Pat Forde weighs in on the Stallings hire, and it's not good

[Fredact]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/the-mo...etball-coaching-carousel-220610588-ncaab.html

Some key comments:

"At TCU, they hit an alma-mater home run with the hiring of Jamie Dixon away from Pittsburgh. This is instant credibility for a program that had very little."

"And then there is the temporary insanity that seems to have gripped the Atlantic Coast Conference – specifically Georgia Tech and Pittsburgh. The hires there... boggle the mind."

"Scott Barnes at Pitt replaced Dixon and his 11 NCAA tourney bids in 13 seasons with Kevin Stallings, to the giddy disbelief of many Vanderbilt backers who were hoping to get rid of a guy who made the Big Dance seven times in 17 years and was a widely perceived underachiever over the last four seasons."

"What do the Pitt and Georgia Tech situations have in common, beyond spit-take hires? Search firms."

"It remains to be seen whether Pitt or Georgia Tech will be better for their new hires. But from surface level, there is nothing to get excited about."

​

 

[Den of Hacks]

I honestly don't know what's worse: the shoe companies choosing your coach or the search firms choosing your coach?

We can only hope it's "temporary insanity" and not long-term insanity.

 

[MajorMajors]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/the-mo...etball-coaching-carousel-220610588-ncaab.html

Some key comments:

"At TCU, they hit an alma-mater home run with the hiring of Jamie Dixon away from Pittsburgh. This is instant credibility for a program that had very little."

"And then there is the temporary insanity that seems to have gripped the Atlantic Coast Conference – specifically Georgia Tech and Pittsburgh. The hires there... boggle the mind."

"Scott Barnes at Pitt replaced Dixon and his 11 NCAA tourney bids in 13 seasons with Kevin Stallings, to the giddy disbelief of many Vanderbilt backers who were hoping to get rid of a guy who made the Big Dance seven times in 17 years and was a widely perceived underachiever over the last four seasons."

"What do the Pitt and Georgia Tech situations have in common, beyond spit-take hires? Search firms."

"It remains to be seen whether Pitt or Georgia Tech will be better for their new hires. But from surface level, there is nothing to get excited about."

​

I'm not being a smarty, and I don't know a thing about Pat Forde, but should I care what he thinks about Pitt's hire? Is he like some kind of noted guru on coaching hires?

I notice that he states that the hiring of Stallings "boggles the mind" and then says "It remains to be seen whether Pitt will be better..."

Such keen insights.

Go Pitt.

 

[mvk112]

I believe pretty much every national college hoops writer, and a few of the Nashville ones, all have had similar reactions.

 

[Fredact]

I'm not being a smarty, and I don't know a thing about Pat Forde, but should I care what he thinks about Pitt's hire? Is he like some kind of noted guru on coaching hires?

I notice that he states that the hiring of Stallings "boggles the mind" and then says "It remains to be seen whether Pitt will be better..."

Such keen insights.

Go Pitt.

Those that follow college hoops know Pat Forde. He's very very well known, and very knowledgeable.

 

[TD_istheman]

I'm not being a smarty, and I don't know a thing about Pat Forde, but should I care what he thinks about Pitt's hire? Is he like some kind of noted guru on coaching hires?

I notice that he states that the hiring of Stallings "boggles the mind" and then says "It remains to be seen whether Pitt will be better..."

Such keen insights.

Go Pitt.

Forde is more of an idiot than Smize

 

[Fredact]

Forde is more of an idiot than Smize

Yeah, live in your little yinzer world, comparing a local hack to a national writer. SMH There are people outside of Pittsburgh, that know an awful lot more about basketball than you can possibly understand.

 

[steel_curtain]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/the-mo...etball-coaching-carousel-220610588-ncaab.html

Some key comments:

"At TCU, they hit an alma-mater home run with the hiring of Jamie Dixon away from Pittsburgh. This is instant credibility for a program that had very little."

"And then there is the temporary insanity that seems to have gripped the Atlantic Coast Conference – specifically Georgia Tech and Pittsburgh. The hires there... boggle the mind."

"Scott Barnes at Pitt replaced Dixon and his 11 NCAA tourney bids in 13 seasons with Kevin Stallings, to the giddy disbelief of many Vanderbilt backers who were hoping to get rid of a guy who made the Big Dance seven times in 17 years and was a widely perceived underachiever over the last four seasons."

"What do the Pitt and Georgia Tech situations have in common, beyond spit-take hires? Search firms."

"It remains to be seen whether Pitt or Georgia Tech will be better for their new hires. But from surface level, there is nothing to get excited about."

​

-Im enjoying this 10 fold because something is going to give this year. Either Stallings loses and the lion boosters and fanbase is going to rip into Barnes and come after him hard for the hire. Or Stallings wins and Dixon and Knight look like underachieving losers. One way or the other someone is going to win, someone is going to lose. Someone is going to get praised, someone is going to get scorned. Someone is going to look smart, someone is going to look like a complete dumb ass. Someone is going to win, someone is going to have egg all over their face. I enjoy these articles coming out and hope they come out hourly instead of daily, because the more gas that is thrown into the fire, the stakes are clearly getting raised on what is going to happen.

 

[playtowin1]

Everyone on this board will have a much better perspective on Kevin Stallins this time next year. I know this. Most Pitt fans will give him a genuine opportunity to prove himself. I am not quite sure that a sports writers opinion actually matters at this point, other than fodder to back another person's opinion. I always look at opinions as the same thing as that thing we sit on, everybody has one.

 

[Zaratoughda]

Stallings better win BIG this year (like an NCAA 4 seed) or he will be in big trouble... with Young, Artis, Jeter and Jones all graduating.

Stallings only went to the NCAA 7 times in 17 years at Vandy.... but Dixon only went to the NCAA 3 of the last five seasons and won only 1 game... while Stallings won 5 games in the 7 times he went to the NCAA.. including 2 sweet sixteens..

My guess is Stallings will do about the same as Dixon... low seed in the NCAA and not get past the first weekend.

And then fall off a cliff the season after that. Yeah, THAT is why Dixon left.... so he can let Stallings fall off that cliff instead of falling off it himself.

In any case... all this and all that... Dixon leaves and Stallings gets hired and... NO CHANGE from the less than previous program performance compared to where we were before the move to the ACC was announced.

And the person we can 'thank' for this is none other than 'beam me up' Scotty Barnes... who hired the first experienced coach he could find and did not do an exhaustive search to come up with the best match (e.g. Kevin Keatts).

 

[TreesHero]

The article is a shallow analysis with only a couple points covered on this board weeks ago. I recommend reading a Paul Zeise column in order to purge this from your brain.

 

[rockypanther]

-Im enjoying this 10 fold because something is going to give this year. Either Stallings loses and the lion boosters and fanbase is going to rip into Barnes and come after him hard for the hire. Or Stallings wins and Dixon and Knight look like underachieving losers. One way or the other someone is going to win, someone is going to lose. Someone is going to get praised, someone is going to get scorned. Someone is going to look smart, someone is going to look like a complete dumb ass. Someone is going to win, someone is going to have egg all over their face. I enjoy these articles coming out and hope they come out hourly instead of daily, because the more gas that is thrown into the fire, the stakes are clearly getting raised on what is going to happen.

More than likely it will be a 20-12 kind of year and maybe a tourney. Some will claim it was a good start to the era and some will say this was a letdown hire. But I don't think anyone will be giddy and I don't think anyone will be jumping off a bridge. It was a meh hire and we will probably get meh results as proclaimed by many outside experts.

 

[GoPittO6]

I honestly don't know what's worse: the shoe companies choosing your coach or the search firms choosing your coach?

We can only hope it's "temporary insanity" and not long-term insanity.

At least with the shoe companies you can expect a leg up in recruiting certain AAU programs. What extras does a search firm bring to the deal??

If the task of picking a coach is going to be outsourced to anybody, it should be given to the long-time, big $ boosters. At least they have a real stake in the school's athletic success.

Why the hell should a search firm care about how the hire does after they make their quick buck?

 

[GoPittO6]

And then fall off a cliff the season after that. Yeah, THAT is why Dixon left.... so he can let Stallings fall off that cliff instead of falling off it himself.

That's it right there. Dixon knew things were deteriorating here and he knew he wasn't the guy to fix it.

You can view it as Dixon running away from his problems, or you can view it as Dixon doing the honorable thing and stepping aside.

Either way... the next hire was crucial and deserved a better effort and process.

I'll "give Stallings a chance".... whatever that means... because I have no choice. I have to hope he can find a way to take Pitt back to the level we now know is possible for the program.

But if he doesn't, I won't be upset with him... because I really don't think he should have been here in the first place. It's Barnes I'll be angry with.

What I'm realy hoping is that Pitt fans don't allow the narrative to shift away from Barnes' blunder over the next few years. I'm not saying we need 10 posts a day on it, but maybe a few reminders now and then about how this all played out. I know how a lot of posters like to adopt the "____-is-God" mentality when it comes to Pitt coaches and administrators.

 

[bobfree]

I think the initial reaction covered this.

But people forget a couple important facts:

1. Jamie Dixon left on his own. We didn't force him we didn't push him. So if the replacement on paper doesn't look as good as Dixon, so what? We didn't have a choice in the matter. He was the 7th highest paid coach in the NCAA we couldn't justify paying him any more than he was. **edited for dt**

2. There are legit road blocks at Vanderbilt. It's funny the same people that incessantly excused Dixon because of Pitts lack of tradition and recruiting road blocks won't acknowledge the challenges stallings had.

3. Finally who was hired that was better?

Pastner? Piskiell? Drew? Underwood? Think an argument is there that not one of those guys is a better hire than stallings

 

[9nationalchampionships]

I do agree with his comments regarding search firms. We should have been well equipped to find a BB coach. You then use the search firm to vet the candidate.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Those that follow college hoops know Pat Forde. He's very very well known, and very knowledgeable.

Huh? Its the exact opposite. He covers college football, not college basketball. Lets wait to hear what Kirk Herbstreit, Ivan Maisel, and The Dude of WV have to say as their opinions are of equal value to Forde's.

 

[Jeffburgh]

I suppose it will continue to be hashed over.

1) As Bob noted, Jamie Dixon left on his own. He was not fired. Maybe there were some discussions between him and Barnes, but frankly, given the performance of the program, there should have been discussions. But, again, he left for more money and a new start at his alma mater. And, as others have noted, given his pay at the time/his performance the last five years, paying him more to stay was not an option.

2) The major backlash when news of Stallings was the pick, as someone else noted, was in good part based on what Forde noted with Stalling's NCAA record, which overall is worse than JDs, and that was the primary issue JD had lost support within the fan base.

3) IMO, I think Barnes saw that the program did not need an overhaul, wanted a really veteran coach. He saw in Stallings someone who would not let the program slip any further than where it was over the last five years, but could possibly be better at Pitt than he was at Vandy overall.

4) This either will be the case or it won't. We will see.

5) The one thing I do know is that Richardson/Ballard > than Knight/Smoke, and pretty clearly, and it is going to be hard for the third chair to not be better than Barton, and in fact good chance it might be a LOT better.

6) It is what it is. We can be miserable and have that thing where we sort of are rooting for Stallings to fail to justify our initial reaction. OR, we give him a shot and hope for the best.

 

[pittguy81]

Boy, the people "willing to give Stallings a chance" sure seem to act like they're doing him a favor as they sit with their hand on guillotine blade's release handle.

Jamie isn't coming back and Pat Forde is an empty headed guy who writes puff pieces

 

[Thee Jackie Treehorn]

I always look at opinions as the same thing as that thing we sit on, everybody has one.

Everybody has one and they all STINK!

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I think the initial reaction covered this.

But people forget a couple important facts:

1. Jamie Dixon left on his own. We didn't force him we didn't push him. So if the replacement on paper doesn't look as good as Dixon, so what? We didn't have a choice in the matter. He was the 7th highest paid coach in the NCAA we couldn't justify paying him anymore.

2. There are legit road blocks at Vanderbilt. It's funny the same people that incessantly excused Dixon because of Pitts lack of tradition and recruiting road blocks won't acknowledge the challenges stallings had.

3. Finally who was hired that was better?

Pastner? Piskiell? Drew? Underwood? Think an argument is there that not one of those guys is a better hire than stallings

Exactly. Well said. And it is obvious that Jamie was held in high regard by the national media, but I also think the media is remembering the first 8 years much moreso than the last 5 years, were Pitt has been pretty ordinary.

 

[NTOP]

-Im enjoying this 10 fold because something is going to give this year. Either Stallings loses and the lion boosters and fanbase is going to rip into Barnes and come after him hard for the hire. Or Stallings wins and Dixon and Knight look like underachieving losers. One way or the other someone is going to win, someone is going to lose. Someone is going to get praised, someone is going to get scorned. Someone is going to look smart, someone is going to look like a complete dumb ass. Someone is going to win, someone is going to have egg all over their face. I enjoy these articles coming out and hope they come out hourly instead of daily, because the more gas that is thrown into the fire, the stakes are clearly getting raised on what is going to happen.

Ridiculous. If Stallings has a good year, it's with Dixon's players. More power to him. If he craters, more shame to Barnes. Don't expect lights out, though, as Dixon supposedly couldn't recruit well enough to win.
Frankly, I don't care what national OR local writers have to say. Lots of folks were up in arms when Dixon was hired....by Nordenberg. They shut up after 31-5. Let's see what KS can do.

 

[NTOP]

I think the initial reaction covered this.

But people forget a couple important facts:

1. Jamie Dixon left on his own. We didn't force him we didn't push him. So if the replacement on paper doesn't look as good as Dixon, so what? We didn't have a choice in the matter. He was the 7th highest paid coach in the NCAA we couldn't justify paying him anymore.

2. There are legit road blocks at Vanderbilt. It's funny the same people that incessantly excused Dixon because of Pitts lack of tradition and recruiting road blocks won't acknowledge the challenges stallings had.

3. Finally who was hired that was better?

Pastner? Piskiell? Drew? Underwood? Think an argument is there that not one of those guys is a better hire than stallings

You have no proof that Dixon wasn't pushed out. None. and I have no proof he was. None. But Barnes lied.
As to who was a better choice?? Dixon, emphatically.

 

[GoPittO6]

Boy, the people "willing to give Stallings a chance" sure seem to act like they're doing him a favor as they sit with their hand on guillotine blade's release handle.

Jamie isn't coming back and Pat Forde is an empty headed guy who writes puff pieces

No, the person who did Stallings a favor was Barnes... when he hired him away from the Vandy folks who wanted rid of him anyway.

When I say "I'll give him a chance", I say it tongue in cheek. It's not up to me to give chances. Stallings was foisted on me. He's the coach now whether I like it or not, and I highly doubt he gives two $#!+s whether I like it.

 

[levance2]

Ridiculous. If Stallings has a good year, it's with Dixon's players. More power to him. If he craters, more shame to Barnes. Don't expect lights out, though, as Dixon supposedly couldn't recruit well enough to win.

It's more likely the opposite, with the new vocal minority who act like Stallings is a future HOFer. If Stallings loses, it is because Dixon recruited a bunch of terrible players. If Stallings wins, it proves that Dixon was too uptight to change his system. The narrative is established.

Barnes wanted a coach to "recruit his tail off", and Stallings kept all of Dixon's recruits.

 

[yourhired]

I happen to enjoy Pat Forde opinion over a Jeff Goodman we can all agree no one on this board saw Kevin Stallings being hired. I hope Stallings is successful and Barnes is going to do everything in his power to make sure he does. Do I think Jamie was pushed out no but I don't believe Pitt stopped him from leaving similar to Vanderbilt with Stallings. It will be interesting to see how it pans out.

 

[Swervin27]

That's it right there. Dixon knew things were deteriorating here and he knew he wasn't the guy to fix it.

You can view it as Dixon running away from his problems, or you can view it as Dixon doing the honorable thing and stepping aside.

Either way... the next hire was crucial and deserved a better effort and process.

I'll "give Stallings a chance".... whatever that means... because I have no choice. I have to hope he can find a way to take Pitt back to the level we now know is possible for the program.

But if he doesn't, I won't be upset with him... because I really don't think he should have been here in the first place. It's Barnes I'll be angry with.

What I'm realy hoping is that Pitt fans don't allow the narrative to shift away from Barnes' blunder over the next few years. I'm not saying we need 10 posts a day on it, but maybe a few reminders now and then about how this all played out. I know how a lot of posters like to adopt the "____-is-God" mentality when it comes to Pitt coaches and administrators.

great post..

You have no proof that Dixon wasn't pushed out. None. and I have no proof he was. None. But Barnes lied.
As to who was a better choice?? Dixon, emphatically.

how bout his own words saying he went to his dream job? Wouldn't that be proof?

 

[NTOP]

great post..

how bout his own words saying he went to his dream job? Wouldn't that be proof?

Nope.....why didn't he take that "dream job" previously?? When he sais a year ago that he wanted to stay here until he retired....was that proof?? Something happened in the interim.....Barnes.

 

[Pittguy1980]

Maybe Dixon wasn't pushed out, but the boosters absolutely had a part in him wanting to leave.

As far as stallings, I expect a top 6 seed next year, and to win 11+ ACC games as he has a pretty good roster coming back. If he does any worse than that, Barnes needs to be shown the door.

 

[Pittguy1980]

Nope.....why didn't he take that "dream job" previously?? When he sais a year ago that he wanted to stay here until he retired....was that proof?? Something happened in the interim.....Barnes.

Dixon would have never agreed to a 10 million dollar buyout if he really wanted to leave.

 

[Swervin27]

Nope.....why didn't he take that "dream job" previously?? When he sais a year ago that he wanted to stay here until he retired....was that proof?? Something happened in the interim.....Barnes.

I guess it depends on what would have made him stay. He was under contract, was he looking for another raise or extension? Not sure what was said behind closed doors.. Just once it would have been nice if Dixon stopped these rumors without getting a raise first..

 

[Atch]

Those that follow college hoops know Pat Forde. He's very very well known, and very knowledgeable.

I've followed college basketball religiously for over fifty years and never heard the name Pat Ford. Am I supposed to be impressed with him after he makes two contradictory statements in the same sentence?

 

[playtowin1]

Are people forgetting what has happened here the last two years. Last year we lost five straight games at the ene of the year and didn't make the tourney. This year,we make the tourney as a 10 seed and play an ugly game and lose. Attendance was slipping badly and quite frankly this program was in a non momementon, stuck, neutral, say what you want mode. It is certainly reasonable for an AD to see this, sit down with the coach to see what the coaches plans are for the future. Jamie was a solid coach,but not without faults. Recruting was a problem, attendance was a problem, enthusiasm for the program was slipping and any AD seeing these things has not only a right but a responsibility to address these issues. As far as his hire, that will be on him and that reamains to be seen. People look at Stallings past record and use that as an indicator that he won't do well. If you take a look at his record, there are also indicators in there that suggest that he could do well. He had some very good years at Vanderbilt and Illonois State. Good Luck coach Stallings.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

Are people forgetting what has happened here the last two years

It definitely embarrassed some big money people.

 

[Swervin27]

Are people forgetting what has happened here the last two years

It definitely embarrassed some big money people.

OK, well im definitely confused now. What happened here the last two years that embarrassed big money people?

 

[GoPittO6]

I've followed college basketball religiously for over fifty years and never heard the name Pat Ford. Am I supposed to be impressed with him after he makes two contradictory statements in the same sentence?

You're either not telling the truth or you're really, really not keeping up with the sport the way you imagine you are.

Not that it matters... it's just one man's opinion. But I, for one, am on board with it.

 

[Swervin27]

You're either not telling the truth or you're really, really not keeping up with the sport the way you imagine you are.

Not that it matters... it's just one man's opinion. But I, for one, am on board with it.

im a college hoops fan too and I've never heard of him.. never found value in following national media types with regards to their coverage of local teams.. Is there anything that he or any national blogger can tell you or write about that you don't already know about your team? Its like reading about pirates pitching manager article in SI, cool that he gets the recognition but is there anything in that article that I don't already know? Of course not.. That's why im not too interested in reading national bloggers/writers and their coverage of pitt..

 

[Pittbaseball11]

This is the only line that matters:

"For both Pitt and Tech, basketball insiders say their lofty initial hopes were shot down."

At that point, you're just trying to make the best out of a less than desirable situation. And I think Stallings is a much better option than taking a shot on a low-major guy who has never had to perform at anywhere near a P5 level.

My initial reaction the Stallings hire was disappointment, but once word started leaking from various sources that Pitt was told no by their first batch of targets then I don't really know what else they could have done.

IMO, if Stallings can have some success and show that somebody outside of Dixon can sustain something here, then Pitt could maybe have a better chance at bringing somebody in next time around.

 

[QuitCallingMeWanny]

Exactly. Well said. And it is obvious that Jamie was held in high regard by the national media, but I also think the media is remembering the first 8 years much moreso than the last 5 years, were Pitt has been pretty ordinary.

Hell the national media was still praising Pitt for tough physical D, when in fact this wave of players wouldn't put a hard body on you unless the opposing player ran into them

 

[QuitCallingMeWanny]

I've followed college basketball religiously for over fifty years and never heard the name Pat Ford. Am I supposed to be impressed with him after he makes two contradictory statements in the same sentence?

His bread and butter is college football, and he is,, admittedly very good with that