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OT: NFL botched ending of DAL/DET

I am certain this is not the first time you have blamed the refs for an outcome you did not want.


And I am certain that you have no idea what you are talking about, with this just being the latest example.

I didn't care, not even one little bit, who won that game. Heck, I don't even have any Cowboys or Lions players on my fantasy team. I cared so much about that game that I didn't even turn it on television until half way through the 4th quarter.

None of which, of course, has anything to do with the refs screwing it up.
 
Horrible mistake, but the more I think about it, the Lions played with fire.

They had #68 and another lineman near the ref. Then #70 runs over there just to “tap #68 and bring him back to the huddle”. That served no purpose other than to flash a third lineman near the ref, and create confusion to the Cowboys.

That’s why Allen got confused.

I also don’t know what protocol is if you hear them announce the wrong number. It’s likely not even a situation ever accounted for.

Also…in fairness…the Cowboys didn’t get a chance to hear the right number. They may have reacted differently to the pass route.

So sure - it’s a mistake from a crew that has made a bunch. Also, I feel for the Lions because they were celdbrating for a full 7 or 8 seconds before the flag was dropped. But there were a few layers to it.
 
I thought the whole point of telling the ref who is eligible was to enable the ref to alert the defense to the fact that the player was eligible. So how can they use deception, since the ref has to tell the defense who is eligible? They are not trying to confuse the ref, and the ref has to inform the defense.
It is, but remember the D is subbing players in and out, calling their alignments, and so on, inside a loud ass stadium with fans cheering and music blaring, not everyone on defense might hear it, that’s why the play works once and awhile, its why the Lions did what they did.
 
Bottom line is 68 Decker told the ref he was the eligible player. 70 Skipper did not report as eligible. Everything that happened after that is on the ref.
There were 2 other players over there also reporting as eligible along with 68 Decker, so regardless of what Decker said it was confusing for the ref.
 
There were 2 other players over there also reporting as eligible along with 68 Decker, so regardless of what Decker said it was confusing for the ref.


Just because there were two other players nearby, or, really, one nearby and one running onto the field, that doesn't mean that they were all reporting as eligible.

Which is kind of the point. The ref just assumed that the guy who was reporting was the same guy who had reported previously, when it was not.
 
Just because there were two other players nearby, or, really, one nearby and one running onto the field, that doesn't mean that they were all reporting as eligible.

Which is kind of the point. The ref just assumed that the guy who was reporting was the same guy who had reported previously, when it was not.
The only assumption being made is by you.
 
The only assumption being made is by you.
There is no reason for a linemen to approach the ref other than to report that he is an eligible receiver. If #70 wasn't reporting as eligible, he wouldn't go over to the ref.
 
There were 2 other players over there also reporting as eligible along with 68 Decker, so regardless of what Decker said it was confusing for the ref.
If it was confusing to the ref, it is his job to straighten out the situation. It is completely on him, however you want to look at it.
 
There were 2 other players over there also reporting as eligible along with 68 Decker, so regardless of what Decker said it was confusing for the ref.
Only one player can report as eligible by league rules. The involved players and Campbell were all adamant that it was 68 Decker and were beyond furious that the ref botched the call. 68 Decker, the LEFT tackle, was on the RIGHT side of the field talking to the ref before 70 Skipper ran onto the field. 1+1=2. The ref F’d up badly.
 
There is no reason for a linemen to approach the ref other than to report that he is an eligible receiver. If #70 wasn't reporting as eligible, he wouldn't go over to the ref.
70 didn’t approach the ref. 68 did. 70 ran into the field while 68 was talking to the ref and just as the ref turned to talk to the defense.
 
70 didn’t approach the ref. 68 did. 70 ran into the field while 68 was talking to the ref and just as the ref turned to talk to the defense.
Look at the video. #70 runs straight to the ref. It was obvious #70 got the ref's attention, #68 didn't say anything to get the ref's attention because he was lurking with #58. Once #70 gets within close proximity to the ref, the ref points at #70 signifying that #70 reported to him as eligible. The ref then goes over the deliver the message to the Cowboys. If #70 is not reporting as eligible, then he should be running over to the huddle, not the ref.
 
Look at the video. #70 runs straight to the ref. It was obvious #70 got the ref's attention, #68 didn't say anything to get the ref's attention because he was lurking with #58. Once #70 gets within close proximity to the ref, the ref points at #70 signifying that #70 reported to him as eligible. The ref then goes over the deliver the message to the Cowboys. If #70 is not reporting as eligible, then he should be running over to the huddle, not the ref.
I’ve looked at it a bunch of times and have watched it with analysts breaking it down. Everyone in an America but you and jive turkey saw the same thing.

What was the left tackle 68 doing on the right side talking to the ref? Discussing the weather? His family? In all honesty, do you not see him speaking directly to the ref? As he said he did when he reported as eligible?

 
I’ve looked at it a bunch of times and have watched it with analysts breaking it down. Everyone in an America but you and jive turkey saw the same thing.

What was the left tackle 68 doing on the right side talking to the ref? Discussing the weather? His family? In all honesty, do you not see him speaking directly to the ref? As he said he did when he reported as eligible?

For starters, you had 3 lineman approach the official. #70 who reported as eligible on past plays runs to the official (why run to the ref if you are not reporting as eligible?) and tells him something. I assume he is telling him he is eligible because the ref points to him and walks over to Dallas to report.

In your scenario, the ref (on his own) declares #70 eligible without any communication, points to him, and informs Dallas. This all takes place with Detroit not correcting the ref as well. It also does not explain why two other players approached the ref. Clearly, Detroit was trying to confuse the situation....which they were successful at doing.
 
For starters, you had 3 lineman approach the official. #70 who reported as eligible on past plays runs to the official (why run to the ref if you are not reporting as eligible?) and tells him something. I assume he is telling him he is eligible because the ref points to him and walks over to Dallas to report.

In your scenario, the ref (on his own) declares #70 eligible without any communication, points to him, and informs Dallas. This all takes place with Detroit not correcting the ref as well. It also does not explain why two other players approached the ref. Clearly, Detroit was trying to confuse the situation....which they were successful at doing.
Everyone messed up. There is no deception possible here. The ref tells the defence who reported as eligible. For Detroit to send multiple players accomplishes nothing except what actually happened. Dallas didn't need to cover that receiver, as he hadn't been announced by the ref. Detroit deceived themselves.
 
I get the playoff implications make this missed call so important.

But in a world where refs are going to not get everything right, the play where a team is purposely sending a bunch of stuff at the ref to carry out a deception, seems like the missed call to get least upset about.

This was essentially a magic act that Detroit did. And the ref paid too much attention to what the one hand was doing, and not enough to the other.

That sucks, but if this call was the only kind of call the refs missed, everybody would gladly take that.
 
It is hilarious that someone making as many assumptions as you are can post something like
It is hilarious that someone making as many assumptions as you are can post something like that.
the only point I assumed is that the ref designated #70 as eligible because he pointed to him as he walked up to the ref and then reported it to Dallas. I think that is reasonable since the Ref reiterated the scenario when he called the penalty.
 
If #70 did not report as he states, then he lined up next to #89 as an eligible receiving tackle and thus is an illegal formation.

NFL rules stated this today. Detroit coach tried to win a game by confusing officials and opponents in using an illegal formation and it backfired.

And I hate the Cryboys...lol
 
If #70 did not report as he states, then he lined up next to #89 as an eligible receiving tackle and thus is an illegal formation.

NFL rules stated this today. Detroit coach tried to win a game by confusing officials and opponents in using an illegal formation and it backfired.

And I hate the Cryboys...lol


Actually what the NFL did today was all but admit that the refs screwed it up, and they put the blame on the Lions for confusing the ref.

As if it isn't a part of the refs job to make sure that he knows what is going on.
 
"the only point I assumed is that the ref designated #70 as eligible because he pointed to him as he walked up to the ref and then reported it to Dallas. I think that is reasonable since the Ref reiterated the scenario when he called the penalty."


Right. You are assuming that the refs story is 100% accurate, even though the video contradicts the refs story.
 
Actually what the NFL did today was all but admit that the refs screwed it up, and they put the blame on the Lions for confusing the ref.

As if it isn't a part of the refs job to make sure that he knows what is going on.
Exactly. If the ref is confused, it is on him to get the situation straight. Refs do this all of the time, when they confer with each other over calls.
 
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Exactly. If the ref is confused, it is on him to get the situation straight. Refs do this all of the time, when they confer with each other over calls.
No it's not, he's the ref. If you do not report correctly, that's on you.
 
Actually what the NFL did today was all but admit that the refs screwed it up, and they put the blame on the Lions for confusing the ref.

As if it isn't a part of the refs job to make sure that he knows what is going on.
The Lions deserve some of the blame, they created the situation that caused the confusion.
 
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No it's not, he's the ref. If you do not report correctly, that's on you.
And remember, the refs are briefed before each game, about any unusual plays that a team might run. so they knew that Detroit had a play with that lineman being an eligible receiver. It is in more of a gaff that they botched it. Despite your conspiracy theory.
 
And remember, the refs are briefed before each game, about any unusual plays that a team might run. so they knew that Detroit had a play with that lineman being an eligible receiver. It is in more of a gaff that they botched it. Despite your conspiracy theory.
Yes...they did that a few plays during the game and #70 was the eligible receiver in those cases. This is why people are saying the Detroit intentionally tried to deceive the refs.
 
Yes...they did that a few plays during the game and #70 was the eligible receiver in those cases. This is why people are saying the Detroit intentionally tried to deceive the refs.
They didn't try to deceive the refs, they tried to deceive Dallas and it backfired.
 
It's not weird to have multiple guys talking to the ref. Not weird for a coach to talk about situations with the official before the game. Refs make mistakes. This was just a really bad one.

The whole act of reporting as eligible has always been weird. There should be an easier way to accomplish this but it's probably dumb to try to fix something that broke for just one play.

By the way, that crew is working the Steeler game on Sunday.
 
NFL and football in general, their biggest problem is TOO MANY RULES, REVIEWS, STOPPAGES AND FLAGS. What they should do is have a committee with a mandate to eliminate at least 50% of the rules, then make it a point of emphasis to only throw the flag if it's so obvious that everyone can see it without slow motion replay. So, throw as few flags as humanly possible, as for review, minimize that too, have no challenges, just have a ref watching the game whose job it is to review only things that are 100% obvious without multiple angles or slow motion, that are determinable within 60 seconds, because it's so obviously visible.
 
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NFL and football in general, their biggest problem is TOO MANY RULES, REVIEWS, STOPPAGES AND FLAGS. What they should do is have a committee with a mandate to eliminate at least 50% of the rules, then make it a point of emphasis to only throw the flag if it's so obvious that everyone can see it without slow motion replay. So, throw as few flags as humanly possible, as for review, minimize that too, have no challenges, just have a ref watching the game whose job it is to review only things that are 100% obvious without multiple angles or slow motion, that are determinable within 60 seconds, because it's so obviously visible.
Well said......this is how every sport should be played. No wonder less young people are choosing to be refs, the torment from fans and complexity of the game are frustrating.
 
The whole act of reporting as eligible has always been weird. There should be an easier way to accomplish this but it's probably dumb to try to fix something that broke for just one play.
LOL, I was trying to explain this to my wife right after this shit show happened and they were going on about it after the game. She was asking questions like, why don't they all report as eligible every play, and what was 58 doing over there. It devolved into well the ineligible receiver is just stupid.... which I kind of agree with. Do they really need that rule?
 
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LOL, I was trying to explain this to my wife right after this shit show happened and they were going on about it after the game. She was asking questions like, why don't they all report as eligible every play, and what was 58 doing over there. It devolved into well the ineligible receiver is just stupid.... which I kind of agree with. Do they really need that rule?
Is football the only sport where a penalty can happen due a number a player is wearing?
 
There is no reason for a linemen to approach the ref other than to report that he is an eligible receiver. If #70 wasn't reporting as eligible, he wouldn't go over to the ref.
You might want to run that by Dan Campbell since he has the reason and has stated such....O, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive! *

*Walter Scott (unlike the Harvard chick, I footnote)
 
Well said......this is how every sport should be played. No wonder less young people are choosing to be refs, the torment from fans and complexity of the game are frustrating.
Another thing I forgot to add, if they did eliminate 50% of the rules, NOBODY WOULD NOTICE OR COMPLAIN.
 
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NFL is anal and insane over RULES, is there any other sports that has a committee that adds and changes rules EVERY YEAR? Most sports a rule change or an added rule is a big deal, because it usually only happens like every 50 years.
 
Is football the only sport where a penalty can happen due a number a player is wearing?
The NFL has a set of numbers that aren't considered eligible. That's why they do this. It's important for the official to determine the if the alignment is legal and because at some point, someone definitely pulled a fast one using a loophole in the rules. So far as other sports, there is a lot made over numbers in volleyball because alignment is critical according to how players are rotating. If you think the NFL rule is murky, you'd love the way it's inconsistently applied in volleyball. We saw a violation that was not called in the NC game a few weeks ago. Didn't affect the outcome but it did get called in a pretty big state playoff game this year.
 
Do they really need that rule?
Yes? Kind of like, why do then have a rule about running 15 players onto the field for a punt or why do they have a rule about injuries delaying the game. Someone exploited it.

I'll be honest, the easiest fix would be for eligible players to raise their arm above their head, like a fair catch, prior to coming set. We did this in a flag football league where one lineman would be considered eligible and there were never any issues. Would look a little weird at first but it be easy to review since you could just run the tape back and see if players raised their hand and who they were.
 
We saw a violation that was not called in the NC game a few weeks ago. Didn't affect the outcome but it did get called in a pretty big state playoff game this year.


I forget which game it was off the top of my head (the Washington State game?), but Pitt got called for being out of rotation in one of the NCAA tournament games. It's the same sort of violation as an ineligible receiver lining up in a eligible spot.
 
Yes? Kind of like, why do then have a rule about running 15 players onto the field for a punt or why do they have a rule about injuries delaying the game. Someone exploited it.


Imagine all the crap that coaches would try to pull to fool the opponent if the got rid of the rule about certain numbers being ineligible and it was left up to the defense to figure it out at the line of scrimmage for every play.
 
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By the way, that crew is working the Steeler game on Sunday.


Yeah, and they have apparently been told that they did such a bang up job in that game last weekend that their services will not be required once the playoffs start.

But yeah, they didn't do anything wrong.
 
Yeah, and they have apparently been told that they did such a bang up job in that game last weekend that their services will not be required once the playoffs start.

But yeah, they didn't do anything wrong.
Probably a smart move considering the drama that has surrounded them since the Detroit/Cowgirls game. Any call would be scrutinized whether it was right or wrong.
 
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