OT: Youth ref/ump shortage

[Sean Miller Fan]

We've had to play a few games this season with parents doing the game because no refs and umps can be found. Is it any wonder when parents act like this?

Sports World Furious Over Viral Little League Video

A video of a Little League baseball game is going viral this weekend. The video shows an umpire threatening a group of parents who won't stop complaining

thespun.com

I cant believe people want to do this for $20-$30 per game.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Parents suck these days.

 

[Ski11585]

Parents suck these days.

Parents have always sucked.

 

[pitt213]

I was asked to be an ump as a teenager and I said hell no specifically because of the awful parents that I saw firsthand as a player.

 

[bayardstreet]

Very big commitment to be a WPIAL football referee. Time investment plus lousy pay and you get yelled at and threatened by parents and fans.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I was asked to be an ump as a teenager and I said hell no specifically because of the awful parents that I saw firsthand as a player.

I actually would kind of like to do it because I would love to kick parents and coaches out all the time. I would get enjoyment out of kicking out human scum. I would be like how a ref handled a parent this past season. Stopped the game and said "this is your warning, you dont want the embarrassment kicked out of a youth game do you?" Parents says one more thing: C-ya.

 

[pittdan77]

Zero tolerance is the way to go. Leagues need to come down hard on parents involved in this nonsense.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

Zero tolerance is the way to go. Leagues need to come down hard on parents involved in this nonsense.

Sometimes the people running these youth leagues are many of the very same people that are the type A bungholes during the games, though. That’s when it’s particularly touchy.

 

[pittdan77]

Sometimes the people running these youth leagues are many of the very same people that are the type A bungholes during the games, though. That’s when it’s particularly touchy.

Yup. Definitely a problem. I worked baseball for a few years and the leagues were well run and supported its umps. It's like everything else, there isn't a shortage of people willing to work games if they're treated properly. That includes pay and support in these situations. Just seems these leagues want it both ways.

 

[PittPharm2002]

Parents have always sucked.

Factual

 

[lilspainishflea]

We keep making life harder and harder for people who work underpaid jobs (often manual labor!) or volunteer positions and then we ask ourselves why we have such a hard time finding qualified and motivated people to fill those positions.

Not only does the league need to step in and stop this stuff but so do the other parents in the crowd. Their kids are all at risk of having the game cancelled, too. These bullies need to be told to shut up/not to ruin it for everyone by 10+ people, they'll stop when they figure out they're alone.

 

[PittPharm2002]

We keep making life harder and harder for people who work underpaid jobs (often manual labor!) or volunteer positions and then we ask ourselves why we have such a hard time finding qualified and motivated people to fill those positions.

Not only does the league need to step in and stop this stuff but so do the other parents in the crowd. Their kids are all at risk of having the game cancelled, too. These bullies need to be told to shut up/not to ruin it for everyone by 10+ people, they'll stop when they figure out they're alone.

This guy gets it

 

[pittdan77]

We keep making life harder and harder for people who work underpaid jobs (often manual labor!) or volunteer positions and then we ask ourselves why we have such a hard time finding qualified and motivated people to fill those positions.

Not only does the league need to step in and stop this stuff but so do the other parents in the crowd. Their kids are all at risk of having the game cancelled, too. These bullies need to be told to shut up/not to ruin it for everyone by 10+ people, they'll stop when they figure out they're alone.

Yeah, only thing I'd add to this is that the only time an official deserves this sort of criticism is if the play is getting dangerous because they aren't calling the game properly or keeping it under control. But in that case, the coach can take some action to protect players.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

Yup. Definitely a problem. I worked baseball for a few years and the leagues were well run and supported its umps. It's like everything else, there isn't a shortage of people willing to work games if they're treated properly. That includes pay and support in these situations. Just seems these leagues want it both ways.

The little league baseball that I participated in as a kid (circa 10 years old, 1977) was in an era not nearly as bad as today for bunghole parents. But we lived in a small town without tons of sponsors, and there was one family that was the main facilitator and organizer and brought in many resources for our motley league; there was little doubt the league could have been conducted without the effort they put forth. And that was appreciated. But it was mainly done so they could showcase the kids of this family. The dad/coach of the team was a maniac. He screamed at his players (and the players of the other teams). His son was always the pitcher, and his dad/coach screamed constantly at him to knock down the batters who “crowded the plate”. I got hit several times by the kid (luckily never in the head). We had a girl on our team (the first in our town to ever play; she was pretty brave for 1977) and this guy ordered the pitcher (again, aloud from the bench) to bean her as well. “luckily” he was pretty wild and “only” got her in the small of her back, when she twisted away.

Since the family was so instrumental to the league, plus e we were a fairly gritty WPA mill town, nothing was ever done to challenge this guy. Our sole ump was some sort of relative of this guy and never said a word. One time a coach of an opposing team (not my team that day) did yell something back, and this guy strode across the field, directly over the mound, while play was going on, toward the opposing manager screaming and daring him to “make something of it”. They had to be separated by the freaking kids and some other parents! What a nightmare he was (and his wife nearly as bad, also screaming from the stands). Still frosts me to this day.

 

[redbyrds]

It always has been only those who truly love the game moresonthan the money due to parents,grandparents, coaches,...

Now the cancel culture we live in today has taken it to a new level with school board and baseball associations. Train has left the station and for the love of the game not enough. For most it was never about the money per se, but today you have to over pay for people to put up with the bullshit.

 

[upj87]

We've had to play a few games this season with parents doing the game because no refs and umps can be found. Is it any wonder when parents act like this?

Sports World Furious Over Viral Little League Video

A video of a Little League baseball game is going viral this weekend. The video shows an umpire threatening a group of parents who won't stop complaining

thespun.com

I cant believe people want to do this for $20-$30 per game.

I'll reserve judgement until I see the call....

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

just pay kids to do it. The kids that do the soccer games and baseball games for my kids are teenagers. parents here dont give them a hard time. Admittedly, the teenage umps/refs kind of suck because they are too young but the coaches help them out when needed..

the annoying wife telling everyone that her husband is a volunteer fire fighter lol. who cares?

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Agree it's usually the parents not comprehending the lack of significance of these games in the grand scheme of things and trying to live vicariously through their kids. But some of these umpires are also complete buffoons. I remember a few back in the day who would come to our dugout before the game and say they were going to call anything remotely close to the plate a strike, which led to balls that would require a telephone pole to make contact with being "in the strike zone". I get that the strike zone can't be a shoe box at that age, but they'd act like they were some beacons of nobility for calling kids out on pitches that were above their eyes.

With some of the travel involved in these sports, no one wants to have an umpire who makes up his own rules.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

Agree it's usually the parents not comprehending the lack of significance of these games in the grand scheme of things. But some of these umpires are also complete buffoons. I remember a few back in the day who would come to our dugout before the game and say they were going to call anything remotely close to the plate a strike, which led to balls that would require a telephone pole to make contact with being "in the strike zone". I get that the strike zone can't be a shoe box at that age, but they'd act like they were some beacons of nobility for calling kids out on pitches that were above their eyes.

With some of the travel involved in these sports, no one wants to have an umpire who makes up his own rules.

So Greg Maddox pitched in your league then? 😄

 

[HailtoPitt]

From my experience as a kid, youth sports could either be a cesspool of horrible coaches and parents, or a great learning experience to help with maturing in life. It all depended on the team/situation. I recall having a baseball coach, in the first grade who was the biggest D-head ever. He was also a parent. I caught a line drive in practice that he hit (should coaches even be hitting line drives to 1st graders?) and he told me it was a "lucky catch". I still remember the exact moment very well because it's when I realized that there was definitely something wrong with him. His son became a bully and now his life is in shambles. Shame.

So I ended up playing football as a kid and the coaches were tough but good teachers. Learned how to work hard and get results.

So... mixed bag and you really need to pay attention to who is coaching your kids.

 

[thebadby2]

We keep making life harder and harder for people who work underpaid jobs (often manual labor!) or volunteer positions and then we ask ourselves why we have such a hard time finding qualified and motivated people to fill those positions.

Not only does the league need to step in and stop this stuff but so do the other parents in the crowd. Their kids are all at risk of having the game cancelled, too. These bullies need to be told to shut up/not to ruin it for everyone by 10+ people, they'll stop when they figure out they're alone.

Agree with you and after spending this past weekend at my 11 year old daughter’s soccer tournament I’ll add a couple of observations. First, some of the coaches of these teams are 10 times worse than any of the parents in terms of the way they abuse the refs. Second, every one of these travel leagues and tournaments purport to have a “zero tolerance” policy for treatment of the refs, and for jagoff parents. Never seen it enforced despite some really over the line behavior. And let’s face it, these leagues can’t even get enough refs on the field, how are they going to police this stuff? Third, when parents step in to try to calm things down it often escalates the problem. I Personally witnessed a near brawl involving a bunch of parents and a coach in one of my kid’s games due to this, after the coach went ballistic on the 19’year old ref. The whole thing was ugly as hell. And that’s 11 year old girl’s soccer for F’s sake.

 

[PeetWeet2]

just pay kids to do it. The kids that do the soccer games and baseball games for my kids are teenagers. parents here dont give them a hard time. Admittedly, the teenage umps/refs kind of suck because they are too young but the coaches help them out when needed..

the annoying wife telling everyone that her husband is a volunteer fire fighter lol. who cares?

Put me in the umps/ refs are the bigger problem camp. Way too many have ears that are too big and skin that is too thin. And, Elmore often than not they are the ONLY ones getting paid.

I am amazed at the 5th/ 6th grade bball refs. Small, packed gyms. Loud order siblings. Loud coaches. Way too many violations being committed. Let them play and prison ball will erupt. Call all fouls and games will take 4 hours. No matter what, people will have legit complaints and there just is no good way for the to right, or even consistent.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

just pay kids to do it. The kids that do the soccer games and baseball games for my kids are teenagers. parents here dont give them a hard time. Admittedly, the teenage umps/refs kind of suck because they are too young but the coaches help them out when needed..

the annoying wife telling everyone that her husband is a volunteer fire fighter lol. who cares?

I kind of disagree. Soccer officiating is probably the worst because they cant get adults to do it. How bout just pay them like $100/game. Same for baseball. For some reason, basketball has no problems getting refs. Never understood that one. You can pay those guys $15 and they'll show up.

I think a lot of this has to do with low wages. I am all for paying qualified refs/umps a premium amount. Pay them $100/game and advertise it. These parents are already spending 10s of thousands on youth sports, they won't even notice the extra charge.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

From my experience as a kid, youth sports could either be a cesspool of horrible coaches and parents, or a great learning experience to help with maturing in life. It all depended on the team/situation. I recall having a baseball coach, in the first grade who was the biggest D-head ever. He was also a parent. I caught a line drive in practice that he hit (should coaches even be hitting line drives to 1st graders?) and he told me it was a "lucky catch". I still remember the exact moment very well because it's when I realized that there was definitely something wrong with him. His son became a bully and now his life is in shambles. Shame.

So I ended up playing football as a kid and the coaches were tough but good teachers. Learned how to work hard and get results.

So... mixed bag and you really need to pay attention to who is coaching your kids.

Agreed. The anecdote I shared above needs a couple nuances. First, my own team’s coach that year was tremendous, he worked with the team, patiently taught the fundamentals, and most importantly praised every kid, not merely blowing smoke but he identified the one or two thing each kid did well and pointed it out (and with me that was a challenge!). He knew that direct confrontation with the ahole coach I mentioned would only disintegrate into the fiasco that i recounted above.

I remain friends with his son to this day and I praise his dad (who has since passed away) to him all the time. This friend once told me that his dad tried his damnedest behind the scenes to reign in that other guy, get him sanctioned or removed in some way, but as I mentioned he was a big cheese in the local company that bankrolled much of our league, so there was only so much possible.

Plus as mentioned we were a small mill town and a sizable segment (including my dad) thought that kind of hard-ass treatment was fine. To an extent I don’t even disagree; it def taught some tough life lessons to be sure…but to me it should have been hard for any adult even in that era to rationalize a grown man in early 40s ordering a 9 year old girl to be beaned.

Another reason it was tolerated was, sad to say the ahole guy’s team was the most successful. For one since he was de facto commissioner, he had packed his team with the best neighborhood players (not a shock that I wasn’t among them). And his scorched earth tactics intimidated all the other teams. Most of their opponents struck out a lot, because the kids were petrified and waved ineffectually at the pitch almost more in self defense (I fell into that most of the time, though I was proud when I actually somehow got a hit off the guy). That coach reigned supreme for a couple years until his kids outgrew the league, and big surprise, he no longer had the time.

Kind of brings things full circle with the Rangers and Penguins this past week, and the NIL madness. A lot of the so-called lessons in sportsmanship and integrity that athletics are supposed to embody end up greatly bastardized…they teach lessons all right, but none of them good.

 

[OH Pete]

The little league baseball that I participated in as a kid (circa 10 years old, 1977) was in an era not nearly as bad as today for bunghole parents. But we lived in a small town without tons of sponsors, and there was one family that was the main facilitator and organizer and brought in many resources for our motley league; there was little doubt the league could have been conducted without the effort they put forth. And that was appreciated. But it was mainly done so they could showcase the kids of this family. The dad/coach of the team was a maniac. He screamed at his players (and the players of the other teams). His son was always the pitcher, and his dad/coach screamed constantly at him to knock down the batters who “crowded the plate”. I got hit several times by the kid (luckily never in the head). We had a girl on our team (the first in our town to ever play; she was pretty brave for 1977) and this guy ordered the pitcher (again, aloud from the bench) to bean her as well. “luckily” he was pretty wild and “only” got her in the small of her back, when she twisted away.

Since the family was so instrumental to the league, plus e we were a fairly gritty WPA mill town, nothing was ever done to challenge this guy. Our sole ump was some sort of relative of this guy and never said a word. One time a coach of an opposing team (not my team that day) did yell something back, and this guy strode across the field, directly over the mound, while play was going on, toward the opposing manager screaming and daring him to “make something of it”. They had to be separated by the freaking kids and some other parents! What a nightmare he was (and his wife nearly as bad, also screaming from the stands). Still frosts me to this day.

When I played, the league recruited an alcoholic pool cleaner and former minor-league baseball pitcher, to coach. We were a youth baseball league expansion team of misfit players formed as a settlement to a lawsuit brought against the league for excluding such players from other teams. Shunned by the more competitive teams (and competitive parents and coaches), we were the outsiders, and the least talented team in the league. Out coach had to forfeit the opening game after we allowed 26 runs without recording an out.

With our entire team wanting to quit due to the humiliation of our first loss, our coach recruited two unlikely prospects: a sharp-tongued girl named Amanda, a skilled pitcher (trained by our coach when she was younger) and the 11-year-old daughter of one of our coach's ex-girlfriends; and a local cigarette-smoking, loan-sharking, Harley-Davidson-riding troublemaker named Kelly, who also happened to be the best athlete in the area, but had been excluded from playing in the past by league officials. With those two on board, the team started gaining more confidence, and we started winning games.

Eventually, we made it to the championship game opposite the top-notch Yankees, who were coached by an aggressive, competitive jerk. As the game progressed, tensions rose between the teams and the coaches, as the coaches engaged in ruthless behavior toward each other and the players in order to win the game. When the opposing coach hit his own son, the pitcher, for ignoring orders by intentionally throwing at another child's head, our coach realized that he, too, had placed too much emphasis on winning, and put in his benchwarmers to allow everyone to play. Despite our coach's move, our team nearly won the game. Our coach then gave us beer which we then sprayed on each other with a field celebration as if we had won.

The following year, our coach decided to leave so they hired Kelly's father to coach the team. Amanda moved to England to live with her aunt and become an equestrian. We recruited a new pitcher that tried to imitate all the best MLB pitchers but eventually found his own style. We won the championship and got a chance to play the best team in Japan in the Houston Astrodome. I'll never forget that. We were playing between games of an Astro's doubleheader and our game was running long. The Astros tried to stop our game so that they could play theirs but our coach led the crowd in a chant of "let them play". Even the Astro players were chanting. Finally they let us play and we won!! The next year we went to Japan, but I'll spare you the details on that.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

I kind of disagree. Soccer officiating is probably the worst because they cant get adults to do it. How bout just pay them like $100/game. Same for baseball. For some reason, basketball has no problems getting refs. Never understood that one. You can pay those guys $15 and they'll show up.

I think a lot of this has to do with low wages. I am all for paying qualified refs/umps a premium amount. Pay them $100/game and advertise it. These parents are already spending 10s of thousands on youth sports, they won't even notice the extra charge.

is it that big of a deal? So a soccer official is a teenage kid and they miss an off sides call. That's not the end of the world. kids dont care, once the game is over they are over it and completely could care less while the lunatic parents are the only ones that even care.

My little man plays baseball, some umps who are 15 year olds have a subjective strike zone. again, not the end of the world if a ball is called a strike that is a bit low or high.. Again, all of this is stemming from parents who take this all way too serious.. That's where and why this all starts..

 

[OH Pete]

Agree it's usually the parents not comprehending the lack of significance of these games in the grand scheme of things and trying to live vicariously through their kids.

I don't know about that werewolf. I'm pretty certain that the lack of a pass interference call on one of my son's passes in 4th grade CYO football prevented him from getting a D1 scholarship offer.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

is it that big of a deal? So a soccer official is a teenage kid and they miss an off sides call. That's not the end of the world. kids dont care, once the game is over they are over it and completely could care less while the lunatic parents are the only ones that even care.

My little man plays baseball, some umps who are 15 year olds have a subjective strike zone. again, not the end of the world if a ball is called a strike that is a bit low or high.. Again, all of this is stemming from parents who take this all way too serious.. That's where and why this all starts..

Its not a big deal but US Soccer is so flush with money, there is no reason that 14 year olds has to be be reffing a 12 year old's game. Pay the adults.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

Its not a big deal but US Soccer is so flush with money, there is no reason that 14 year olds has to be be reffing a 12 year old's game. Pay the adults.

adults dont want to do it, hence the reason we have a shortage. you pay them more then parents know this and will be even tougher. if i was one of these parents who took it too serious, and i knew the adult official was getting 100/bucks a game, and he makes one subjective call i dont like, im giving him hell. (Again, im the parent that sits far away from everyone cause i hate parents but you get my point).

paying adults more would just increase videos like this..

 

[OH Pete]

I kind of disagree. Soccer officiating is probably the worst because they cant get adults to do it. How bout just pay them like $100/game. Same for baseball. For some reason, basketball has no problems getting refs. Never understood that one. You can pay those guys $15 and they'll show up.

I think a lot of this has to do with low wages. I am all for paying qualified refs/umps a premium amount. Pay them $100/game and advertise it. These parents are already spending 10s of thousands on youth sports, they won't even notice the extra charge.

SMF, the wages aren't that low. I think that travel ball umps make between $50 and $100 per game depending on the age group. Those games generally have 2 hour time limits and often they get paid in cash and for a weekend tournament, they can umpire as many as 4, sometimes 5 games per day. So $25 to $50 per hour isn't that bad for what hopefully is someone's side hustle or fun money job. As I edge closer to my kids no longer playing travel baseball (3 more seasons for my youngest), I think about getting certified to be an umpire and doing it as a hobby.

 

[CJsE]

Umpired in my teens and summer early college during the late 90s/early 2000s, I can ensure you that parents were horrible then as well. Had to throw out a number of parents over the years, including one time that we had to call for an escort because the fathers were waiting in the parking lot at the end of the pathway for us after the game.

 

[CJsE]

Put me in the umps/ refs are the bigger problem camp. Way too many have ears that are too big and skin that is too thin. And, Elmore often than not they are the ONLY ones getting paid.

I am amazed at the 5th/ 6th grade bball refs. Small, packed gyms. Loud order siblings. Loud coaches. Way too many violations being committed. Let them play and prison ball will erupt. Call all fouls and games will take 4 hours. No matter what, people will have legit complaints and there just is no good way for the to right, or even consistent.

Here's a crazy idea, parents could act like adults and sit down, shut up, and watch their kid play. The game isn't about them and the refs aren't getting paid nearly enough to put up with their shit.

 

[pittdan77]

Here's a crazy idea, parents could act like adults and sit down, shut up, and watch their kid play. The game isn't about them and the refs aren't getting paid nearly enough to put up with their shit.

What a cool idea, right?

 

[pittdan77]

Put me in the umps/ refs are the bigger problem camp. Way too many have ears that are too big and skin that is too thin. And, Elmore often than not they are the ONLY ones getting paid.

I would understand that complaint for a HS official who is crying around over the normal chatter. The rec league stuff and kids sports really don't matter enough to put up with more than some grumbling.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

adults dont want to do it, hence the reason we have a shortage. you pay them more then parents know this and will be even tougher. if i was one of these parents who took it too serious, and i knew the adult official was getting 100/bucks a game, and he makes one subjective call i dont like, im giving him hell. (Again, im the parent that sits far away from everyone cause i hate parents but you get my point).

paying adults more would just increase videos like this..

I don't care if he's making $1000/game. If a ref makes a terrible call that costs your team the championship (and the stakes are NEVER nearly that high), what good does it do to yell at him? He made a mistake. And your kid is watching you look like an ass.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

New officials have to invest money and time into equipment, attending meetings, and then paying dues to their local chapter and state. You have to also factor in gas, turnpike tolls, and travel time to the game if it’s far away. You have to increase the pay if you want to attract new officials and keep the good ones you have. There also needs to be a policy in place for coaches or fans that cross the line and make verbal threats.

 

[USN_Panther]

All umps/refs will miss calls. Like pitchers walk batters and shortstops make errors. How they are dealt with is the essence of sport.
Provided the officials know the rules and are not favoring a certain team, it happens.
I remember a youth baseball game years ago that my son was playing in. The teenager umping the bases blew a call at first base badly. He knew it, everyone did. So what, right?
The coach of the team on the wrong end of this started calling league officials. Several innings later, the league president shows up at the field and shouts out from the field that 3 runs were being removed from the team's score due to the bad call.
The play at first would have been out number 2, with runners still on second and third. How he came up with the runs to be removed must have required calculus. Base runners act differently with two vs one out, etc. And how would one know the batters who wouldn't have batted after hypothetical out three wouldn't have scored runs the next inning.
The league president was an elected judge and was up for reelection. I recall thinking of how sad our justice system is when a judge can't run 8-10 year old baseball. He needed to simply tell that coach to accept it and move on. If they were to undo the call, they needed to rewind the game back to that point and replay it. But the whole thing was so over the top ridiculous it was comical. We were all joking that there must have been mafia involved in some way.

 

[pittdan77]

All umps/refs will miss calls. Like pitchers walk batters and shortstops make errors. How they are dealt with is the essence of sport.
Provided the officials know the rules and are not favoring a certain team, it happens.
I remember a youth baseball game years ago that my son was playing in. The teenager umping the bases blew a call at first base badly. He knew it, everyone did. So what, right?
The coach of the team on the wrong end of this started calling league officials. Several innings later, the league president shows up at the field and shouts out from the field that 3 runs were being removed from the team's score due to the bad call.
The play at first would have been out number 2, with runners still on second and third. How he came up with the runs to be removed must have required calculus. Base runners act differently with two vs one out, etc. And how would one know the batters who wouldn't have batted after hypothetical out three wouldn't have scored runs the next inning.
The league president was an elected judge and was up for reelection. I recall thinking of how sad our justice system is when a judge can't run 8-10 year old baseball. He needed to simply tell that coach to accept it and move on. If they were to undo the call, they needed to rewind the game back to that point and replay it. But the whole thing was so over the top ridiculous it was comical. We were all joking that there must have been mafia involved in some way.

That's sad for any baseball league, regardless. The umpire association I belonged to would have quit the next day.

 

[PeetWeet2]

Here's a crazy idea, parents could act like adults and sit down, shut up, and watch their kid play. The game isn't about them and the refs aren't getting paid nearly enough to put up with their shit.

Yes, this too.

 

[PeetWeet2]

I don't care if he's making $1000/game. If a ref makes a terrible call that costs your team the championship (and the stakes are NEVER nearly that high), what good does it do to yell at him? He made a mistake. And your kid is watching you look like an ass.

Well, working refs does help a team win. This is true even at the highest levels of sport.

Is it worth being an ass? No.

Is it part of a coach’s job? Unfortunately.

Does it help a team when parents do it? Unfortunately.

The solution is to have a warning/ penalty system in place that gets enforced. Techs in bball, awarding walks/ outs in baseball. Playing a man down in lower levels of soccer. Bench penalties in hockey, etc.