is every bit as good of a football program as UNC. Not sure what UNC has to offer for football that Pitt doesn't. They have a much more fertile state that they're cleaning up in which helps for sure. But other than that idk.

They play in a 50k seat stadium, not 100k.

lol @ other than that.
“Other than the ability to bring in top 10 recruiting classes, what separates them from the majority of college football” is a hell of a question.

 

[lilspainishflea]

Are you confusing Fayetteville with Raleigh?

Either way, UNC and NCSU both recruit the state on NC very well.

NCSU has more kids from the state on NC on their roster than UNC does.

https://goheels.com/sports/football/roster

https://gopack.com/sports/football/roster

Yes, sort of. I deployed from Ft. Bragg so I remembered Fayetteville and Raleigh being closer. Anyway I kind of meant NCST had that pocket around Raleigh and Fayetteville and UNC was primary in the rest.

NC State might have more players on the roster from North Carolina than UNC, but those could include walk-ons and lower ranked guys. UNC's players from North Carolina are better, especially recently.

2021

4 stars from NC: UNC (10); NCSU (1)
3 stars from NC: UNC (3); NCSU (6)​

2020

4 stars from NC: UNC (6); NCSU (2)
3 stars from NC: UNC (8); NCSU (5)​

2019

4 stars from NC: UNC (3); NCSU (4)
3 stars from NC: UNC (5); NCSU (12)​

2018

4 stars from NC: UNC (2); NCSU (3)
3 stars from NC: UNC (3); NCSU (5)
​

When UNC is going 2-9, the Wolfpack barely outrecruits them in state. That's why I think UNC's baseline in state perception is just higher.

 

[lilspainishflea]

I'm glad you brought up the other schools in the state because I'm now curious to see if they are still getting their fair share of local talent or if UNC has the whole state in a headlock this year. Usually those other schools get a piece of the local prospect pie.

See my post above. NCSU is still getting a few guys, but it's not really close. Even when UNC was going 2-9 in the late days of Fedora, NCSU basically only fought them to a draw in-state.

 

[cashisking884]

See my post above. NCSU is still getting a few guys, but it's not really close. Even when UNC was going 2-9 in the late days of Fedora, NCSU basically only fought them to a draw in-state.

NC State had a little in state bump like two recruiting classes ago I believe. Other than that they are pretty average.

NC as a state just isn’t going to feed two top tier programs. Not enough talent. One has to monopolize the state to have any chance.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Yes, sort of. I deployed from Ft. Bragg so I remembered Fayetteville and Raleigh being closer. Anyway I kind of meant NCST had that pocket around Raleigh and Fayetteville and UNC was primary in the rest.

NC State might have more players on the roster from North Carolina than UNC, but those could include walk-ons and lower ranked guys. UNC's players from North Carolina are better, especially recently.

2021

4 stars from NC: UNC (10); NCSU (1)
3 stars from NC: UNC (3); NCSU (6)​

2020

4 stars from NC: UNC (6); NCSU (2)
3 stars from NC: UNC (8); NCSU (5)​

2019

4 stars from NC: UNC (3); NCSU (4)
3 stars from NC: UNC (5); NCSU (12)​

2018

4 stars from NC: UNC (2); NCSU (3)
3 stars from NC: UNC (3); NCSU (5)
​

When UNC is going 2-9, the Wolfpack barely outrecruits them in state. That's why I think UNC's baseline in state perception is just higher.

Fayetteville is more ecu adjacent
Raleigh is about 1.5 -2 hours away same as chapel hill and duke down i-40

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Actually, even if it was an accident, @lilspainishflea was right when he said Fayetteville. A lot of Eastern NC's farming and agriculture communities within a 30-minute radius of Fayetteville are big, big NC State areas. Other than that... not so much. Carolina fans are pretty dominant in the central and Western part of the state.

You wouldn't know it, but NCSU is actually a much, much bigger school than Carolina. They just suck at sports.

 

[coolbreeze20772]

he's recruiting at too high a level, too fast. like hugh freeze. you don't just jump multiple levels one year. no way. mack has been in NC before so it's not apples to apples. but still - any time a school massively outperforms their history, we know it isn't on the up and up.



anyone who wants to takes the trip on 64 b/w richmond and tidewater knows that this is a massively horrific drive. every single time i've been on that highway there's been a massive and horrible accident.

No truer words have ever been spoken! I hate 64 on that stretch...

 

[Black_Man_Panther]

Does unc now require college athletes to be able to read and write?

Yeah... where's the outrage? This crap has been going on forever. Four years of playing sports, no education to speak of, taking advantage of these brothers and yet these institutions find the time to put out their statements on equality and all that garbage. No one says anything. Not a peep. Where's the protest?

 

[cashisking884]

Anybody see that BC just flipped a MD 4* from UF? Their highest commit ever.

I’m telling you; that’s how you recruit. Focus on areas you have a chance to maybe pull a 4* from (for BC that’s going to be the Mid-Atlantic). And get elite recruiters plugged into the area (Abdul-Rahim).

Meanwhile UF is coming off of two back to back 10 win, NY6 game seasons. Some respected preseason talking heads are predicting them to make the playoffs, and yet, their recruiting class is falling apart because Mullens lack of recruiting is catching up with him, and his on the field success and the UF brand can’t overcome his personality.