no clue why they dont play Warren more. i'd play Warren on first and 2nd down more than 50% of the time going forward.
OT: Stillers
- Thread starter mike 301
- Start date
Hate to say it, but I don't think Kenny is the guy either. I think he could do okay in a phenomenal system with great protection. But he's a 90's quarterback by my estimation. The better guys playing the position now are on a whole different planet. They just zip the ball so effortlessly all over the field. The pass Pickett threw yesterday that Tony Romo called a "bullet" was more like a lingering frisbee. And I don't think he's immobile by any means, but some of these guys are basically second running backs.
I think he "gets it" and all that, but he just doesn't have the tools that defenses have to respect. I don't know... Kirk Cousins is 6-1 and Daniel Jones is 6-2, so maybe I'm being too harsh. I just don't know that I can see him competing for championships. Again, maybe if the team around him is phenomenal, but how realistic is that? Right now, we need a guy who can make plays by himself.
he's 3 games in on his career lol.
It's not a performance thing. It's a tools thing. I'm just looking at how long his ball take to travel in the air compared to some of these other guys, and the difference is quite sobering. Allen throws a harder ball off one foot while falling backwards than Pickett does with perfect mechanics. But it's not just Allen.
I think his pro career could follow his college career. He needs multiple years to figure things out and then ‘clicks’ about year 4. Then as long as he’s healthy with a solid team around him, he’d be really good. Problem is he likely doesn’t have the luxury in the NFL. With Pitt he had a program that really didn’t care too much about winning, and gave him the patience and continued PT until it worked out for him.
The Steelers need a bad season or two, everyone from the owner on down has been content with compete for the division and see where it goes in the playoffs. Plus they need a pick or two in the top 10.
Yeah, I was thinking that with Geno Smith yesterday. Like you almost have to get pretty lucky to be able to be able to gain that type of experience and actually have another chance to be the guy at some point. And really - he's only playing because, like the Lions with Goff this season, I don't think Seattle truly believed they ha any chance at competing; he's just been a pleasant surprise.
But I don't think Kenny's age will do him any favors in that area. Daniel Jones was probably within an eyelash of being written off already, and he's only a year older.
Oh my God, you killed Kenny !! You bastard !!
I think he could do okay in a phenomenal system with great protection... Just wondering, how would the other qb studs in the league do with a schitty system and no protection (aka 2022 Pittsburgh Steelers)?
Isn't there anything in between a great system with a bunch of pro bowl linemen and what the Steelers have this year?
The Bengals made a Super Bowl with shitty linemen last season, so it can certainly be done if you can overcome it. I just don't know that Kenny can.
I wonder why Kenny throws short 90% of the time-and it often looks like the 1st option, and when he throws longer, 90% of the time it's along the sideline and the WR has to make a contested catch? Why so little across the middle 10-20 yards, he can make those throws. Other teams, seems like they have receivers running free in that area all the time. Is it a bad scheme? Is it that our receivers aren't as talented as they think, just over rated?
I’ll be honest what Im seeing is, an example of Antonio Brown, he was incredible route runner, but if he was covered on that first route he never stopped moving trying to get open anyway possible for his quarterback. Our wide receivers run the route and when they’re stuffed by the cornerback they just give up.
the more i watch this team, the more i am convinced it's Canada who is the biggest issue..
Agree that Johnson seems to have an uncanny ability to get completely taken out of the play. Probably too many reps with fastest-release-time-in-NFL-history Ben, as opposed to drawing-up-plays-in-the-dirt-and-buying-time Ben.
yes and Josh Allen had a 52% completion percentage with more ints than tds his first year...good thing no one wrote him off after a few games..
can't believe I am defending Kenny the quitter here...I might need to hit the bourbon early tonight...
Like I said, I'm not looking at the results. I wouldn't expect anybody to succeed in this system and behind this line. It's really just about the lack of arm strength. I wasn't sure how noticeable it would be, but it's quite noticeable. Five back shoulder throws per game are neat and all, but I'm pretty confident defenses will start taking those away.
He has no time for longer patterns to develop. He gets killed after 3 seconds or so. The OL is really bad.
The receivers aren’t anything special but they just don’t run patterns across the middle. Look at Tyreek Hill’s route tree then look at what the Steelers have their receivers do. It’s like they aren’t even playing the same sport.
Exactly what I was thinking during the Steelers/Dolphins game, Kenny could make all those throws Tua was making, and those receivers weren't often contested when the ball got to them.
To be fair, Kenny is leaving some throws out on the field that he has to start making.
What happened is that he's the same guy he's always been (at least so far). He is always looking to hit the home run rather than just take what is there to be taken.
And looking for the big run when he was at Alabama probably worked out really well for him. But the NFL is a completely different game. Hopefully he realizes that sooner rather than later.
Same thing they were doing with Mitch where the TV guys were putting it on him. I'm of the mindset that it's going to be very difficult to judge any QB until they get a competent OC.
Feel slightly bad for Mitch because this was probably his one chance to get a starting gig again someday.
I heard a great line about Najee. "He can't decide if he's Walter Payton, Barry Sanders or Derrick Henry, which is turning him into Trent Richardson."
With all due respect how the hell can you even evaluate Pickett under these circumstances, let alone make such a final determination?
- They're a bottom 10 rushing team
- They're a bottom half OL
- They're a bottom 8 defense in points allowed per game
- Kenny has started 3 games, all on the road against likely playoff teams; 2 against the best 2 defenses in football.
Kenny gets absolutely no help. The Titans had a 200 yard rushing game for their rookie QB on Sunday against a crap team. Kenny got fed to the wolves against a top 2 defense on the road after a bye.
Did he have a bad game? Yes. Did he miss reads and even throws? Yes. Is he being asked to be the entire offense despite the fact they have a 1st round RB? Yes.
Despite all of the above, Pickett is doing some things well. He has a better completion over expected rate than Justin Herbert and Patrick Mahomes. Prior to the Eagles game, he led the NFL in throws against pressure. Those two things are normally the longest things to develop as a QB.
Most important is that he's a rookie. He will get better. Do you know who else pretty much sucked as a rookie? Joe Burrow, Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, etc. Hell Jets fans are still defending Zach Wilson and he's 25 games in with a ton of offensive weapons, a good defense, and a supposed guru at OC.
Relax. Pickett played at Buffalo and at Philly (coming off a bye no less). Those teams shut down Kyler Murray, Trevor Lawrence, Stafford, Tannehill, Cousins, Lamar Jackson, and Aaron Rodgers to basically the same extent. You have to give him time and let him play, particularly some easier teams. If he sucks in 2023 they'll just finish in the top 10 again and they can take the dude from UNC or USC. But you have to give him a chance.
We get it, you want high ceiling guys like Zach Wilson and Trevor Lawrence whose interceptions travel 60 mph instead of Kenny's that only go 50.
That's a little exaggerated of a take. I was never one to smash the Pickett selection; I was genuinely excited about it, albeit a bit skeptical. I just don't think he can do what some of these other guys are doing. Like I said, if everything is in place, I think he'd do fine. But how long is that going to take? We have basically nothing in place on offense now, other than Friermuth (an average tight end) and Pickens.
I barely watch any NFL games. But I'm seeing guys that have a lot more arm and leg talents than he does. Doesn't mean they'll be better. It just means that the 6'4" guy, even if not as polished or as much a student of the game, as a better chance of playing point guard in the NBA than the 5'9" guy. I'm afraid that might be the case with Pickett.
QB traits are overrated. How many dudes with incredible physical traits fail? Zach Wilson has maybe the best arm I've ever seen. He's Houdini escaping pressure. His throws look incredible rocketing downfield before they're picked off by Devin McCourty. Who cares how good his arm is? He can't read a defense and he's the worst QB in the league under pressure. Same thing with Trevor Lawrence.
Can you get the ball to the right place at the right time? I think Kenny can. What's sinking him currently isn't the arm strength, it's missing open guys. Just not reading the field well. That should get better with more experience. I also think he's a dude that would make a huge jump with coaching and play design like Tua gets in Miami.
I'm not claiming that every Jamarcus Russell is going to have a great career. But I know there is a level of tangibles that you have to have to succeed. And I think Kenny has them but they come with a contingency, which is the pieces/system around him must be very good.
I'm seeing people sit here saying so and so is blanketed downfield. Well, do you know why that might be? Because they don't have to respect Kenny's arm. He's not going to throw a 25-yard laser to the flat that travels 50 yards in the air like Ben used to do. And when you know that's not a threat, you can tighten up the coverage. It's the same concept with not having to devote certain guys to certain places to protect against this legs. I'm not calling him immobile. I'm saying he has average mobility with a below average arm, and the combination isn't exactly deadly.
Again, I think he can succeed. But I think the formula is much more precise than what it would be for a lot of these guys.
I think partly is there is this expectation that QB's have to come in and maybe have a struggle for a year, but then become a star. And they don't give guys chance a develop at all. I mean look how many high drafted QB's have the Browns, the Jets, the Bengals, the Lions have ruined over the years.
Terry Bradshaw would have been cut after 3 seasons. Peyton Manning, Troy Aikman, John Elway, Josh Allen were not good to start. Struggled. Not every guy is Dan Marino, who was the most NFL ready QB ever.
Aaron Rodgers sat on the bench for a few years. So did Brady. Brett Favre was traded. It just seems like the NFL now expects these guys to win immediately. Ben came into a great situation and had a great team around him, that had a bad year but an incredibly stable franchise.
I am worried about Trevor Lawrence, came into one of the worst franchises in sports and a bad situation. Will he develop?
It's why all of this parsing and teeth gnashing of Kenny's first 4 games, I mean there is criticism deserved, but my god let's let the guy learn and make mistakes.
And look at Geno Smith all of a sudden.
And people calling Pickett a bust already, look at Trevor Lawrence or Zach Wilson so far, they were way more highly rated than Kenny
They should trade Watt for a bunch of picks and then draft Will Anderson to take his place. That kid is a stud. Then load up on the OL with the additional picks in Rounds 1 and 2.
And look at Geno Smith all of a sudden.
And people calling Pickett a bust already, look at Trevor Lawrence or Zach Wilson so far, they were way more highly rated than Kenny
Yep. Pickett is 4 games into his career and those other guys are 25+ and Pickett is statistically even with Lawrence this year and is outplaying Wilson. At least in the QB specific metrics.
Plus he played the Jets, at Buffalo, at Miami, and at Philly. Those are all good defenses. Lawrence got humiliated by the Texans and at the Colts.
And look at Geno Smith all of a sudden.
And people calling Pickett a bust already, look at Trevor Lawrence or Zach Wilson so far, they were way more highly rated than Kenny
Geno Smith was a guy who obviously had some maturing to do but was also put in a situation similar to KPs...bad teams, bad coaching. The whole debacle with him replacing Eli Manning for a game...kid had no chance, especially under the lens for both NY teams.
I'm sure Seattle is feeling really good about the decision they made to trade Wilson in light of his and Smith's performance.
I don't think KP will be a bust, though the jury is obviously still out as far as how high his ceiling will be. Need to see how he will perform with an actual NFL OC next season.
My fear is that the Steelers end up with a high enough draft pick and draft one of the top QBs and trade KP. Unlikely but it's happened before. Would be monumentally stupid but wouldn't put anything past this organization.
Fortunately neither Stroud nor Young looks all that impressive compared to certain other recent prospects. If a guy like Lawrence was there, it would be a lot more tempting.
Plus the Lions, Texans, and especially the Panthers all need QB badly. I think at worst 1 of Stroud or Young will be on the board, and even that is unlikely IMO. You don't boot Kenny for Will Levis.
Levis' stats are actually more respectable than I thought (although ypg and td/int numbers still are not good). I wouldn't mind him balling out in these last four games just to either have one more team ahead of us take a quarterback or, if we finish with a ridiculously awful final record, have some flexibility to be able to trade down to a team that needs him.
Yeah Steelers fans should be rooting for Stroud, Young, and Levis so we can get a package if any of them are on the board.
The Dolphins turned Trey Lance and some junk into Jaylen Waddle, Tyreek Hill, and Bradley Chubb. We need to be doing the same thing if we pick in the top 5.
Didn’t want to make another thread for this, but I think Steelers fans should be VERY optimistic about the future after yesterday. We’ll likely have three picks in the top 40; great way to start a rebuild.
If we finish bottom five, I think we’d even be in a prime position to pick up an additional first or second round draft pick and trade down with a QB-needy team (e.g. Indy). Definitely should have the chance to stockpile some talent at needy positions like the lines and the secondary.
If we finish bottom five, I think we’d even be in a prime position to pick up an additional first or second round draft pick and trade down with a QB-needy team (e.g. Indy). Definitely should have the chance to stockpile some talent at needy positions like the lines and the secondary.
Pickett was successful last year throwing to the slot and middle of the field.
This offense only seems to have go routes along the sideline, out routes 5-10 yards deep with no chance for YAC based on the route, and swing passes where we need blocking or make a guy miss.
Every other team seems to have the ability to throw 10-20 yards down the middle of the field to WRs, not only to TEs. That was Kenny forte last year and missing from Canada's offense.
This offense only seems to have go routes along the sideline, out routes 5-10 yards deep with no chance for YAC based on the route, and swing passes where we need blocking or make a guy miss.
Every other team seems to have the ability to throw 10-20 yards down the middle of the field to WRs, not only to TEs. That was Kenny forte last year and missing from Canada's offense.
Sorry, just now realizing that you pretty much said the same thing as my post an hour before me. Should’ve looked up!
id be more excited if i didnt see what our history under tomlin and colbert with 2nd round picks. i know colbert is gone now but i dont expect our GM (In name only) to have much influence in the war room...
Omar to me, I always thought of him as the accountant, like the cap guru? Does he qualify to judge football ability? I suppose he could get a Mel Kiper magazine and use the rankings and memorize a few blurbs to sound intelligent
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