OT: Question re: Johnstown's Point Stadium

[HailToPitt725]

Paging @LGP81 @upj87 @BIGPanther or any of our other Johnstown residents

I've been doing some reading/studying up on Point Stadium in my free time lately; lots of history dating back to its opening in 1926 against the Murderers' Row Yankees. Always loved the unique configuration of the park around the street and river.

Anyways, I came across this old database entry on Charlie's Ballparks trying to find some pictures of the original stadium. In it, it discussed how MiLB almost returned to Johnstown but an agreement couldn't be reached with the city to relocate Johns Street in order to extend left field; instead the Eastern League expansion team went to Altoona. This is something I do not recall hearing about and could not find any other article to corroborate this. Since the Altoona Curve began play in 1999, I'd imagine these talks took place in the late 1990s. Two questions,

1) Does anyone know how close this was to actually happening?
2) What do they mean by relocating Johns Street? How would they have done this? Would they have just shut down the street and relocated traffic? Purchased the adjacent properties on Johns St (Suppes Ford) and moved the street back?

Interesting nonetheless and would love to know if anyone on the board has insight into this. Thanks.

 

[PharMorNightStocker]

Per Wiki, it looks like they did move the fence back 28 feet in 2005, so it sounds like the answers to your question may have already happened, if I'm reading it correctly.

I remember checking out a AAABA tournament here back in the day, if that sounds correct. Or maybe that was somewhere else and I saw a Johnstown Steal game at Point Stadium. What exactly was the Johnstown Steal? I've always thought they were essentially the baseball equivalent of the Johnstown Chiefs, Wheeling Nailers, Cleveland Monsters, etc... which is to say professional as opposed to an MLB minor league affiliate or anything like that.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Per Wiki, it looks like they did move the fence back 28 feet in 2005, so it sounds like the answers to your question may have already happened, if I'm reading it correctly.

I remember checking out a AAABA tournament here back in the day, if that sounds correct. Or maybe that was somewhere else and I saw a Johnstown Steal game at Point Stadium. What exactly was the Johnstown Steal? I've always thought they were essentially the baseball equivalent of the Johnstown Chiefs, Wheeling Nailers, Cleveland Monsters, etc... which is to say professional as opposed to an MLB minor league affiliate or anything like that.

Yes and no. They did extend left field but not by reconfiguing the street; instead they tore down the original grandstands and moved home plate back by that much to stay within the property. This allowed them to extend the playing field but did reduce some of its capacity in the process.

IIRC, the AAABA tournament is still played at the Point and has been there since the late 40s/early 50s, so you likley did see it there. As for the Johnstown Steel, they were an independent minor league team. Basically they were a little below the Chiefs/Nailers because the league they were apart of did not have a major league affiliate; a good comparison would be the Washington Wild Things. What's significant about the OP is that apparently they would have landed a AA minor league team and likely would have been affiliated with the Pirates.

 

[PharMorNightStocker]

Yes and no. They did extend left field but not by reconfiguing the street; instead they tore down the original grandstands and moved home plate back by that much to stay within the property. This allowed them to extend the playing field but did reduce some of its capacity in the process.

IIRC, the AABA tournament is still played at the Point and has been there since the late 40s/early 50s, so you likley did see it there. As for the Johnstown Steel, they were an independent minor league team. Basically they were a little below the Chiefs/Nailers because the league they were apart of did not have a major league affiliate; a good comparison would be the Washington Wild Things. What's significant about the OP is that apparently they would have landed a AA minor league team and likely would have been affiliated with the Pirates.

I'm pretty sure I recall watching a prior round somewhere near there the day before (or maybe a few days) and then watching the championship there. But maybe I'm mixing years or something. And then I believe I also saw the Steal play, because the uniforms I was thinking of in my head are apparently the exact ones they wore, haha.

And I didn't even realize those teams had NHL affiliates, but I don't follow hockey. Wild Things is a better example... you're right. I thought that's what the Chiefs and Nailers were.

So what the hell is an independent minor league team? Lol. Is that just a nice way of saying they don't get paid? I've heard of independent leagues, but never independent minor leagues.

Interesting to think they would have been what the Curve is. The Pirates' MLB players might never come back from their rehab assignments if they had to spend a few nights in Johnstown. They might throw themselves in front of the incline!

 

[HailToPitt725]

I'm pretty sure I recall watching a prior round somewhere near there the day before (or maybe a few days) and then watching the championship there. But maybe I'm mixing years or something. And then I believe I also saw the Steal play, because the uniforms I was thinking of in my head are apparently the exact ones they wore, haha.

And I didn't even realize those teams had NHL affiliates, but I don't follow hockey. Wild Things is a better example... you're right. I thought that's what the Chiefs and Nailers were.

So what the hell is an independent minor league team? Lol. Is that just a nice way of saying they don't get paid? I've heard of independent leagues, but never independent minor leagues.

Interesting to think they would have been what the Curve is. The Pirates' MLB players might never come back from their rehab assignments if they had to spend a few nights in Johnstown. They might throw themselves in front of the incline!

If you watched the earlier rounds then those might've been played in Altoona.

Yeah, most of the ECHL has NHL affiliates; for example, the Nailers are affiliated to the Penguins and the Chiefs were affiliated to the Bruins. However, there's only like 26 or so teams so there's a few ECHL teams that don't have an NHL/AHL affiliate and a few NHL teams that only have AHL affiliates.

An independent league team is basically a minor league team without the affiliation. I got my wording wrong so when I said indy minor league, I meant indepedent league, my bad. IIRC they do get paid but it's very minimal; I'd basically call them semi-pro teams.

I would've loved to see Johnstown have a AA team and be affiliated with the Bucs, just like I wish we still had an ECHL team and was affiliated with the Pens. I only assumed they'd be affiliated with them since the Curve are but Altoona has a really nice stadium so perhaps, for example, Erie keeps their Pirates affiliation and Johnstown latches on to someone else. Regardless, it would've been awesome to a team like that back in Johnstown and gotten the chance to see guys like McCutchen at the Point. But you may not be wrong regarding the incline. Perhaps it's no coincidence that it's right near the stadium!

 

[PharMorNightStocker]

If you watched the earlier rounds then those might've been played in Altoona.

Yeah, most of the ECHL has NHL affiliates; for example, the Nailers are affiliated to the Penguins and the Chiefs were affiliated to the Bruins. However, there's only like 26 or so teams so there's a few ECHL teams that don't have an NHL/AHL affiliate and a few NHL teams that only have AHL affiliates.

An independent league team is basically a minor league team without the affiliation. I got my wording wrong so when I said indy minor league, I meant indepedent league, my bad. IIRC they do get paid but it's very minor minimals; I'd basically call them semi-pro teams.

I would've loved to see Johnstown have a AA team and be affiliated with the Bucs, just like I wish we still had an ECHL team and was affiliated with the Pens. I only assumed they'd be affiliated with them since the Curve are but Altoona has a really nice stadium so perhaps, for example, Erie keeps their Pirates affiliation and Johnstown latches on to someone else. Regardless, it would've been awesome to a team like that back in Johnstown and gotten the chance to see guys like McCutchen at the Point. But you may not be wrong regarding the incline. Perhaps it's no coincidence that it's right near the stadium!

I just assumed they would always want a minor league affiliate within driving distance for cerrain rehab stints, but I guess you're right... maybe that would have just been Erie.

I wish I could remember where I would have seen that prior round. It wasn't Altoona, but I doubt they would have played it in Roxbury or something. I'm not even sure if that's big enough. I remember they used outfield fences that were temporary, haha... I'm sure that really narrows it down.

 

[wbrpanther]

I'm pretty sure I recall watching a prior round somewhere near there the day before (or maybe a few days) and then watching the championship there. But maybe I'm mixing years or something. And then I believe I also saw the Steal play, because the uniforms I was thinking of in my head are apparently the exact ones they wore, haha.

And I didn't even realize those teams had NHL affiliates, but I don't follow hockey. Wild Things is a better example... you're right. I thought that's what the Chiefs and Nailers were.

So what the hell is an independent minor league team? Lol. Is that just a nice way of saying they don't get paid? I've heard of independent leagues, but never independent minor leagues.

Interesting to think they would have been what the Curve is. The Pirates' MLB players might never come back from their rehab assignments if they had to spend a few nights in Johnstown. They might throw themselves in front of the incline!

Funny this came up today. The AAABA tourney for this year was officially cancelled today.

The tournament uses different field along with the Point the first few rounds till they pare down the field. Some of the sites are Roxbury, Lilly, Portage, Highland, Seward and a few others over the years.

 

[HailToPitt725]

I just assumed they would always want a minor league affiliate within driving distance for cerrain rehab stints, but I guess you're right... maybe that would have just been Erie.

I wish I could remember where I would have seen that prior round. It wasn't Altoona, but I doubt they would have played it in Roxbury or something. I'm not even sure if that's big enough. I remember they used outfield fences that were temporary, haha... I'm sure that really narrows it down.

Maybe the sites WBR listed could be it. Perhaps you did see it at the Point? It had temporary outfield fences back in the day. This look familiar to you at all?

The only reason why I say Erie might've been the AA affiliate had Johnstown been granted a franchise is because Erie was already a Pirates minor league team at the time, one of their single A teams. They eventually chose Altoona because of how nice the stadium. Not sure if renovated Point Stadium would've been enough for them to also move on from Erie, but they would've landed in someone's farm system nonetheless.

 

[PharMorNightStocker]

Maybe the sites WBR listed could be it. Perhaps you did see it at the Point? It had temporary outfield fences back in the day. This look familiar to you at all?

The only reason why I say Erie might've been the AA affiliate had Johnstown been granted a franchise is because Erie was already a Pirates minor league team at the time, one of their single A teams. They eventually chose Altoona because of how nice the stadium. Not sure if renovated Point Stadium would've been enough for them to also move on from Erie, but they would've landed in someone's farm system nonetheless.

It definitely wasn't the Point... I've always known that stadium. I want to say you had to walk up a small grass hill from the parking lot to get to the field, but don't quote me on that, haha. I texted my dad... maybe he'll shed some light on the mystery.

And yeah... I just meant if Johnstown was granted an AA team instead of Altoona and that team wasn't a Pirate affiliate, then maybe they would have kept the Sea Wolves (if Erie even still is the Sea Wolves, lol) to have a local option. Is Erie still a Tigers affiliate? I can't even keep up these days. I know the Spikes went from Pirates to Cardinals, but I want to say I heard they might be getting rid of them entirely. I still remember the freaking Carolina Mudcats days, haha.

Edit: I asked my dad where the AAABA game before the one at Point Stadium was at, and he replied "Point Stadium." So he might have to work on his reading comprehension.

Edit Edit: He said it might have been Highland Field. I can neither confirm not deny, because I have no idea what that is.

 

[pittdan77]

I don’t ever recall Johnstown being in the running against Altoona. Not seriously, anyway. It all happened because MLB expanded with Tampa and Arizona. The EL somehow ended up getting the teams. It came down to Erie, Altoona, and Springfield, Mass. Erie was a shoe-in because they had a really good following with their short season club. Springfield was in line to get the other slot but the Altoona group pulled a lot of strings in Harrisburg to get support ($$$) and ended up winning. The city had a lot of senior reps at the time and a senior congressman. One of the reasons I-99 happened in that valley instead of on 219, or so the story goes.

A lot of people assumed Erie would get the Pirates affiliate since they had the short season club. The assumption that they wanted a AA franchise closer was correct. Not sure how that all shook out but I assume the Pirates saw a pretty new stadium and better weather. They appear very happy with that choice.

 

[wbrpanther]

Funny this came up today. The AAABA young for this year was officially cancelled today.

The tournament uses different field along with the Point the first few rounds till they pare down the field. Some of the sites are Roxbury, Lilly, Portage, Highland, Seward and a few others over the years.

It definitely wasn't the Point... I've always known that stadium. I want to say you had to walk up a small grass hill from the parking lot to get to the field, but don't quote me on that, haha. I texted my dad... maybe he'll shed some light on the mystery.

And yeah... I just meant if Johnstown was granted an AA team instead of Altoona and that team wasn't a Pirate affiliate, then maybe they would have kept the Sea Wolves (if Erie even still is the Sea Wolves, lol) to have a local option. Is Erie still a Tigers affiliate? I can't even keep up these days. I know the Spikes went from Pirates to Cardinals, but I want to say I heard they might be getting rid of them entirely. I still remember the freaking Carolina Mudcats days, haha.

Edit: I asked my dad where the AAABA game before the one at Point Stadium was at, and he replied "Point Stadium." So he might have to work on his reading comprehension.

Edit Edit: He said it might have been Highland Field. I can neither confirm not deny, because I have no idea what that is.

Highland field is in the suburb of Geistown at the top of Walters Avenue behind the Armory. Sits back in the woods. No hill to walk up. I've never been to Seward, Lilly or Portage fields.

 

[HailToPitt725]

I don’t ever recall Johnstown being in the running against Altoona. Not seriously, anyway. It all happened because MLB expanded with Tampa and Arizona. The EL somehow ended up getting the teams. It came down to Erie, Altoona, and Springfield, Mass. Erie was a shoe-in because they had a really good following with their short season club. Springfield was in line to get the other slot but the Altoona group pulled a lot of strings in Harrisburg to get support ($$$) and ended up winning. The city had a lot of senior reps at the time and a senior congressman. One of the reasons I-99 happened in that valley instead of on 219, or so the story goes.

A lot of people assumed Erie would get the Pirates affiliate since they had the short season club. The assumption that they wanted a AA franchise closer was correct. Not sure how that all shook out but I assume the Pirates saw a pretty new stadium and better weather. They appear very happy with that choice.

That’s the history that I remember. Just perplexed as to where they got that information.

 

[BIGPanther]

Wow, I don't remember hearing that one at all.

The only pro-sports recollection I have regarding the Point was when the Steelers came up in 1987 during the strike year and conducted a training camp there for the replacement players. I remember there being some concern about how the local unions would react to having replacement players in town while the NFL players union was striking, but that didn't amount to much.

 

[pittdan77]

That’s the history that I remember. Just perplexed as to where they got that information.

It's possible that someone inquired on behalf of the city. Johnstown did play host to EL teams for short stints. I had to look that up.

Nothing against Johnstown. It's a shame to see what's happened over there. I think there is a combination of poor geography, an all too memorable history, and very poor marketing. You just can't call yourself "The Flood City" and then expect anyone to seriously invest. Up on the hill above the city has done much better.

It's kind of a shame that they lost their minor league hockey team but the Junior league team is pretty entertaining and has a good following. There was a brief run with an Arena 2 team but it was on the wrong side of the popularity of arena football. I knew a lot of the guys that were involved in that and it's too bad. Got to see Jared Lorenzen play QB one night. So that was cool.

 

[HailToPitt725]

It's possible that someone inquired on behalf of the city. Johnstown did play host to EL teams for short stints. I had to look that up.

Nothing against Johnstown. It's a shame to see what's happened over there. I think there is a combination of poor geography, an all too memorable history, and very poor marketing. You just can't call yourself "The Flood City" and then expect anyone to seriously invest. Up on the hill above the city has done much better.

It's kind of a shame that they lost their minor league hockey team but the Junior league team is pretty entertaining and has a good following. There was a brief run with an Arena 2 team but it was on the wrong side of the popularity of arena football. I knew a lot of the guys that were involved in that and it's too bad. Got to see Jared Lorenzen play QB one night. So that was cool.

Yeah you’re probably right. Doesn’t seem like they ran with Hockeyville USA much. I’d love to see an ECHL team return but they probably just don’t have the population for one at this point.

Also, are you talking about the Johnstown Riverhawks? I think I might’ve seen them play when they came to the St. John’s Arena in Steubenville to play the Stampede. Seems like forever ago now.

 

[pittdan77]

Yeah you’re probably right. Doesn’t seem like they ran with Hockeyville USA much. I’d love to see an ECHL team return but they probably just don’t have the population for one at this point.

Also, are you talking about the Johnstown Riverhawks? I think I might’ve seen them play when they came to the St. John’s Arena in Steubenville to play the Stampede. Seems like forever ago now.

Riverhawks were first. Some great local players like Quinteen Robinson. Then later, the Generals when Q was coach. Lot of locals on that team.

Edit: It’s been so long since I thought about those guys. I need to think back at some of the names. I can picture their faces. Great athletes. They’ve all spread out and I lost track of them.