OT: Where Does Ben Rank?...
- Thread starter TheWerewolfFromTwilight
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I'd probably put Ben in the top 10, but Greene, Blount, Ham, Lambert -- they are considered among the very few best all time at their position. He's not with that group.
Joe Greene is #1 and then there’s everyone else. When he arrived in ‘70, this franchise was a dumpster fire.
That being said, Ben is in the top 3-4. Personally, I’d have him at 2. Longevity, 3 Super Bowls, playing most important position, etc.
Terry Bradshaw is wayyyy up there too.
I’ll go: 1. Joe Greene
2. Ben
3. Terry Bradshaw
and 4-5 could come from Stautner, Lambert, Franco, Blount, Troy, Deebo, and AB.
That being said, Ben is in the top 3-4. Personally, I’d have him at 2. Longevity, 3 Super Bowls, playing most important position, etc.
Terry Bradshaw is wayyyy up there too.
I’ll go: 1. Joe Greene
2. Ben
3. Terry Bradshaw
and 4-5 could come from Stautner, Lambert, Franco, Blount, Troy, Deebo, and AB.
I'll be curious to see if Harrison makes the Hall. He really only had about five or six high-quality seasons, despite hanging around the league for about 16 years. I don't think he'll get in, which probably leaves him off a lot of all-time great lists when it comes to this franchise.
I think AB will get in, but I have no idea if he'll choose to go in as a Steeler.
Harrison will definitely get into HoF. Won’t be first ballot. Will probably take a few tries. He will get in for sure though. Leader (along with Potsie) of a defense that went to 3 Super Bowls in 6 seasons.
Potsie and Aaron Smith won’t get in but both SHOULD get in.
Stillers won a Super Bowl by overcoming a pathetic
choke job performance by their QB1
9-21, 123 YDS, 2 INT.
They probably should have lost to the cards too- If not for James Harrison or an improbable catch by Holmes.
For the last decade, Ben has been a loser on the field. Not winning anything with one of the most talented rosters.
Stillers would have been better off trading ben, brown and bell 5-6 years ago. I thought it was obvious that all 3 were losers back then.
No offense but your delusional.
Ben had the best game of his career (and it still stands as his best game) in Denver in AFCC two weeks prior to XL in Detroit. Did he play his best game? Of course not. Brady has had a bad Super Bowl too.
As for XLIII, he was the reason we won the game (along with Debo’s incredible return). Fitzpatrick TD put us down. Ben starts off 1st and 20 after the hold and we have about 2:00 left. He makes a typical Ben escape play and manages to make it 2nd and manageable. He then works the team down the field (along with Santonio who vowed “to be great” in that spot).
Anyone who thinks like this clown is a troll. Ben is a top 3 Steeler. Again, I’d put him at 2…..behind Joe Greene.
QB Cliff Stoudt
RB LeGarrett Blount
RB Tim Worley
WR Limas Sweed
WR Troy Edwards
TE Matt Spaeth
T Mike Adams
T Jamain Stephens
G Rhino Rienstra
G Tom Ricketts
C JC Hassenpfeffer
DE Aaron Jones / Darryl Simms
DE Ziggy Hood
DT Jeremy Staat
DT Gabe Rivera
LB Huey Richardson
LB Zo Jackson
LB Jarvis Jones
CB Artie Burns
CB Ricardo Colclough
S Anthony Smith
S Scott Frost
K Josh Scobee
P Daniel Sepulveda
KR Chris Rainey
PR Dri Archer
RB LeGarrett Blount
RB Tim Worley
WR Limas Sweed
WR Troy Edwards
TE Matt Spaeth
T Mike Adams
T Jamain Stephens
G Rhino Rienstra
G Tom Ricketts
C JC Hassenpfeffer
DE Aaron Jones / Darryl Simms
DE Ziggy Hood
DT Jeremy Staat
DT Gabe Rivera
LB Huey Richardson
LB Zo Jackson
LB Jarvis Jones
CB Artie Burns
CB Ricardo Colclough
S Anthony Smith
S Scott Frost
K Josh Scobee
P Daniel Sepulveda
KR Chris Rainey
PR Dri Archer
You're letting your homerism shine through if you're saying Aaron Smith should get into the Hall of Fame, lol. I honestly don't think Harrison is a guarantee. The peak of his game was just very short-lived, not unlike Tikki Barber, who I don't believe has even been a semi-finalist in his ten years of eligibility despite having gaudy numbers for like six or seven years.
I do think the championships, especially that interception return, will help his cause. But I'm not prepared to call it a slam dunk.
That catch by Holmes was a 9 out of 10. But the throw was a 20 out of 10. If you're suggesting Holmes bailed Ben out in some way, you're just grasping at straws.
You should yell Ben that. He has said that he thought he missed him on that throw.
Personally, I thought it was a risky throw to make on 1st or 2nd down (I forget which, but it was one of those two). But he still put it in a place where only his receiver could get it. It was a hell of a pass and a hell of a drive that Ben led. They had an early holding call that set them back, but they still marched like 90 yards with the Super Bowl on the line. That's big time.
In his first Super Bowl, Ben undoubtedly had a bad game. He also slang the ball all over the place to beat the 1, 2, and 3 seeds in the AFC to get there. I'm not judging him too harshly for the Seattle performance, which they still won by double digits, after that.
My recollection is that he essentially grew up homeless. Lived in cars and on friends' couches and stuff. Didn't have the academic profile for a D1 school and probably also didn't have a parent or any adult figure advocating for him.
I'm not sure that he was a knucklehead that early in life or it came later. It sadly seemed to accelerate after that Burfict headshot in the playoff game.
Ben was lights out in that entire playoff run though. 47 for 71 (66%), 680 yards, 7 TDs:1 INT, 1 rushing TD. Don't forget the game saving tackle on the Colts fumble recovery from Bettis. Those were all on the road against the 1, 2, and 3 seeds in the AFC.
We probably don't win any of those games with anyone else except Peyton Manning.
I'm not disputing the games before but to credit him in that Super Bowl is funny. They needed to overcome his choke job.
The guy hates Roethlisberger with the intensity of a thousand suns. His wife must scream Ben's name during sex.
I don’t care for him either. But to crap on his on field career is silly. Our old friend Delpanther hated him so bad that he continually said Ben isn’t a hall of famer. Which is more than silly. It’s outright stupid.
Ben was also what, 22 in that Super Bowl, his 2nd year. And as you said, the 3 playoff games up to that he was outstanding.
The game winning drive against the Cards was every bit as good, no, it was better than any Montana, Brady, Elway had to win the Super Bowl. For that, he should have more kudos, but for whatever reason he doesn't.
But I don't think Ben is top 3.
My list:
1) Greene
2) Blount
3) Franco (yep, meatball himself)
4) Webster
5) Ham
6) Woodson
7) Ben
8) Bradshaw
9) Troy
10) Stallworth (though I was partial to Swann)
No doubt he is a hall-of-famer. That said, I can't say he is a top 10 Steeler. We have so many good players that some of you are not old enough to remember their dominance. Green, Bradshaw, Lambert, Blount, Ham, Polamalu, Harris, Webster, and possibly a few others would all be ranked better Steelers in my opinion. He fits somewhere right around #10 for me. Perhaps if he would have had a stronger finish to his career I would have him higher.
Those who were not alive for the 70's don't realize how dominant those teams were. I could make a case that the top 10 Steelers all hail from that Era.
Additionally, guys like AB do not rate all that high for me. He was a great talent but never won anything here. Give me Swann and Stallworth all day. These were two big game players, who were at their very best on the biggest stage. They had so many highlight reel catches in the playoffs and super bowl. I don't care that Swann's career wasn't all that long. You play to win the big game, and these guys were superb when it counted.
Those who were not alive for the 70's don't realize how dominant those teams were. I could make a case that the top 10 Steelers all hail from that Era.
Additionally, guys like AB do not rate all that high for me. He was a great talent but never won anything here. Give me Swann and Stallworth all day. These were two big game players, who were at their very best on the biggest stage. They had so many highlight reel catches in the playoffs and super bowl. I don't care that Swann's career wasn't all that long. You play to win the big game, and these guys were superb when it counted.
FWIW, there were seven Steelers on the 100th anniversary all time NFL team (not counting guys who played a year or two in Pittsburgh):
Mike Webster
Joe Greene
Jack Ham
Jack Lambert
Mel Blount
Rod Woodson
Chuck Noll
There were nine Steelers who were finalists but who did not make the final team (again, excluding guys who only played a year or two in Pittsburgh):
Terry Bradshaw
Jerome Bettis
Franco Harris
John Stallworth (but not Lynn Swann)
Dermontti Dawson
Ernie Stautner
Kevin Greene
Troy Polamalu
Donnie Shell
Mike Webster
Joe Greene
Jack Ham
Jack Lambert
Mel Blount
Rod Woodson
Chuck Noll
There were nine Steelers who were finalists but who did not make the final team (again, excluding guys who only played a year or two in Pittsburgh):
Terry Bradshaw
Jerome Bettis
Franco Harris
John Stallworth (but not Lynn Swann)
Dermontti Dawson
Ernie Stautner
Kevin Greene
Troy Polamalu
Donnie Shell
On the other hand if he hadn't destroyed the competition in 3 road playoff games against the AFC's 1,2 and 3 seeds, including making a game saving tackle, they aren't in the game to even give him a chance to have that bad game and raise "one for the thumb" 26 years later.
You don't take into account IMPACT on the franchise, if they draft an OT or DB that year instead of Ben, they're still selling "One for the Thumb" T Shirts at the team store, Cowher could never win the big one, because he never had a QB UNTIL BEN.
Yeah, good point. But Tikki Barber hasn't ever gotten very far in the process. I guess the two Super Bowls were the difference.
He was the best / most dynamic skill player the organization had after Ben. Crazy production, heart of a lion and left DCs shoveling tums into their mouths like jelly beans.
Remember when Ben got carried by his defense and running game when he threw for under 100 yards to win his first Super Bowl.
Remember when he got carried through the playoffs to win his 2nd Super Bowl by throwing only 1 TD against 5 ints in 2 playoff games.
Remember his 3 turnovers in his 3rd Super Bowl.
Remember his 3 interceptions in his 4th Super Bowl.
Remember when he got carried through the playoffs to win his 2nd Super Bowl by throwing only 1 TD against 5 ints in 2 playoff games.
Remember his 3 turnovers in his 3rd Super Bowl.
Remember his 3 interceptions in his 4th Super Bowl.
There are certain ex Steelers who arguably rank top 10 all time at their position. Greene, Ham, Lambert, Blount, Woodson, Webster, Dermontti Dawson, Troy P. Ben is not that although I would have to put Bradshaw in that group solely on being one of a handful with 4 rings at the position. So I guess you could slot Ben in at around 10th or so.
There are likely some of our posters that may be too young to remember the Steelers of the 70's. It's understandable therefore that they tend to favor/appreciate the contributions of the most current Steeler greats.
Being one of the elder posters on this site, I have had the opportunity/pleasure to enjoy and appreciate most of these great players. Hell, I even remember greats like Ernie Stauntner, Buddy Dial and John Henry Johnson.
I guess that's why I favor Bradshaw over Ben. Bradshaw is in the HOF, and Ben will surely be there in the future. Bradshaw won four rings and Ben currently has two. Who knows, he may add another? Time will tell.
Ben may buy a nex wax ring for his commode, but I don't think #7 is going to come under his command.
People have quickly forgotten how good Rod Woodson was. He may have been the best Steeler ever and was absolutely dominant until blowing out his knee.
I think Ben has been great over time, it is hard to argue that. But, the Steelers have had a lot of straight up legends. Guys who were the best or transcendent at their position. Roethlisberger played/plays in a golden age of QBs, but was never quite that even at his most dominant.
Joe Greene, Dermonti Dawson, Mel Blount, Rod Woodson, Troy Polamalu, Mike Webster ... all guys that may have been the best ever at what they did on their best day/season.
Steelers fans may hate AB, but he had the most dominant run a receiver has maybe ever had in his last 4-5 years as a Steeler. Huge talent that also was a better player than Ben relative to his competition though they needed each other.
Then, you have guys like Ham, Lambert, Harrison, Harris, Bettis, Bradshaw, Stallworth, Swann, Lloyd, Greene (people forget that when he played for the Steelers, Lloyd was better than him), etc ... players that were absolute monsters, HoF in reality and/or level at their best. I think Ben falls a little more in with this crew relative to the competition.
The guy has been a stud, but the Steelers have had a lot of studs. The position means a ton more than anything else, but player vs player at respective position they have had probably 10+ guys that were more All-Time than Ben (who has had a marvelous career and will be in the HoF).
I think Ben has been great over time, it is hard to argue that. But, the Steelers have had a lot of straight up legends. Guys who were the best or transcendent at their position. Roethlisberger played/plays in a golden age of QBs, but was never quite that even at his most dominant.
Joe Greene, Dermonti Dawson, Mel Blount, Rod Woodson, Troy Polamalu, Mike Webster ... all guys that may have been the best ever at what they did on their best day/season.
Steelers fans may hate AB, but he had the most dominant run a receiver has maybe ever had in his last 4-5 years as a Steeler. Huge talent that also was a better player than Ben relative to his competition though they needed each other.
Then, you have guys like Ham, Lambert, Harrison, Harris, Bettis, Bradshaw, Stallworth, Swann, Lloyd, Greene (people forget that when he played for the Steelers, Lloyd was better than him), etc ... players that were absolute monsters, HoF in reality and/or level at their best. I think Ben falls a little more in with this crew relative to the competition.
The guy has been a stud, but the Steelers have had a lot of studs. The position means a ton more than anything else, but player vs player at respective position they have had probably 10+ guys that were more All-Time than Ben (who has had a marvelous career and will be in the HoF).
Bottom 3 in that top ten if he makes that. And those putting him in front of Bradshaw is laughable. Super Bowl wins - Terry. Super Bowl MVPs - Terry. League MVP - Terry. To quote a famous coach...”We don’t walk past passing titles...we walk past Lombardi’s.
Nah, most who have meet the dude shares a similar opinion of him. I have heard much worse from others. It's not like I said, I'm looking forward to his CTE to take him out like many others have.
Depends on your criteria.
If it’s a player who is directly responsible for the most wins in team history, it’s not particularly close. He is #1.
It’s the better part of two decades of contending football. Ben has played in maybe 2 games that didn’t have “playoff implications”
Let that sink in a moment before talking Super Bowls.
The 70s teams had the best collection of talent ever. But there wasn’t one player as responsible, and it was basically an 8 year stretch and it was over. Players like TB were actually somewhat poor at times in the first few years.
Time will eventually provide perspective on this. It really isn’t close
If it’s a player who is directly responsible for the most wins in team history, it’s not particularly close. He is #1.
It’s the better part of two decades of contending football. Ben has played in maybe 2 games that didn’t have “playoff implications”
Let that sink in a moment before talking Super Bowls.
The 70s teams had the best collection of talent ever. But there wasn’t one player as responsible, and it was basically an 8 year stretch and it was over. Players like TB were actually somewhat poor at times in the first few years.
Time will eventually provide perspective on this. It really isn’t close
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