The only way Sid gets traded is if he asks for a trade. They lose hundreds of season ticket holders if they trade Sid. As far as Guentzel, if he goes to another team his numbers will go down, but his pocket book will go up.
OT Jake Guentzel
- Thread starter pittbb80
- Start date
You can't trade Sid without his approval. That's why you have the discussion with him.
Guentzel should be traded. He is a very good player that is going to demand way more than what the Penguins have under the cap. The good thing is, Jake is going to be the crown of the trade market this year and there will be teams out bidding each other to get him. The Pens need to take full advantage of this. Some bright spots, the Pens had three of their drafted players play in the World Juniors for their respected countries. Another bright spot is I truly believe the Pens scouting department that has been built is by FAR the best group this franchise has ever had. I think in the upcoming years we are going to see the Pens develop some very good talent.
The sad thing is that I thought Guentzel was supposed to be the guy who led the Pens in the post-Crosby/Malkin era. With the current cap situation, I’m not sure you can extend him long-term. I don’t want to trade him, but that very well may be the best option.
On December 15, 2015, the Penguins were 17-15-3. 1 month later on January 18th, 2016, the Penguins were 21-17-7. That team went on to win back to back Stanley Cups.
On January 12th this year, the Penguins have a record of 20-15-5, a very similar record to 2015-2016 at this point. Over the course of the last month this season, the Penguins have a record of 9-3-2.
I watch the Penguins but am far from a hockey expert. But it would seem to me far too many people are counting out Crosby / Malkin / Letang / Karlsson / Guentzel way too soon for my taste. Especially for a team that looks hot over the last month.
On January 12th this year, the Penguins have a record of 20-15-5, a very similar record to 2015-2016 at this point. Over the course of the last month this season, the Penguins have a record of 9-3-2.
I watch the Penguins but am far from a hockey expert. But it would seem to me far too many people are counting out Crosby / Malkin / Letang / Karlsson / Guentzel way too soon for my taste. Especially for a team that looks hot over the last month.
The difference being that your big 3 were 8 years younger and more likely of handling the grind of a stretch run and playoffs. This team is the oldest in the NHL. They also lack the depth throughout that 2015 squad had. This team doesn't have a Patric Hornqvist to create chaos in front of the net. Or a Matt Cullen to man the 4th line. Conor Sheary, Phil Kessel and Carl Hagelin added speed and offense to that lineup that other teams lacked. Who on this team is our Chris Kunitz? Brian Dumoulin and Ian Cole were better defensive defensemen than they have on this current roster.
This little surge that they have put together looks good now, and you can compare those results to times past, but the playoffs are a different animal. This team hasn't had playoff chops since those cup years.
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What also happened? They fired Mike Johnston and hire Mike Sullivan. Same thing 2008-09. Stick to basketball.
They have Erik Karlsson who is far better than any of those players you named who is a sure fire NHL hall of famer and NHL superstar, who has started to heat up over the last month. As I said, Im not a hockey expert. But if they keep winning, they are going to roll with the current team.
Big time players have a habit of stepping up in big time moments. And Ive seen it time and time again with Crosby and Malkin and crew that they always heat up the 2nd half of the season. We'll see if it continues, but the last month record is what it is.
I'll take all the players I mentioned over one Erik Karlsson any day. Those were the same players that defeated the Ottawa Senators and Erik Karlsson in the ECF that year. ( Kunitz scored the series winning goal in OT of game seven...)
Yea... Karllson almost single handily beat us that year. We won in game 7 in double overtime.
Karllson won the James Norris last year as the best defensemen in the NHL, the third time he has won the award. This is strictly my opinion, but counting him out right now would be foolish the way he has looked lately. He is one of the few players capable of completely taking games over by himself. And I know he wants a cup bad considering his age.
But he didn't. He is one player. How many playoff wins does Connor McDavid boast?
The Norris Trophy almost exclusively goes to the defenseman with the best offensive stats, not always the best overall defenseman...which Karlsson isn't. Not even close. He is far behind the 25 goals and 101 points he produced last year. ( 7G 22A ) Your faith that Karlsson is going to himself propel this team to heights they haven't reached in 7 years is blind faith IMHO.
I have been a Pens fan since 1972 and would like nothing more than to see this crew win another cup. Just one look at the league standings should tell you they have been passed by from more than just a few teams, even with this last little surge. They have zero assets to offer to bolster a lineup in need of sandpaper guys needed in the playoffs that Sullivan refuses to employ anyway.
It's time to turn the page.
This makes zero sense. They are a measly 6 points away from 2nd place in the metro with a game in hand.
They are a .500 team 40 games in and 6th in the division with a 14% powerplay rate. ( Yes Karlsson is the QB of the unit ).
Let me know where they are in May and June.
There is a ton of irony in what you just wrote.
The Penguins powerplay from November 11th to December 13th was 0-37. In the month since, they have the 11th best power play in the NHL including 4 straight games with a powerplay goal. And ironically in the last month, their win / loss record has surged right along with a power play that has made a major uturn since the start of the season.
The problem with people is in general, they expect superstars that get traded to just put up giant stats from day 1 and pile on the wins without even considering there is a chemistry element that needs to take place that takes time. I stress this all the time on the basketball board. Some players need extra time to develop, get comfortable with their teammates, etc..
So while you have shit on Karllson for the slow start on the power play, its very possible you may eat a giant plate of crow before the season is over when an NHL superstar gets going and gets comfortable. We'll see.
They're also 2 points away from 7th place, with an extra game played. See how that works?
You're seriously comparing this roster to the 2016 roster. That's laughable. 2016 Letang was better than 2024 Karlsson. Our stars and best players were in their primes, 27, 28, & 29 years old. The 3rd line was Hagelin, Bonino and Kessel.
Just stop.
What I compared was the record to 2016 at this point in time and nothing more. Lets not put words in my mouth and say I said anything more. I said Im not giving up on the current roster and team when this team has surged in the past month and the power play has completely turned around.
People do the same thing in basketball constantly. 5 to 10 games deep into the season they have all the contenders and pretenders lined up and figured out like a bunch of experts and they dont even give the teams time to build chemistry and improve.
The most laughable thing about this was Pitt basketball last year. Even I was ready to throw the towel in after the Alabama State game which was the 5th game of the season. And Pitt basketball shut everyone up including me last year.
Listen. If you want to bet against Crosby, Malkin and company that is fine. Im not doing that. When Karlsson turns it on which he is capable of, he can be a man against boys as he is one of the best defensemen in the history of the NHL. And if he changes the complexion of the power play unit, this teams potential can change in a hurry.
The first half of the season in basketball or the NHL is almost irrelevant in comparison to the 2nd half which is far more relevant. Its the 2nd half of the season that means everything and when teams get hot in the 2nd half, they make deep runs in both sports.
Crosby, Malkin and Letang all have NTCs which were awarded based on their contributions for the last 3 cups. Fleury would still be here too if Sullivan would have picked him instead of Murray.
None of those guys are going anywhere this season unless they request it.
Again stick to basketball. I am the expert here, not you; You are proving yourself to be one of these people who just look at statistics without context.
You're the one comparing the record, at this point in the season, between 2016 and 2024 teams.
Just so I'm clear, it's a comparison with no context other than record, but you're insinuating this team can have the same turnaround.
I guess anything is possible, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting.
2016 had excellent third and fourth lines. This team has neither. 2016 had a ton of speed, although it had probably peaked at that point. 2016 had very good goaltending. The league, in fact, was different back then, as the NHL was only beginning to copy the Pens' speed game, which is now fully embraced.
There is no comparison between 2016, 2017, and today's team. None whatsoever. This current team is one major injury away from a total collapse.
There is no comparison between 2016, 2017, and today's team. None whatsoever. This current team is one major injury away from a total collapse.
Sid and Letang was not yet 30. Geno just turned 30. Guentzel and some of the others were in their early 20's.
Sid is probably the only one that is playing at the same level he was in 16/17
Malkin is a shell of what he once was and Tanger is not as good.
And as others have said they’ve lost talent and grit on the third and fourth lines. Not to mention the Goaltender play is. It the same
And this is irrelevant as older players can still play well.
The Boston Bruins had an average age of 29 years old last year, they were one of the oldest teams in the league, and they were the best regular season team in NHL history. You know who else has been really old in the NHL the last few years? The Colorado Avalanche who just won the cup in 2022.
Im not worried about Crosby, Malkin, etc.. Everything hinges on how dominant Karlsson can become and how much better the goaltending can be.
Nedeljkovic has an 8-3-2 record with a 2.66 goals against. As it stands the Penguins are 6th overall in the league in goals against. Continue to fix the power play and upgrade it, and the Penguins will continue to surge like the Oilers who is the hottest team in the NHL and a month ago everyone thought was dead in the water.
Yes
1 player who is cheap doesn’t slow down “rebuilding “
Your argument is “ I want the Pens to be worse for years - so hopefully they can eventually get back to the playoffs with different players”
It’s crazy talk
It actually isn't, in the land of the NHL. There are virtually no good teams that get to that position without hitting on a few of their own very high draft picks. It's almost impossible to become a true contender without a few guys that were drafted in the top ten in their year. You can get really really lucky, like the Red Wings did hitting on Datsyuik and Zetterberg, but that will never be repeated again.
In order to get good, you almost have to go through a period of time of being really, really bad (and not trading away your picks). Then you have to hope you hit on your picks. The Flyers never seem to do that all that much, and hence they have been mired in no-mans land. But Chicago will likely rebound nicely in the next few years, with all of the picks they've had. Of course, like we got lucky getting Crosby, they got lucky getting Bedard.
As I said - everyone is moveable except Sid
Keeping a very cheap Crosby doesn’t slow down a rebuild .
It helps expedite the rebound - since he makes people better around him .
But yes it’s crazy talk to say “let’s dump these top draft picks we hit on “ so maybe we can beat the odds again by being so historically incompetent, again - at the right time !”
Well one thing that has gone understated, is while Ray Shero did trade most of our #1 picks, he managed to draft Guentzel, Murray, Jarry, Rust, Sundstrom, Kuhnackl, Wilson, etc.....with draft picks outside of rd 1. So they acquired 1st rd production outside of the picks. While Rutherford made some great trades, his drafts were horrendous.
The Pens are getting boat raced worse than the Browns. If it wasn't for Jarry they could be down 5-0 already.
Side Note.
3 on 3 overtime is NOT HOCKEY. It's a side show.
3 on 3 overtime is NOT HOCKEY. It's a side show.
Seriously, the point system in the NHL is flawed.
Penguins are going to miss the playoffs again because of OT rules.
Just go back to 5 on 5 for 5 minutes. winner gets 2 , loser none.
Ok, then shootout... No best of 3.... its whoever wins the round first.
Penguins are going to miss the playoffs again because of OT rules.
Just go back to 5 on 5 for 5 minutes. winner gets 2 , loser none.
Ok, then shootout... No best of 3.... its whoever wins the round first.
In the old old days, which I can unfortunately remember quite well, the adage was win at home, tie on the road.
And way too many teams played that way, which frequently made the end of games really boring as one team did everything it could to suck the life out of the game.
I believe this translates to their lack of power play success, but it is amazing just how poorly the Pens do 3 on 3. I am tired of this constant search for a highlight reel goal. At this point, 3 on 3 I would rather see O'Connor out their with Sid than Jake. You need someone willing to go to the net with speed. I mean they aren't even challenging goalies at 3 on 3.
