OT: Steelers hire former Falcons HC
- Thread starter pittdan77
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The media just wants to hear themselves talk and the hoi paloi suck it all up. One week a WB sucks and the next week they are gods gift. I watched Purdy throw 3-4 4th quarter picks a few weeks ago and the mantra was that he’s trash. Now this week he’s awesome again. These QBs are largely a product of what’s around them.
Everyone is nitpicking the word "modern", maybe modernity isn't the right concept, maybe the Steelers offense is pathetic and sickens me based on risk tolerance? I personally want aggression, attack, high risk throws into dangerous areas with high risk and high reward, I want "chasing TDs" to be the priority over "protecting the ball" at all costs, people often complained Ben was picked off too much, but personally I'd be unhappy if he cut his picks in half and had an equal amount less TDs because he didn't risk the aggressive throw that could be a pick as easily as it could be a TD, I want the QB that cuts that ball loose rather than thinks twice to "protect the ball"
No, I'm describing Ben Roethlisberger. He almost always had double digit picks his entire career, but almost always 20-30 TDs to go with it-so it was worth it, I prefer that to minimizing picks by not throwing the aggressive balls that are at risk of going either way, very often Ben would throw a TD pass and you'd wonder how it wasn't picked.
For Tomlin it's not even that, he almost never even wants to call any play where Kenny might throw it to a risky spot, 1st and goal in the red zone is a good time to throw to say, the middle of the end zone, how often do they do that? just about NEVER. 99% a run, he's hoping they can break a TD run to avoid his FEAR, throwing it in scoring area.
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You can win single games with inferior talent and a good game plan. Happens all the time. But you're not going to win championships with inferior talent unless you catch a lot of breaks. You don't see it happen in the pros very often if at all.
Is your argument that the coach wants to play ultra-conservative football without risky passes but you're also saying he had a QB for most of his coaching career that didn't adhere to that strategy?No, I'm describing Ben Roethlisberger. He almost always had double digit picks his entire career, but almost always 20-30 TDs to go with it-so it was worth it, I prefer that to minimizing picks by not throwing the aggressive balls that are at risk of going either way, very often Ben would throw a TD pass and you'd wonder how it wasn't picked.
For Tomlin it's not even that, he almost never even wants to call any play where Kenny might throw it to a risky spot, 1st and goal in the red zone is a good time to throw to say, the middle of the end zone, how often do they do that? just about NEVER. 99% a run, he's hoping they can break a TD run to avoid his FEAR, throwing it in scoring area.
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Checkout the latest stats for Ben Roethlisberger. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.
I don’t want “modern”. I want wins. And if rooney football isn’t sexy but wins games then so be it. Average points per game in todays NFL isn’t any different than it was in any given year in the 60’s and 70’s. So this “unicorn” of modern football and points scored is just that…a unicorn.
Yes, and both can be true, I don't think they were aggressive enough when they had Ben. Ben had the skills to have multiple 4000-5000 yard seasons and 40TD seasons, yet he didn't have many and no 40TD seasons. And very often a lot of Ben's best plays and most aggressive throws where when the play had broken down and he was ad libing. Early in games throughout Ben's career they'd play ultra safe until they'd fall behand and have to turn it over to Ben because there was no other choice or the half was coming to an end, instead of just opening games aggressive and playing aggressive at any time when it wasn't urgent to do so. And I think the game plan has gotten more conservative since Ben left and Kenny won't take it upon himself to take the risks anyways as Ben would have.
OK, I can agree with that, and points and TDs and yardage don't matter when I see multiple wins in the playoffs, not just in October or November, win a couple ugly 17-13 games vs. KC and Buffalo in January on consecutive weeks and I'll agree with you that this plan is viable.
I would argue that Tomlin regresses to conservative, Wannstedtesque offense when possible. The O under Ben the last few years was meh. Who hired the OC's and installed their system? If he wanted a wide-open offense why did he hire Smith and Canada?
Listen, I have about as many answers as the next guy, but if I managed an organization and wanted aggressive performance/growth, I'd hire aggressive managers. If I wanted more of the same, I'd hire conservative managers who would change little but the nameplate on the door.
The problem I'm seeing with this team is the same one that has plagued us for like a dozen years. The defense we've mostly taken for granted the past handful of years (not saying it's been great at all times, but it's been mostly solid) is falling apart before our eyes... while we're still trying to fix the offense. This happened in reverse when Polamalu and company began to age out.
We've devoted the majority of our high-end draft capital to the offense for some time now, but we've hit on almost nobody in the later rounds on defense. Like we needed someone like Loudermilk (random example) to be a steal, and we just haven't had that. Even Leal (3rd round pick is pretty high in my book) seems like just not have it.
We used to hit on mid/later round guys pretty regularly, it seemed. Ike in the 4th, AB in the 6th, Kemoeatu in the 5th, etc. Just feels like we see less of that lately. Then again, we don't even hit on our 1st and 2nd rounders anymore.
So if you are of the belief that the talent is mediocre, what are you expecting out of the OC?
He also hired Arians and Haley
So
That’s nonsense
What about Canada indicated conservative ?
This is silly revisionist history
Agree with the overall point that you're making. We've had roster talent imbalances and that has prevented us from having a really special season. I'm of the mind that a lot of that can be fixed by simply drafting better players and not worrying about positional need. If an OT is the best guy on the board and you have 2 good OTs, just take him and figure it out. Maybe one of them gets hurt, maybe you just found a new OG, maybe you can trade one for a haul like the Dolphins did with Tunsil? In any event, collect the good players on the roster first and worry about syncing it all up later.
2024 is make or break for Kenny. And if we hit on an OL and a DB, we should still have a solid-enough team to be a contender going into 2025. Yes, being a QB away stinks but we're probably the best QB away team in the league by a wide margin. Pretty much everyone on our team is under team control for the next few years. No reason to think that a veteran QB wouldn't love to come to a team with a good OL, good weapons, and good D. Plus people love Tomlin. Bottom line is that the Steelers are a playoff team despite getting basically nothing from QB and with a stone age/backwards system. That's good! There really aren't too many problems to be solved.
As far as mid-late round gems, that's always a tough ask. But Jaylen Warren and Highsmith are quality players. Nick Herbig and Calvin Austin look like contributors. Some team-followers like Cory Trice. Find 1-2 more guys who can deliver on a minority of snaps in the 2024 class and all of the sudden things are looking up again.
I had to unblock you to see what you said. Of course you said something about my post. Back to ignore.
Yeah
That’s seems to be how it works in sports talk radio land
Bad draft picks - Tomlin
Good picks - Colbert
Bad coaching hires-tomlin
Good hires -rooney
Then the usual local reporters run the same gameplan every couple years
I have no ideas why you’re oucy
But I’ll note you didn’t answer a simple question
Ahhhh. I see. You’re falling back to your Tomlin defense strategy by blaming the media whenever something doesn’t fit a narrative.
I was just pointing that out. I wasn’t aware that Haley was that highly regarded. Personally I liked him.
Here’s another sports radio nugget that won’t fit your narrative. it was also Rooney who forced Arians out. And Arians was a Tomlin hire who did pretty well. So there’s that.
The media generally calls it like it is. Rooney foisted Haley on Tomlin, and Rooney took Arians away from Tomlin.
Tomlin can be fired tomorrow and I won’t lose a wink of sleep
Haley was literally good enough to be a HC after being oc for Arizona
They hired by the Browns after we canned him
The local media doesn’t call anything like it is
That’s the entire point of my last post
It’s all narratives to feed the yinzer consumers what they already believe
It’s their schtick
Hey did you hear about Kordell in Schenley park ?
Ben forced Arians out . Because the Rooney’s loved him
He also forced Finctner to be hired as OC
Yeah if people haven't noticed, those offenses like Moon ran with the Oilers, and some of those huge passing offenses have backed off into more balance. Physical football has made a comeback.
At least overhaul the system 100% and take your lumps, maybe have a losing record and get in position to draft better talent, especially QB.
He hindered Ben, Ben should have played aggressive way more than he did. You're stupid if you watched those games and didn't feel like they played really conservative until there was no other choice but to open it up, they should have played entire games opened up.
But in that comeback I don't think the best teams have a passing game as weak and putrid and pathetic and non-productive as Kenny and the 2 Dwarfs, Josh Dobbs threw as many TD passes as those 3 combined
It was the coaches who are conservative until they need a QB to rescue them and not be conservative but now the QB has decided to be conservative so the coaches have to be more conservative....wait, did Tomlin sabotage Ben's career, too?
The teams Moon played on were 0.500 and folded pretty quickly in the postseason most of the time. It's weird how passing kind of goes to shit when the weather starts to suck although Moon found ways to lose at home, in the dome, too. Remember when Cody Carlson was a Steeler killer, LOL?
He didn't sabotage it, it's still hall of fame 1st ballot, but Ben could have done more stats wise with a more aggressive offense and play calling and better passing concepts.
Yeah, thank God Brady, Favre, Rodgers, Elway, Jim Kelly, Eli, Josh Allen, Mahomes, Burrow all played in warm weather cities.
So you're saying you never noticed this ever in any games with Ben playing for Tomlin? You say this never happened?
A lot of it is, you can't say he's been very good unless you're a delusional Pitt homer. He's had a few good drives here and there and maybe played well 10% of the time at most, but overall, he's been pretty bad, if you're being objective. If he had been from Penn State a lot of you would be happy he's playing that way and calling for him to be cut for being a pedo and making Canada look bad
They’d each have another Super Bowl if Ben didn’t throw 2 IntS including a pick 6 against GB in the first half
You’ve proven to be silly
So Ben would have been better if the Steelers were more aggressive or would Ben have been better if he was more aggressive?
INTs happen, I don't mind them, if you don't throw any, I figure you're passing on chances to throw TDs.
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