I'm perplexed some actually think it could happen. They mustn't live here. Focus on better connecting Oakland to town.
OT: Pitt buys Syria Mosque Parking Lot from UPMC
- Thread starter JoseLind13
- Start date
Sp didn't hurt us in the 80s and early 90s...
Which is the point I made .
Nor did he hurt in the 70s.
I'm sure there were other boogeymen then ...but, thanks for the diatribe .
Good point. Todd Graham didn't dick us over in the 80s either. However, that doesn't mean he did a good job here.
Sound logic.
Sound logic.
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$10 million seems crazy cheap for that land. Maybe land acquisition for a stadium wouldnt be as expensive as everyone thinks.
Trust me, it wouldn't be. These people have GROSSLY overstated their case all along. There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about our situation that is remotely unique to the University of Pittsburgh.
that's the one thing that perplexes me about this whole stadium thread.. The fans on here that say so adamantly that this is an impossibility, that consider pitt's situation so unique and that no one else has these logistical issues..
For the most part it's the Nerdy disciples who take that position because their main objective is to protect the reputation of the idiot chancellor who decided to tear down Pitt Stadium and take FB off campus. Most of them can't get beyond a 1995 mindset including pulling our Nerdy's 1995 campus blueprints. . Ignore them. They will be proven wrong.
If anything, a stadium should be explored as leverage to get a better deal from the Steelers. Everybody says what a great deal we have, yet I see no Pitt branding on the actual field and yellow seats that you can see from space. Lets start there.
This sale was not an “arms length transaction” That 2.1 acres would go for 20M in the open market.
Maybe UPMC discounted the price in exchange for naming rights to the new stadium.
UPMC Stadium
It's also possible to build a Nascar track in Oakland.....and just as silly.
With TV, ESPN3, etc. available for almost all games, attendance for ALL NCAA sports is trending down, and it'll get worse. That means fewer butts in seats on the North Shore, in Oakland, Hazelwood, or the Steelers new place coming to Crammedberry. The investment requirements don't produce enough return.
I heard it was a pre determined when PITT sold the property to UPMC to buy it back if they wanted to.
SMF, I agree completely. Never trust the Rooneys, never. The Rooneys care about nobody but themselves; be sure of that!
Nope....it's people who understand $$$ and the mission of the University. The mistakes were made prior to Nordenberg taking the helm. Pitt Stadium was allowed to fall apart, the Fitz was inadequate, and FB was in the dumpster. They made the right choices.....w/o trying to raise the hundreds of millions to fix things on campus. We were woefully behind in sports funding, had been for a long time. Nothing suggested that would change. If there had been enough pledges from donors to stay on campus, it might have happened. There's an urban legend that blames SP for it.......when the Trustees & Rooneys/Murphy had cooked up the Southside/HF rental quid pro quo. SP just the unlovable mouthpiece.
Pitt isn't unique. It is similar to Miami. Neither are building on-campus football stadiums any time in the near, or likely far, future.
Pitt does have extremely different circumstances as far as its combination of location, geography, zoning, politics, infrastructure, funding, student, & alumni base compared the vast majority of P5 schools. If you don't get that, you're being intentionally blind or dumb. Is it 100% impossible for Pitt to ever build on-campus? the fact is, I've posted previously on this board and others that the most probable location on the current central campus that it could possibly be done, if push came to shove, is behind the Cost Center. Does Pitt face major hurdles in funding, political capital, infrastructure, and simple real estate realities that make it extremely daunting and undesirable to pursue such a project when an existing (and what absolutely would be superior) faculty exists 3 miles down the road? 100%. At this time, there are a thousand better ways to use $300+ million to improve the athletic department, and about a million better ways for such money to improve the university as a whole...money Pitt does not have laying around. I'm sorry you have to drive to Peters after the game, but it isn't worth that type of capital expense.
Your attempted use of Pitt purchasing the Syria Mosque plot as some sort of evidence that a stadium project has a lower bar to commence demonstrates that you're willing abandon logic and reality for your stadium zealotry. You're incessant harping on this places you among the kind of logicians that hang out your favorite conference realignment board.
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Yes it is.
Since the topic is fan support , even in the best of times and without the boogeyman of Steve and an on campus stadium ...
You know, if you would have bothered to read the content of my post before bloviating on a Steve tirade .
You mistake those who are tired of hearing flights of fantasy hypotheticals ...
With saying it's impossible .
It's not binary... It's very improbable .
As such endless discussion for years and years until something tangible occurs is silly and boring
Makes me wonder why this lot wasn't in play when we built the Pete. An arena/performance venue at the center of campus would have made a lot of sense, as nice as the Pete is.
People who understand the mission of universities? You mean the administrations of the 99% of colleges in Div 1 who have their own on campus stadiums and see the benefits of doing so? Sorry but I see no reason that Pitt should be the one shining outlier in all of Div. 1 sports which understands the meaning of fiscal responsibility, particularly when doing so hurts their number one revenue generating sport.
Building an on campus stadium would be just like building a NASCAR track. Gotcha.
Pitt is just like Miami even though Miami has never had an on-campus stadium. You betcha.
Steve Pederson wasn't a problem, Pitt's fans are the problem. Okay.
Reasonable discussion. I've learned a lot here. Thanks guys.
Pitt is just like Miami even though Miami has never had an on-campus stadium. You betcha.
Steve Pederson wasn't a problem, Pitt's fans are the problem. Okay.
Reasonable discussion. I've learned a lot here. Thanks guys.
Everyone can do it except Pitt---sometimes I wonder how any of these people survived in life
Exactly, the sheer near sightedness and rigidity of the opponents of an on-campus stadium are mind boggling!
As usual....hyperbole from you. I'd love an on-campus stadium...hated Pitt razing Pitt Stadium. But it can't be undone, so look at the current situation, and make smart decisions, now.
As for revenue...no question, FB rules. As for COSTS, well, FB rules there, too. We haven't been positive on the P&L for.....80 years, maybe?? So how does it make sense to spend hundreds of million to build a stadium with LOWER capacity than our rented facility 3 miles away??? We'd become more like Rutgers or BC with a place like that. Hell, we couldn't fill Pitt Stadium more than once or twice a year to see top teams under Majors & Sherrill.
Throw in the imputed costs of a $400 million dollar little gem....6% or more per year (Upkeep + financing.) and the Board + Admin. deserve to lose their jobs. There's more interest in Script Pitt than going to games on campus.
We are seen as being like Rutgers and BC now – except with an off-campus stadium that is way too large for us.
Just a couple of thoughts. First, in Pitt's very unusual case, where for most of the last 80 years in which FB has been treated like a stepchild, I don't think the past is a reliable predictor of what the future could bring attendance wise or what the ceiling for what FB can be. I am a great proponent of the view that we create and chart our own destinies and therefore Pitt can do just that. Why set modest goals? Second, yea Heinz is a decent facility but its location deters student attendance,prevents Pitt from controlling game start times which also hurts attendance and severs the bonds which connect alums to the campus which hurts both attendance and giving. I say go for the gusto and don't settle for anything less.
On my way to the burgh now for the Duke game. Will you be the guy in in the batman outfit? I'll be looking for you.
What I cant understand is the absolute passion from about 20 posters who hope to no end that we will never play on-campus. I mean, NTOP is old and doesn't want to walk far or sit in traffic but if you are under 50, hiw can you be so passionate about NOT playing on-campus. Its ok to have the opinion that its a waste of money, Heinz is fine, etc but to spend hours ridiculing any idea to play on-campus, thats what I dont understand.
Who in the world would that be? Drama much? Luckily we ARE all on the same team here, just see things differently.
I enjoyed the discussion, learned much more than I knew before, and respect many of the arguments and opinions from all Posters based on the information, and thank everyone sharing that on the Lair to read.
It starts with a leader's vision, then more leadership to implement a plan, then the realistic creative action to make it happen among the right people in the right places to complete the vision, plans, and cost.
I know from professional experience when those meetings happen, the naysayers are quickly no longer invited to the meetings. Only the ones that can and will make it happen will decide when it will happen.
I learned it a long time ago and taught by a Legislator. When 5 Bridges were needed to be repaired and a Congressman in charge of helping to secure some of the funding said to him, in our next meeting anyone that says it can't happen, don't invite them back to our meetings. We need to be together and it is going to happen so get on board and keep the naysayers out.
The same happen when the Stadium Referendums were voted down by the people and then there were meetings set up in The Union League and Duquesne Clubs, and Elsie Hillman quietly asked, we need ideas to get these facilities built, and it happen and that was just over Baseball Parks first, then Football Stadiums, and then Hockey and then Casinos.
All I know is, no one thought or saw Steve Pederson as A.D. would ever be let go at Pitt, but it happen! Even Steve got surprised on that happening too.
When the time comes, the right people in the right places will make it happen. This includes Chancellor Gallagher, people like Dr. Juhl, AD. Barnes, Coach Narduzzi, and Contributors, Benefactors, Federal, State and Local Political Officials, Unions and Investment entities.
Where and How may still be unknown as well as When for right now.
However, Penn State Beaver Stadium Is being renovated or rebuilt for Penn State to stay competitively after a scandal that has hurt them deeply financially during many Civil Lawsuits and remaining Criminal matters.
Temple needs to upgrade its facilities to remain competitive and attractive in College Athletics and redeveloping that area of Philadelphia is a priority to expand future developments.
Pitt won't be left out and the right people will get it done!
It starts with a leader's vision, then more leadership to implement a plan, then the realistic creative action to make it happen among the right people in the right places to complete the vision, plans, and cost.
I know from professional experience when those meetings happen, the naysayers are quickly no longer invited to the meetings. Only the ones that can and will make it happen will decide when it will happen.
I learned it a long time ago and taught by a Legislator. When 5 Bridges were needed to be repaired and a Congressman in charge of helping to secure some of the funding said to him, in our next meeting anyone that says it can't happen, don't invite them back to our meetings. We need to be together and it is going to happen so get on board and keep the naysayers out.
The same happen when the Stadium Referendums were voted down by the people and then there were meetings set up in The Union League and Duquesne Clubs, and Elsie Hillman quietly asked, we need ideas to get these facilities built, and it happen and that was just over Baseball Parks first, then Football Stadiums, and then Hockey and then Casinos.
All I know is, no one thought or saw Steve Pederson as A.D. would ever be let go at Pitt, but it happen! Even Steve got surprised on that happening too.
When the time comes, the right people in the right places will make it happen. This includes Chancellor Gallagher, people like Dr. Juhl, AD. Barnes, Coach Narduzzi, and Contributors, Benefactors, Federal, State and Local Political Officials, Unions and Investment entities.
Where and How may still be unknown as well as When for right now.
However, Penn State Beaver Stadium Is being renovated or rebuilt for Penn State to stay competitively after a scandal that has hurt them deeply financially during many Civil Lawsuits and remaining Criminal matters.
Temple needs to upgrade its facilities to remain competitive and attractive in College Athletics and redeveloping that area of Philadelphia is a priority to expand future developments.
Pitt won't be left out and the right people will get it done!
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TV controls kickoff times. I guess you didn't get the postcard. Swap the crystal set and drag your ass into the 21st century.
I'll alert the plumbing crew that a really BIG shot is on the way.
Keep dreaming about a new set of operating rules. Ain't happening. Talked to Dave T. today.....another 75 large to CMU. I asked him about FB...said he didn't give a rip, offered me some junk bonds at a discount to the market, his hedge fund is slipping.
Is every game televised? I guess I missed that announcement. I guess you also haven't realized that even if the game is televised Nutsack's sad sack's schedule restricts the available time slots when the game can be played. Are you always this grumpy before bedtime? Sheesh! And people wonder why discussions break down into hand to hand combat.
I think PSU is wise to downsize Beaver. The attendance will be cut to a still huge number but the experience will improve and the beaucoup dollars will flow into luxury amenities much like Pitt has at Heinz.
IMHO, Pitt would be wise to focus on other needs. The parking lot above the Pete and cradling the Cost Center would be a great place for intramural fields above a new parking garage. That space is woefully underutilized.
If an underground lot can be built at Soldiers and Sailors, then that spot can be reconfigured. The communications tower as well.
But building a stadium in the face of an uncertain future for CFB is too financially risky...again IMHO.
As for the spot recently purchased, I suggest a sea of tranquility amidst the architectural gems surrounding it...yes, nothing more and nothing less than grass and trees and shrubs.
No....but that's the reality of playing in a CITY.
No it's the reality of giving up control over your own destiny because of shortsighted stupidity. Welcome to Nerdy's world. Guy should have been headmaster at Shady Side Academy.
Consistent with the past administration's ostrich like view of the world, surprised it wasn't done.
Or that it tarnishes the image ( rightfully so ) of the Grand Imperial Wizard, Nerdy and his lapdog Steveee. Their honor must be defended by the Academicians.
Pitt run by the Dumbest "Smart People" to walk the face of the earth ( Sans Chancellor Gallagher as he's trying )
The Duke basketball game with 12k maxed out Oakland. Parking, restaurants, everything.
I thought for a second, stick a stadium with everything a P5 program needs smack in the middle here, and the place would self destruct in its current state. Nearly every ancillary city service would have to be expanded to handle it. The problem is Pitt has control over very little of them.
I thought for a second, stick a stadium with everything a P5 program needs smack in the middle here, and the place would self destruct in its current state. Nearly every ancillary city service would have to be expanded to handle it. The problem is Pitt has control over very little of them.
I'm not interested in participating in the nastiness, name-calling or recriminations. That's for the weak minded amongst us.
Just because someone had the temerity to disagree with you doesn't mean you have to viciously attack everything about them. It's okay for people to disagree – even about something as important as sports. Taking those disagreements personally is weird, IMO.
I don't care what anyone says, this is a legitimate and complex issue and it should be discussed in a respectful manner – even if you vehemently disagree with someone.
I don't think the people who disagree with me are idiots or bad people or Nordenberg/Pederson apologists or any of that nonsense. I simply don't agree with them that building a stadium in Oakland is an impossibility or a wild-eyed pipe dream.
Of course it's possible. That doesn't mean it's a good idea and it certainly doesn't mean it would be easy. But it is absolutely possible – just like it has been at a myriad of other schools in strikingly similar circumstances all over the country.
Just because someone had the temerity to disagree with you doesn't mean you have to viciously attack everything about them. It's okay for people to disagree – even about something as important as sports. Taking those disagreements personally is weird, IMO.
I don't care what anyone says, this is a legitimate and complex issue and it should be discussed in a respectful manner – even if you vehemently disagree with someone.
I don't think the people who disagree with me are idiots or bad people or Nordenberg/Pederson apologists or any of that nonsense. I simply don't agree with them that building a stadium in Oakland is an impossibility or a wild-eyed pipe dream.
Of course it's possible. That doesn't mean it's a good idea and it certainly doesn't mean it would be easy. But it is absolutely possible – just like it has been at a myriad of other schools in strikingly similar circumstances all over the country.
So how on earth did we ever do it when it was here 20 years ago? Did "motorcars" not exist in the 1990s?
Why can't people be honest about this issue – on both sides? Walking up Cardiac Hill was a complete pain in the arse, it really was. Also, Oakland could be a real bear to get in and out of before and after Panthers home games. Those two things are unequivocally true and anyone who lived through that era knows as much.
However, people still did it and most people loved it despite those drawbacks. Why? Because at its best, Pitt Stadium offered a better atmosphere for Pitt games than Heinz Field does at its best. There's just no doubt about that.
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