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OT: Olympics - Biles

He didn't retire. He quit. As is evidenced by the fact that a short time later he was back playing again. Had he actually retired, as in stopped playing for good, then you'd have a point. But he didn't. So you don't. He took a mental health break at a time that he was the best player in the world and was most likely to win another championship.

Just because you like Jordan that doesn't mean that you get to ignore what he actually did. Or, I guess, didn't do.
Yep Jordan a quitter. There's no excuse to quit after your dad get killed. Let down his teammates. Weak. Choke loser quit. Could have had 8 in a row bad let a small detail detail him.

Brady quit on pats. Should have overcompensated for their lack of talent by being better instead of going to a buy a championship team. Could have offered to play D. Choked against packers with 3 second half pics but D bailed him out. Loser has been
 
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Yep Jordan a quitter. There's no excuse to quit after your dad get killed. Let down his teammates. Weak. Choke loser quit. Could have had 8 in a row bad let a small detail detail him.

Brady quit on pats. Should have overcompensated for their lack of talent by being better instead of going to a buy a championship team. Could have offered to play D. Choked against packers with 3 second half pics but D bailed him out. Loser has been

So you’re saying what Jordan and Brady did should be lauded as courageous and brave?
 
Are we at the point where any athlete that "comes up short" at their sport/event can just blame their mental health for a subpar performance? Sitting out can become the proper response followed up by their coach offering a hug of support.

Furthermore, will the word "choking" become un-PC and not able to be used?

I've grown up with family and friends dealing with mental health issues such as schizophrenia and severe depression. I'm having a hard time linking sports pressure to that kind of mental health.

I'm having trouble understanding your comparison of Biles and your friends and family. Are you saying your F&F choked at life? Or that Biles can't be suffering a mental issue because she achieved too much? If you've been as close as to such illness as you allude, then you surely know it can affect anyone, at any stage or life status.
 
These Olympics, partly because of the time difference, partly because I could care less about 95% of the sports and partly because NBC does a horrible job in broadcasting things to sports fans, they are completely irrelevant to me.

As for Biles, hope things work out, but getting a bit tired of all of these athletes, in all sports, how they are championed for the individuality and personal issues which is important....to them. Not me.

Just like the Japanese tennis player who had these issues, and didn't want to be interviewed, and dropped out of tourneys, then lauded for her courage like she crossed enemy lines in machine gun fire, then ended up on every magazine/media site (so much for her recalcitrance).

I guess I am getting tired of this "working class hero" mentality of our media to otherwise completely pampered athletes. This includes college sports too.
Recalcitrance? Who would have thought a Pitt football message board could be such a bastion for the King's English?

I agree with you fully. A job is something you have to do, even if you do not want to do it.
These girls are not amateurs, they are professionals. Taking mental health days during the big "events" is like me deciding not to go to work when shit hits the fan. If you or I do it, we are fired. I assume both of us are not sitting on a few million bucks to ride out that storm like these woman are. We also would be considered cowards, not inspirational.

Now the true amateur athletes, that is a whole different story.
 
i was at a kids party awhile back and was 3-0 in cornhole but the last game, i lost. i definitely didnt choke, i had mental issues. it's like the board got smaller and everything seemed fuzzy.. def mental issues or possibly the beer kicked in..
That reminds me of a beer pong tournament I played in one morning before a Pitt football game. We played single shot make-it-take style to speed up the action. I hit six in a row to clear the table. The next game I missed my first shot... and we were done 3 minutes later. I wasn't mentally prepared to hit 12 in a row. Fortunately Pitt kicked the shit out of Virginia Tech and my mental health was restored.
 
I'm having trouble understanding your comparison of Biles and your friends and family. Are you saying your F&F choked at life? Or that Biles can't be suffering a mental issue because she achieved too much? If you've been as close as to such illness as you allude, then you surely know it can affect anyone, at any stage or life status.
I agree, you're having trouble understanding what I said.
 
It’s just astounding (or not really) that the default by so many people here is to criticize and assume she’s a weak minded quitter. If facts come out to support this I’ll eat crow. But she’s won medals on broken toes and with kidney stones all while facing sexual assault.

That doesn’t strike me as a weak minded quitter.
Nor does going to work with a hangover and climbing 150 feet on scaffolding to inspect a boiler at 600 degrees make me an athlete. Was I at my best... no. But did I do it.... yes. I think what people are saying is giving up because you are not at your best is..... well.... giving up. And saying it is a mental health issue appears to be a convenient excuse.
 
If she got physically hurt and had to withdraw or performed poorly, it would not be a choke. Or if she played and just flat out got beaten by a better competitor it wouldn't be a choke.

Honestly, I don't really think she "choked" per se. It's not some horrible failure or anything. It just kinda looks bad on her. And it's kinda weird that people are so hellbent on squashing any criticism of her.

A star athlete pulling out of the biggest competition in the sport mid-competition, without any kind of injury, is weird and is just naturally going to be questioned. It's pretty baffling that anyone would think otherwise.
So are you saying it’s ok to stop with physical injury because you could get hurt further but it’s not ok if it’s a mental thing … which also could lead to injury??? (and seems by all accounts to be exactly what happened) reports were cloudy at first and unclear what happened but it looks like it was a barrier to performing and a danger . Does it really matter physical or mental if in the end they result in the same outcome? I’m also keeping in mind the xtra year added of pressure after being prepared to compete a year ago? Jordan or Brady never had an extra year wait time added on for their “moments of truth” ….maybe not even totally directed at you … but to those in this thread dismissing the mental aspects here or even trying to understand it beyond the usual “mental toughness “ cliches…

I’m seriously not seeing much logic in that view. I also doubt very much making this decision was either easy or an easy way out…
 
Guys, in all seriousness, if you want to throw your opinions about how she failed or choked or whatever on this message board, that's fine. Just be careful around your family and friends. Some of this stuff could really hurt someone who isn't well and who would be counting on you. Just mind yourself.
 
What difference does that make? He had teammates who were counting on him. He quit. For mental health reasons. That's either a valid reason for both of them, or they are both quitters.

You don't get to have your cake and eat it too.
Do you actually see these two situations as remotely comparable in any way, or are you just trying to keep this absurd argument going?

Biles quit at the moment of truth. Jordan finished the job then stepped away. It simply isn't even close to the same kind of situation. I am with the group that does not think she should be excoriated for this, but I also don't think we should be praising her for being so brave about confrontiong "mental health issues" that appear to be purely performance related and that suddenly cropped up at these Olympic games. You can try to call it whatev e you want to but that's a classic choke, and it absoultey diminishes Biles' greatness. . As I said in a previous thread, if she backed out becaue she belived that she was risking severe injury due to her lack of focus, that's just being smart--and I think that has been said by her teammates and by Biles herself when she spoke to her coach and teammates right before she pulled herself. But even so, the reason for that was a lack of mental preparedness and focus, and that's called a choke.
 
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None other than Kerri Strug has thrown her support behind Biles…

that says it all.

and her situation in 96 absolutely reeked of everything that’s been abusive in the sport… friggen cringeworthy…..so if she supports Biles that’s about all you can say.
 
One quit mid competition. One quit (retired) after the season was over. Both committed to a competition adn only one completed the event. There is a difference.

She is not to be commended to admitting her frailty.
 
So are you saying it’s ok to stop with physical injury because you could get hurt further but it’s not ok if it’s a mental thing … which also could lead to injury??? (and seems by all accounts to be exactly what happened) reports were cloudy at first and unclear what happened but it looks like it was a barrier to performing and a danger . Does it really matter physical or mental if in the end they result in the same outcome? I’m also keeping in mind the xtra year added of pressure after being prepared to compete a year ago? Jordan or Brady never had an extra year wait time added on for their “moments of truth” ….maybe not even totally directed at you … but to those in this thread dismissing the mental aspects here or even trying to understand it beyond the usual “mental toughness “ cliches…

I’m seriously not seeing much logic in that view. I also doubt very much making this decision was either easy or an easy way out…
Yes, because I don't believe the "mental thing" would lead to injury. This argument has been hyped up way too much. On that last vault she did, she landed on her feet. She didn't even fall down. She had a bad landing score-wise, but nothing about it looked dangerous. She landed on her feet and took a big step forward instead of sticking it cleanly. I saw probably a dozen other landings that were worse.

If you are telling me gymnastics is this dangerous, we need to just discontinue the sport.
 
Do you actually see these two situations as remotely comparable in any way, or are you just trying to keep this absurd argument going?

Biles quit at the moment of truth. Jordan finished the job then stepped away. It simply isn't even close to the same kind of situation. I am with the group that does not think she should be excoriated for this, but I also don't think we should be praising her for being so brave about confrontiong "mental health issues" that appear to be purely performance related and that suddenly cropped up at these Olympic games. You can try to call it whatev e you want to but that's a classic choke, and it absoultey diminishes Biles' greatness. . As I said in a previous thread, if she backed out becaue she belived that she was risking severe injury due to her lack of focus, that's just being smart--and I think that has been said by her teammates and by Biles herself when she spoke to her coach and teammates right before she pulled herself. But even so, the reason for that was a lack of mental preparedness and focus, and that's called a choke.
My guess is Joe is just messing around. The 2 situations aren’t even the slightest similar.
 
Max Scherzer was scheduled to pitch game five of the 2019 World Series. He came down neck spasms three hours before the game. Joe Ross started the game against Gerrit Cole and the Houston Astros. The Nationals lost 7-1 giving the Astros a 3-2 series lead. Scherzer was 35 at the time and being paid $37 million to pitch that season. Of course everyone believed him. Simone Biles should have simply said she was suffering from leg cramps or even neck spasms. Everyone would have believed her. Right?

Biles was able to be replaced. The US came in second with her replacement. Today, her replacement finished in eighth place. She went from not being able to compete at all to eighth best in the world. Good job.
 
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Max Scherzer was scheduled to pitch game five of the 2019 World Series. He came down neck spasms three hours before the game. Joe Ross started the game against Gerrit Cole and the Houston Astros. The Nationals lost 7-1 giving the Astros a 3-2 series lead. Scherzer was 35 at the time and being paid $37 million to pitch that season. Of course everyone believed him. Simone Biles should have simply said she was suffering from leg cramps or even neck spasms. Everyone would have believed her. Right?

Biles was able to be replaced. The US came in second with her replacement. Today, her replacement finished in eighth place. She went from not being able to compete at all to eighth best in the world. Good job.
So what you’re trying say is Scherzer really backed out because the pressure got to him. Otherwise there’s zero similarities between the two. Got it.
 
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So what you’re trying say is Scherzer really backed out because the pressure got to him. Otherwise there’s zero similarities between the two. Got it.
No. What I'm saying is no one questioned Scherzer. He is a 35 year old man with a bulldog reputation. You wouldn't dare question him, would you?

I'm still waiting for you to man up and tell us who the best American woman gymnast of all time was.
 
No. What I'm saying is no one questioned Scherzer. He is a 35 year old man with a bulldog reputation. You wouldn't dare question him, would you?

I'm still waiting for you to man up and tell us who the best American woman gymnast of all time was.
Who says no one questioned Scherzer. Regardless, no similarity between the 2 situations. And I sure hope you’re not throwing out the old white guy vs you know what card.

I already provided one reply back noting that I didn’t know the GOAT debate was limited to only US gymnasts. And even talking US only, I don’t feel any need to man up any further for you. Quitting under the pressure is enough for me. I’d call it a wise personal decision on her part if it was affecting her that much, but it still certainly drops her down a few pegs considering all the other competitors facing the same pressures.
 
There is no difference. She didn't perform due to pressure she felt after first underperforming. Its textbook choking.
No. What I'm saying is no one questioned Scherzer. He is a 35 year old man with a bulldog reputation. You wouldn't dare question him, would you?

I'm still waiting for you to man up and tell us who the best American woman gymnast of all time was.

I put Biles 6th.
 
So Biles should risk breaking her neck for the sake of entertaining a bunch of slobs that couldn't run around the block and who's never competed in anything other than Beer Pong(with cheap beer no less)...get the FCUK OUT OF HERE!!
 
So Biles should risk breaking her neck for the sake of entertaining a bunch of slobs that couldn't run around the block and who's never competed in anything other than Beer Pong(with cheap beer no less)...get the FCUK OUT OF HERE!!
That's were the disagreement comes in. It's not reasonable to say she is at risk of breaking her neck.
 
Who says no one questioned Scherzer. Regardless, no similarity between the 2 situations. And I sure hope you’re not throwing out the old white guy vs you know what card.

I already provided one reply back noting that I didn’t know the GOAT debate was limited to only US gymnasts. And even talking US only, I don’t feel any need to man up any further for you. Quitting under the pressure is enough for me. I’d call it a wise personal decision on her part if it was affecting her that much, but it still certainly drops her down a few pegs considering all the other competitors facing the same pressures.
The reaction of miserable old men to Biles' withdrawal from the Olympics and the overwhelming support she has received for it was certainly not surprising or unexpected. It's time for you to go back to ignoring the Olympics like you promised you would.
 
That's were the disagreement comes in. It's not reasonable to say she is at risk of breaking her neck.
Which gymnastics events did you participate in?

A former US elite gymnast said in an interview that if it was someone other than Simone Biles who had made that same error, they would have certainly blown a knee, at minimum. Another said if it had happened to her instead of Simone, “I probably would have ended up paralyzed.”
 
So we have a new American gold medal winner in gymnastics. All is well. Lee is the new GOAT because of the associated Biles situation put more stress on her to come through and she did. End of story.
 
That's were the disagreement comes in. It's not reasonable to say she is at risk of breaking her neck.
But it is. That last vault before she withdrew she immediately came off the mat and told her coach she got "lost" in mid-spin.She appeared visibly frightened and shaken by that. She was just lucky to land on her feet even though it was way off balance. She could have injured herself severely. Not making excuses for her, if you read my other posts in this thread you'll see that clearly--the fact that she got the yips at the moment of truth--essentially folded mentally under pressure--is the core issue. Pulling herself to avoid potential injury was the smart play under those circumstances.
 
The reaction of miserable old men to Biles' withdrawal from the Olympics and the overwhelming support she has received for it was certainly not surprising or unexpected. It's time for you to go back to ignoring the Olympics like you promised you would.
You really have your posters mixed up with that comeback about promising to ignore the olympics.

The ‘miserable old men’ line, now there’s an imaginative characterization that has been used umpteen times in here by a predictable group of posters when they have a differing opinion on something. I can happily say I’m not miserable in the least bit.
 
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You really have your posters mixed up with that comeback about promising to ignore the olympics.

The ‘miserable old men’ line, now there’s an imaginative characterization that has been used umpteen times in here by a predictable group of posters when they have a differing opinion on something. I can happily say I’m not miserable in the least bit.
You'll concede the old man accusation though?
 
Are you talking about those same risks that every other competitor faces.
Gymnastics competitor? Or any sports competitor?

Those are the same risks any artistic gymnastics competitor faces, and those risks are compounded exponentially if the gymnast cannot focus mentally on the event they are performing.
 
But it is. That last vault before she withdrew she immediately came off the mat and told her coach she got "lost" in mid-spin.She appeared visibly frightened and shaken by that. She was just lucky to land on her feet even though it was way off balance. She could have injured herself severely. Not making excuses for her, if you read my other posts in this thread you'll see that clearly--the fact that she got the yips at the moment of truth--essentially folded mentally under pressure--is the core issue. Pulling herself to avoid potential injury was the smart play under those circumstances.
Is anyone herein really disagreeing with you. Seems most lean towards the thought that it was the wise thing for her to pull out if she wasn’t up to the task. Seems the only debate is where that places her in the history of all-time greats considering all other competitors face the same risks and pressures.

It’s a shame people can’t have differences of opinion on that without it turning into insults and stupid characterizations of fat old white guys behind a keyboard.
 
Gymnastics competitor? Or any sports competitor?

Those are the same risks any artistic gymnastics competitor faces, and those risks are compounded exponentially if the gymnast cannot focus mentally on the event they are performing.
I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. Yeah, all other gymnastics competitors at that level face very similar risks and pressures. No different than other sports where the competitors in those sports face similar risks and pressures.
 
You can't be serious!!! The speed and height in which she generates on her routines is more than enough to break her neck if she comes up short on her landings. STOP IT!
So apparently she is the only one who generates enough height and speed to injure herself. No one else.
 
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