OT: Nutting

[Panther Holla]

is it? Man, I don't know about that. I think an elite college football or basketball program pays huge dividends to the school outside of just revenue from tickets, merchandise and tv..

winning football and hoops teams increase application numbers. but on the flip side, we are using very successful programs.. I think a good question is, does this remain true for a good but not great program. does a good P5 program have the same results as an elite one? Of course winning a NC in football and hoops helps across the board but does winning 9 games and going to a nice bowl help the academics? Im sure it keeps alumni happy and helps with donations so in short, who the hell knows..

Look to the east at a school that parlayed football success into dollars and a lot of windfall to the university itself. Leaving the scandal out of it for purposes of this argument. Why can't a school aspire to excel in education, research and athletics?

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

What the eggheads fail to grasp is that successful athletics programs are the best ambassadors a school not named Harvard, Yale or MIT could want. Winning brings fans. Fans bring money. Money builds libraries and academic buildings in addition to sports facilities. Success on the fields and in the classrooms do not have to be mutually exclusive.

Yeah well......Pitt ain't exactly poor. In fact, it is up with Penn State and Ohio State and a lot of the Ivy's and schools like Vanderbilt and NYU. So......I am not thinking football success matters much. You know some of the schools not up here, not even close? Alabama. Auburn. Oklahoma.

https://thebestschools.org/features/richest-universities-endowments-generosity-research/

 

[pittdan77]

Yeah well......Pitt ain't exactly poor. In fact, it is up with Penn State and Ohio State and a lot of the Ivy's and schools like Vanderbilt and NYU. So......I am not thinking football success matters much. You know some of the schools not up here, not even close? Alabama. Auburn. Oklahoma.

https://thebestschools.org/features/richest-universities-endowments-generosity-research/

Aren't endowments and revenue streams really two different things?

 

[jtownknowitall]

Watch out for those low-hanging lights in the Commons Room. You'll crack your shell.

Winning brings fans. Fans bring money. Fans who barely have enough money to pay for their tickets, that is.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Aren't endowments and revenue streams really two different things?

Yes, but they also represent "wealth" of a college. If you click on the link, Pitt is #16 in research budget. Pitt's research budget alone, not its endowments but it's research budget is as large or larger than HALF of the SEC school's endowments.

Which as I said in another thread (how is a Nutting thread gone in this direction anyway?) that some schools mission statements are different than others. And I truly believe football or basketball trumps academics and research at some schools.

 

[Panther Holla]

Yeah well......Pitt ain't exactly poor. In fact, it is up with Penn State and Ohio State and a lot of the Ivy's and schools like Vanderbilt and NYU. So......I am not thinking football success matters much. You know some of the schools not up here, not even close? Alabama. Auburn. Oklahoma.

https://thebestschools.org/features/richest-universities-endowments-generosity-research/

Maybe Bama, AU and OU are content to stand out as football factories. Which, I suppose, is Pitt in reverse.

 

[pittdan77]

Yes, but they also represent "wealth" of a college. If you click on the link, Pitt is #16 in research budget. Pitt's research budget alone, not its endowments but it's research budget is as large or larger than HALF of the SEC school's endowments.

Which as I said in another thread (how is a Nutting thread gone in this direction anyway?) that some schools mission statements are different than others. And I truly believe football or basketball trumps academics and research at some schools.

Well, that might explain why Pitt is willing to let more hospitals be built rather than a stadium. It's financially a much better choice and I'll never argue otherwise.

 

[FreeportPanther]

Well, that might explain why Pitt is willing to let more hospitals be built rather than a stadium. It's financially a much better choice and I'll never argue otherwise.

I believe UPMC and The University of Pittsburgh are separate entities.

 

[Ski11585]

What the eggheads fail to grasp is that successful athletics programs are the best ambassadors a school not named Harvard, Yale or MIT could want. Winning brings fans. Fans bring money. Money builds libraries and academic buildings in addition to sports facilities. Success on the fields and in the classrooms do not have to be mutually exclusive.

Donations build libraries. Not athletics.

 

[pittdan77]

I believe UPMC and The University of Pittsburgh are separate entities.

I think they are but I don't think a lot of people know that.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Aren't endowments and revenue streams really two different things?

Yes
Very different

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I believe UPMC and The University of Pittsburgh are separate entities.

Also true

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Yes, but they also represent "wealth" of a college. If you click on the link, Pitt is #16 in research budget. Pitt's research budget alone, not its endowments but it's research budget is as large or larger than HALF of the SEC school's endowments.

Which as I said in another thread (how is a Nutting thread gone in this direction anyway?) that some schools mission statements are different than others. And I truly believe football or basketball trumps academics and research at some schools.

I bet you’d be surprised what percentage of their operating budgets is going into football.

Hint- the fans (revenues and donations) are paying the freight- so the university doesn’t have to.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I bet you’d be surprised what percentage of their operating budgets is going into football.

Hint- the fans (revenues and donations) are paying the freight- so the university doesn’t have to.

Sure. But my point is, alumni and supporters are more likely to support a football program over academics and research at some schools rather than others. It is fairly obvious when you see the endowments of the schools in the SEC vs what they spend and take in football wise. Hence, my position that some schools football trumps academics.

 

[McKee Place]

Sure. But my point is, alumni and supporters are more likely to support a football program over academics and research at some schools rather than others. It is fairly obvious when you see the endowments of the schools in the SEC vs what they spend and take in football wise. Hence, my position that some schools football trumps academics.

It's a cycle. Fans will more happily pay the freight, indeed get on long waiting lists for the privilege to pay the freight, of a program that is a success and is demonstrably committed to continuing to be a success. Nobody gets on Dukes long basketball waiting list and pays huge mandatory donations just because they're gosh darn so prideful of their great Duke-ocity. Oh sure a few schoolphiles will be rahrah enough to not care, but 99% do it because Duke basketball is a proven winner and committed to stay a proven winner. Those people know their money, when or if needed, would get funneled to the best coaches, the best assistants, great facilities, and line the pockets of players more or similar to what Carolina or Kentucky does.

For a school with teams that have sucked for 40 years ... FORTY... understandably there will be less enthusiasm from customer base to throw money at such a hapless crew of bumblers. By experience, the assumption (a good one) is that the money would be squandered or channeled to something such fans wouldn't give a squat about.

It doesn't matter that the university brass and their sycophants don't like that, it's how it is.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

It's a cycle. Fans will more happily pay the freight, indeed get on long waiting lists for the privilege to pay the freight, of a program that is a success and is demonstrably committed to continuing to be a success. Nobody gets on Dukes long basketball waiting list and pays huge mandatory donations just because they're gosh darn so prideful of their great Duke-ocity. Oh sure a few schoolphiles will be rahrah enough to not care, but 99% do it because Duke basketball is a proven winner and committed to stay a proven winner. Those people know their money, when or if needed, would get funneled to the best coaches, the best assistants, great facilities, and line the pockets of players more or similar to what Carolina or Kentucky does.

For a school with teams that have sucked for 40 years ... FORTY... understandably there will be less enthusiasm from customer base to throw money at such a hapless crew of bumblers. By experience, the assumption (a good one) is that the money would be squandered or channeled to something such fans wouldn't give a squat about.

It doesn't matter that the university brass and their sycophants don't like that, it's how it is.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm yep.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm yep.

Counter point

Pitt football 1975-1985
A decade of championship caliber teams and the support never followed.

Pitt basketball 1995-2010 an extended period of great performance and yet money didn’t flow into athletics. In fact, a class action lawsuit was filed because of seats being moved to accommodate bigger donors.

Athletics isn’t important to the fans and boosters in pitt’s fanbase.

There’s always an excuse.