OT: Pirates & Reds

[HopeandChangeforAntoons]

I don't get the narrative from Pirates fans that the Dodgers are bound to fail without Vazquez in their pen. Surely he would have increased their chances, but they are still among the favorites and have the best record in baseball. Besides, in the playoffs they only need a 3 or 4 man rotation and can use Urias in relief.

 

[pittdan77]

I don't get the narrative from Pirates fans that the Dodgers are bound to fail without Vazquez in their pen. Surely he would have increased their chances, but they are still among the favorites and have the best record in baseball. Besides, in the playoffs they only need a 3 or 4 man rotation and can use Urias in relief.

They moved a guy to their bullpen and called up a guy to start. I don't think they needed Vasquez. I think he would have been a luxury. I find a lot of these fantastic claims to be a little too good to be true.

 

[wicker]

Parts are Hall of Famers at beer muscling. Old Joe Musgrove always backed up Jay-Hay when he'd get hit

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I don't get the narrative from Pirates fans that the Dodgers are bound to fail without Vazquez in their pen.

Bound to? No, not really. But they failed in each of the last two seasons because their bullpen let them down. And their bullpen (along with their team defense) is still their weak spot.

If you think you are a World Series favorite and you have more money to spend than god and you have an obvious weakness that has let you down the last two years in a row most people would probably think it's a pretty sound strategy to try to shore up that weakness.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

This is great, MLB is taking a page out of the NHL book, MLB needs more of this type of interaction!

You haven’t watched the nhl this decade have you??

 

[pbrad]

I saw the whole thing and thought it was plain stupid on the Cincy pitchers part. Never in all my years following baseball have I seen that. Puig did get thrown out of the game, and deservedly so. The dude is nothing but a bully and loves to be a crybaby. I also thought that the plate ump was not in control like he should have been. When Puig threw his helmet after being upset about a pitch he should have been tossed immediately, in my opinion. All in all The Reds are a pile and acted like a bunch of punks. Not saying that the Pirates are totally blameless but the Reds were definitely the aggressors last night, the way I view it.

Kela admitted to throwing at Dietrich.

 

[crharris8892]

is it me or are the buccos always smack dab in the middle of a lot of drama? Cubs, cards, reds. everyone seems to really dislike us.

we aren't good enough to hate out of jealousy. the common denominator here is us, and our tendency to bean a hell of a lot of players.

Sign of a loser team, players are frustrated at their losing ways and drama always ensues...plus lack of control by the manager.

 

[pbrad]

I don't get the narrative from Pirates fans that the Dodgers are bound to fail without Vazquez in their pen. Surely he would have increased their chances, but they are still among the favorites and have the best record in baseball. Besides, in the playoffs they only need a 3 or 4 man rotation and can use Urias in relief.

And the Pirates don't need a closer when he only gets in every 8-10 games because the starters are so bad.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

And the Pirates don't need a closer when he only gets in every 8-10 games because the starters are so bad.

I agree. But I will side with the Pirates on not trading Vasquez to the Dodgers if they were unwilling to part with 2 of their top 4 prospects. You can always trade him this offseason, or next year as the Dodgers likely will fall short again. His contract is that good. The problem is, relief pitchers are fleeting, they go awry quickly. Injuries, etc...

But you don't give him away just to make a move.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I agree. But I will side with the Pirates on not trading Vasquez to the Dodgers if they were unwilling to part with 2 of their top 4 prospects. You can always trade him this offseason, or next year as the Dodgers likely will fall short again. His contract is that good. The problem is, relief pitchers are fleeting, they go awry quickly. Injuries, etc...

But you don't give him away just to make a move.

Right. The best thing for the Pirates would be for the Dodgers to make the Series again this year, and then for the third year in a row have their bullpen be what keeps them from winning the chip. Then in the off season the Pirates go to them and say well, here's a second chance for you to do this right, and the price hasn't changed.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Right. The best thing for the Pirates would be for the Dodgers to make the Series again this year, and then for the third year in a row have their bullpen be what keeps them from winning the chip. Then in the off season the Pirates go to them and say well, here's a second chance for you to do this right, and the price hasn't changed.

And with the Pirates luck and karma, you know the Dodgers will likely sweep through the playoffs and series and the bullpen would be an afterthought. LOL

 

[pbrad]

Good thing the Bucs didn't trade Vasquez, he has looked pretty good sitting in the bullpen. The Dodgers #3 and #5 prospects are probably better than are on the Pirates roster.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Good thing the Bucs didn't trade Vasquez, he has looked pretty good sitting in the bullpen. The Dodgers #3 and #5 prospects are probably better than are on the Pirates roster.

I am just wondering if the Pirates focused too much on Gavin Lux, and not the catcher (Ruiz?), Dustin May and a 3rd, lesser prospect. You know, at positions they desperately need help at and have nothing in the pipeline. That would be so Pirates.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Mitchy. Mitchy......Mitch Keller??

The Pirates are doing their dishonesty act again with Mitch Keller. I firmly believe he is not up here (how can he be any worse of an option) because he is another of their pitching "talents" who has plateaued, and the Pirates intend to make him part of their off season bullshit plan to dupe the customers for "hope". They fear bringing him up, with this ridiculous and failed pitching strategy will cause him to be pounded and Keller exposed as another mirage of a prospect.

This franchise sucks so bad, I hate any of you who go. You all need to stop watching, stop going. Not one dollar.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I am just wondering if the Pirates focused too much on Gavin Lux, and not the catcher (Ruiz?), Dustin May and a 3rd, lesser prospect. You know, at positions they desperately need help at and have nothing in the pipeline. That would be so Pirates.

You never really know about these things, but I saw something that said that the Dodgers told the Pirates they couldn't have any of Lux, either of the two catchers, and four of their top pitching prospects. If that's even close to true the Pirates were correct in telling the Dodgers no thanks, because they should have been insisting on at least two of those seven players.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

You never really know about these things, but I saw something that said that the Dodgers told the Pirates they couldn't have any of Lux, either of the two catchers, and four of their top pitching prospects. If that's even close to true the Pirates were correct in telling the Dodgers no thanks, because they should have been insisting on at least two of those seven players.

Agree totally. But for how much the Pirates lie, it would not be surprising that it was more disinformation propaganda by them.

 

[FreeportPanther]

In watching this slow motion train wreck, it is so obvious that Hurdle has worn out his welcome here.
He seems frustrated and confused. He now just ho hums everything, throws out the same tired platitudes. He's clearly burned out.

With the total collapse of this team from the break, and the pathetic performance of the pitching staff, both starters and the pen, how does Hurdle and Searage survive?

The only answer is, they and Huntington are Nutting's boys. They obediently do his bidding and continue to BS the public like good little serfs.

The Pirates drew 37,000 for a weekend fireworks night against the Mets. Think about that for a minute. If there are 37,000 people willing to come out and watch poor baseball to see fireworks on one night, how many would be willing to come out every night for good baseball?
They could throw in a bobblehead, fireworks display, t-shirt, etc. from time to time, but there is obviously a hunger for MLB here.

I don't get why Nutting can't see that a modest investment in a better roster would generate more ticket sales, concession sales, merchandise sales, better TV and radio contracts, etc.
We're talking additional millions of $$$ here.

It is a travesty of the highest order. PNC Park held hostage to a cheap money grabber. Sad!

 

[pbrad]

You never really know about these things, but I saw something that said that the Dodgers told the Pirates they couldn't have any of Lux, either of the two catchers, and four of their top pitching prospects. If that's even close to true the Pirates were correct in telling the Dodgers no thanks, because they should have been insisting on at least two of those seven players.

So the Dodgers said to the Pirates you can't have any of our top 10 prospects for the chance to get a top major league closer. I find that very hard to believe.

 

[FreeportPanther]

So the Dodgers said to the Pirates you can't have any of our top 10 prospects for the chance to get a top major league closer. I find that very hard to believe.

It is hard to believe given the ransom other teams played for necessary pieces with not nearly the contract advantages that Vasquez had.

Houston gave up a king's ransom for Grienke.
Chapman has been dealt twice for a huge haul as I recall.
Look at what the Pirates gave up for Archer last year.

Seems every other team is able to pull off these leveraged deals but the Pirates. What does that tell you about the best management team in MLB??

 

[HopeandChangeforAntoons]

Mitchy. Mitchy......Mitch Keller??

The Pirates are doing their dishonesty act again with Mitch Keller. I firmly believe he is not up here (how can he be any worse of an option) because he is another of their pitching "talents" who has plateaued, and the Pirates intend to make him part of their off season bullshit plan to dupe the customers for "hope". They fear bringing him up, with this ridiculous and failed pitching strategy will cause him to be pounded and Keller exposed as another mirage of a prospect.

This franchise sucks so bad, I hate any of you who go. You all need to stop watching, stop going. Not one dollar.

Get a grip. You post more Pirates stuff on here than just about anyone.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

In watching this slow motion train wreck, it is so obvious that Hurdle has worn out his welcome here.
He seems frustrated and confused. He now just ho hums everything, throws out the same tired platitudes. He's clearly burned out.

With the total collapse of this team from the break, and the pathetic performance of the pitching staff, both starters and the pen, how does Hurdle and Searage survive?

The only answer is, they and Huntington are Nutting's boys. They obediently do his bidding and continue to BS the public like good little serfs.

The Pirates drew 37,000 for a weekend fireworks night against the Mets. Think about that for a minute. If there are 37,000 people willing to come out and watch poor baseball to see fireworks on one night, how many would be willing to come out every night for good baseball?
They could throw in a bobblehead, fireworks display, t-shirt, etc. from time to time, but there is obviously a hunger for MLB here.

I don't get why Nutting can't see that a modest investment in a better roster would generate more ticket sales, concession sales, merchandise sales, better TV and radio contracts, etc.
We're talking additional millions of $$$ here.

It is a travesty of the highest order. PNC Park held hostage to a cheap money grabber. Sad!

One of the biggest problems of this franchise is they seem to have a "lottery ticket" approach. Instead of looking at Frankie Liriano and Edwin Volquez as "lucky" they seem to think that is the formulaic approach and business model to success. That "pitching to contact" approach won 98 games in 2015, they fail to acknowledge all of the obvious failures of Pirates pitchers since then. They continue to think they have found the way.

I love Huntington remarking about the A's winning 98 games last year with bottom of the league payroll, but you notice they never cite the smaller market Royals for making some big and bold trades down the stretch that led to back to back ALCS appearances and a Championship.

This franchise, the fans, haven't seen a playoff series win since 1979. How heartless is Nutting, when you have a 98 win team, you don't implore your GM to "do what it takes" to get over the top. Instead, they burn it down. And despite all of that, the final nail in my personal Pirate coffin was the 4 year extensions given to Huntington, Hurdle and Conelly 2 years ago. That just showed the owner doesn't care at all about winning.

Everything with this franchise is the classic bait and switch and dupe or fraud. It is all lies and mirages, mistruths and disinformation. They refuse to be honest not just with the fans, but themselves.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

So the Dodgers said to the Pirates you can't have any of our top 10 prospects for the chance to get a top major league closer. I find that very hard to believe.

There are many teams out there, especially ones that are into analytics like the Dodgers are, that don't think that relief pitchers are worth a whole lot on the trade market. Because, as recruits has pointed out several times, relievers are much more prone than players at other positions are to just losing it one day and never being the same again.

One of the ESPN guys (a former MLB front office guy) was talking about it a day or two before the deadline, and when someone mentioned about all the guys the Dodgers had supposedly told the Pirates they wouldn't include in the deal said that he could completely understand the Dodgers saying that, because personally he would never trade even one top 50 prospect for any relief pitcher, and the Pirates wanted the Dodgers to include two of those.

 

[mike412]

If you watch Garrett closely, he doesn’t land a punch. He went after Trevor Williams and missed him. Twice. He punches like a girl. He got put on his ass by a tackle after a few seconds. And, when it was all over, he pranced around showing off his biceps like he had scored a KO. Pathetic!

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

And if you are looking for a reason why teams might feel that closers aren't worth a ton in the trade market, as of right now the top ten guys in the league in saves have a combined 259 saves in 295 chances, which is a save percentage of 88.8%. The guys 11 through 21 (there is currently a tie for 20th so I included them both) have a combined 203 saves in 238 games, which is a save percentage of 85.3%. Or in other words, the top third of the guys in the league save you one more game for every 29 games than a guy in the middle third.

And if you think that top ten isn't "exclusive" enough, the top six (there's a tie for fifth) are at 89.2%. That's one extra save for every 26 chances over the middle third.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

And if you are looking for a reason why teams might feel that closers aren't worth a ton in the trade market, as of right now the top ten guys in the league in saves have a combined 259 saves in 295 chances, which is a save percentage of 88.8%. The guys 11 through 21 (there is currently a tie for 20th so I included them both) have a combined 203 saves in 238 games, which is a save percentage of 85.3%. Or in other words, the top third of the guys in the league save you one more game for every 29 games than a guy in the middle third.

And if you think that top ten isn't "exclusive" enough, the top six (there's a tie for fifth) are at 89.2%. That's one extra save for every 26 chances over the middle third.

The only thing, if you finished runner up twice in a row, and it was mostly because you couldn't finish the games....I mean that is what the Dodgers wanted a lights out reliever for. They already have the regular season pop, in the post season, games are tighter, you want to go 7th-8th-9th innings of lockout, sort of like the Cubs and Indians did a few years back.

So yeah, regular season wise, it isn't as important. Come postseason, you come all this way.

It will be interesting to see what happens if the Dodgers fall short again.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

By the way, I said it best that the Pirates should go like 2-5 out of the all star break so they had no illusions of being a contender and therefore a seller at the deadline. While, they are 4-19 since the break, and still harbor those illusions.

 

[lilspainishflea]

There is no reason to be a Pirates fan. They are not committed to winning. Hell, they're not even committed to being competitive. Nor are they fun to watch. Continuing to believe in them is a textbook case of Stockholm Syndrome.

 

[DiehardPanther]

There is no reason to be a Pirates fan. They are not committed to winning. Hell, they're not even committed to being competitive. Nor are they fun to watch. Continuing to believe in them is a textbook case of Stockholm Syndrome.

If their owner doesn’t care, then why should I?
F’ Nutting!

 

[HopeandChangeforAntoons]

I don't think that they can catch Detroit, but if they can continue their pace since the break they have a great shot at a top 5 pick next year. They are basically the Bengals of MLB. Maybe they can hire some of the Dodgers scouts and actually draft some top prospects themselves instead of always having to trade for them.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

It will be interesting to see what happens if the Dodgers fall short again.

Absolutely. As I said, if they lose again in the playoffs and it's in whole or in part because their bullpen lets them down again then the Pirates ought to be going back to them in the off season telling them it's their chance for a "do over", but that the price hasn't changed at all.

 

[RingDinger]

The problems I see with the Pirates:

1) Antiquated Philosophies - The pitching to contact philosophy is especially mind-boggling, because I guarantee you our starters do not go any deeper into games than the ones on teams that try to strike guys out. There is no tailoring with our staff; it's just a one-size-fits-all generic approach for everyone. It's something a Pony League coach who works a full-time job and has almost no spare time to devote to coaching would implement.

But that isn't the only bunk philosophy we've got going. Just look at our (lack of) player to development, and you can ascertain that there are some serious flaws within this organization. Even the guys who are labeled as "sure things" as high as Triple A almost never reach their projections up here.

And this waiting until prospects are 24/25 thing is getting silly, also. Teams simply do not do that anymore. You're typically past your prime by the time you're 28.

2) Lack of Self-Awareness - This thing needs blown up, badly. When we traded Cole and McCutchen, we needed higher risk/higher reward players; not "I think he can be a solid big leaguer" guys. We are nowhere near competitive, and you don't become competitive by adding 0 to -1 WAR guys who are ready to play in the pros. We needed to add A or AA guys who might turn into 5 WAR guys (or bust out altogether... but that's the chance you have to take!). Now, is this on Huntington, or is he receiving executive orders to continue to pull the wool over everyone's eyes and avoid a true rebuild? That I don't know.

We can no longer fix has-been free agent pitchers. We just can't. We can't even develop our top-of-the-line prospects. We need to realize this.

How many times has Huntington traded for a team's former #1 (or very high) prospect who the Pirates used to be in love with? Tabata, Pimentel, Clement, Milledge, Ike Davis, etc.? And how many times has it worked? Answer: Zero. Here's a hint, Neal: If other teams couldn't realize their former potential, your team sure as hell is not going to be able to. Get a clue already.

3) Obviously, Nutting is the problem. Although winning as a small market team isn't as impossible as we make it seem, and it's a sad state of affairs when the teams with payrolls that triple ours also have farm systems that are three times better. Having said that, why do people continue to show up and support this team? What's the worst that could happen if you withdrew support? Maybe they would eventually relocate, but you have to figure Pittsburgh would get another team soon after that, because any owner willing to actually invest in this project would be able to see a huge opportunity for revenues in this city.

Then again, look at the majority of the crowds who show up for these games. They make the NFL draft crowd look like a black tie affair.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

4-26. LOL. That's a .133 pace!! 22 wins over 162 games!

I love Ray Searage desperately defending his pitching philosophy with "people don't know the game inside the game". Yeah, I guess the Pirates are 20-10 over the past 30 games in the "game inside the game" instead of the 4-26 record all of us layman see.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I love Ray Searage desperately defending his pitching philosophy with "people don't know the game inside the game". Yeah, I guess the Pirates are 20-10 over the past 30 games in the "game inside the game" instead of the 4-26 record all of us layman see.

It seems pretty obvious by their recent public comments that most of them know that the jig is up.

I mean not for the root cause of the problem, but for the other guys.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

Having said that, why do people continue to show up and support this team? What's the worst that could happen if you withdrew support? Maybe they would eventually relocate, but you have to figure Pittsburgh would get another team soon after that, because any owner willing to actually invest in this project would be able to see a huge opportunity for revenues in this city.

I disagree on that point. If the Pirates relocate, I don't think MLB is ever coming back to Pittsburgh.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

OMG the Pirates hit a speed bump who would have known?

 

[BuffetParrothead]

The problems I see with the Pirates:

1) Antiquated Philosophies - The pitching to contact philosophy is especially mind-boggling, because I guarantee you our starters do not go any deeper into games than the ones on teams that try to strike guys out. There is no tailoring with our staff; it's just a one-size-fits-all generic approach for everyone. It's something a Pony League coach who works a full-time job and has almost no spare time to devote to coaching would implement.

But that isn't the only bunk philosophy we've got going. Just look at our (lack of) player to development, and you can ascertain that there are some serious flaws within this organization. Even the guys who are labeled as "sure things" as high as Triple A almost never reach their projections up here.

And this waiting until prospects are 24/25 thing is getting silly, also. Teams simply do not do that anymore. You're typically past your prime by the time you're 28.

2) Lack of Self-Awareness - This thing needs blown up, badly. When we traded Cole and McCutchen, we needed higher risk/higher reward players; not "I think he can be a solid big leaguer" guys. We are nowhere near competitive, and you don't become competitive by adding 0 to -1 WAR guys who are ready to play in the pros. We needed to add A or AA guys who might turn into 5 WAR guys (or bust out altogether... but that's the chance you have to take!). Now, is this on Huntington, or is he receiving executive orders to continue to pull the wool over everyone's eyes and avoid a true rebuild? That I don't know.

We can no longer fix has-been free agent pitchers. We just can't. We can't even develop our top-of-the-line prospects. We need to realize this.

How many times has Huntington traded for a team's former #1 (or very high) prospect who the Pirates used to be in love with? Tabata, Pimentel, Clement, Milledge, Ike Davis, etc.? And how many times has it worked? Answer: Zero. Here's a hint, Neal: If other teams couldn't realize their former potential, your team sure as hell is not going to be able to. Get a clue already.

3) Obviously, Nutting is the problem. Although winning as a small market team isn't as impossible as we make it seem, and it's a sad state of affairs when the teams with payrolls that triple ours also have farm systems that are three times better. Having said that, why do people continue to show up and support this team? What's the worst that could happen if you withdrew support? Maybe they would eventually relocate, but you have to figure Pittsburgh would get another team soon after that, because any owner willing to actually invest in this project would be able to see a huge opportunity for revenues in this city.

Then again, look at the majority of the crowds who show up for these games. They make the NFL draft crowd look like a black tie affair.

The Pirates are going nowhere.

Great article as to why:
Nutting Doesn't Care About Your Boycott
https://www.bucsdugout.com/2018/1/20/16910196/bob-nutting-does-not-care-about-your-boycott

Look at the value Nutting has added to his Pirates investment located in Pittsburgh.

Despite all the "girls" bitching on PantherLair Nutting isn't starving and seems to be happy!
Nutting effect: Pirates valued at $1.275 billion
Ogden Nutting, purchased the Pirates for $92 million, about $146 million in today’s currency.

I'll take that ROI ,IRR and payback anyday!
Plus Nutting is from WV. Lol that must make a lot of you mad.
By Hunter Homistek
https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2019/04/10/pittsburgh-pirates-value-bob-nutting-hh/

We're out of towners ( 300 miles away) and go to 6-8 Pirate games a year because we love MLB, the park is one of the best in the country, the Northshore is fun, our kids live in Pittsburgh, we like the Pirates die-hard fans, hot dogs with no buns, plus the Pirates draw a lot of out of towners, we see them all over the hotels.
What choice do we have to watch an MLB team in person, go to the dirt bag cities of NY ( Mets or Yankees), Philly, DC or Baltimore?????????????????

Pittsburgh wins!

 

[lilspainishflea]

The Pirates are going nowhere.

Great article as to why:
Nutting Doesn't Care About Your Boycott
https://www.bucsdugout.com/2018/1/20/16910196/bob-nutting-does-not-care-about-your-boycott

Look at the value Nutting has added to his Pirates investment located in Pittsburgh.

Despite all the "girls" bitching on PantherLair Nutting isn't starving and seems to be happy!
Nutting effect: Pirates valued at $1.275 billion
Ogden Nutting, purchased the Pirates for $92 million, about $146 million in today’s currency.

I'll take that ROI ,IRR and payback anyday!
Plus Nutting is from WV. Lol that must make a lot of you mad.
By Hunter Homistek
https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2019/04/10/pittsburgh-pirates-value-bob-nutting-hh/

We're out of towners ( 300 miles away) and go to 6-8 Pirate games a year because we love MLB, the park is one of the best in the country, the Northshore is fun, our kids live in Pittsburgh, we like the Pirates die-hard fans, hot dogs with no buns, plus the Pirates draw a lot of out of towners, we see them all over the hotels.
What choice do we have to watch an MLB team in person, go to the dirt bag cities of NY ( Mets or Yankees), Philly, DC or Baltimore?????????????????

Pittsburgh wins!

Yes, Nutting is a corporate welfare queen. We all know why he's happy. But we also know he's a pig, and pigs get fat and then slaughtered.

You can't assume that Nutting's mail it in philosophy is going to hold forever. He's finished above .500 only THREE times in 12 seasons. He seems like he doesn't care about the on-field product. When PNC Park needs to be replaced in 10-15 years and the Pirates have been totally irrelevant except for 3 of his 15-20 years of ownership, don't assume that the taxpayers are going to float him a new stadium.

Frankly, Nutting is the worst thing that has happened to the Pirates. He offers fans no reason to invest in his club. I could not care less if the Pirates leave. I was a dyed in the wool fan but ownership and management incompetence have killed baseball in this city. Seattle can have them - I won't miss them.

 

[pittdan77]

Yes, Nutting is a corporate welfare queen. We all know why he's happy. But we also know he's a pig, and pigs get fat and then slaughtered.

I happen to agree. Praising Nutting for milking a profit ignores all of the money the city invested in the Pirates. Money that could have easily gone to other infrastructure. I'll add that the other owners aren't happy with this circus. They don't want to share money with a club that isn't trying and weakens the brand.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

The Pirates are going nowhere.

Great article as to why:
Nutting Doesn't Care About Your Boycott
https://www.bucsdugout.com/2018/1/20/16910196/bob-nutting-does-not-care-about-your-boycott

Look at the value Nutting has added to his Pirates investment located in Pittsburgh.

Despite all the "girls" bitching on PantherLair Nutting isn't starving and seems to be happy!
Nutting effect: Pirates valued at $1.275 billion
Ogden Nutting, purchased the Pirates for $92 million, about $146 million in today’s currency.

I'll take that ROI ,IRR and payback anyday!
Plus Nutting is from WV. Lol that must make a lot of you mad.
By Hunter Homistek
https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2019/04/10/pittsburgh-pirates-value-bob-nutting-hh/

We're out of towners ( 300 miles away) and go to 6-8 Pirate games a year because we love MLB, the park is one of the best in the country, the Northshore is fun, our kids live in Pittsburgh, we like the Pirates die-hard fans, hot dogs with no buns, plus the Pirates draw a lot of out of towners, we see them all over the hotels.
What choice do we have to watch an MLB team in person, go to the dirt bag cities of NY ( Mets or Yankees), Philly, DC or Baltimore?????????????????

Pittsburgh wins!

You do know in MLB, it is not the team that has the largest profit margin does not win the championship don't ya?

 

[lilspainishflea]

I happen to agree. Praising Nutting for milking a profit ignores all of the money the city invested in the Pirates. Money that could have easily gone to other infrastructure. I'll add that the other owners aren't happy with this circus. They don't want to share money with a club that isn't trying and weakens the brand.

@BuffetParrothead does this all the time. His schtick is that capitalism is the result and not the process. "So and so is a business genius! Look how much money he's made!" Yeah, Nutting got millions of dollars from his family, bought a team, watched it win about 47% of its games over 12 years, never won a playoff series, and now the team is worth a lot more. Bob Nutting is a real sports visionary alright.