OT: Stonewall Jackson
- Thread starter old pitt
- Start date
Merely because the fruit are generally grown in different geographical regions, much like the confederacy and nazi Germany..
Probably should have done a quick google search before you posed that question..
pittdan77
Athletic Director
A statue of an abolitionist who tried to end slavery was torn down in Wisconsin by anti racists.
The Lincoln memorial is under attack by some who want Lincoln's statue removed. There is now talk by BLM that Mt. Rushmore should be eliminated. Some statues should be torn down, but where will it end. Should Christian crosses be torn down because Muslims are offended. Should FDR statues be torn down because he interned Japanese citizens.
The Lincoln memorial is under attack by some who want Lincoln's statue removed. There is now talk by BLM that Mt. Rushmore should be eliminated. Some statues should be torn down, but where will it end. Should Christian crosses be torn down because Muslims are offended. Should FDR statues be torn down because he interned Japanese citizens.
It would be big deal to remove Stonewall Jackson from VMI. I attended VMI so I can give some context:
- Prior to the Civil War, Jackson was a professor at VMI teaching mathematics and artillery. While he was hated by the cadets (strict disciplinarian), he was well known in Lexington and he lead the cadets on many occasions away from the Institute including witness the hanging of John Brown.
- VMI Cadets took part in the Civil War and participated in battles in the Shenandoah valley. May 15, 1864 the Cadet Corps played a critical role in winning the battle of New Market with 10 cadets killed in action. The current corp honors his memory every May 15th reading off the names of the cadets during the parade and new cadets called "rats" march on the New Market battlefield tracing the steps of their fellow brother rates centuries before them.
- New cadet, salute the statue of Jackson as they depart the barracks each time. It's part of the tradition of bonding cadets to the history of the institute.
- Note Cadets are not part of the US military unless they have an ROTC scholarship. They are part of the Virginia militia, which the commonwealth of Virginia has used in times of need usually natural disaster. From the badges on our shakos to the flags on the parade ground, it's drummed into cadets heads about serving Virginia.
By the way, the 7th Panzer in the Bundeswehr honors one of their famous commanders, Erwin Rommel. This is something similar. Military units honor valor, discipline, and heritage to build esprit de corps in new recruits. Many of these traditions sound obsolete or odd to civilians but they are of way of bonding new recruits to the standards and traditions of the unit. This fits that definition and in that limited sense, I am comfortable with it.
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Anyone tearing down statues of Grant is a racist that wants white supremacy. That man enforced the fact that blacks were free after the civil war when a state or two tried to behave otherwise.
The real crime is the sympathy given towards FDR. That guy was a terrible racist that rounded up innocent Japanese Americans and put them into concentration camps. Some even praise him, and his statues are just fine
The real crime is the sympathy given towards FDR. That guy was a terrible racist that rounded up innocent Japanese Americans and put them into concentration camps. Some even praise him, and his statues are just fine
Rommel is honored in many ways in Germany:
- Three military bases named after the man.
- Numerous streets
- Large statue of him at his grave
- Heck, Italy even named a marathon after him for his sucess in WWI during the Battle of Caporetto.
Also the Suicide Stone monument and a highway named after him. Memorial plaques where he was born and several places where he lived.
Although FDR’s action was totally unjust as viewed in retrospect, it must be understood that at the time, following Pearl Harbor, the U.S. public incorrectly believed that the Japanese-American Community was full of spies and was worried that Japanese Americans would be more loyal to Imperial Japan than to the U.S. It is easy to apply today’s sensibilities to the past without understanding the circumstances at the time.
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The statues were erected to commemorate what they did on the battlefield. Yes, they had flaws and some of what they did is considered reprehensible today. But we can’t whitewash history and forget about all the other stuff they did because some people get offended.
And what is it that they did on the battlefield? Fought to dissolve the United States and maintain a slaveholding society. Why exactly should this be commemorated in the United States?
Statues say something about the people who erect them -- who they honor and what their community values. In the case of many Southern towns, they were honoring the Lost Cause and reinforcing Jim Crow. It was making a statement that the society they fought for was not defeated.
We generally don't erect statues to enemies of the United States. Is there a Yamamoto statue at Pearl Harbor? A Ho Chi Minh statue? A Bin Laden statue at the WTC? Ridiculous, right? So why are there statues of Confederate generals throughout this country? Because the people who erected the statues don't see them as traitors and don't see their ideals as discredited.
Romel was a hero for trying to assassinate Hitler, and paid the ultimate price for failure.
Its a "national story" like some "karen" melting down because her food was taking too long at a mcdees.
To be honest, I dont' have an issue with that statue or any other. I think statues are over rated, and we shouldn't be worshiping humans so if they went away via a democratic process, then I would be fine with that.
My point is that those tearing down statues aren't doing it on ethical and moral grounds, rather picking and choosing.
THere are battlefield memorials setup at LIttle Big Horn too for both sides...maybe the ones representing Indians, who fought hte US like the Confederacy, should go to...but I bet those ones stay like FDR
LOL. Why isn't anyone making the Cleveland Indians change their name? Is it because leftists like enemies of America... as long as they aren't other White enemies?
Some cynically claim that when you honor a "Statesman" with a statue or otherwise you are merely honoring a "dead politician." All people in all eras were flawed in one way or another and to a greater or lesser degree. Personally speaking, having grown up in the North, I was at a minimum bemused by seeing all the civil war Confederates statuary in Richmond when my son was in college there. Having an intellectual interest in the military history of the civil war I was interested in the figures represented not for their symbolism but for where they fit into that war's military history. That statuary would be best moved to a civil war museum so that it can be put in context for historians rather than celebrating these flawed individuals as some sort of political heroes. That being said, taking the statues down and moving them should be done legally and peacefully which should, at least in Richmond, be able to be accomplished since from what I observed while my son was in school there hardly anyone there today really retains any nostalgia for the ante-bellum and civil war South.
As you mention regarding about the Little Big Horn, history should be taught in its full context without glorifying one side or the other. Sometimes this is hard to do especially when too close to the events in time. An example of this is the debate over how the DC museum of American History (or was it the Air and Space museum would tell the story of the WWII use of the atom bomb. Heated verbal denbates ensued between those who believed the bombings were morally justified and those who believed the polar opposite. Eventually, a compromise was (at least temporarily) reached as to how to present the history.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
pittdan77
Athletic Director
They stopped doing the salute to Jackson for “rats” (as freshman are known) a while ago. There is also an outcry from alumni who believe the institution is still racist based on their own experience. I give the school some credit for moving the right direction even if it is painfully slow but there is currently a movement to remove the statue.
It is mind boggling.
The people virulently defending the confederacy glibly saying how much "leftists" hate America.
Literally only in America ...
A body of VMI cadets also fought during the Civil War, and not for the good guys.
Are you serious??
And most people who joined the KKK in the south in the 50’s and 60’s didn’t really want to harm African Americans, they were just scared and trying to defend their way of life. They incorrectly believed that blacks were inferior or violent. It is easy to apply today’s sensibilities to the past without understanding the circumstances at the time.
Both of those statements are stupid. What FDR did was despicable and RACIST. Don’t try to defend it at all.
The statues were erected to commemorate what they did on the battlefield. Yes, they had flaws and some of what they did is considered reprehensible today. But we can’t whitewash history and forget about all the other stuff they did because some people get offended.
"All the other stuff they did?" Like what? Please name something that Nathan Bedford Forrest did for the United States of America that deserves a statue.
Literally all that 99% of the Confederates did was declare and fight a war against America. Some of the older guys like Lee and Braxton Bragg also managed to beat up Mexico back in the 1840s. And as minor an achievement as that was, it went out the window when they resigned their commissions in the US Army and fought a war against their own people because they were mad about politics.
No way do we need statutes to commemorate the losers of a war fought against our country. Should we put up statutes of Albert Kesselring because of the way he used the Italian countryside to mangle our grandfathers at Monte Cassino?
Why do submissive leftists refuse to acknowledge the clear pattern of action set forth by their directors?
Gladly. https://www.battlefields.org/learn/...ar began when the,Courthouse on April 9, 1865.
"The war began when the Confederates bombarded Union soldiers at Fort Sumter, South Carolina on April 12, 1861."
I think they wrote it on the first cannonball they sent over to Fort Sumter.
https://www.nytimes.com/1861/04/29/archives/the-fort-sumter-correspondence.html
So you're saying the war declaration was written on a document in Fort Sumter and got destroyed by cannon fire?
I'll see your "The war began when the Confederates bombarded Union soldiers at Fort Sumter' and raise you "The war began when the Union tried to reinforce a Fort that was no longer on Union property but was instead then standing on South Carolinian soil"
Don't forget, the winners get to write the history. The losers get to whine.
If the Ole Confederacy wanted a happy ending, they should have fought harder.
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