OT: girls HS flag football

[OH Pete]

Does anybody really believe that girls want to play flag football in any significant number? Maybe girls just want to be girls...why are we forcing these strange narratives on them that are largely appealing to young men/boys? Girls and boys are different, that is okay. FFS!!

Hard to tell. Girls sports weren't really much of a thing as recently as 50 years ago. Now tons of girls are playing many different sports. So while girls may not be interested in flag football right now in huge numbers (and I'm just saying that for the sake of argument, there may be demand that I'm not aware of), I would guess it will grow like girls soccer, field hockey, volleyball, and lacrosse have. Even girls wrestling is growing in interest from girls. A local D3 college just announced they are adding a girls wrestling team. So there must be interest somewhere.

I was in Florida last March with my son's HS baseball team (we do a spring break trip there every year) and stumbled onto a HS girls flag football game because the football stadium and baseball field shared the same parking lot. It was pretty interesting. Some of the girls were really good players and some were terrible. I think that is fairly common in girls sports though - much larger disparity of talent than in boys sports. I only watched a little over a quarter because my son's game was starting. But from what I observed, the girls were very engaged in the game and seemed to be loving it. And it had more fan support than I expected as I estimate that a couple hundred people were there.

I do find your remark that maybe girls just want to be girls and suggesting that someone is forcing them to do something to be a little strange. How would you know what girls want to do? Maybe, just maybe, the reason that they didn't used to play sports is because society deemed sports to be for boys and that it just wasn't offered. I don't have girls, but my boys have girl friends who play sports and love it. So why would you try to suggest it is wrong? There is still dance, band, choir, drama club, cheerleading, etc if the girls (or boys) prefer that to sports.

You whole premise is pretty insulting to women, IMO.

 

[pittdan77]

Hard to tell. Girls sports weren't really much of a thing as recently as 50 years ago. Now tons of girls are playing many different sports. So while girls may not be interested in flag football right now in huge numbers (and I'm just saying that for the sake of argument, there may be demand that I'm not aware of), I would guess it will grow like girls soccer, field hockey, volleyball, and lacrosse have. Even girls wrestling is growing in interest from girls. A local D3 college just announced they are adding a girls wrestling team. So there must be interest somewhere.

I was in Florida last March with my son's HS baseball team (we do a spring break trip there every year) and stumbled onto a HS girls flag football game because the football stadium and baseball field shared the same parking lot. It was pretty interesting. Some of the girls were really good players and some were terrible. I think that is fairly common in girls sports though - much larger disparity of talent than in boys sports. I only watched a little over a quarter because my son's game was starting. But from what I observed, the girls were very engaged in the game and seemed to be loving it. And it had more fan support than I expected as I estimate that a couple hundred people were there.

There still aren't as many opportunities for the sports that exist. That's part of what we were talking about above, and thus the disparity that exists between players, sometimes. It's so much better than is was even 30 years ago but there are still some strides that need to be made.

And yes, it is hard to believe that the "pioneers" of women's sports are still coaching today. A local school honored their coach and several other women who played on their first volleyball team in the 70's. Almost nobody had teams in the beginning. It's been fifty years and some women's sports are finally starting to break through and have enough popularity to be somewhat relevant.

 

[jivecat]

Hard to tell. Girls sports weren't really much of a thing as recently as 50 years ago. Now tons of girls are playing many different sports. So while girls may not be interested in flag football right now in huge numbers (and I'm just saying that for the sake of argument, there may be demand that I'm not aware of), I would guess it will grow like girls soccer, field hockey, volleyball, and lacrosse have. Even girls wrestling is growing in interest from girls. A local D3 college just announced they are adding a girls wrestling team. So there must be interest somewhere.

I was in Florida last March with my son's HS baseball team (we do a spring break trip there every year) and stumbled onto a HS girls flag football game because the football stadium and baseball field shared the same parking lot. It was pretty interesting. Some of the girls were really good players and some were terrible. I think that is fairly common in girls sports though - much larger disparity of talent than in boys sports. I only watched a little over a quarter because my son's game was starting. But from what I observed, the girls were very engaged in the game and seemed to be loving it. And it had more fan support than I expected as I estimate that a couple hundred people were there.

I do find your remark that maybe girls just want to be girls and suggesting that someone is forcing them to do something to be a little strange. How would you know what girls want to do? Maybe, just maybe, the reason that they didn't used to play sports is because society deemed sports to be for boys and that it just wasn't offered. I don't have girls, but my boys have girl friends who play sports and love it. So why would you try to suggest it is wrong? There is still dance, band, choir, drama club, cheerleading, etc if the girls (or boys) prefer that to sports.

You whole premise is pretty insulting to women, IMO.

I find it insulting to men that they show a commercial of a girl beating a boy in a sport like football. It's a joke and false narrative. They are lying to these girls while making the "white boy athlete" the villain.

 

[OH Pete]

I find it insulting to men that they show a commercial of a girl beating a boy in a sport like football. It's a joke and false narrative. They are lying to these girls while making the "white boy athlete" the villain.

Oh dear. This is where I take Mark Twain's advice and not argue with you.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

I find it insulting to men that they show a commercial of a girl beating a boy in a sport like football. It's a joke and false narrative. They are lying to these girls while making the "white boy athlete" the villain.

honestly, it was so ridiculous and over the top that it was funny.. "The Brad" with his name, The brad on his letterman jacket, the 80's mullet. you just have to laugh at it..

 

[jivecat]

Oh dear. This is where I take Mark Twain's advice and not argue with you.

Portraying any group unfairly as villains in commercials, shows, or media can contribute to harmful stereotypes and reinforce negative biases. This applies to white athletes just as it does to any other group. When media repeatedly depicts certain demographics in a negative light, it can shape public perception in a way that is not based on reality but rather on a constructed narrative.

In the case of white athletes, if they are consistently portrayed as villains, it can create an unfair perception that they are inherently bad actors, selfish, or antagonistic. This would be just as problematic as unfairly portraying athletes of other races in a negative or stereotypical manner. Ideally, media should strive for balance and accuracy, representing individuals based on their actions and character rather than broad generalizations.

The goal of storytelling and advertising should be to reflect reality in a fair and inclusive way, rather than reinforcing divisive narratives.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

Portraying any group unfairly as villains in commercials, shows, or media can contribute to harmful stereotypes and reinforce negative biases. This applies to white athletes just as it does to any other group. When media repeatedly depicts certain demographics in a negative light, it can shape public perception in a way that is not based on reality but rather on a constructed narrative.

In the case of white athletes, if they are consistently portrayed as villains, it can create an unfair perception that they are inherently bad actors, selfish, or antagonistic. This would be just as problematic as unfairly portraying athletes of other races in a negative or stereotypical manner. Ideally, media should strive for balance and accuracy, representing individuals based on their actions and character rather than broad generalizations.

The goal of storytelling and advertising should be to reflect reality in a fair and inclusive way, rather than reinforcing divisive narratives.

yeah but advertisers can get away with it because white people dont really cry and complain about it like other groups. it's why you dont see a minority as a villain or a bad guy and every terrorist in a movie or a tv show will never be middle eastern looking, it's just not worth the fake backlash..

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Oh dear. This is where I take Mark Twain's advice and not argue with you.

As I have said before, it's best to assume that he's trolling. Because the alternative....

 

[jivecat]

As I have said before, it's best to assume that he's trolling. Because the alternative....

What do s the alternative? Truth?

 

[OH Pete]

As I have said before, it's best to assume that he's trolling. Because the alternative....

Yeah. Hopefully. Not willing to try to find out though.

 

[pittdan77]

The goal of storytelling and advertising should be to reflect reality in a fair and inclusive way, rather than reinforcing divisive narratives.

Horses playing football?
Puppy Monkey Baby?
Seal, as a seal?
Portraying Tom Brady as a robot that cheats? (okay, that one might be true)
My cat was really upset by the ChatGPT commercial. The black and white shapes freaked him out but then he is kinda dumb.

 

[jivecat]

Horses playing football?
Puppy Monkey Baby?
Seal, as a seal?
Portraying Tom Brady as a robot that cheats? (okay, that one might be true)
My cat was really upset by the ChatGPT commercial. The black and white shapes freaked him out but then he is kinda dumb.

lol. I get your point but the same narrative keeps getting pushed. I don’t take it seriously but I have context and experience in my life. I feel for young men and women. They are being force fed lies and hate on mainstream media as well as social media. Seems like a recipe for disaster.

 

[pittdan77]

lol. I get your point but the same narrative keeps getting pushed. I don’t take it seriously but I have context and experience in my life. I feel for young men and women. They are being force fed lies and hate on mainstream media as well as social media. Seems like a recipe for disaster.

None of that is happening. Young men and women have a better grasp on what is real than any of us older farts. These kids take one look at a video and know if it's fake or not. If something is a setup or not. Old guys cried around about litter boxes in schools and kids eating tide pods and the kids snickered because they were in on the joke. That commercial? It was a farce. There's no narrative, just something silly that was meant to entertain.

 

[jivecat]

What are your thoughts on people pushing back on the narrative in commercials that are not comical like Gillette, Bud Light, Disney, and Target. Do you think they don’t get it?

Let’s face it the dollar rules. The NFL is trying to expand their brand and participation. Nothing wrong with that but you should not alienate your key demographic. Marketing 101.

 

[pittdan77]

What are your thoughts on people pushing back on the narrative in commercials that are not comical like Gillette, Bud Light, Disney, and Target. Do you think they don’t get it?

Let’s face it the dollar rules. The NFL is trying to expand their brand and participation. Nothing wrong with that but you should not alienate your key demographic. Marketing 101.

Well, yeah. Sometimes the general population doesn't "get it" and you see what happens. There is backlash, of course. Pretty rare that it sticks forever, though. People are fickle. No such thing as bad publicity, right?

I think you're being a bit hyperbolic to try to prove your point about this particular commercial. I don't think anyone was alienated, except maybe you. There was a whole genre of movies in the 80's that revolved around jocks or snobs getting their come-up-'ence. Nobody was alienated then and nobody is alienated now. Heck, it got three pages of discussion on this little message board. Pretty effective if you ask me.

 

[jivecat]

Well, yeah. Sometimes the general population doesn't "get it" and you see what happens. There is backlash, of course. Pretty rare that it sticks forever, though. People are fickle. No such thing as bad publicity, right?

I think you're being a bit hyperbolic to try to prove your point about this particular commercial. I don't think anyone was alienated, except maybe you. There was a whole genre of movies in the 80's that revolved around jocks or snobs getting their come-up-'ence. Nobody was alienated then and nobody is alienated now. Heck, it got three pages of discussion on this little message board. Pretty effective if you ask me.

You make a good point. I didn’t care about the 80’s and 90’s villians. Not sure why I am caring now. It seems like stuff gets thrown in your face and if you disagree then You are the bad guy. I think the pendulum is starting to swing the other way on all that non sense.

 

[Richard A]

I played in a legit 9-man flag league for many years. Saw guys get knocked out cold, emergency operations to fix a perforated spleen, and many broken bones. I'm completely honest when I say I've seen more brutal injuries playing flag than I ever saw playing traditional football. There are some teams out of the Baltimore area that are just downright scary.

I can attest to that. I played in a 6 on 6 flag football for about 25 years. One league was played on the winter at Pitt Stadium. In both the fall and winter leagues the “flag” didn’t matter much because it was a lot of hitting and tackling, I sustained a knee injury that still bothers me today and a dislocated shoulder. The turf at Pitt Stadium was hard as hell and I was bounced off it a few times.

 

[pittdan77]

You make a good point. I didn’t care about the 80’s and 90’s villians. Not sure why I am caring now. It seems like stuff gets thrown in your face and if you disagree then You are the bad guy. I think the pendulum is starting to swing the other way on all that non sense.

I don't think you're a "bad guy" or anything. Humor swings both ways and people on either side get upset about things that they probably shouldn't. And yes, some topics are more taboo than others. The line gets drawn at when a stereotype becomes dangerous or derogatory. The "dumb jock" that gets put in their place stereotype isn't really hurting anyone because nobody really sees themselves as a dumb jock.

 

[pittdan77]

I can attest to that. I played in a 6 on 6 flag football for about 25 years. One league was played on the winter at Pitt Stadium. In both the fall and winter leagues the “flag” didn’t matter much because it was a lot of hitting and tackling, I sustained a knee injury that still bothers me today and a dislocated shoulder. The turf at Pitt Stadium was hard as hell and I was bounced off it a few times.

Tackling was always a penalty but it still happened because multiple guys would be going for the flag at once or something. The blocking was always wild, though. 9-man still has room for big guys and I think that's what makes it wild.

 

[Richard A]

I don't think you're a "bad guy" or anything. Humor swings both ways and people on either side get upset about things that they probably shouldn't. And yes, some topics are more taboo than others. The line gets drawn at when a stereotype becomes dangerous or derogatory. The "dumb jock" that gets put in their place stereotype isn't really hurting anyone because nobody really sees themselves as a dumb jock.

Everyone is too sensitive in today’s society. In a lot of situations if you don’t agree with them then they don’t want to talk to you. I say f… you if you can’t take a joke. But that just me.

 

[pittdan77]

Everyone is too sensitive in today’s society. In a lot of situations if you don’t agree with them then they don’t want to talk to you. I say f… you if you can’t take a joke. But that just me.

There's truth to that. I think it's a reaction to the pendulum being swung so far to the other side that the jokes were cruel and even nasty. Not saying it's what @jivecat was getting at but I sometimes find that people get upset they can't tell a cruel joke so they rage at stuff that nobody cares about. Every side of whatever issue it is does it.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

There's truth to that. I think it's a reaction to the pendulum being swung so far to the other side that the jokes were cruel and even nasty. Not saying it's what @jivecat was getting at but I sometimes find that people get upset they can't tell a cruel joke so they rage at stuff that nobody cares about. Every side of whatever issue it is does it.

i've made a few dei jokes on here and well, it went over as well as you'd expect it too. of course it was deleted soon after, shocker i know..


people cant laugh at themselves anymore and it's pathetic..

 

[pittdan77]

people cant laugh at themselves anymore and it's pathetic..

Agree. If you can't laugh at yourself you really shouldn't laugh at anyone else.

 

[Conemaugh]

I was thinking more along the lines of the Pittsburgh Passion. Introduce girls to that in youth sports, instead of having their first chance to play that being once they are out of school.

Just like some males have a body to be lineman, the same is true with females. Give those girls a chance to play a sport other than being a thrower in track. As you mention, the girls that succeed in flag football are just the ones that are good at soccer or basketball or something like that.

Flag football isn't the same game as real football. Yeah it's got some similarities, but actual football can, and most often is, won in the trenches, which flag football obviously doesn't replicate. I think allowing more people to play real football (i.e., 50% of the population that is female) would be good for the sport's future.

The last thing I want to see is young girls putting on weight to try and play woman's high school football as a lineman. Not to be a jerk, but it is just unhealthy for young girls and society at large.

 

[Conemaugh]

I played in a legit 9-man flag league for many years. Saw guys get knocked out cold, emergency operations to fix a perforated spleen, and many broken bones. I'm completely honest when I say I've seen more brutal injuries playing flag than I ever saw playing traditional football. There are some teams out of the Baltimore area that are just downright scary.

I can agree. Not that I was playing in a league at that level, but I did play flag football in a YMCA men's league for a couple of seasons. It went over the winter, so it was played on frozen icy fields and guys went down left and right. Some of the toughest dudes were rugby guys who played football in an entirely different way than I was used to. I hated those guys. It was was tackle football and then grab the flag.

 

[Conemaugh]

I think the NFL would LOVE for boys football to be flag football until Middle School. The military-style dad coaches, 100 degree training camps in August and roughness of 8 year olds getting lit up scares away a ton of potentially good players. If all football was flag until MS, more kids play and develop a love for it before putting the pads on. There is very little advantage in learning the incantracies of 11v11 tackle football at those young ages anyway. Football is a size, speed, strength, athleticism sport. You either have it or you don't. If Saquon wouldn't have picked up a football until his senior year of HS, he would be the same.

Great post. I see no reason for kids to put on pads until 7th grade.

 

[Upg bobcat]

The last thing I want to see is young girls putting on weight to try and play woman's high school football as a lineman. Not to be a jerk, but it is just unhealthy for young girls and society at large.

Then you are against young males doing that, too? It is unhealthy for males just as much as it is unhealthy for females.

 

[Conemaugh]

Then you are against young males doing that, too? It is unhealthy for males just as much as it is unhealthy for females.

😔 No, not all things are the same for boys and girls. I don't ever want to see male cheerleaders wearing skirts at a football game either.

I do think it is unhealthy for boys to try and add weight too... at least until they are in junior high school.

 

[pittdan77]

I can agree. Not that I was playing in a league at that level, but I did play flag football in a YMCA men's league for a couple of seasons. It went over the winter, so it was played on frozen icy fields and guys went down left and right. Some of the toughest dudes were rugby guys who played football in an entirely different way than I was used to. I hated those guys. It was was tackle football and then grab the flag.

Oh yeah. The rugby guys are scary because they have zero regard for their own body. There was a guy from Windber that was an absolute specimen and he scared the daylights out of me and he was on my team.

 

[jtownknowitall]

I was always more amused by the 130 pound wrestler trying to lose ten pounds by the 2:00 weigh in than the o-lineman trying to gain ten.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

I was always more amused by the 130 pound wrestler trying to lose ten pounds by the 2:00 weigh in than the o-lineman trying to gain ten.

lol, my buddy in high school would carry a cup around and spit in it all day to make weight. think they got away from this though, didnt they? at the high school level with weigh ins?

I dont know, i could be wrong.