OT: TCU vs Arizona

[HailToPitt725]

I love Pitt, but the coaching in hoops hasn't been good for like 10+ years. And before that, the postseason chokes were aggravating. Hopefully, someone, anyone can turn this around.

I can agree with this. I tried to stay out of this argument, like most on here, because people only see things in black and white. Is Dixon a good coach? Yes. Did he underachieve in the tournament? Also yes.

Like you said, hopefully we can get this thing turned around sooner than later. We have too much history (and potential) to be this bad.

 

[TD_6082]

Makes me wonder what could’ve been. Then again, perhaps a fresh start was what he needed.

It was exactly what he needed. He had hit the wall at Pitt & the trend was obvious. Had he stayed, I think he would have been straight up shit-canned within 2 years and probably would have ended up at a mid-major as a landing spot. And to be totally honest, I think it would probably cratered so badly, that nobody on here would even question the decision to move in another direction.

The product was stale and the program was declining. Pitt was a total non-factor in conference play, conference tourneys, or in March. Fan interest was waning. And it wasn't a 2 or 3 year thing... this was a pretty steep 5 year decline.

He had taken Pitt as far as he could. Things were going the wrong direction & he never seemed to be optimistic or welcoming about the move to the ACC. I think he needed a change of scenery.

 

[TD_6082]

He needs to learn to stay off the 8/9 seed line. Guaranteed win for the opposing team in round 2

Round 2 wasn't kind last time he was a 1 seed.

Just saying.

 

[KennyHeisman8]

It was exactly what he needed. He had hit the wall at Pitt & the trend was obvious. Had he stayed, I think he would have been straight up shit-canned within 2 years and probably would have ended up at a mid-major as a landing spot.

The product was stale and the program was declining. Pitt was a total non-factor in conference play, conference tourneys, or in March. Fan interest was waning. And it wasn't a 2 or 3 year thing... this was a pretty steep 5 year decline.

He had taken Pitt as far as he could. Things were going the wrong direction & he never seemed to be optimistic or welcoming about the move to the ACC. I think he needed a change of scenery.

LolololololololololololololololololololololololOl.

you have to be nearly brain dead to still think it was the right decision to push him out.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

It was exactly what he needed. He had hit the wall at Pitt & the trend was obvious. Had he stayed, I think he would have been straight up shit-canned within 2 years and probably would have ended up at a mid-major as a landing spot.

The product was stale and the program was declining. Pitt was a total non-factor in conference play, conference tourneys, or in March. Fan interest was waning. And it wasn't a 2 or 3 year thing... this was a pretty steep 5 year decline.

He had taken Pitt as far as he could. Things were going the wrong direction & he never seemed to be optimistic or welcoming about the move to the ACC. I think he needed a change of scenery.

He also wanted to stay at Pitt as late as the night before he was pushed out. I contend that if he were given the chance, we would be in a much better position in the college basketball landscape than we are now. That is a certainty.

 

[TD_6082]

LolololololololololololololololololololololololOl.

you have to be nearly brain dead to still think it was the right decision to push him out.

I never said it was the right decision. I thought it was a horrible decision.

However, had he stayed, I think the program would have continued to decline and he would have been straight up fired in the not too distant future.

All that said, I absolutely think it was the best thing for Jamie Dixon. That's obvious. You have to be brain dead to think otherwise.

 

[KennyHeisman8]

I never said it was the right decision. I thought it was a horrible decision.

However, had he stayed, I think the program would have continued to decline and he would have been straight up fired in the not too distant future.

All that said, I absolutely think it was the best thing for Jamie Dixon. That's obvious. You have to be brain dead to think otherwise.

Lol.

 

[HailToPitt725]

It was exactly what he needed. He had hit the wall at Pitt & the trend was obvious. Had he stayed, I think he would have been straight up shit-canned within 2 years and probably would have ended up at a mid-major as a landing spot. And to be totally honest, I think it would probably cratered so badly, that nobody on here would even question the decision to move in another direction.

The product was stale and the program was declining. Pitt was a total non-factor in conference play, conference tourneys, or in March. Fan interest was waning. And it wasn't a 2 or 3 year thing... this was a pretty steep 5 year decline.

He had taken Pitt as far as he could. Things were going the wrong direction & he never seemed to be optimistic or welcoming about the move to the ACC. I think he needed a change of scenery.

I don’t know. On one hand, I definitely agree that things weren’t headed in the right direction. I believe we would’ve been a tournament team in 2017 had he stayed, but there would’ve been a lot of uncertainty after that once Artis, Young, Jones, and Jeter left.

With that being said, he seemed to be ahead of the curve when it came to using the transfer portal to patch the roster. He also would’ve had Cam Johnson and Ryan Luther to build around.

I can’t speculate whether he would’ve improved his recruiting here or changed his offensive approach the way he has at TCU, but I will say that the bottom would’ve never fallen out the way it did under Stallings and Capel simply because there wouldn’t have been as much roster turnover. Just my opinion, though.

 

[TD_6082]

He also wanted to stay at Pitt as late as the night before he was pushed out. I contend that if he were given the chance, we would be in a much better position in the college basketball landscape than we are now. That is a certainty.

Had Jamie stayed, I don't think he would be coaching at Pitt today. I think he would have been fired by now.

Boosters rarely push coaches out that are having success. At some point, we have to come to grips that Jamie is at least partially responsible for a fairly steep decline his last 5 years at Pitt that led to monied boosters meddling in the program.

To be totally honest, In Jamies last 5 years, Pitt was considerably worse as a program than the one he inherited from Howland. That isn't even debatable.

 

[KennyHeisman8]

Had Jamie stayed, I don't think he would be coaching at Pitt today. I think he would have been fired by now.

Boosters rarely push coaches out that are having success. At some point, we have to come to grips that Jamie is at least partially responsible for a fairly steep decline his last 5 years at Pitt that led to monied boosters meddling in the program.

To be totally honest, In Jamies last 5 years, Pitt was considerably worse as a program than the one he inherited from Howland. That isn't even debatable.

Oh my god. It’s because they were a top four seed for years. Unless you are duke you will eventually come down.

The arguments and rationalizations this fanbase makes to slander Dixon are pathetic and absurd.

 

[TD_6082]

I don’t know. On one hand, I definitely agree that things weren’t headed in the right direction. I believe we would’ve been a tournament team in 2017 had he stayed, but there would’ve been a lot of uncertainty after that once Artis, Young, Jones, and Jeter left.

With that being said, he seemed to be ahead of the curve when it came to using the transfer portal to patch the roster. He also would’ve had Cam Johnson and Ryan Luther to build around.

I can’t speculate whether he would’ve improved his recruiting here or changed his offensive approach the way he has at TCU, but I will say that the bottom would’ve never fallen out the way it did under Stallings and Capel simply because there wouldn’t have been as much roster turnover. Just my opinion, though.

I don't think that 2017 team is an NCAA tourney team without a PG. Without Robinson, 2016 wouldn't have been a NCAAT team. Hard to say what Cam & Luther would have done. Cam had a great senior year at UNC, but both of those guys had to deal with injuries that set them back.

I agree that the bottom wouldn't have fell off due to roster turnover. I just think it had become apparent that Jamie wasn't going to win enough to keep his job for very long at Pitt.

 

[KennyHeisman8]

I don't think that 2017 team is an NCAA tourney team without a PG. Without Robinson, 2016 wouldn't have been a NCAAT team. Hard to say what Cam & Luther would have done. Cam had a great senior year at UNC, but both of those guys had to deal with injuries that set them back.

I agree that the bottom wouldn't have fell off due to roster turnover. I just think it had become apparent that Jamie wasn't going to win enough to keep his job for very long at Pitt.

Lol. What a horrific take.

I am over it. I hope they lose forever. People like you deserve it as don’t deserve a good program.

 

[TD_6082]

Oh my god. It’s because they were a top four seed for years. Unless you are duke you will eventually come down.

The arguments and rationalizations this fanbase makes to slander Dixon are pathetic and absurd.

Yes. And when you come down and push out mediocrity for FIVE straight years, the school/boosters usually make a change. That's kind of the way the business works at most places. That isn't unique to Pitt.

 

[KennyHeisman8]

Yes. And when you come down and push out mediocrity for FIVE straight years, the school/boosters usually make a change. That's kind of the way the business works at most places. That isn't unique to Pitt.

So incredibly dumb. Just unbelievable.

I hope you NEVER SEE A WINNING PITT TEAM AGAIN.

 

[TD_6082]

Lol. What a horrific take.

I am over it. I hope they lose forever. People like you deserve it as don’t deserve a good program.

It's call seeing things with some objectivity.

 

[TD_6082]

So incredibly dumb. Just unbelievable.

I hope you NEVER SEE A WINNING PITT TEAM AGAIN.

That isn't very nice.

I wish you and Jamie both success. I hope you see a Jamie Dixon coached team make it past the first weekend in the NCAA tourney very soon. I know you've both been waiting since 2009.

 

[TD_6082]

WHat a clown. Still, six years later, can't admit you were a total idiot.

I didn't want Jamie gone six years ago. How many times do I have to tell you that?

 

[KennyHeisman8]

I didn't want Jamie gone six years ago. How many times do I have to tell you that?

Lol. YOu can't sit there and say"he tanked the program and would have been fired eventually" then say you didn't want him gone.

Stop talking out both sides of your mouth.

 

[TD_6082]

Lol. YOu can't sit there and say"he tanked the program and would have been fired eventually" then say you didn't want him gone.

Stop talking out both sides of your mouth.

I didn't say he "tanked" the program. But there was a significant decline in his last 5 years & the program had regressed from where it was when he took over. Do you agree with that?

Jamie deserves tons of kudos and he did a remarkable job at Pitt for 8 years. I think he exceeded everyone's expectations. However, his last 5 years were something else entirely. His overall conference record was around.500, He went to the tourney 3 out of his last 5 years and had only one tourney victory. His teams did nothing memorable in the conference tourneys either in those last 5 years. The style of play wasn't the most exciting. Interest & attendance had declined...

My point is, that couldn't go on forever. While I don't think it was to the point that Jamie should have been fired or pushed out, things were going to have to improve at some point in the near future in order for him to keep his job. The status quo wasn't going to cut it for very long going forward.
Eventually, Jamie was going to have to produce a season or two where he gave fans some hope that Pitt could compete at a high level in the ACC and get in the big dance with a team that at least felt like it had potential to make a deep run.

So obviously there were 3 directions where things could go... 1) Jamie gets Pitt at a level that closer resembles what they were from 2001-2011. 2) Things stay status quo. 3) The program continues to decline and NCAA births become more rare and early exits are almost guaranteed. Had Jamie stayed at Pitt, I think that he would have fell in either 2 or 3 & it would have cost him his job eventually.

In college basketball, the pendulum can swing fairly fast. I don't think he could have kept things at status quo for very long. I think had he remained coach at Pitt, he probably goes to the NIT in 2017 & misses the post season all together in 2018 at which point they would have just straight up canned him. That's just my opinion. No one can say with any certainty, but its obvious that the trend was not his friend. However, I will agree with you that he should not have been pushed out and deserved the chance to get Pitt closer to what it was in his first 8 years as HC.

Somehow I get the impression that you think Pitt should have just let Jamie plod along forever delivering the results he did his last 5 years and everyone should be content with that because of what Jamie accomplished his first 8 years as HC at Pitt.

 

[Saboteur II]

Getting TCU to the tournament is even more of an accomplishment than at Pitt. They had zero basketball tradition. Pitt at least has the 2 National Championships.

I call bull.
They are sitting smack dab in one the heaviest populated metro areas in the country’s 2nd largest state in a climate conducive to playing sports with mega size schools galore.
They are not in a shrinking metro area where schools close or should merge.
There’s a bunch of reasons the population of Texas continues to grow and other areas don’t.

 

[Jeffburgh]

It was exactly what he needed. He had hit the wall at Pitt & the trend was obvious. Had he stayed, I think he would have been straight up shit-canned within 2 years and probably would have ended up at a mid-major as a landing spot. And to be totally honest, I think it would probably cratered so badly, that nobody on here would even question the decision to move in another direction.

The product was stale and the program was declining. Pitt was a total non-factor in conference play, conference tourneys, or in March. Fan interest was waning. And it wasn't a 2 or 3 year thing... this was a pretty steep 5 year decline.

He had taken Pitt as far as he could. Things were going the wrong direction & he never seemed to be optimistic or welcoming about the move to the ACC. I think he needed a change of scenery.

Right.
Very grateful for what he did, but he lost his drive. Still coached his but off during games, but got stale w his staff and even more so w recruiting.

Hes nothing special now, competent, but not what he was the first third of his career.

 

[HailToPitt725]

I don't think that 2017 team is an NCAA tourney team without a PG. Without Robinson, 2016 wouldn't have been a NCAAT team. Hard to say what Cam & Luther would have done. Cam had a great senior year at UNC, but both of those guys had to deal with injuries that set them back.

I agree that the bottom wouldn't have fell off due to roster turnover. I just think it had become apparent that Jamie wasn't going to win enough to keep his job for very long at Pitt.

That’s fair; Artis definitely had his fair share of struggles attempting to run the point that season.

And, to your point, a separation might have been inevitable. If we continued to perform at the level we had under Dixon his last five years (NIT, NCAAT 1st/2nd round, etc.), the same boosters who interfered in 2016 likely would’ve also interjected themselves down the road. I say this as someone who also wanted us to keep Dixon.

 

[DruidTM]

Name and shame the boosters… I’m serious… and no 6 years later this doesn’t look like a good decision and no PITT never ever would be in the current position or the Stallings position if Dixon had stayed. He needed some good assistants who were strong recruiters. That was without question the biggest problem. Not this vague “ he got stale” crap.

Sometimes people who want to throw around their power because they have money make really bad decisions… this would be one of those times. The entire fiasco that started this didn’t look like it was being handled correctly then and frankly hasn’t looked any better over time….so I’m not buying revisionist history now. And I get the “ oh that’s history “ stuff too… but because it was such a terrible decision ( one I almost couldn’t believe they’d make such a bad mistake with because:see PITT history) it has to be a part of this discussion.

 

[KennyHeisman8]

Name and shame the boosters… I’m serious… and no 6 years later this doesn’t look like a good decision and no PITT never ever would be in the current position or the Stallings position if Dixon had stayed. He needed some good assistants who were strong recruiters. That was without question the biggest problem. Not this vague “ he got stale” crap.

Sometimes people who want to throw around their power because they have money make really bad decisions… this would be one of those times. The entire fiasco that started this didn’t look like it was being handled correctly then and I’m not buying revisionist history now.

Dead on. And if we get back to that level of his last five years maybe the fanbase won’t kick and screen like they did while he was here.

Remember…boosters do listen to the fans.

 

[Duneaux Harm]

Refs had to call a foul on Arizona there, what a bunch of BS.

Bull. He was over and back and flopped. Also how about a foul call on the Matthurn dunk? Perhaps at least one technical on the Lumpkin dunk in the first half where he was on the rim for an hour. Calls are made and calls are missed.

 

[Duneaux Harm]

TCU is getting absolutely hosed.

OMFG. Did you watch the whole game? Two dunks in the first half where TCU hung on the rim for an eternity and no technicals called. Benn Matthurin does a dunk and gets pounded and no call. The inside of the lane was a no foul zone and that pretty much played into TCUs game plan. Please learn something about the game before you come on here and flagellate yourself over your Dixon obsession.

 

[Duneaux Harm]

Should have never got to that point. You call the clear foul e d of regulation and the game is likely over.

Vety few times you can point at refs directly changing the final outcome. This a one of them.

Oh good god. The refs were bad the whole game. But yeah. The last call.

 

[Duneaux Harm]

They were fouled on the final possession of the regular time. He got hosed. Also, they lost cause they couldn’t rebound in the end which is shocking for a Jamie coaches team.

They couldnt rebound? They got legitimately half of their rebounds in the final seven minutes.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

Had Jamie stayed, I don't think he would be coaching at Pitt today. I think he would have been fired by now.

Boosters rarely push coaches out that are having success. At some point, we have to come to grips that Jamie is at least partially responsible for a fairly steep decline his last 5 years at Pitt that led to monied boosters meddling in the program.

To be totally honest, In Jamies last 5 years, Pitt was considerably worse as a program than the one he inherited from Howland. That isn't even debatable.

The idiot boosters you referred to had their panties in a wad because Jamie wasn't catering to them. Jamie was a fair man and he didn't treat one person any differently than he treated another. The big mouth boosters didn't like that, so there was that going against Jamie when he didn't win 25 games in a year. It got to be a personal level thing with them, and they're still around. That's why until they're gone, I don't hold out much hope for us getting or keeping a good coach. I guess it's possible. But if we finally do get a real coach in here, they'll drive him out if he doesn't do their bidding. The same would have happened to Jamie if he had stayed any longer. We have to realize that the big money boosters we have now who have influence are just not real smart.

That's fallacy about the last 5 years under Jamie. I went over this before and I'm not doing it again.

Jamie deserved a chance to get this program on more solid ground and he wasn't given that chance. He would have been successful, I believe, because he would have learned to not listen to certain people and would have gone back to what he knows was the right thing to do, ACC or not. He would have adapted.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

Name and shame the boosters… I’m serious… and no 6 years later this doesn’t look like a good decision and no PITT never ever would be in the current position or the Stallings position if Dixon had stayed. He needed some good assistants who were strong recruiters. That was without question the biggest problem. Not this vague “ he got stale” crap.

Sometimes people who want to throw around their power because they have money make really bad decisions… this would be one of those times. The entire fiasco that started this didn’t look like it was being handled correctly then and frankly hasn’t looked any better over time….so I’m not buying revisionist history now. And I get the “ oh that’s history “ stuff too… but because it was such a terrible decision ( one I almost couldn’t believe they’d make such a bad mistake with because:see PITT history) it has to be a part of this discussion.

He definitely needed better assistants. If he would have told the boosters to take a hike, maybe he could have made some staff changes and gotten those good assistants. I believe he'd still be here if that was done.

I think we know a couple of these idiot boosters by name. One of them has the same name as our illustrious Chancellor but isn't the same person. They f%$ked up big time and we have to watch as Capel tears it down even further next year, if that's possible. I know boosters don't make hiring and firing decisions, but they have influence with their wallets.

 

[Duneaux Harm]

He definitely needed better assistants. If he would have told the boosters to take a hike, maybe he could have made some staff changes and gotten those good assistants. I believe he'd still be here if that was done.

I think we know a couple of these idiot boosters by name. One of them has the same name as our illustrious Chancellor but isn't the same person. They f%$ked up big time and we have to watch as Capel tears it down even further next year, if that's possible. I know boosters don't make hiring and firing decisions, but they have influence with their wallets.

Unfortunately, successful schools usually have heavy booster involvement. That is both for the good and the bad. And in todays NIL they are even more important. In my mind the boosters would not have been listened to at all IF you had an Athletic Director that actually supported Coach Dixon. Barnes did not and that is why Jamie felt he should leave.

And let’s not rewrite history here either for TCU. Jamie was signed, sealed and almost delivered to UCLA but TCU would not budge from the buy out. So he is not exactly a coaching angel but I wish Jamie had stayed longer than Barnes.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Bull. He was over and back and flopped. Also how about a foul call on the Matthurn dunk? Perhaps at least one technical on the Lumpkin dunk in the first half where he was on the rim for an hour. Calls are made and calls are missed.

you’re asking for a hanging on the rim technical? Do you also ask people not to drink alcohol at parties?

 

[Duneaux Harm]

you’re asking for a hanging on the rim technical? Do you also ask people not to drink alcohol at parties?

Give me a break. Lumpkin went above and beyond normal and the refs ate their whistle. So deal with no calls the rest of the game. Don’t whine about a no call at the last second because what else did you expect from the refs. Nobody got hosed. The refs sucked hard against both teams. I just can’t stand when people say LOOOK LOOOK at that last call. Eff You. Go back and look at every call then and balance it out will ya.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

Unfortunately, successful schools usually have heavy booster involvement. That is both for the good and the bad. And in todays NIL they are even more important. In my mind the boosters would not have been listened to at all IF you had an Athletic Director that actually supported Coach Dixon. Barnes did not and that is why Jamie felt he should leave.

And let’s not rewrite history here either for TCU. Jamie was signed, sealed and almost delivered to UCLA but TCU would not budge from the buy out. So he is not exactly a coaching angel but I wish Jamie had stayed longer than Barnes.

I agree that if not for Barnes and regardless of the boosters, Jamie would have stayed. Barnes was the decision-maker, but was heavily influenced by the moron boosters. And Jamie had made the decision the night before he left that he was going to stay at Pitt. But Barnes and his cronies made it clear to Jamie he wasn't wanted here, and the wheels were set in motion quickly. In the end, Jamie is in a much better place for him.

I don't blame Jamie for looking at other opportunities while coaching at X school. I have done the same thing. You get stale in any job after say 4 or 5 years and have to move on. I don't hold that against him.

 

[Duneaux Harm]

By the way, if Arizona doesn’t toughen up a couple of their Euros they will be going home Thursday night. The 6’ 11” Lithuanian played soft last night like Donatas did at the end. I will give Kerr Krissa a pass for his excitement on recovering from that nasty ass ankle injury. Benn, the PAC 12 MVP showed up late and did what he does. That wasn’t a miracle shot. That is a shot he makes in his sleep.

Houston is a better rebounding team than TCU, so the Arizona 7 footers have to strap it on tight if they expect to complete.

UA is fun to watch but they haven’t been bloodied all season and they have to figure out how to receive those blows.

Kudos to Jamie. I am glad UA won because it is fun in town, but had TCU won I at least could have ragged all over the guys at morning coffee today.

 

[PittPharm2002]

So, what has changed with Jamie? Because this TCU team doesn't play the same methodical type of offense we used to play under him. Doesn't seem like it anyway.

Offense has been really good with Dixon for a long time
I mean even most of the pitt years

the mythology of slow and defense just persisted

most of the failures in March were because our defense faltered - particularly defending the 3

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Give me a break. Lumpkin went above and beyond normal and the refs ate their whistle. So deal with no calls the rest of the game. Don’t whine about a no call at the last second because what else did you expect from the refs. Nobody got hosed. The refs sucked hard against both teams. I just can’t stand when people say LOOOK LOOOK at that last call. Eff You. Go back and look at every call then and balance it out will ya.

I personally didn’t complain about any calls. I complained about still switching screens instead of going over them at the end of the game when 2 points wouldn’t have hurt you. Miles trying to see where the screen was gave Zona the wide open 3.

I’m just letting you know that if you’re complaining about non technicals on a dunk in college basketball you’re a loser. That’s not an opinion.

 

[DT_PITT]

I personally didn’t complain about any calls. I complained about still switching screens instead of going over them at the end of the game when 2 points wouldn’t have hurt you. Miles trying to see where the screen was gave Zona the wide open 3.

I’m just letting you know that if you’re complaining about non technicals on a dunk in college basketball you’re a loser. That’s not an opinion.

I think the NCAA should totally get rid of hanging on the rim as a technical.

 

[Duneaux Harm]

I personally didn’t complain about any calls. I complained about still switching screens instead of going over them at the end of the game when 2 points wouldn’t have hurt you. Miles trying to see where the screen was gave Zona the wide open 3.

I’m just letting you know that if you’re complaining about non technicals on a dunk in college basketball you’re a loser. That’s not an opinion.

Then I am a loser I guess. Glad that your insight has helped me with my day. I certainly have known that everything you have said has been 100% accurate and represents nothing but truth and purity. I will now reevaluate my wonderful retirement life and see why this grand accomplishment was managed with me being such a loser. I guess God takes care of us simple losers. Again, have a good day whatever you may be doing.

 

[KennyHeisman8]

I think the NCAA should totally get rid of hanging on the rim as a technical.

100% agree unless the guy does literal pull ups.