Pat Forde weighs in on the Stallings hire, and it's not good
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-So we should give Dixon credit for winning next year, when he couldnt win in the NCAA Tournament again this year and he left? Why would I give Dixon any credit for next years team? If Dixon thought the grass was Brown on Pitt's team going into next year and the future and he left for TCU, now we are supposed to give him credit? Dixon is gone, so is Knight. Now we have a contest.
Stallings and Barnes vs Dixon and Knight. Its on the table now.
-No one is giving Pitt respect next year. No one. A team that returns 6 of its top 7 scorers that made the NCAA Tournament, had a Top 50 offense and defense in efficiency, and had wins over a Sweet 16 team, and Elite 8 team, and 3 wins over a Final 4 team. Ive never heard of such lunacy (of getting no hype at all after all that outside the fact most sportwriters thinks Stallings is garbage and Barnes is a jackass for hiring him. Stallings and Barnes are expected to win now. Not tomorrow, not 3 years from today, not under the 17 year plan, NOW.
For starters... I don't believe good-faith discussions were had with the list of names we all saw tossed around right after the hire. I looks to me (and many others) like Stallings was the lazy-at-best, crony-at-worst, option.
But, if true that Pitt was roundly rejected by so many after serious talks, then that's on Barnes. There's no excuse. He failed to sell the job and did us all a huge disservice.
Some people would have us all believe that Pitt is a terrible job, where nobody can win, where the fans are ungrateful idiots who don't deserve anything, where the weather is a serious deterrent to any basketball coach, located in the only town in America where the media is tough on the team and sub-par.
Those self-loathers need to get a grip. Focus the negativity away from Pitt and squarely on the moron Barnes, where it belongs.
S.O.P. is to NOT comment, unless you have absolutely no interest. I changed jobs a lot, never leveraged an offer from elsewhere. Of course, I only had a couple dollars as a buyout...the highest was $4.79.
I believe big money boosters had a hand in Dixon leaving. They were making noise for a while and Dixon leaving was pretty much a foregone conclusion weeks before the Wisky game. And Barnes lied through the whole process, search firm and all. I also agree with the statement that someone made that no matter how this Stallings thing transpires, we should not forget that our AD lied and is not a man of integrity and decency. Regardless of what Stallings does or doesn't do, Barnes is not my choice as an AD and I want him gone.
I also expect Stallings to get us back in the NCAAT as a minimum 6 seed next year and win 11+ ACC games, or the season and his evaluation will be one of a major underachievement. Do I think he'll be able to do that? No, I don't. But this won't be Stallings' fault. This is 100% on Barnes and the big money boosters. They will have to answer for this. It was a mediocre hire made by an incompetent AD pressured by a bunch of big mouth donors.
This is more or less exactly what college coaches were telling people when asked about their interest in the job.
Whether you believe it or not, that matters very little. All that matters is how the people who will be courted here perceive it.
Hell, you have literally one timeframe where you can frame Dixon's tenure as a failure (ironically, it's a different timeframe than the one used last year as the optimum time period to evaluate a coach by, although it's the same posters who are using the arbitrary endpoints to suit their needs) and there are people who are dumb enough to cling to it and go down kicking and screaming about it being relevant.
Any sort of criticisms of the fans and (espcially) the Pittsburgh media are totally warranted, IMO.
I believe big money boosters had a hand in Dixon leaving.
-You can bet your life savings on that because its a sure winning comment.
Nonsense...you have no idea what transpired. At the LEAST, 12 of 13 kids on scholie are Dixon recruits. I hope they have a great year. But it'll take a while to make this Stallings recruits. So, if the results this coming year aren't as good as last season, shouldn't KS take some heat?? He's walked into a better situation, but a deeper conference. I'll be OK if he makes the NCAAT. Dixon's work at TCU will be tougher....they're in worse shape than Pitt was in 1999....no Ricky Greer. I doubt he'll have a winning season.
And Barnes can't recruit & Knight is out of the picture. Nice try. Consensus on this board seemed to be that Pitt will be better w/o JRob. I hope so....I like the 3 new guys, and maybe KS can snare a center.
Where were you in the 1980's?? Pitt was a mess. Lots of interference, bad admin. Sound familiar??
-100% Stallings and Barnes will be taking MAJOR heat if Pitt fails this year. Bank on it.
I'd HIGHLY recommend national writers/bloggers over Pittsburgh's mainstream media for almost anything. Pirates and Penguins have some good niche blogs, but DK, the Trib, the Post-Gazette, and BCT are trash.
That's spin. Or do you have quotes from coaches? I'm guessing John Miller is the best you can do. But, if you've got a quote from a current coach, please link. As far as I can tell, this narrative can be sourced back to Pitt's own athletic department. Neither Matt, nor any other source close to the action indicated that people were crapping on the Pitt job... as far as I remember. In fact, Stallings was a name that snuck up on everybody and then.. BOOM.. the ink was dry. It's too convenient to say everybody hated the Pitt job.
What in the world are you talking about with that last bit? Dixon did a fantastic job here. Then he let it run off the rails. Nobody's saying he was a failure, in total. He just ceased to be the right man for the job.. for several reasons... not the least of which were that his heart wasn't in it, or that his weakness as a recruiter were exacerbated by the ACC move.
You still refuse to answer my question after a week.....that's ok I get it, you hope to keep throwing something out there i.e. Barnes lied, no integrity, yada, yada, yada, hopefully it will stick for you...
get a clue
I don't know, with this situation, what is this guy going to tell you about stallings that hasn't been discussed a million times on this board. What is some ACC blogger going to tell you about pitt football that, again, hasn't been discussed on here countless times?? Just don't see the point.. I know about stallings and what he did at Vanderbilt, some guy on yahoo sports (or wherever he is from) isn't opening my eyes or exposing me to anything I don't already know..
I think everybody who had sources on the coaching side is saying one thing, while everybody who had sources on the Pitt side is saying nothing. To me, one of those is far more credible than the other.
How's Ray Mernagh's tweet where he polled coaches and they put it in the 50-60 range work for you? He's a Pittsburgh guy, he wrote for this site, and has contacts all throughout the industry. Is that enough, or are we going to move the arbitrary line of where "credibility" lies in this search again?
The final paragraph was just showing how dumb and infantile a relatively sizable portion of the fanbase is. They had one point they could use to paint Dixon in a bad light (after defending their use of a DIFFERENT point in time last year) and just clung to it and shouted it from the rooftops over and over.
Why would coaches feel like that's a rational fanbase with reasonable expectations?
Yeah, Forde rehashed things a bit. Still, though, I thought Parrish was excellent during his coverage of Pitt's job search.
I do agree that this site specifically is very, very good in its coverage and scoops. I think nationally though you have some writers who really actually know their stuff and have legitimate contacts. That, to me, has value. I don't need to read Rob Rossi articles about the Pirates owing Neil Walker a contract because he's from Pittsburgh (which is about the level of analysis most mainstream Pittsburgh writers offer) when I can instead read a national guy who breaks down the pros and cons of the move and sees the big picture.
The facts are all out there for you to see. It's not my job to explain this to you if you aren't capable of seeing what is happening here. I don't have the time for that. I suggest you open your eyes.
Remember Ed Bozik? Bob Heddleston? We could be heading there if we aren't careful.
national guys come in from a blimp view as opposed to a possible biased view of a local guy, i'll give you that. I like the fine details though, info I don't know about. I've been very critical of football beat writers for pitt (Werner and dipalo) but was impressed last year, especially with Werner. Give me the updates that I don't know about, I'm not concerned about what some girl who writes for espn, thinks about the ACC and where we'll end up at, I have my own opinions on that and have just as much info as she/he does..
No, Ray Mernagh is a great source. Let's go with his 40-50 range. Stallings was the best available option for a top 40-50 job?
Is USC in the top 50? Is Vanderbilt, where Drew landed, a top 50 job? How about Oklahoma State? Xavier?
If it's true that Stallings really was a last ditch hire after numerous whifs... why are the list of schools so.... Pitt-like?
And let's not forget... Pitt was paying its hoops coach quite nicely.
There's a difference between reporting and editorializing. In the age of blogs and blog networks, a lot more people are offering what you describe. Guys like Katz, Forde, etc. have actual sources and industry contacts. They aren't just throwing darts at the wall like Curtain on how well he thinks a new coach will do. They are actually talking to people involved. I don't personally like Zeise, but he had some interesting counterarguments with quotes from Howland, etc. praising Stallings. Nobody on this board is going to get Howland quotes, but actual reporters do that.
Purely a guess, but USC is probably a solid job nationally. Plenty of resources, low pressure, fantastic talent base, the West Coast is pretty wide open when it comes to competing for talent. Drew wasn't coming to a public school, so of course Vanderbilt makes sense. Oklahoma State and Xavier are both great jobs.
Even Memphis has been mentioned recently as being perceived as a fantastic job nationally.
I don't think it's like football at all where being P5 is a massive advantage.
I also think Dixon's pay is overstated. $1.5MM base with a bunch of incentives. If Pitt wants to pay a heavily incentive-laden deal, that's probably smart given their lack of resources. However, that's not really going to be overly enticing to these coaches-- particularly given what Dixon was more or less run off for.
Much easier to just get paid comparably at a mid-major school and then jump to a job that affords an easier path to winning.
I think that is a "trap" that a lot of us fell into. I agree, how would a small school like Nova or Xavier ever be considered a better job than a program in a P5 conference? holds water with football, not so much with hoops..
-Really? Because the preseason National Basketball rankings last year were a complete joke? Want to talk about it?
1) Oregon-Preseason unranked-Pac-12 Champion and Elite 8
2) Xavier-Preseason unranked- Finished as a 2 seed and one of the best teams in the country
3) Miami-Preseason unranked- Finished 3rd in the ACC, got a 3 seed, went to the Sweet 16
4) Louisville-Preseason unranked- Went to the Top 10 fast, then the sex scandal exploded and Louisville banned itself from the tournament
5) Kentucky- hyped to death preseason. Preseason #1, I said all along that team would bust, they couldnt shoot. Ncaa 2nd round loser, bust
6) Duke-Preseason Top 5. I said all along that team would bust, weak on defense. Did make the Sweet 16, but got their ass handed to them by Oregon and needed a come from behind victory in the 2nd half to beat Wilmington.
7) I make a lot more money then any of those guys. And I know a lot more about sports and college basketball then any of those guys. I told everyone Pitt would make the Tournament last year when no one predicted it preseason.
8) You can take your darts and do what you will with them. I couldnt care about a preseason prediction, because last years were a laughingstock joke.
9) The only reason Pitt fails next year is because of Stallings. The ACC got ripped with player losses this offseason. The league will be way down in comparison to last year.
The difference in football is that even most P5 schools are objectively out of contention for the playoff. Pitt might be lucky to make it once in 25 years. The barrier for entry for a competitive basketball team is significantly lower.
I think the real issue is more that fans and ADs at P5 schools are becoming increasingly impatient with coaches. There's almost zero reason to take a job with a losing or mediocre school in a P5 league at this point, because you're almost surely going to get fired within 4-6 years. There's only a few guys like Stallings that managed to hang around so long with arguably mediocre results: Hamilton, Romar, etc.
As I said in another thread, positive momentum these days is incredibly over-valued, and incredibly fleeting. If you're Marshall and take a job at Rutgers, for instance, you're going to use up all your mojo very quickly and suddenly you're just another average coach. These guys (Marshall, Smart, Few, etc.) can name their job, and it's pretty wise of them to not make a dumb choice.
Pretty much. People took a "well just offer him $3MM and he can't turn it down" stance....but are you really THAT much worse off by taking $1.5-2.0MM a year at your mid-major job for another 2 or 3 years, and then waiting for a really prime job to open up? I don't think so.
Illinois took that approach with Shaka Smart. They threw something crazy at him per year and assumed he'd take it, but he just turned it down and waited for Texas to open up a year or two later. Sure, he forfeited a little bit of money in the short term but the long-term payoff of winding up at Texas compared to Illinois could be huge.
Yes, it might be difficult for a coach to turn down $3.0MM if you wave it in front of him, but these guys have agents representing them and the agents are almost assuredly going to take a long-view approach to this process.
From my recollection, expecting this team to barely make the field was pretty much the consensus last year, myself included. If you want to pound your chest based on that prediction, go right ahead.
I don't value your predictions at all, nor do I value the predictions of anyone else. My only point was that you aren't picking up the phone and talking with coaches, players, or administrators. Reporters deal with facts, editorials speak with conjecture. You've already anointed Stallings as COY practically, and there's no factual basis to back it up. There are no facts here, because we're talking about events that haven't happened.
-Anointed Stallings Coach of the year? I most certainly did NOT. I most certainly did say Pitt has more than enough talent to win multiple NCAA Tournament games. I most certainly did NOT hype Stallings, ever. I most certainly did say Ill give Stallings a chance. I most certainly did NOT say Pitt was making a huge run next year. I most certainly did say Stalling is very much a wait and see hire, meaning, he could be good or bad.
yep, realistically there are 4-6 teams that even have a remote chance to win the National championship, in hoops, much different.. Outside of ND, an non P5 program has zero chance of winning it, in football.
Are you certain you said these things?
The search. Probably was locked up much sooner. Also about why Dixon left. Too cut & dried.
Simply conjecture on your part. I guess you're one of the folks that has Barnes as the new boogieman in Pitt sports world
Is Pitt a losing or mediocre school? Is that why we were left with what Vanderbilt was ready to toss?
We earn like a top 25 program and pay like a top 15 program. Over the past decade and a half we've won like a top 10 program (tourney excepted).
But when Barnes handles the first important decision of his Pitt career like a complete ass, we start rationalizing that Pitt deserved it. Like we're not as worthy as Wichita State or VCU ...right.
Maybe Pitt's fan base is the problem after all.
I have him as enemy #1, at least until he apologizes for referring to me as "noise."
No, but we are closer to that then elite. An up-and-comer would have a good shot with Pitt, but one of top targets is looking for better. My thought was more along the lines of Wake Forest or USF. Antigua might have ended his career by going there.
Well, kind of yeah. Pitt is irrelevant nationally in football, and as per the view of coaches a top 50-60 basketball program, that Jamie Dixon kept at a top 20 level. Without a lights out basketball coach, the basketball program will join the football program--entirely off the national radar. That's why it was so critical to hire an up and comer. Yeah he might have failed, but if they fell to like the 110th best program, so what? After about 35 it doesn't matter at all.
Quote of the year.
-Really? When did I hype him. Find 1 post I hyped him. Thanks.
