That part isn't that simple. You don't need as many employees in that scenario. Then the other problem is, if you say they should just get into another field (like computer programming for example), those other fields only need a certain amount of employees.
OT; Amazon Again
- Thread starter bubba31
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That part isn't that simple. You don't need as many employees in that scenario. Then the other problem is, if you say they should just get into another field (like computer programming for example), those other fields only need a certain amount of employees.
There's always a shakeout at the bottom skill level so make sure you're not there!
When automation takes place its never a one for one replacement but the people who are motivated and retrain as automation programers, maintenance, automation operators, set-up people, down stream packaging handling, etc all do better at the end of the day!
Its a step up for many and yes the less motivated/lazy get left behind!
But its always been that way. The world has automated alot and most people find a way to make a living!
I can always trip up a liberal by asking them this question: Do Corporations and businesses exist to hire people?
Answer: No - They exist to operate in the free market, build, and grow a business and make a profit. If they need people to accomplish that they hire the appropriate number!
So when businesses automate they're doing that to grow their business, make a profit not to hire people.
The Chinese communist government interferes with free market principles and sets up government run businesses that dont make money, aren't automated, just to keep the billions of Chinese occupied.
Automation in the past wasn't a huge problem because the economy expanded elsewhere.
I think it becomes pretty different once A.I. and advanced robotics merge. At some point most jobs go away and we're either living in a Bladerunner dystopia or a Star Trek utopia depending how we play our cards.
I think it becomes pretty different once A.I. and advanced robotics merge. At some point most jobs go away and we're either living in a Bladerunner dystopia or a Star Trek utopia depending how we play our cards.
I can't wait! It should be fun for us " go getters" who will nail down all the good jobs.
Of course we'll have to fence ourselves off from the rest of you!
Actually the economy is expanding and will continue to expand in most areas manufacturing, services, transportation, tech, financials, media etc.
Jobs will be lost as others are created to support automated activities.
New industries will be created just like they were in past technology booms and new services will be required to support the technology!
Lay off the drugs, its not good for you, stay shape so you can nail down one of those sweet new jobs, and we need all the Pitt fans that we can get!
I'm not going to waste more time on this. If you don't see the difference between a pre and post artificial intelligence economy, we don't have much room to start a discussion.
The major flaw with your explanation is that the US government interferes every bit as much as those other governments. You don't think Tesla is getting government subsidizes/benefits? Amazon,Walmart, GE, they all do.
Please. No economist will claim some won’t be hurt by automation - or any other disruptive technology. And no, it is never advantageous to be staring over late in a career.
Of course it is corporate welfare. It may be justifiable, but make no mistake they are getting funded by tax payers. The real concern for me is to make sure Pittsburgh avoids giving so much away that we lose by winning
we don't seem to be giving away as much as others. The NJ team is promising BILLIONS in tax breaks, not MILLIONS but BILLIONS. all a moot point, we can promise all the free primanti Bros sammiches we want, they aren't coming here..
Peduto and Wolf don't want to say a number in public but I think they're talking about a billion or so in tax incentives plus giving Amazon land.
The only city I know of who has said no incentives up front was Toronto.s
New Jersey isn't going to get it no matter their 8? billion dollar offer. My guess is Denver, Dallas, or Atlanta.
The only city I know of who has said no incentives up front was Toronto.s
New Jersey isn't going to get it no matter their 8? billion dollar offer. My guess is Denver, Dallas, or Atlanta.
The article in the original post can have the exact opposite effect as what was assumed. When I was in GSPIA, I was reading all kinds of journal articles for my classes that were trying to flip the affordability argument on its head. It can be a very negative indicator. Pittsburgh is a bit different than Detroit and Cleveland though. Yet, the city, region and commonwealth all have very serious problems that make the Amazon show almost impossible. In fact, the folks I work with at The Allegheny Conference are quietly pretty pessimistic behind the scenes but even making the short list could lead to some positive development.
Personally, I think the region is ripe for international investment in several sectors if some of the proposed tax reform goes through.
Personally, I think the region is ripe for international investment in several sectors if some of the proposed tax reform goes through.
Correct. I would also note that both LA and NYC are going to go full bore for Amazon and both mayors are looking at presidential politics in the near future. This is going to be like the Olympics. Lots of dirty pool is going to be played behind closed doors and lots of political pressure.
There are literally thousands of physical labor jobs that go unfilled every day. The problem is that many members of this generation believe said jobs are beneath them.
Amazon forcing those businesses to be better. That's what they are doing and it's a good thing for all involved. If they can't figure it out; they need to close up shop.
Actually it is the government pays people not to work and there is also a huge drug problem.
They’re closer to closing up shop actually...which is sad. The margin on retail is not good and you can only cut cost so much at the level they’re at.
Only to the extent of some federal tax " loopholes", a few agriculture and dairy subsidies and maybe some property tax benefits.
Countries like China and Russia plus others have state ( government) run companies and industries, with no competition, they're monopolies, with rigged currency!
None of that happens in the US.
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robots are taking over
just look at all the people using self checkout at giant eagle, why pay humans to be a cashier?
james cameron saw it coming way back in the 80's, humans are their own worst enemy
just look at all the people using self checkout at giant eagle, why pay humans to be a cashier?
james cameron saw it coming way back in the 80's, humans are their own worst enemy
Self checkouts are some of the biggest shrink areas in a retail environment. I wouldn’t be suprised if they were all gone in the next 5 years.
Creative destruction is a good thing not sad. If you can't figure out what your customers want- it's time to do something else.
Aldi's is a perfect example of building a better model.
Aldi's is a perfect example of building a better model.
Agreed. So...why should they get tax breaks again? This ought to be good.
The U.S. public debt to GDP ratio is over 75%: The external debt to GDP is over 99%.
China is just over 17% and 8%.
Which financial model would you rather have?
China is just over 17% and 8%.
Which financial model would you rather have?
China doesnt have the social costs welfare, social security, medicare, on our scale like the US does. They only educate an elite segment of their population while we educate everyone!
Their motto is healtcare for none or just the highly educated elite Chinese.
China has state run businesses that intentionally lose money to keep the billions working in manual jobs with no automation. China only automates its strategic industries where the elite Chinese work.
China manipilates its currency so they can show whatever financial rations they want to.
China doesn't have a profit driven free market economy so all costs are lower relative to countries who work with the free market capitalism economic model! Only the elite educated Chinese have a future in China.
The US highly leveraged free market model is the best economic model in the world!
GDP has been struggling under "The Obama" growing between 1%- 2%.
Under Trump - Make America Great Again GDP is growing in the 3% range which didnt happen one time under "The Obama."
Future GDP affter Trump rolled back anti business regulations put in place by "The Obama" should grow4-5% and we'll have a real economy!
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4-5% GDP growth? Please tell me what legitimate economist is making that prediction? The CBO projects GDP growth at roughly 2% for the next decade, while the Blue Chip projection is 2.2% over the same time. Since 1973 (long before "The Obama" and his "job killing regulations" took office) there has never been a 10-year period that has average 4% GDP growth. Even in the tech boom in the 1990's, the average was 3.5%.
As for the 3% the economy has been growing, that has only been for two quarters in 2017. Under "The Obama", the economy grew at 4% in the fourth quarter of 2013 and over 4% for two quarters (2nd and 3rd) in 2014. As you note, things eventually came back down to earth when you look at the average over his term. Let's see how things shake out over a period of 4 years before we make grand declarations based on two quarters.
Finally, I'd remind you that it was Trump who said "Amazon is doing great damage to tax paying retailers. Towns, cities and states throughout the U.S. are being hurt". He later called Amazon a "no-tax monopoly". Those are his exact tweets. So please, spare me the liberal, capitalist-hating crap. Trump campaigned on bringing back those low-skilled, blue collar jobs which have gone by the wayside with automation. He's living in that fantasy world as much as Bernie Sanders is.
Finally, just to be clear, I agree with you on automation. It is inevitable. Society moves forward, you either keep up or get left behind. It is on people to make sure they have the skills to not be rendered obsolete. Where I think you miss the point is in regards to people learning a trade (plumbing, carpenter, tile setter, electrician). I know those jobs can be boom and bust with the economy, like many jobs. But skilled blue collar labor is the way to go.
As for the 3% the economy has been growing, that has only been for two quarters in 2017. Under "The Obama", the economy grew at 4% in the fourth quarter of 2013 and over 4% for two quarters (2nd and 3rd) in 2014. As you note, things eventually came back down to earth when you look at the average over his term. Let's see how things shake out over a period of 4 years before we make grand declarations based on two quarters.
Finally, I'd remind you that it was Trump who said "Amazon is doing great damage to tax paying retailers. Towns, cities and states throughout the U.S. are being hurt". He later called Amazon a "no-tax monopoly". Those are his exact tweets. So please, spare me the liberal, capitalist-hating crap. Trump campaigned on bringing back those low-skilled, blue collar jobs which have gone by the wayside with automation. He's living in that fantasy world as much as Bernie Sanders is.
Finally, just to be clear, I agree with you on automation. It is inevitable. Society moves forward, you either keep up or get left behind. It is on people to make sure they have the skills to not be rendered obsolete. Where I think you miss the point is in regards to people learning a trade (plumbing, carpenter, tile setter, electrician). I know those jobs can be boom and bust with the economy, like many jobs. But skilled blue collar labor is the way to go.
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Rooney will get a piece of the pie if Amazon chooses Pgh.. One more ring for Rottenberger and they'll be given Grant Street, too.
Pay attention to aldi’s. They’ve already started to raise their prices. I think they’ll slowly fade away over a couple years.
Lidl is the new grocery store coming to town to watch out for.
going into aldi's annoys me. I hate shopping so if I do it, which I have to, I don't want to do it twice. I cant get everything I need at aldis so I still have to lug my ass to shop-n-save anyways. im lazy yeah so saving 58 cents on bananas isn't worth it.
throw in fact I never bring my own bags so I throw the crap in my trunk and the whole damn system kills me.
For those of you who dont realize that Amazon has lost money for a long time!
This is a recent headline on Amazon. Actually the company has made a small profit for the last few quarters but showed poor financial ratio results!
It is in it for the long haul unless it get derailed by labor regulators who are looking into Amazon employment and pay practises.
Amazon: Nearly 20 Years In Business And It Still Doesn't Make Money, But Investors Don't Seem To Care
This is a recent headline on Amazon. Actually the company has made a small profit for the last few quarters but showed poor financial ratio results!
It is in it for the long haul unless it get derailed by labor regulators who are looking into Amazon employment and pay practises.
Amazon: Nearly 20 Years In Business And It Still Doesn't Make Money, But Investors Don't Seem To Care
I can’t believe you are that naive. Our goc’t interferes like crazy into the private sector. That is why companies hire lobbyists. They want to make sure the system is rigged in their favor.
Amazon doesn't need to make a profit now, they're seizing market share. The banks and railroads colluded to do the same monopolistic practices in the 1870s+ until people eventually hated them so much we almost had a revolution ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Railroad_Strike_of_1877 ) and then later in the progressive era started to break up the big trusts.
Ultimately there is a problem with the e-economy that didn't exist as much in the brick and mortar days, at least post trust busting period: the way you generally become successful online is by cornering the market. Eventually there is one company with a majority of the market share in search engines (google); one with a majority in ride sharing (uber); one with a majority in b&b/house renting (air bnb); one with 43% of all online retail shares trying to become a majority (amazon).
My brother-in-law works for Audible, which is the Amazon company for audio books, which has well over 90% market share in the audio book industry. His job is basically to research their "competitors" and then to decide which ones are real enough to buy out. Then they buy them out, often making the founders of those companies a big cash offer they feel like they can't refuse, and their near monopoly continues.
The traditional economy generally didn't work that way. There were dozens of audio book companies when it was books on tape. There were five or six big hotel chains in addition to the mom and pops. Even in the most mega-corporate world of all, fast food, there were always several different chains to choose from and thousands of individual franchise owners.
Even if you don't think these e-commerce companies are an anti-trust issue (obviously I do), at the bare minimum, shouldn't it give you pause about giving them big tax breaks that their competitors don't have? Why should the government be in charge of picking winners and losers in the business world, if you don't trust government generally? It's bizarre to me that people who would probably otherwise hate Bill Peduto, Tom Wolf, and Rich Fitzgerald now want to provide them political coverage to make a huge move.
If you don't see the problems here, check out Adam Smith,
The interest of the dealers [referring to stock owners, manufacturers, and merchants], however, in any particular branch of trade or manufacture, is always in some respects different from, and even opposite to, that of the public. To widen the market and to narrow the competition, is always the interest of the dealers. To widen the market may frequently be agreeable enough to the interest of the public; but to narrow the competition must always be against it, and can serve only to enable the dealers, by raising their profits above what they naturally would be, to levy, for their own benefit, and absurd tax upon the rest of their fellow-citizens. (Wealth of Nations)
Ultimately there is a problem with the e-economy that didn't exist as much in the brick and mortar days, at least post trust busting period: the way you generally become successful online is by cornering the market. Eventually there is one company with a majority of the market share in search engines (google); one with a majority in ride sharing (uber); one with a majority in b&b/house renting (air bnb); one with 43% of all online retail shares trying to become a majority (amazon).
My brother-in-law works for Audible, which is the Amazon company for audio books, which has well over 90% market share in the audio book industry. His job is basically to research their "competitors" and then to decide which ones are real enough to buy out. Then they buy them out, often making the founders of those companies a big cash offer they feel like they can't refuse, and their near monopoly continues.
The traditional economy generally didn't work that way. There were dozens of audio book companies when it was books on tape. There were five or six big hotel chains in addition to the mom and pops. Even in the most mega-corporate world of all, fast food, there were always several different chains to choose from and thousands of individual franchise owners.
Even if you don't think these e-commerce companies are an anti-trust issue (obviously I do), at the bare minimum, shouldn't it give you pause about giving them big tax breaks that their competitors don't have? Why should the government be in charge of picking winners and losers in the business world, if you don't trust government generally? It's bizarre to me that people who would probably otherwise hate Bill Peduto, Tom Wolf, and Rich Fitzgerald now want to provide them political coverage to make a huge move.
If you don't see the problems here, check out Adam Smith,
The interest of the dealers [referring to stock owners, manufacturers, and merchants], however, in any particular branch of trade or manufacture, is always in some respects different from, and even opposite to, that of the public. To widen the market and to narrow the competition, is always the interest of the dealers. To widen the market may frequently be agreeable enough to the interest of the public; but to narrow the competition must always be against it, and can serve only to enable the dealers, by raising their profits above what they naturally would be, to levy, for their own benefit, and absurd tax upon the rest of their fellow-citizens. (Wealth of Nations)
pittdan77
Athletic Director
I haven't been past there in a while but how is that Volkswagen plant doing that they built out towards Greensburg?
I’m not so sure the changes will be that dramatic. Most ‘AI’ isn’t much different than fitting a line to a series of points. The key to success, and most of the work, is getting a dataset the computer can read and train on. Unsupervised learning is still a great ways off.
Maybe. Self driving cars and trucks could cause a couple million job losses pretty soon. Though maybe they'll still need to employ drivers for most of our lifetime because of regulations/limitations in the technology. And obviously humans aren't the best drivers to begin with. But other big job losses could be in telemarketing, loan officers/light banking, cashiers, paralegals, pharmacy techs, fast food, warehousing, retail generally. Question mark is the "caring" fields, like will we accept robotic nursing assistants. Maybe teachers replaced by ipods or having 100 kids in a class instead of 25. People may say "well those jobs stink!" but for 20 million people, it's a faster Future Shock type of change rather than the much slower pace of automation under basic robotics.
The optimist in me imagines a utopian scenario where we all can work like 20 hours a week and spend the rest of our time pursing art and literature and physical activity.
The realist in me imagines it more like giant poverty encampment zones and private militias wondering the streets with genetically engineered attack dogs to keep out the unemployed riff raff while Facebook debates UBI payments to keep the peasants at bay and buying Chinese made goods.
Happy Thanksgiving!
They wont have to work, Amazon can just drone deliver opioids to numb the masses of unskilled/unemployed.
VW going to have a tough time in the U.S. market since the U.S. government no longer allows them to sell diesel vehicles on the U.S market die to the computer scandal. I here Mazda is releasing a diesel in the CR-5 next year which should get near 50mpg and be under $30,000. VW is just over priced for a gasoline engine that gets the same mpg as everyone else.
So they have more money to sponsor Pitt's new on-campus stadium, of course. "Amazon Pitt Stadium"
You seriously don't get why people don't like Amazon? The Amazon warehouse in the Lehigh Valley is a notoriously bad place to work, so much so that the Allentown Morning Call ran an expose on the place a few years ago:
http://www.mcall.com/news/local/amazon/mc-allentown-amazon-complaints-20110917-story.html
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