Our "deep ball" CB play & why- Perspective

[JoeScaz]

Everyone knows that in Narduzzi's system, CBs are put on an island, and the front-seven play with reckless intensity.

Every week there are countless threads about Maddox & Pitts and their deficiencies, and "how we need to severely upgrade the CB" position.

While an infusion of DB talent is coming... it should be told that.. this scheme of defense is like a continual "beating the blitz" scenario.. leaving an undersized (but talented and aggressive) corner in Avante running downfield with a 6'3 receiver, and if he doesn't win it 100% of the time.... being message board fodder, for folks who really just don't get it it-- unless you are Bama, you CAN'T have both.

You take the bitter with the sweet. Negative rushing yards. Check. Crazy aggressive upfront and seven sacks. Check. Many plays BEHIND the line of scrimmage. Check. You also will get beat over the top 2-3 times a game when you play this way.

This team has put up great defensive "impact numbers"... and that is the Duzz style, period. We probably have 3x as many defensive splash plays this year. INTs.. TDs off of them...

Last year, we got beat BOTH ways.. by being super vanilla. So fuss about our smaller guys getting beat down the field 2-3 times a game all you want-- but you are being extremely short-sighted... pardon the pun.

We could be 5-6 right now with 7 guys in the secondary, playing it conservatively.

 

[ChazzMo]

agree -

 

[OriginalEther]

And we were told that big plays will be given up in this system, especially early on.

There can be smarter applications of it. I know the words prevent defense make most fans break out in hives, but if there was a time to back off the high risk-high reward approach, it was at the end of the first half.

 

[Parkview57]

The style of defense is not going to change. PN is going to stop the run first by having alot of players "in the box" or near the line of scrimmage, and live with big plays from time to time. It is not a random thing but a well planned ideology, which makes it uncomfortable for the Qb's and RB's all day. It becomes more and more difficult as the game goes on to know you are going to have to deal with the physical punishment all day. This includes sacks and TFLs, as well as hurries and throw-a -ways, along with a drop or two and some overthrows which all in all presents the offense has with a fairly bad day. North Carolina and Notre Dame had few drops or poor passes which I attribute to the skill level of the unit.

The corners must be mentally tough and confident, to the point of cockiness. It is not like some featherweight bout that you are gonna get hit but not hurt , it is a heavy weight bout out there and you are going to go down when the opponent lands a punch, it may be in the first round or third but you gotta get up and continue the fight with the same intensity you had before you went down.

This is where I disagree with all the bad mouthing of the CB play on this board. It is 2015, the passing game in high schools are well developed let alone at the DI level. The offense has all the advantages, knowing where they are going, not backpedaling and on and on. I feel Maddox has played well and Pitts has improved quite a bit in the last several weeks. I believe they are being coached to be confident and mentally tough, not worrying about critics and big plays because if they blink the whole defense blinks.

All that being said I believe they should have backed off a bit up 42-17 and made Jackson beat them with precision passing, but Narduzzi is apparently the type of guy who put his boot down on your neck when he gets the chance,
which makes me glad he is on our side!

 

[MajorMajors]

I agree with the comments in this thread - making this an excellent thread...

Go Pitt.

 

[thebadby2]

Everyone knows that in Narduzzi's system, CBs are put on an island, and the front-seven play with reckless intensity.

Every week there are countless threads about Maddox & Pitts and their deficiencies, and "how we need to severely upgrade the CB" position.

While an infusion of DB talent is coming... it should be told that.. this scheme of defense is like a continual "beating the blitz" scenario.. leaving an undersized (but talented and aggressive) corner in Avante running downfield with a 6'3 receiver, and if he doesn't win it 100% of the time.... being message board fodder, for folks who really just don't get it it-- unless you are Bama, you CAN'T have both.

You take the bitter with the sweet. Negative rushing yards. Check. Crazy aggressive upfront and seven sacks. Check. Many plays BEHIND the line of scrimmage. Check. You also will get beat over the top 2-3 times a game when you play this way.

This team has put up great defensive "impact numbers"... and that is the Duzz style, period. We probably have 3x as many defensive splash plays this year. INTs.. TDs off of them...

Last year, we got beat BOTH ways.. by being super vanilla. So fuss about our smaller guys getting beat down the field 2-3 times a game all you want-- but you are being extremely short-sighted... pardon the pun.

We could be 5-5 right now with 7 guys in the secondary, playing it conservatively.

Both Pitts and Maddox, as well as our free safeties, Webb/Amara/Mitchell, have struggled with technique in addition to their physical limitations. If you sat down and watched DB game film with Narduzzi I promise you he's not sitting there slapping them on the back and praising them for doing a great job. They have not been strong jamming the receivers at the LOS and they give up leverage on those deep routes. They are losing the battles at the LOS and in the routes themselves. Webb is playing flat footed and doesn't seem to have a good grasp of where he's supposed to go in 2 deep coverage. There's more going there on than a lack of height.

The style of D we play does unquestionably leave us more vulnerable over the top, but better come and safety play would cut down on many of those long downfield plays we've been burned on.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Webb is playing flat footed and doesn't seem to have a good grasp of where he's supposed to go in 2 deep coverage.

He also takes some awful angles when he is trying to run down a guy who has the ball or get over to help cover a receiver to whom the ball is being thrown.

 

[Shortman011]

Duzz defense is the old Bliztburg D. At 8-3 you can't ask for anything more. Pitt AD needs to renegoitate "The Man's Contract" by adding 5 more years and a heafty upgrade in pay. Duzz will put us in better bowls and put more people in the seats. More people in the seats means prices can be increased. He recruits not only good football players and makes them perform on the field but it looks like he teaches them to be great citizens of the U of Pitt. H2P.

 

[bschulter]

Everyone knows that in Narduzzi's system, CBs are put on an island, and the front-seven play with reckless intensity.

Every week there are countless threads about Maddox & Pitts and their deficiencies, and "how we need to severely upgrade the CB" position.

While an infusion of DB talent is coming... it should be told that.. this scheme of defense is like a continual "beating the blitz" scenario.. leaving an undersized (but talented and aggressive) corner in Avante running downfield with a 6'3 receiver, and if he doesn't win it 100% of the time.... being message board fodder, for folks who really just don't get it it-- unless you are Bama, you CAN'T have both.

You take the bitter with the sweet. Negative rushing yards. Check. Crazy aggressive upfront and seven sacks. Check. Many plays BEHIND the line of scrimmage. Check. You also will get beat over the top 2-3 times a game when you play this way.

This team has put up great defensive "impact numbers"... and that is the Duzz style, period. We probably have 3x as many defensive splash plays this year. INTs.. TDs off of them...

Last year, we got beat BOTH ways.. by being super vanilla. So fuss about our smaller guys getting beat down the field 2-3 times a game all you want-- but you are being extremely short-sighted... pardon the pun.

We could be 5-5 right now with 7 guys in the secondary, playing it conservatively.

sure glad to see that you posted this, this is the narduzzi's defense. The corners on an island with 9 defenders attacking the ball. Most times it works, few times it don't. Like the %'s

 

[ricflair4LIFE]

Everyone knows that in Narduzzi's system, CBs are put on an island, and the front-seven play with reckless intensity.

Every week there are countless threads about Maddox & Pitts and their deficiencies, and "how we need to severely upgrade the CB" position.

While an infusion of DB talent is coming... it should be told that.. this scheme of defense is like a continual "beating the blitz" scenario.. leaving an undersized (but talented and aggressive) corner in Avante running downfield with a 6'3 receiver, and if he doesn't win it 100% of the time.... being message board fodder, for folks who really just don't get it it-- unless you are Bama, you CAN'T have both.

You take the bitter with the sweet. Negative rushing yards. Check. Crazy aggressive upfront and seven sacks. Check. Many plays BEHIND the line of scrimmage. Check. You also will get beat over the top 2-3 times a game when you play this way.

This team has put up great defensive "impact numbers"... and that is the Duzz style, period. We probably have 3x as many defensive splash plays this year. INTs.. TDs off of them...

Last year, we got beat BOTH ways.. by being super vanilla. So fuss about our smaller guys getting beat down the field 2-3 times a game all you want-- but you are being extremely short-sighted... pardon the pun.

We could be 5-5 right now with 7 guys in the secondary, playing it conservatively.

Well said. Our corners could do 100 things well and if they make one mistake. That is what the fans remember. If a kids going to play cb on this team. He better have thick skin.

 

[bwh05]

Hey, sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you. For years people bitched about the corners playing too soft on the outside under Wanny and Rhodes. Well now you got the philosophy you were asking for. The problem is now when you get hit with a play it tends to be a big play. Maddox and Pitts have a hard job to do every week.

I don't mind the aggressive calls on defense but being in press man at the end of the half is really stupid. We did the same thing vs UVA on the 4th and 30 they converted at the end of the game. We got away with it, but it's not something we should try again IMO.

 

[thebadby2]

Hey, sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you. For years people bitched about the corners playing too soft on the outside under Wanny and Rhodes. Well now you got the philosophy you were asking for. The problem is now when you get hit with a play it tends to be a big play. Maddox and Pitts have a hard job to do every week.

I don't mind the aggressive calls on defense but being in press man at the end of the half is really stupid. We did the same thing vs UVA on the 4th and 30 they converted at the end of the game. We got away with it, but it's not something we should try again IMO.

I took another look at that play. We were in a nickel D with Amara and Mitchell as the 2 deep safeties and Briggs as the nickel man in the box underneath with the LBs. Jordan Whitehead was not on the field. Maddox and Amara were on the boundary side of the field. Pitts was pressed up with his guy on the opposite side with Mitchell behind him. Correctly anticipating the deep sideline route and knowing he had a safety over the top, Maddox peeled back a few steps before the snap of the ball to give himself a better chance at staying with his man deep. Amara bit on the slot receiver's intermediate post route allowing Maddox's man to run deep one on one. By the time Amara realized he screwed up it was over. At that point all it took was a good throw which UL's good looking freshman QB delivered. So the short of it is that one really wasn't on Maddox so much. And it's OK, even better to be in press coverage underneath in the nickel as long as you have the safeties in 2 deep halves over the top, which we did. Honestly after seeing the play again and in hindsight we should have had Briggs pressed up against the slot receiver to take that route away, he in the box was with nobody to cover on his side and the slot man on the boundary side had a free run to the post at the safeties. We shouldn't have been worried about getting burned by a catch in the middle of the field front of the safeties, that kind of completion wouldn't have hurt us. So our nickel man was of zero help on that play.

I'm sure Amara heard all about it on the sideline after that play. He has not looked good all year. I don't think he or Webb are understanding what they are being taught as far as Narduzzi's two deep zone coverage principles, the splits, switches, etc. He totally blew that one, Maddox was supposed to have help and had none.

 

[Panther Parrothead]

I took another look at that play. We were in a nickel D with Amara and Mitchell as the 2 deep safeties and Briggs as the nickel man in the box underneath with the LBs. Jordan Whitehead was not on the field. Maddox and Amara were on the boundary side of the field. Pitts was pressed up with his guy on the opposite side with Mitchell behind him. Correctly anticipating the deep sideline route and knowing he had a safety over the top, Maddox peeled back a few steps before the snap of the ball to give himself a better chance at staying with his man deep. Amara bit on the slot receiver's intermediate post route allowing Maddox's man to run deep one on one. By the time Amara realized he screwed up it was over. At that point all it took was a good throw which UL's good looking freshman QB delivered. So the short of it is that one really wasn't on Maddox so much. And it's OK, even better to be in press coverage underneath in the nickel as long as you have the safeties in 2 deep halves over the top, which we did. Honestly after seeing the play again and in hindsight we should have had Briggs pressed up against the slot receiver to take that route away, he in the box was with nobody to cover on his side and the slot man on the boundary side had a free run to the post at the safeties. We shouldn't have been worried about getting burned by a catch in the middle of the field front of the safeties, that kind of completion wouldn't have hurt us. So our nickel man was of zero help on that play.

I'm sure Amara heard all about it on the sideline after that play. He has not looked good all year. I don't think he or Webb are understanding what they are being taught as far as Narduzzi's two deep zone coverage principles, the splits, switches, etc. He totally blew that one, Maddox was supposed to have help and had none.

You described it well. We like the press defense; it's a breath of fresh air when compared to what we saw with the former staff.

But having said that, they still have to play smart, situational defense. When there was very little time remaining on the clock, and the opponent has a lot of yards to go, the only thing that we should be concerned about is the deep pass. At that point, the mantra should be, "keep everything in front of you, no one gets behind you".

I posted this in as other thread, but in that situation, I'd be playing Mr. Whitehead in deep center field with the sole assignment of covering anything thrown deep. If they can beat our best D-back when he's playing deep safety, then they deserve a touchdown.

 

[Jeffburgh]

Everyone knows that in Narduzzi's system, CBs are put on an island, and the front-seven play with reckless intensity.

Every week there are countless threads about Maddox & Pitts and their deficiencies, and "how we need to severely upgrade the CB" position.

While an infusion of DB talent is coming... it should be told that.. this scheme of defense is like a continual "beating the blitz" scenario.. leaving an undersized (but talented and aggressive) corner in Avante running downfield with a 6'3 receiver, and if he doesn't win it 100% of the time.... being message board fodder, for folks who really just don't get it it-- unless you are Bama, you CAN'T have both.

You take the bitter with the sweet. Negative rushing yards. Check. Crazy aggressive upfront and seven sacks. Check. Many plays BEHIND the line of scrimmage. Check. You also will get beat over the top 2-3 times a game when you play this way.

This team has put up great defensive "impact numbers"... and that is the Duzz style, period. We probably have 3x as many defensive splash plays this year. INTs.. TDs off of them...

Last year, we got beat BOTH ways.. by being super vanilla. So fuss about our smaller guys getting beat down the field 2-3 times a game all you want-- but you are being extremely short-sighted... pardon the pun.

We could be 5-5 right now with 7 guys in the secondary, playing it conservatively.

Agreed, great post.

I would add to it, though.

I think there is a learning curve, too. I posted this a couple of times already, but the DBs almost need to be beaten to learn how to NOT be beaten.

Its like repairing an engine. You can read the instructions, but you have to get your fingers pinched a few times to learn how to do it without getting your fingers pinched.

They are going to give up plays,but as they get beaten they will learn how to avoid being beaten a little more.

 

[thebadby2]

You described it well. We like the press defense; it's a breath of fresh air when compared to what we saw with the former staff.

But having said that, they still have to play smart, situational defense. When there was very little time remaining on the clock, and the opponent has a lot of yards to go, the only thing that we should be concerned about is the deep pass. At that point, the mantra should be, "keep everything in front of you, no one gets behind you".

I posted this in as other thread, but in that situation, I'd be playing Mr. Whitehead in deep center field with the sole assignment of covering anything thrown deep. If they can beat our best D-back when he's playing deep safety, then they deserve a touchdown.

At that point, the mantra should be, "keep everything in front of you, no one gets behind you"

That's exactly what the intention was, but Amara froze on the post route and blew his assignment, which on that play was to be the deep help on the outside route. All it takes is a split second hesitation or wrong first step by the safety.

 

[bwh05]

If we were playing quarters, which is our base Amara did what he's supposed to do which is carry #2 if he releases vertical. He isn't responsible for giving Maddox post help and that's why Petrino called that route combination. The other thing is, the whole play was weird looking from the start because half of the guys didn't move at the snap so we were probably a little messed up from the beginning

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

If we were playing quarters, which is our base Amara did what he's supposed to do which is carry #2 if he releases vertical. He isn't responsible for giving Maddox post help and that's why Petrino called that route combination. The other thing is, the whole play was weird looking from the start because half of the guys didn't move at the snap so we were probably a little messed up from the beginning

I think it's pretty clear that the center snapped the ball before he was supposed to. The receivers, who are looking for the ball more than the snap count, started moving immediately. Most of the offensive linemen didn't move for a count after the snap. Most of our defenders seemed to get caught up looking at what the linemen were doing (or weren't doing) and they paused for a count as well. I also haven't watched a replay of it (other than what they showed on the scoreboard at the stadium where you couldn't tell) but damn, it did not seem like all the Louisville players were set for a full second when the ball did get snapped. And not only that but it looked like there was a Louisville receiver who was moving forward at the snap as well.

If they were going to allow Canadian rules on that play they could have at least given us the rouge for Blewitt kicking the ball through the uprights on one of his kickoffs.

 

[thebadby2]

If we were playing quarters, which is our base Amara did what he's supposed to do which is carry #2 if he releases vertical. He isn't responsible for giving Maddox post help and that's why Petrino called that route combination. The other thing is, the whole play was weird looking from the start because half of the guys didn't move at the snap so we were probably a little messed up from the beginning

We weren't in base quarters, we were in nickel with press man under and 2 deep zone over. The route that beat us was the sideline fly route, Amara was locked on the short post the slot receiver ran in the middle of the field. Amara bit forward and toward the middle while Maddox chased his man right past Amara's outside half. Not sure why on that play our nickel man (Briggs) was in the box right next to Caprara.

No matter what, Maddox was supposed to have safety help over the top, there's no question about that. You're right, the play was off from the snap-our front 4 weren't even in their stances at he snap, and we had the LBs and Briggs all bunched up and way too tight to the LOS. I'd have to think someone was supposed to be on the slot receiver at the LOS-either Briggs or Amara, but he had a free release.

 

[ZekeGadsonFan]

This has already been stated by many already, but allow me to glob on here. Good post OP. The reality is that the CBs have played well this year. The fact that Maddox got torched some by Fuller, a stud, future NFL receiver, who will have burned much better players than Maddox ever will be by the time he is through, or that a few other times our corners inevitably got beat out on an island in M2M doesn't change that reality.

In fact, given the lack of talent and depth at CB, and the pressure that's put on this group with the defense we play, Id say they've outright been a pleasant surprise this year.

Sadly, some have the mentality that unless the players or coaches are perfect and or everything works perfect, they suck. Its worse with the coaches, but the players fall victim of this silly narrow minded point of view as well.

 

[mdpitt]

Everyone knows that in Narduzzi's system, CBs are put on an island, and the front-seven play with reckless intensity.

Every week there are countless threads about Maddox & Pitts and their deficiencies, and "how we need to severely upgrade the CB" position.

While an infusion of DB talent is coming... it should be told that.. this scheme of defense is like a continual "beating the blitz" scenario.. leaving an undersized (but talented and aggressive) corner in Avante running downfield with a 6'3 receiver, and if he doesn't win it 100% of the time.... being message board fodder, for folks who really just don't get it it-- unless you are Bama, you CAN'T have both.

You take the bitter with the sweet. Negative rushing yards. Check. Crazy aggressive upfront and seven sacks. Check. Many plays BEHIND the line of scrimmage. Check. You also will get beat over the top 2-3 times a game when you play this way.

This team has put up great defensive "impact numbers"... and that is the Duzz style, period. We probably have 3x as many defensive splash plays this year. INTs.. TDs off of them...

Last year, we got beat BOTH ways.. by being super vanilla. So fuss about our smaller guys getting beat down the field 2-3 times a game all you want-- but you are being extremely short-sighted... pardon the pun.

We could be 5-5 right now with 7 guys in the secondary, playing it conservatively.

I remember about 3 years ago when I first started to follow Narduzzi is when in a post-game interview that ( even with elite cbs) that you have to live with giving up some long opportun

Everyone knows that in Narduzzi's system, CBs are put on an island, and the front-seven play with reckless intensity.

Every week there are countless threads about Maddox & Pitts and their deficiencies, and "how we need to severely upgrade the CB" position.

While an infusion of DB talent is coming... it should be told that.. this scheme of defense is like a continual "beating the blitz" scenario.. leaving an undersized (but talented and aggressive) corner in Avante running downfield with a 6'3 receiver, and if he doesn't win it 100% of the time.... being message board fodder, for folks who really just don't get it it-- unless you are Bama, you CAN'T have both.

You take the bitter with the sweet. Negative rushing yards. Check. Crazy aggressive upfront and seven sacks. Check. Many plays BEHIND the line of scrimmage. Check. You also will get beat over the top 2-3 times a game when you play this way.

This team has put up great defensive "impact numbers"... and that is the Duzz style, period. We probably have 3x as many defensive splash plays this year. INTs.. TDs off of them...

Last year, we got beat BOTH ways.. by being super vanilla. So fuss about our smaller guys getting beat down the field 2-3 times a game all you want-- but you are being extremely short-sighted... pardon the pun.

We could be 5-5 right now with 7 guys in the secondary, playing it conservatively.

We got at least 3 sacks on Loisville attempting to "take the bait" of the deep ball. The system is what it is and help should arrive soon.