OT: Hall-of-fame lock Ben Roethlisberger 10-for-10, 182 yds, 2 TDs
- Thread starter UPitt '89
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Fathead can't carry Marino's jock and if you believe otherwise, you know nothing about FB
Ok, skippy...but you were the guy doing the taunting..let's be clear about that.
I'll make sure to let Fathead know. He'll no doubt be encouraged that you call him that as a term of endearment.
As a pure pocket passer? No. But that statement may be a little over the top. Ben may not have as much polish as a passer, but he can do other things that Marino couldn't. Ben's ability to extend plays by avoiding a rush, either with his mobility or just his sheer strength and determination to stay on his feet and keep looking downfield... I mean, how many have you seen do it any better?
It's no mistake that the Steelers have had a lot of success since 2004.
He's not really much better than Ben. He could of had Marino numbers if he played a long time in a really pass happy offense.
Marino never won anything at any level. I mean if you want to rip FATHEAD, at least be advised that you're ripping a champion, something Marino never was. FATHEAD won 2 Super Bowls, FATHEAD even won the MAC Championship game in College, FATHEAD beat D-1 Power 5 Louisville in a bowl game, with a MAC team, FATHEAD has walked off the field multiple times a winner, I mean if you care about stuff like that.
Ben has been a good to great QB in an era where the starting QB seems more critical than ever, and when there seems to be mostly awful ones in the league. Pittsburgh is definitely luckier to have him vs the garbage Cleveland rolls out every week (though that's obviously an extreme).
He isn't perfect. Has a dud game on occasion. Seems out of condition most years. But much rather have him than not.
He isn't perfect. Has a dud game on occasion. Seems out of condition most years. But much rather have him than not.
Champion? He was always surrounded by great D's and always had a superb running game at his disposal when the Steelers went far into the playoffs . Without a running game he's a mistake prone scatter armed boob! Marino carried the Dolphins on his back . The Steelers carried Fathead along for the ride,
I've always viewed him as a borderline HOF'er with full knowledge he's an eventual lock to get in. Definitely not a first-ballot selection, but probably within 5 years of eligibility. I view more as a compiler than a true superstar. Never the best at his position, top 5 at best. He'll get in, but I don't think he's an absolute lock...
That's not my position. That is everyone's position but your's. How many times do you mention that Pick. But you fail to mention the Steelers OL in 2008 and 2010 (2 Super Bowl years) may have been the worst OL's in the history of that game.
You forget that pass to Santonio, which was as good as any Montana pass.
You just don't like the guy, and you are the type of person once you have an opinion you will never, ever change it. Flat Earther.
2008 and 2010 he had "great D's?" Really? And his OL sucked. He didn't have particularly great RB's. And while the 1st Super Bowl he sucked, the 3 games, all on the road leading up to that game, as a 22 year old, Ben was fantastic.
Dan Marino's post season QB Rating is 77.7. Ben's is 84.5
Marino had 3 stupendous years, one where he went to the Super Bowl. But he never won. He didn't win the big one (PSU) at Pitt either.
I am not saying Ben is better than Marino, I am saying he can hold his jockstrap.
Ben's performances in the three games that led up to the Super Bowl were absolutely stellar. His performance in Denver in the AFC Championship game was outstanding. 21-for-29, 275, 2 TDs, 0 Ints, 124.9 rating.
BUT HE THREW AN INTERCEPTION AGAINST THE PACKERS!!!!! WE LOST THAT SUPER BOWL! FATHEAD!!
The score was GB 28, Pit 25 with under 5 minutes to go.... Steelers were driving for the go ahead or at least tying score. Mendenhall fumbled.
There was one goat in that game, and it was Rashard Mendenhall.
Not sure how accurate this site is, but this supposedly lists the QB's Playoff Career Passer Rating.
Ben is behind Peyton, Brady, Eli and even Flacco.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career_playoffs.htm
One interesting thing about Eli, 8-4 in the playoffs, but those 8 wins all came in only 2 seasons, the years they won their SB's. Flacco is pretty good in the playoffs. Too bad for them they've only made it once since their SB, with one 5-11 and two 8-8 years.
*not going to engage in any further Ben argument, just wait til he's gone*
My beef is with the HOF in general. I just think it is watered down. Plus, I am not really an NFL fan in general..so just egging on the conversation.
No he carried the Steelers, 2005 playoffs, in those games, Cowher won by ABANDONING THE RUN, and Ben lifted the team on his shoulders and unilaterally carried them through 3 AFC road playoff games with his arm, THOSE GAMES WHERE WON BY PASSING THE BALL, and Ben even made the game saving tackle when FAT BOY Bettis, playoff choker, fumbled at the goal line. Then in Super Bowl XLIII he again used his passing arm to unilaterally carry the team 84 years in 2:34 to win the Super Bowl, had he not been drafted they would still be selling those "One for the Thumb" t-shirts. Dan Marino accomplished NOTHING BUT NUMBERS in his "storied" Championship-LESS career.
Nobody cares, it has to be watered down, because they want to have a ceremony every year and induct multiple candidates from multiple teams, it's more about selling that event, bringing tourists to Canton and the game, getting TV ratings on NFLN in the summer. etc.
Like I said Fathead can't carry Marino's jock....Fathead didn't even show up in the SP game against Seattle..Fathead, the No show. And he stunk against Green Bay. And by and large this year he's been highly erratic. One SP title for fathead when he did anything...More like Doug Williams in his Super Bowl play than Joe Montana, largely because he's both dumb and an inaccurate passer.
- Pittsburgh is fortunate to have had Ben. Life before him and potentially after him is and will be dicey.
- He's the biggest jerk in Pittsburgh sports history. I don't like him. Hes good. Not great... just like Tomlin. And using the logic of some on this board, that makes me a racist I guess.
- Will he be in the HOF? Yes. Was Ben one of the top 5 QB's of his era? No. It seems a bit odd that a QB with that description is a sure bet HOFer. It's easy to rattle off double digit numbers of QBs in this era who would have had success with this team in his first 8-9 years. But championships matter. And he's not done winning them.
- Yes he wasn't good in his first Super Bowl, but he was very good in the three previous games in the lead up.
- I don't hear people bash Bradshaw for his lack of a role in Super bowl IX. All I hear is 4 time SB champion and surely that's on his plaque in Canton. Ben has 2 and you can never diminish that. If this team stays healthy, and next years does as well, he has a good shot at a 3rd.
- I seem to remember the goat in the SB vs Green Bay also being the left guard or left tackle. His defender got to Ben as he was throwing and it directly led to the interception.
We've been over this before. Ben is top 10 in every passing stat. In fact, he's the only QB of his draft class that can boast that (Rivers and Eli are outside the top 10 in at least 1 stat - I believe QBR - but I'm not looking it up again). He has 2 Super Bowl wins and another appearance.
There is only one QB with multiple Super Bowl wins to not get in the HoF and that is Jim Plunkett. Ben, and to a lesser extent Eli, are therefore likely locks for the HoF because they have top 10 numbers and multiple Super Bowl wins. I would argue that Eli is less impressive because his numbers are only slightly better than Ben's but he's played in more than one season's worth of additional games due to Ben's injuries and suspensions.
Ben has had some talent around him, but it's been unbalanced throughout his career. In the midpoint of his career, he had NO offensive line, NO running game, and AVERAGE WRs. Their top RB didn't crack 800 yards. Their top WR was 32 year old Hines Ward who had about 1,050 receiving yards. More recently, his offensive talent has been excellent (with the caveat that his best players are often injured or suspended in the playoffs) but the defense has been trash. This is typical for an NFL team. Brady had guys like Ty Law, Seymour, Wilfork, Rodney Harrison, Moss, Welker, Gronk - his team talent has been good. Rivers had multiple HoF on offense (Tomlinson and Gates) and a very good defense. Eli has Odell Beckham and had a very good defensive line. Tony Romo had Dez Bryant, TO, and Witten. In short, you can't say Ben's talent is objectively better or worse than other good teams. He's certainly won IN SPITE OF the talent around him. Hate him all you want, but he's getting in on day one. You better get over it.
Two. We lost the GB Super Bowl because Rodgers was on another level. If Greg Jennings wasn't dropping balls left and right, that game wouldn't have been close. He couldn't be stopped that day (certainly not with our defense which was never great against 4-5 WR sets and hyper accurate QBs like Rodgers and Brady). You aren't gonna win many playoff games when your defense gives up 31 points. Again, that is not on Ben. Get over it.
There is only one QB with multiple Super Bowl wins to not get in the HoF and that is Jim Plunkett. Ben, and to a lesser extent Eli, are therefore likely locks for the HoF because they have top 10 numbers and multiple Super Bowl wins. I would argue that Eli is less impressive because his numbers are only slightly better than Ben's but he's played in more than one season's worth of additional games due to Ben's injuries and suspensions.
Ben has had some talent around him, but it's been unbalanced throughout his career. In the midpoint of his career, he had NO offensive line, NO running game, and AVERAGE WRs. Their top RB didn't crack 800 yards. Their top WR was 32 year old Hines Ward who had about 1,050 receiving yards. More recently, his offensive talent has been excellent (with the caveat that his best players are often injured or suspended in the playoffs) but the defense has been trash. This is typical for an NFL team. Brady had guys like Ty Law, Seymour, Wilfork, Rodney Harrison, Moss, Welker, Gronk - his team talent has been good. Rivers had multiple HoF on offense (Tomlinson and Gates) and a very good defense. Eli has Odell Beckham and had a very good defensive line. Tony Romo had Dez Bryant, TO, and Witten. In short, you can't say Ben's talent is objectively better or worse than other good teams. He's certainly won IN SPITE OF the talent around him. Hate him all you want, but he's getting in on day one. You better get over it.
Two. We lost the GB Super Bowl because Rodgers was on another level. If Greg Jennings wasn't dropping balls left and right, that game wouldn't have been close. He couldn't be stopped that day (certainly not with our defense which was never great against 4-5 WR sets and hyper accurate QBs like Rodgers and Brady). You aren't gonna win many playoff games when your defense gives up 31 points. Again, that is not on Ben. Get over it.
Really? You could say Brady, Peyton, as absolutely better, I honestly see no one else I could call a lock in that era to rank ahead of him? Brees, Rodgers, yeah, if numbers are the top criteria ahead of team success. Eli, close, both with 2 Super Bowls, but Ben has playoff wins in more than 2 seasons. Even Peyton is way less successful as a playoff QB.
Yeah. Good point. Those 4 are all predominantly thought of as better QBs. After that it gets dicey. I wouldn't put Eli ahead of Ben. So at best Ben is the #5 QB in his era. Favre had some good years while Ben was in the league but a big chunk of his work was earlier. Then you have plenty of QBs who every year seem to have better years than Ben who knock him down in the yearly statistics. Guys like Ryan, Palmer, Warner come to mind. Ben was never going to be All Pro with Brady and Manning in the league with him. But take those two out and then Ben would have to deal with Brees and Rodgers. Take those two out and Ben would have others to deal with.
But careers are also evaluated based on longevity (which the Steelers provided) and championships. And for that--he's a lock for the HOF.
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