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OT: Montreal Rays

CaptainMurphy

CaptainMurphy

Assistant Coach
Dec 10, 2004
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So the Rays have been given the go ahead to explore splitting their season between Montreal and Tampa with both cities getting new stadiums. I would imagine fan support will be much stronger in Montreal given how much people up there still love the Expos. Fan support sucked in the 90s but that was largely due to their ownership and the strike.

I think playing a month in Tampa (to avoid early spring weather in Quebec) with the rest of the season in Montreal being the best eventual outcome for Tampa. Otherwise I think this team is 100% in Montreal within 5 years.
 
well for them to be full time in Canada they need an indoor stadium in Montreal thatch for sure, and they are probably destined to go there full time, they will get more people to the stadium and raise pay roll.
 
That's the first I've heard of this. Seems bizarre. Does this men that MLB considers that it made a mistake pulling out of Montreal in the first place?
 
No chance this happens. Probably just MLB's idea to get one of the two cities to build a new stadium because there's zero percent chance both cities will agree to this type of deal. Plus, what player wants to live in two different cities during the season, let alone two cities in two different countries.
 
Burgh15 said:
No chance this happens. Probably just MLB's idea to get one of the two cities to build a new stadium because there's zero percent chance both cities will agree to this type of deal. Plus, what player wants to live in two different cities during the season, let alone two cities in two different countries.
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Yeah, I think it's likely going to go to whoever builds a new stadium first. I hope its Montreal as it's a much more interesting summer destination and a massive metro. Besides, they'd fit well in the AL East.

Still, it's a pretty crazy idea like when the Expos played games in Puerto Rico.
 
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Tampa ownership is pissed that they can't get anyone in the Tampa area to build them a new stadium, so they have hatched a plan that would require TWO different cities to build them TWO stadiums, each of which will only be used for a partial season. Brilliant!

This is all a ruse. What they want is to scare the people in Tampa into giving them a stadium. If they can't get that but they can get the people in Montreal to build them one then they will say "hey, we really want to stay in Tampa but they won't give us a stadium and Montreal will so we are moving there."

They'll be lying, at least about that staying in Tampa part, but that's what they'll say.
 
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This baseball thing just isn't going to work out in Tampa/St. Pete. The fans have proven over a long period of time that they arent going to go to the games. They even closed the upper deck this season. They are never building a stadium so I don't know why they dont just move the team to some city who will support the team like down the I4 in Orlando (much better sports city), Nashville, Charlotte, etc. There are many cities where an MLB franchise would be SRO like every game.
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
This baseball thing just isn't going to work out in Tampa/St. Pete. The fans have proven over a long period of time that they arent going to go to the games. They even closed the upper deck this season. They are never building a stadium so I don't know why they dont just move the team to some city who will support the team like down the I4 in Orlando (much better sports city), Nashville, Charlotte, etc. There are many cities where an MLB franchise would be SRO like every game.
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Montreal is a better baseball market than those other cities.
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
There are many cities where an MLB franchise would be SRO like every game.
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No, there really aren't. Which is why it's getting harder for teams to coerce cities to give them stadiums. Montreal is probably the best choice, and the Expos never drew well in Montreal. After Montreal you are talking about places that are, for the most part, mid-sized or smaller markets. Orlando is the 18th largest television market, and is closer in size to Pittsburgh than it is to the top 12. Charlotte is the 22 ranked market, one spot above Pittsburgh. Nashville is the 29 ranked market, smaller than Pittsburgh. If a team in Pittsburgh has trouble competing with big market money what do you suppose is going to happen in places that are similarly or smaller sized markets?

As with most new franchises those teams would draw reasonably well at first, but if they put a few losing season is a row together they are going to be in the same situation that small market teams are in now.
 
Joe the Panther Fan said:
No, there really aren't. Which is why it's getting harder for teams to coerce cities to give them stadiums. Montreal is probably the best choice, and the Expos never drew well in Montreal. After Montreal you are talking about places that are, for the most part, mid-sized or smaller markets. Orlando is the 18th largest television market, and is closer in size to Pittsburgh than it is to the top 12. Charlotte is the 22 ranked market, one spot above Pittsburgh. Nashville is the 29 ranked market, smaller than Pittsburgh. If a team in Pittsburgh has trouble competing with big market money what do you suppose is going to happen in places that are similarly or smaller sized markets?

As with most new franchises those teams would draw reasonably well at first, but if they put a few losing season is a row together they are going to be in the same situation that small market teams are in now.
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Smaller sports-crazed cities like Louisville, Salt Lake City, Portland, Omaha , and OKC would sell-out every night. Maybe they should look at these types of cities. Cities with 0 or 1 major pro teams.
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
Smaller sports-crazed cities like Louisville, Salt Lake City, Portland, Omaha , and OKC would sell-out every night. Maybe they should look at these types of cities. Cities with 0 or 1 major pro teams.
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They would sell out every night if they build a 20,000 seat stadium to artificially make tickets scarce. If those places built a 40,000 seat or larger stadium they are simply not anywhere close to SRO in a large majority of their games.

Unfortunately for places like that, MLB has no interest in cities that would only be building 20,000 seat stadiums and that don't move the television needle. And quite frankly, no one with the money to own a team would be interested either.
 
Joe the Panther Fan said:
They would sell out every night if they build a 20,000 seat stadium to artificially make tickets scarce. If those places built a 40,000 seat or larger stadium they are simply not anywhere close to SRO in a large majority of their games.

Unfortunately for places like that, MLB has no interest in cities that would only be building 20,000 seat stadiums and that don't move the television needle. And quite frankly, no one with the money to own a team would be interested either.
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Well, Tampa/St Pete has to be one of the worst MLB markets in the nation. I dont know why their owner doesnt make a few cities compete for them by offering a free stadium. I mean, seriously, Omaha is obsessed with sports. I get that it's not a big market but I really think they'd have one of the highest attendance in the league
 
TempleBAPittMPA said:
That's the first I've heard of this. Seems bizarre. Does this men that MLB considers that it made a mistake pulling out of Montreal in the first place?
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Problem for Montreal is they are in Canada. Seriously it's a major issue, the exchange rate is 75/100 and the tax rate is higher than most of the US. Also many athletes would prefer to play in the us. Heck even the Canadian hockey teams have struggled to compete
 
revampedpanthers said:
Problem for Montreal is they are in Canada. Seriously it's a major issue, the exchange rate is 75/100 and the tax rate is higher than most of the US. Also many athletes would prefer to play in the us. Heck even the Canadian hockey teams have struggled to compete
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Toronto has done OK over the last decade.

I think Montreal can regularly fill a nice stadium in the right location, somewhere around the size of PNC. Olympic Stadium was a dump from day one and not in the best location. But Montreal is a gorgeous city and one that would probably draw a decent amount of visiting fans.
 
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CaptainMurphy said:
Toronto has done OK over the last decade.

I think Montreal can regularly fill a nice stadium in the right location, somewhere around the size of PNC. Olympic Stadium was a dump from day one and not in the best location. But Montreal is a gorgeous city and one that would probably draw a decent amount of visiting fans.
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I've been to Montreal twice; many years ago. If memory serves me, Olympic Stadium was not near downtown. I remember driving quite a ways from my hotel to see it.

I would think a "PNC" type park closer to the city center would be a much better draw. The problem is that I don't know how easy it would be to build a park with a large footprint in downtown Montreal.
 
RaleighPittFan said:
I've been to Montreal twice; many years ago. If memory serves me, Olympic Stadium was not near downtown. I remember driving quite a ways from my hotel to see it.

I would think a "PNC" type park closer to the city center would be a much better draw. The problem is that I don't know how easy it would be to build a park with a large footprint in downtown Montreal.
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When I was there, I remember there being some buildable land near Old Town and the docks (surface parking, etc...). Their subway system is also pretty awesome.
 
KennyTheKangaroo said:
It would be hard. It is a dense city
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Main part of the city is on an island. Montreal has a rich baseball history and deserves a second chance. I think Roberto played there for a bit. I think a natural rivalry with Toronto would help them acclimate to the AL East.
 
RaleighPittFan said:
The problem is that I don't know how easy it would be to build a park with a large footprint in downtown Montreal.
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The son of the guy who used to own the Expos has a plan for a stadium on some land that either he owns or is public land. However I do not think that he has come up with a plan to actually pay for it (a stadium) yet, which is a pretty big issue.
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
I mean, seriously, Omaha is obsessed with sports. I get that it's not a big market but I really think they'd have one of the highest attendance in the league
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Yes, Omaha is the answer. Omaha, the 74th largest media market in the country. To put that into perspective for people, that makes the Omaha market a little bit smaller than the 70th largest media market in the country, Huntington/Charleston West Virginia. Although baseball would never succeed in that market, what with the powerhouse Marshall Thundering Herd dominating the marketplace.

The notion that Omaha would have one of the highest attendances in the league if they had a major league baseball team is one of the craziest thoughts you've ever come up with. Let's put this into perspective. Lets call "one of the highest attendances" 4th or 5th in the league. Currently that would be right around 37,000 people per game. That would mean that one out of every 11 people in the media market would be going to baseball games 81 times per season. If, for instance, the Pirates could average that great a "participation rate" they'd average right around 100,000 fans per game. The Mets and Yankees would be close to 700,000 fans per game, the Dodgers at 500,000. Sounds about right, doesn't it?

o_O
 
Joe the Panther Fan said:
Yes, Omaha is the answer. Omaha, the 74th largest media market in the country. To put that into perspective for people, that makes the Omaha market a little bit smaller than the 70th largest media market in the country, Huntington/Charleston West Virginia. Although baseball would never succeed in that market, what with the powerhouse Marshall Thundering Herd dominating the marketplace.

The notion that Omaha would have one of the highest attendances in the league if they had a major league baseball team is one of the craziest thoughts you've ever come up with. Let's put this into perspective. Lets call "one of the highest attendances" 4th or 5th in the league. Currently that would be right around 37,000 people per game. That would mean that one out of every 11 people in the media market would be going to baseball games 81 times per season. If, for instance, the Pirates could average that great a "participation rate" they'd average right around 100,000 fans per game. The Mets and Yankees would be close to 700,000 fans per game, the Dodgers at 500,000. Sounds about right, doesn't it?

o_O
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In that case stick it on City Island in Harrisburg and we're all set.
 
The Brooklyn Dodgers played 7 games in Jersey City, NJ Roosevelt Stadium in 1956-57 while trying to work a stadium deal to replace beloved but crumbling Ebbets Field. I think it was 7 games each year. Of course, all the while Dodger owner Walter O'Malley was canoodling with Los Angeles. You know what happened.

MLB does not like to move franchises. Owners are more interested in expansion, because they can soak the new owners with entry fees. And there is no bad PR from abandoning a fan base.

I'd like to see the Rays move to Montreal.
 
Joe the Panther Fan said:
Yes, Omaha is the answer. Omaha, the 74th largest media market in the country. To put that into perspective for people, that makes the Omaha market a little bit smaller than the 70th largest media market in the country, Huntington/Charleston West Virginia. Although baseball would never succeed in that market, what with the powerhouse Marshall Thundering Herd dominating the marketplace.

The notion that Omaha would have one of the highest attendances in the league if they had a major league baseball team is one of the craziest thoughts you've ever come up with. Let's put this into perspective. Lets call "one of the highest attendances" 4th or 5th in the league. Currently that would be right around 37,000 people per game. That would mean that one out of every 11 people in the media market would be going to baseball games 81 times per season. If, for instance, the Pirates could average that great a "participation rate" they'd average right around 100,000 fans per game. The Mets and Yankees would be close to 700,000 fans per game, the Dodgers at 500,000. Sounds about right, doesn't it?

o_O
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Yea, that sounds about right. People in Omaha love sports and there is nothing to do there.
 
recruitsreadtheseboards said:
Really? I think it is just two of the preeminent strip club cities in North America finally figuring out how to join forces.
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imagine if your team is actually doing good then july 4th, they just leave and finish the season in Canada? Lol. that would suck.

of course as a pirates fan, i'd actually prefer this. the only way this is a good thing is if they bring back the old expo unis. I loved those back in the day..
 
I was in Toronto all week. Toronto is what, the 6th largest metro area in North America now? Huge. I mean huge. You are going through "suburbs" with populations of "720,000", "500,000", "325,000" (Pittsburgh, the city's population is 325,000) and has a metro population like 6.7 million. I was having dinner in the CN tower looking down at Rogers Centre and it is no more filled than PNC Park is on a Wednesday night. And it was a beautiful night.

People aren't going to baseball games much. The Jays (who admittedly suck) are down 33% from last year, which were down 27% from the year before. 6.7 million people? You mean you can't get 0.5% of the local population (and this doesn't include other areas of Ontario or Eastern Canada who doesn't have a baseball team) to go to a game and average at least 33,000?

All of this crap is nothing more than owners extortion of taxpayers for a better revenue generating stadium and tax abatements. Because lord knows, a new stadium, a better stadium is not the precursor to on the field success. It is for attendance, temporarily........
 
recruitsreadtheseboards said:
I was in Toronto all week. Toronto is what, the 6th largest metro area in North America now? Huge. I mean huge. You are going through "suburbs" with populations of "720,000", "500,000", "325,000" (Pittsburgh, the city's population is 325,000) and has a metro population like 6.7 million. I was having dinner in the CN tower looking down at Rogers Centre and it is no more filled than PNC Park is on a Wednesday night. And it was a beautiful night.

People aren't going to baseball games much. The Jays (who admittedly suck) are down 33% from last year, which were down 27% from the year before. 6.7 million people? You mean you can't get 0.5% of the local population (and this doesn't include other areas of Ontario or Eastern Canada who doesn't have a baseball team) to go to a game and average at least 33,000?

All of this crap is nothing more than owners extortion of taxpayers for a better revenue generating stadium and tax abatements. Because lord knows, a new stadium, a better stadium is not the precursor to on the field success. It is for attendance, temporarily........
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It's a Wednesday night and the team stinks, no matter the city the crowd will be small. When the Jays had a good team they drew over 3 million in both 2016 & 2017.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/TOR/attend.shtml
 
recruitsreadtheseboards said:
I was in Toronto all week. Toronto is what, the 6th largest metro area in North America now? Huge. I mean huge. You are going through "suburbs" with populations of "720,000", "500,000", "325,000" (Pittsburgh, the city's population is 325,000) and has a metro population like 6.7 million. I was having dinner in the CN tower looking down at Rogers Centre and it is no more filled than PNC Park is on a Wednesday night. And it was a beautiful night.

People aren't going to baseball games much. The Jays (who admittedly suck) are down 33% from last year, which were down 27% from the year before. 6.7 million people? You mean you can't get 0.5% of the local population (and this doesn't include other areas of Ontario or Eastern Canada who doesn't have a baseball team) to go to a game and average at least 33,000?

All of this crap is nothing more than owners extortion of taxpayers for a better revenue generating stadium and tax abatements. Because lord knows, a new stadium, a better stadium is not the precursor to on the field success. It is for attendance, temporarily........
Click to expand...

Crap product in a terrible baseball venue. The Phillies had a tough time getting people to the Vet in the 90s for the same reason. Baseball isn't the most fun to watch, especially if the team is struggling. Wonder what the Pirates would be drawing if they were back in 3 Rivers as opposed to PNC.
 
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