OT: MLB

[Fk_Pitt]

Things are about to get interesting. Well, for everyone outside of Pittsburgh of course. I was out of breath just watching this. For guys like me who haven’t been paying attention, this looks to me like offenses are going to be forcing opponents into their bullpens sooner and the implementation of this rule will make the game more fun in many ways.

 

[FreeportPanther]

Plus, ending infield shifting too.
Baseball has to do something to speed up and stop being glorified HR derby.

 

[wbrpanther]

Plus, ending infield shifting too.
Baseball has to do something to speed up and stop being glorified HR derby.

Love the pitch clock. Hate telling players where they have to play defensively.

 

[FreeportPanther]

Love the pitch clock. Hate telling players where they have to play defensively.

Yes, the shift is a two way street because half of the problem is on the batter.
If the defense abandons the left side of the infield, and the hitter doesn't take advantage of that, shame on him!

The trouble is no one settles for singles anymore. BA is so yesterday.
It's all about the HR today.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Looks like the catcher could dilly daddle a bit to buy his pitcher some time.

I guess we'll see how this plays out. Baseball had the uniqueness of being the only sport not to play to a clock. If this shaves 10-15 minutes off the average game length, is it worth it? I feel like the time will be less material than people think and it's those commercials in between every half inning that are really to blame.

Put me down as indifferent on this for now. It certainly seems to pick up the intensity a bit. In the age of short attention spans, that should help.

 

[FreeportPanther]

Looks like the catcher could dilly daddle a bit to buy his pitcher some time.

I guess we'll see how this plays out. Baseball had the uniqueness of being the only sport not to play to a clock. If this shaves 10-15 minutes off the average game length, is it worth it? I feel like the time will be less material than people think and it's those commercials in between every half inning that are really to blame.

Put me down as indifferent on this for now. It certain seems to pick up the intensity a bit. In the age of short attention spans, that should help.

Probably has more to do with how BORING baseball is during all this non activity time.
They already limited trips to the mound, now they have to get after adjusting batting gloves after every pitch! So much about baseball is just down time.
And when beer costs $9.00/can it's hard to kill 4 hours at a baseball game!

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Probably has more to do with how BORING baseball is during all this non activity time.
They already limited trips to the mound, now they have to get after adjusting batting gloves after every pitch! So much about baseball is just down time.
And when beer costs $9.00/can it's hard to kill 4 hours at a baseball game!

My idea has always been 6 innings of 5 outs per. It would incentivize small ball/putting the ball in play more, because you could actually string some runs together the old-fashioned way. And then it also gets rid of a lot (well, 1/3) of those annoying field changes. Obviously there is ad revenue to be had in those times, but half the Pirates' commercials seem to be about the Pirates anyway. I'm sure that applies to most teams for the games on local programming.

It will obviously never happen, but the rules are so arbitrary anyway that I don't see why not.

Every sport has evolved into a game of mosts. NFL is all about the shots downfield. Baseball is all about homeruns. Basketball is largely 3-pointers. It kind of feels like when WWF went from these well-choreographed, believable matches to just 15 minutes of highlight reel stuff every time. It's cool for a while, but then it loses its luster.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Plus, ending infield shifting too.
Baseball has to do something to speed up and stop being glorified HR derby.

Pitch clock is awesome. Everyone's been saying that was needed for years. As for the infield shift, I have seen a leaked document that teams are going to line up like this vs a lefty:

3B - playing SA
SS - playing on the correct side of 2B but close to the bag
2B - somewhat normal
LF - playing short RF/deep 2nd base

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Yes, the shift is a two way street because half of the problem is on the batter.
If the defense abandons the left side of the infield, and the hitter doesn't take advantage of that, shame on him!

The trouble is no one settles for singles anymore. BA is so yesterday.
It's all about the HR today.

What kind of batting averages would guys like Rod Carew, Bill Madlock and George Brett have against the shifts.

 

[kma0043]

Have the tv time out at the end of innings instead of half inning. Just have each inning sponsored by someone and put the company logo by the score. That’s shave the time without altering the game, but that will take away a sprinkle of money so it’s an absurd idea.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

What kind of batting averages would guys like Rod Carew, Bill Madlock and George Brett have against the shifts.

Tony Gwynn might be hitting .900 if he got to bat against a shift every time.

 

[FreeportPanther]

Have the tv time out at the end of innings instead of half inning. Just have each inning sponsored by someone and put the company logo by the score. That’s shave the time without altering the game, but that will take away a sprinkle of money so it’s an absurd idea.

IDK, if baseball becomes so boring no one watches the broadcasts, how much will ad $$$ decline?

 

[wbrpanther]

Yes, the shift is a two way street because half of the problem is on the batter.
If the defense abandons the left side of the infield, and the hitter doesn't take advantage of that, shame on him!

The trouble is no one settles for singles anymore. BA is so yesterday.
It's all about the HR today.

Exactly. Too much trouble for the batter to actually learn how to hit.

 

[FreeportPanther]

Tony Gwynn might be hitting .900 if he got to bat against a shift every time.

But the analytics guys wouldn't be impressed because the WAR or some other metric would be below some imaginary line! LOL

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

But the analytics guys wouldn't be impressed because the WAR or some other metric would be below some imaginary line! LOL

I have fought this battle on here before. The overwhelming Pantherlair consensus is that it's impossible for a major leaguer to hit a ball where he wants to. Even though I could do it when I was 9 years old and we have 100 years worth of evidence of righties going the other way to advance a runner on second with no outs.

 

[Burgh15]

The magic number for any sports game for me is 2.5 hours. Commercials are the main issue, and that unfortunately won’t get fixed. I do like the idea of a pitch clock, but that clip made everything feel a little too rushed.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Can't wait until someone hits a Mazeroski-esque walk-off in the World Series only for it to be reviewed for when it left the pitcher's hand and instead become ball two.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

My idea has always been 6 innings of 5 outs per. It would incentivize small ball/putting the ball in play more, because you could actually string some runs together the old-fashioned way. And then it also gets rid of a lot (well, 1/3) of those annoying field changes. Obviously there is ad revenue to be had in those times, but half the Pirates' commercials seem to be about the Pirates anyway. I'm sure that applies to most teams for the games on local programming.

It will obviously never happen, but the rules are so arbitrary anyway that I don't see why not.

Every sport has evolved into a game of mosts. NFL is all about the shots downfield. Baseball is all about homeruns. Basketball is largely 3-pointers. It kind of feels like when WWF went from these well-choreographed, believable matches to just 15 minutes of highlight reel stuff every time. It's cool for a while, but then it loses its luster.

It’s the way Hollywood has gone too. Every action scene, car chase, fight scene is like the grand finale of a fireworks show. Seen one, seen them all. Call me when it’s over.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

The magic number for any sports game for me is 2.5 hours. Commercials are the main issue, and that unfortunately won’t get fixed. I do like the idea of a pitch clock, but that clip made everything feel a little too rushed.

College basketball and soccer have that going for them.

NFL is in infallible. No one complains about a 3 hour game, and because the game is so good, I don’t think anyone would care if they go 4 hours.

Watching football on the ACC network is challenging to watch though. Because it’s the same crap commercials over and again, it accentuates to the viewer how there are too many timeouts, breaks in the action, and commercials.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

College basketball and soccer have that going for them.

NFL is in infallible. No one complains about a 3 hour game, and because the game is so good, I don’t think anyone would care if they go 4 hours.

Watching football on the ACC network is challenging to watch though. Because it’s the same crap commercials over and again, it accentuates to the viewer how there are too many timeouts, breaks in the action, and commercials.

College football is ridiculous. I leave Heinz Field feeling like I've just been the protagonist in an epic saga sometimes, and I don't even play in the damn games.

And now they're talking about letting the clock run on incompletions, etc. Like, you don't have to go from 60 to 0: Just don't review so much shit, and don't stop the clock on first downs.

 

[sonofabit]

Tony Gwynn might be hitting .900 if he got to bat against a shift every time.

There wouldn’t be a shift for the greats. Metrics would tell ya they can hit any pitch anytime anywhere.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

There wouldn’t be a shift for the greats. Metrics would tell ya they can hit any pitch anytime anywhere.

Yeah, and there wouldn't be a shift for anyone if they could so much as lay an oppo bunt down the line.

 

[h2p_5150]

What kind of batting averages would guys like Rod Carew, Bill Madlock and George Brett have against the shifts.

That cuts both ways though. Back then guys came out of the bullpen tossing 90 MPH fastballs. These days every team has multiple relievers with 94 MPH sliders and 100 MPH heaters. Those guys would strike out a whole lot more than they did in their days.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

That cuts both ways though. Back then guys came out of the bullpen tossing 90 MPH fastballs. These days every team has multiple relievers with 94 MPH sliders and 100 MPH heaters. Those guys would strike out a whole lot more than they did in their days.

Well Josh Gibson hit a ball 800 feet. So I'm sure someone was throwing at least 160 mph before radar guns came along.

 

[Burgh15]

College football is ridiculous. I leave Heinz Field feeling like I've just been the protagonist in an epic saga sometimes, and I don't even play in the damn games.

And now they're talking about letting the clock run on incompletions, etc. Like, you don't have to go from 60 to 0: Just don't review so much shit, and don't stop the clock on first downs.

I have season tickets, but length of games would be the No. 1 reason I'd choose not to go. It feels like Pitt games push 4 hours more than they push 3.5 hours. Both are way too long.

 

[thom67]

in college football only stop clock for 1st downs last 2 minutes of both halfs
st

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

There wouldn’t be a shift for the greats. Metrics would tell ya they can hit any pitch anytime anywhere.

They weren't shifting the past couple of years against anyone who could reasonably put the ball in play to the opposite side. The guys who were getting shifted against were the guys who could or would only pull the ball because they were trying to hit home runs all the time.

And all banning the shift does is make it so that more often when a guy trying to hit a home run fails to do so he gets a hit anyway. So the idea that some people have that this is going to stop guys from trying to hit home runs all the time is just dumb. They have actually INCREASED the incentive for guys to be pull happy and go for home runs, because they have removed some percentage of the downside.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

They weren't shifting the past couple of years against anyone who could reasonably put the ball in play to the opposite side. The guys who were getting shifted against were the guys who could or would only pull the ball because they were trying to hit home runs all the time.

And all banning the shift does is make it so that more often when a guy trying to hit a home run fails to do so he gets a hit anyway. So the idea that some people have that this is going to stop guys from trying to hit home runs all the time is just dumb. They have actually INCREASED the incentive for guys to be pull happy and go for home runs, because they have removed some percentage of the downside.

Matt Carpenter said the shifts caused him to change his entire approach and basically just try to hit over them (i.e. home runs). When he was first on everyone's radar in 2013, he was a high average guy who didn't hit many jacks. Then he began striking out more, hitting more home runs, and hitting for a lower average.

Not saying one guy makes it fact, but I have to believe that pull hitters might not be so concerned with launch angle if they know they can lay into one and still end up with a single or double if they barrel it to their dominant side with a more level swing.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Matt Carpenter said the shifts caused him to change his entire approach and basically just try to hit over them (i.e. home runs). When he was first on everyone's radar in 2013, he was a high average guy who didn't hit many jacks. Then he began striking out more, hitting more home runs, and hitting for a lower average.

Not saying one guy makes it fact, but I have to believe that pull hitters might not be so concerned with launch angle if they know they can lay into one and still end up with a single or double if they barrel it to their dominant side with a more level swing.

But why would you give up the home runs when you are going to get more singles and doubles even if you still try to hit home runs?

Guys switch to trying to hit more home runs because that's what the teams want and that's what the teams pay for. There is nothing about eliminating shifts that will make home runs less valuable. As long as that's what gets you paid, that's what people are going to try to do.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

BTW, I haven't seen any video of it yet, but speaking of rule changes, in a game this afternoon. bases loaded, 6-6, two outs. The batter thinks he has just drawn ball four for a literal walk off win. Instead the umpire rules that he was not in the box and ready in the required time, instead of ball four it's strike three, and the game ends in a 6-6 tie.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

That cuts both ways though. Back then guys came out of the bullpen tossing 90 MPH fastballs. These days every team has multiple relievers with 94 MPH sliders and 100 MPH heaters. Those guys would strike out a whole lot more than they did in their days.

That's a great point.

 

[HailToPitt725]

I love the rule. However, what I don’t love is a game ending because of a situation today where the batter “struck out” due to a pitch clock violation. Goes against the spirit of the rule. Hopefully they can find a compromise for instances like that (i.e., treat the third strike as a foul?).

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

BTW, I haven't seen any video of it yet, but speaking of rule changes, in a game this afternoon. bases loaded, 6-6, two outs. The batter thinks he has just drawn ball four for a literal walk off win. Instead the umpire rules that he was not in the box and ready in the required time, instead of ball four it's strike three, and the game ends in a 6-6 tie.

Wow.

 

[jtownknowitall]

The problem with the shift is you can throw left handed hitters out from short right field. You can’t throw right handed hitters out from short left field. If you want to keep the shift then left handed hitters should be able to run to third base instead of first.

 

[Ski11585]

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

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So just eyeballing it: Looks like about a half hour was shaved off. Significant if it holds. But I'm skeptical. For one, did they all play 9 innings? And then are the innings changes/pitching changes/etc. as drawn out in Spring games? And then of course there were plenty of extra inning games factoring into that 3:07 number.

But if it does indeed knock the games down to the 2.5 hour mark then that's good.

 

[HOF Coach]

 

[Fk_Pitt]

View embedded media

This isn’t a travesty at all. Hopefully there’s enough tough love exhibited during the exhibition season and lessons to be learned. By the time April rolls around, everyone will be better off for it.

 

[happjack]

So just eyeballing it: Looks like about a half hour was shaved off. Significant if it holds. But I'm skeptical. For one, did they all play 9 innings? And then are the innings changes/pitching changes/etc. as drawn out in Spring games? And then of course there were plenty of extra inning games factoring into that 3:07 number.

But if it does indeed knock the games down to the 2.5 hour mark then that's good.

This, also do spring training games have the same amount of commercial time as regular season games?

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

View embedded media

I know TV and commercials have alot to do with it. But I am still amazed Game 7 of the 1960 World Series which finished 10-9 and had like 5 pitching changes went 2:20 hours. Game 7 Pirates/Orioles was like 2:15.

The every pitch, every inning drama and staredowns have become ridiculous.

In the 70's and early 80's there was a player (Mike Hargrave?) who would go on to be a long time manager was dubbed "the human rain delay" he would take so long to get set in the box. Now he would be normal.