Penn State "gets it" vs Pitt when it comes to football

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

How am I going to put this without bringing out the dramatics of the sins of Penn State past? I am not absolving them of what happened up there. Paterno can rot in hell. Sandusky, Spanier, Schultz, Curley can soon join them. The PSU fans were and have been generally despicable in their actions and attitude. But.....college football is a big business, and it is seriously important to them.

Again, I am not advocating the actions before and during all of the scandal. All of the JoePa statue stuff, the restoring of wins, etc... I am not talking about that. I am talking how they have come out of it with purpose and focus. Admirable might now be right word, but their singular focus on restoring their "ROAR" is impressive. Sure, some PSU fans were so repulsed and revolted that they went away...forever. But they weren't as many as we thought, and this season brought many of them back. I will get to my point in a few. They didn't run and hide and cower in a corner. They were bold. They hired Mark Barron, the former FSU President who presided over Jameis Winston's sexual assualt allegations not to mention many other stuff surrounding FSU's football program. They went out and hired, and paid a huge sum of money, to the only coach at that moment who was presiding over a sexual assault allegation and possible cover up. This after...well you know.

Contrast that with Pitt. Have tremendous success in football, completely with colorful characters, big personality at coach, big wins, etc...how does Pitt react? lose the football coach. Hire a recruiting phenomenon who was assembling a program with NFL talent like Jackie did, albeit maybe with some questionable ways, fire the coach. Lose an entire basketball recruiting class in the early 90's to Prop 48? How does Pitt react? Basically try to kill major college sports at Pitt. Finally gain some swagger back to the football program, yet have alot of minor off field incidents that prompts the SI to headline them in an article? Fire the coach and hire a "disciplinarian". Who lasted 3 weeks before he decided to dole out some discipline to his Baby Mama. Then go out and hire the guy the AD has been thirsting for because he was High Octane, unfortunately who was low character.

Pitt seems embarrassed with any athletic success. If you have read any history with Pitt, you will see this was true back in the Jock Sutherland days. Anytime Pitt sports has gotten up to a national level with swagger, it recoils. The fact is, you cannot have truly BIG TIME athletics without some of the garbage that comes with it. Especially nowadays. Penn State, singular in purpose, has not let the biggest scandal stand in the way of their goal, football. Perhaps now what has changed is the outside world now realizes the "success with honor" crap was just that, crap and lies, and they never can pull the wool over the public again in that isolated school. But? In a college sports world controlled by ESPN, we just saw PSU celebrated with the only mention of the scandal to references of "recovering" and the admittance that none of the players or coaches were there then.

We just saw one of the more famous talking heads admonish people for criticizing Joe Mixon of Oklahoma, and telling people he is basically a good dude. You have the mouth in basketball, Dickie V, who gives truly spectacular and impassioned speeches to kids about drugs and violence and stuff, yet continually celebrates Rick Pitino or John Calipari. Penn State gets it. Pitt doesn't. Big time college sports is about winning. Winning which hopefully leads to profit. But it is not a referendum on morality.

Congrats Penn State. You are. You are Ohio State. You are Alabama. You are USC. You are Florida State. You are Oklahoma. You want success, the honor part is negotiable. Unfortunately for us Pitt sports fans, the honor part hasn't been negotiable. At least long enough for the programs to ever sprout deep roots.

 

[tetonpanther]

How am I going to put this without bringing out the dramatics of the sins of Penn State past? I am not absolving them of what happened up there. Paterno can rot in hell. Sandusky, Spanier, Schultz, Curley can soon join them. The PSU fans were and have been generally despicable in their actions and attitude. But.....college football is a big business, and it is seriously important to them.

Again, I am not advocating the actions before and during all of the scandal. All of the JoePa statue stuff, the restoring of wins, etc... I am not talking about that. I am talking how they have come out of it with purpose and focus. Admirable might now be right word, but their singular focus on restoring their "ROAR" is impressive. Sure, some PSU fans were so repulsed and revolted that they went away...forever. But they weren't as many as we thought, and this season brought many of them back. I will get to my point in a few. They didn't run and hide and cower in a corner. They were bold. They hired Mark Barron, the former FSU President who presided over Jameis Winston's sexual assualt allegations not to mention many other stuff surrounding FSU's football program. They went out and hired, and paid a huge sum of money, to the only coach at that moment who was presiding over a sexual assault allegation and possible cover up. This after...well you know.

Contrast that with Pitt. Have tremendous success in football, completely with colorful characters, big personality at coach, big wins, etc...how does Pitt react? lose the football coach. Hire a recruiting phenomenon who was assembling a program with NFL talent like Jackie did, albeit maybe with some questionable ways, fire the coach. Lose an entire basketball recruiting class in the early 90's to Prop 48? How does Pitt react? Basically try to kill major college sports at Pitt. Finally gain some swagger back to the football program, yet have alot of minor off field incidents that prompts the SI to headline them in an article? Fire the coach and hire a "disciplinarian". Who lasted 3 weeks before he decided to dole out some discipline to his Baby Mama. Then go out and hire the guy the AD has been thirsting for because he was High Octane, unfortunately who was low character.

Pitt seems embarrassed with any athletic success. If you have read any history with Pitt, you will see this was true back in the Jock Sutherland days. Anytime Pitt sports has gotten up to a national level with swagger, it recoils. The fact is, you cannot have truly BIG TIME athletics without some of the garbage that comes with it. Especially nowadays. Penn State, singular in purpose, has not let the biggest scandal stand in the way of their goal, football. Perhaps now what has changed is the outside world now realizes the "success with honor" crap was just that, crap and lies, and they never can pull the wool over the public again in that isolated school. But? In a college sports world controlled by ESPN, we just saw PSU celebrated with the only mention of the scandal to references of "recovering" and the admittance that none of the players or coaches were there then.

We just saw one of the more famous talking heads admonish people for criticizing Joe Mixon of Oklahoma, and telling people he is basically a good dude. You have the mouth in basketball, Dickie V, who gives truly spectacular and impassioned speeches to kids about drugs and violence and stuff, yet continually celebrates Rick Pitino or John Calipari. Penn State gets it. Pitt doesn't. Big time college sports is about winning. Winning which hopefully leads to profit. But it is not a referendum on morality.

Congrats Penn State. You are. You are Ohio State. You are Alabama. You are USC. You are Florida State. You are Oklahoma. You want success, the honor part is negotiable. Unfortunately for us Pitt sports fans, the honor part hasn't been negotiable. At least long enough for the programs to ever sprout deep roots.

GEE THANKS MR OBVIOUS,. YOU ARE A LIFE SAVER.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

GEE THANKS MR OBVIOUS,. YOU ARE A LIFE SAVER.

yes it is obvious but it bears repeating joe, er, teton. Schools that want to win don't suspend star running backs for hitting woman. They pay 4 million for a coach that is connected to a sex assualt case even though you are fresh from a sex assault saga of your own. They skirt the rule of only 9 full time assistant coaches by hiring 10 people in the role of "analyst". they employ "bag men" to do the heavy lifting in recruiting.

those are the things you need to do to win.

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

How am I going to put this without bringing out the dramatics of the sins of Penn State past? I am not absolving them of what happened up there. Paterno can rot in hell. Sandusky, Spanier, Schultz, Curley can soon join them. The PSU fans were and have been generally despicable in their actions and attitude. But.....college football is a big business, and it is seriously important to them.

Again, I am not advocating the actions before and during all of the scandal. All of the JoePa statue stuff, the restoring of wins, etc... I am not talking about that. I am talking how they have come out of it with purpose and focus. Admirable might now be right word, but their singular focus on restoring their "ROAR" is impressive. Sure, some PSU fans were so repulsed and revolted that they went away...forever. But they weren't as many as we thought, and this season brought many of them back. I will get to my point in a few. They didn't run and hide and cower in a corner. They were bold. They hired Mark Barron, the former FSU President who presided over Jameis Winston's sexual assualt allegations not to mention many other stuff surrounding FSU's football program. They went out and hired, and paid a huge sum of money, to the only coach at that moment who was presiding over a sexual assault allegation and possible cover up. This after...well you know.

Contrast that with Pitt. Have tremendous success in football, completely with colorful characters, big personality at coach, big wins, etc...how does Pitt react? lose the football coach. Hire a recruiting phenomenon who was assembling a program with NFL talent like Jackie did, albeit maybe with some questionable ways, fire the coach. Lose an entire basketball recruiting class in the early 90's to Prop 48? How does Pitt react? Basically try to kill major college sports at Pitt. Finally gain some swagger back to the football program, yet have alot of minor off field incidents that prompts the SI to headline them in an article? Fire the coach and hire a "disciplinarian". Who lasted 3 weeks before he decided to dole out some discipline to his Baby Mama. Then go out and hire the guy the AD has been thirsting for because he was High Octane, unfortunately who was low character.

Pitt seems embarrassed with any athletic success. If you have read any history with Pitt, you will see this was true back in the Jock Sutherland days. Anytime Pitt sports has gotten up to a national level with swagger, it recoils. The fact is, you cannot have truly BIG TIME athletics without some of the garbage that comes with it. Especially nowadays. Penn State, singular in purpose, has not let the biggest scandal stand in the way of their goal, football. Perhaps now what has changed is the outside world now realizes the "success with honor" crap was just that, crap and lies, and they never can pull the wool over the public again in that isolated school. But? In a college sports world controlled by ESPN, we just saw PSU celebrated with the only mention of the scandal to references of "recovering" and the admittance that none of the players or coaches were there then.

We just saw one of the more famous talking heads admonish people for criticizing Joe Mixon of Oklahoma, and telling people he is basically a good dude. You have the mouth in basketball, Dickie V, who gives truly spectacular and impassioned speeches to kids about drugs and violence and stuff, yet continually celebrates Rick Pitino or John Calipari. Penn State gets it. Pitt doesn't. Big time college sports is about winning. Winning which hopefully leads to profit. But it is not a referendum on morality.

Congrats Penn State. You are. You are Ohio State. You are Alabama. You are USC. You are Florida State. You are Oklahoma. You want success, the honor part is negotiable. Unfortunately for us Pitt sports fans, the honor part hasn't been negotiable. At least long enough for the programs to ever sprout deep roots.

Good Post:

The Penn State Scandal is not over until the Criminal & Civil Court Allegations are decided, settled, or dismissed.

The Penn State Football Program Scandal is over as far as NCAA, Clery Act and Big Ten and the way to get pass it is to accept that Penn State University reformed, corrected non-compliance and rules breaking, and is in total compliance with all Laws, Regulations, and Rules. Penn State is now a Model of Compliance and they have Trustees that appointed President Erickson, AD Joyner, and Louis Freeh that did investigate and put in 2012 Reforms. Only the Cult Dolts can't accept it and refuse to recognize it and still think Old Slogans Myths Matter.

The Penn State Football Program under President Erickson, AD Joyner and Athletic Integrity Officer Del Giorno brought in and approved of James Franklin and the Cult's Dolts have to accept Coach Franklin is doing better and following the Laws, Rules and Regulations unlike under President Spanier in the previous Football Era and now recruiting even better.

The NCAA, Big Ten, and Federal Educational & DOJ Title IX Policies hold the college Presidents to implement and follow the Laws & Rules, no one else. The Clery Report Findings found the previous Football Program requiring fines and Penn State did not contest those findings or fines. The Program is clean and free of all NCAA & Big Ten Sanctions and in Compliance with all Federal State Educational Laws.

Pitt is rebuilding its own Football Program and now in 5th year in the ACC and with a Head Coach going on his 3rd Year. Pitt has much more to do and grow back to Top 25 Rankings and Winning but all Three Programs were very even this year in playing and winning. Pitt had the tougher schedule as seen now, Penn State won the Big Ten, and WVU returned to 10 Wins.

Whether you want to accept it not, Pitt once again had 3 more Consensus All Americans at 8-5 than Penn State and WVU. Pitt still leads in NCS and Consensus All Americans then PSU & WVU combined. Pitt Alumni still have Greater Records in NCAA & NFL as well. Keep that in mind too when talking Big Time Athletics and both are still chasing Pitt's & Pitt Alumni Player's Accomplishments of Autumn as their Older Brother being the First University West of the Alleghenies.

Pitt Graduates were being employed as Administrators, Professors, and Staff to build WVU & PSU 75 years ahead of the 1862 Morrill Land-Grant Colleges Act. They owe Pitt Graduates a Debt of Gratitude for taking jobs that ordain the creation The Pennsylvania Farmer's High School and Agricultural College of West Virginia for their First Alumni. After all, just like in Football Pitt Leadership added to Penn State and West Virginia University dedication and establishments.

Up to Pitt, Penn State and WVU to figure it out, they are better playing together. It was enjoyable to watch all 3 Teams again and still are and always have been Rivals among each other than any other Universities in their Conferences.

Hope they all do well in 2017 again too!

 

[revampedpanthers]

yes it is obvious but it bears repeating joe, er, teton. Schools that want to win don't suspend star running backs for hitting woman. They pay 4 million for a coach that is connected to a sex assualt case even though you are fresh from a sex assault saga of your own. They skirt the rule of only 9 full time assistant coaches by hiring 10 people in the role of "analyst". they employ "bag men" to do the heavy lifting in recruiting.

those are the things you need to do to win.

Agree schools that really want to win don't throw 4 star elite 11 QB's out because of a assualt charge. Pitt did that, OK cares more about winning. Pitt has on occasion not bothered to offer kids based on past trouble, teams like WVU have had convicted felons on their team. Actually don't think, other than the whole covering up child rape for decades, PSU is as bad as places like wvu, louisville etc. Those schools basically take anyone that can write their name(they might even help them with that) and can play their sport well. There is no act so bad that if they aren't in prison that would keep the school from giving the kid a ship.

 

[upj87]

How am I going to put this without bringing out the dramatics of the sins of Penn State past? I am not absolving them of what happened up there. Paterno can rot in hell. Sandusky, Spanier, Schultz, Curley can soon join them. The PSU fans were and have been generally despicable in their actions and attitude. But.....college football is a big business, and it is seriously important to them.

Again, I am not advocating the actions before and during all of the scandal. All of the JoePa statue stuff, the restoring of wins, etc... I am not talking about that. I am talking how they have come out of it with purpose and focus. Admirable might now be right word, but their singular focus on restoring their "ROAR" is impressive. Sure, some PSU fans were so repulsed and revolted that they went away...forever. But they weren't as many as we thought, and this season brought many of them back. I will get to my point in a few. They didn't run and hide and cower in a corner. They were bold. They hired Mark Barron, the former FSU President who presided over Jameis Winston's sexual assualt allegations not to mention many other stuff surrounding FSU's football program. They went out and hired, and paid a huge sum of money, to the only coach at that moment who was presiding over a sexual assault allegation and possible cover up. This after...well you know.

Contrast that with Pitt. Have tremendous success in football, completely with colorful characters, big personality at coach, big wins, etc...how does Pitt react? lose the football coach. Hire a recruiting phenomenon who was assembling a program with NFL talent like Jackie did, albeit maybe with some questionable ways, fire the coach. Lose an entire basketball recruiting class in the early 90's to Prop 48? How does Pitt react? Basically try to kill major college sports at Pitt. Finally gain some swagger back to the football program, yet have alot of minor off field incidents that prompts the SI to headline them in an article? Fire the coach and hire a "disciplinarian". Who lasted 3 weeks before he decided to dole out some discipline to his Baby Mama. Then go out and hire the guy the AD has been thirsting for because he was High Octane, unfortunately who was low character.

Pitt seems embarrassed with any athletic success. If you have read any history with Pitt, you will see this was true back in the Jock Sutherland days. Anytime Pitt sports has gotten up to a national level with swagger, it recoils. The fact is, you cannot have truly BIG TIME athletics without some of the garbage that comes with it. Especially nowadays. Penn State, singular in purpose, has not let the biggest scandal stand in the way of their goal, football. Perhaps now what has changed is the outside world now realizes the "success with honor" crap was just that, crap and lies, and they never can pull the wool over the public again in that isolated school. But? In a college sports world controlled by ESPN, we just saw PSU celebrated with the only mention of the scandal to references of "recovering" and the admittance that none of the players or coaches were there then.

We just saw one of the more famous talking heads admonish people for criticizing Joe Mixon of Oklahoma, and telling people he is basically a good dude. You have the mouth in basketball, Dickie V, who gives truly spectacular and impassioned speeches to kids about drugs and violence and stuff, yet continually celebrates Rick Pitino or John Calipari. Penn State gets it. Pitt doesn't. Big time college sports is about winning. Winning which hopefully leads to profit. But it is not a referendum on morality.

Congrats Penn State. You are. You are Ohio State. You are Alabama. You are USC. You are Florida State. You are Oklahoma. You want success, the honor part is negotiable. Unfortunately for us Pitt sports fans, the honor part hasn't been negotiable. At least long enough for the programs to ever sprout deep roots.

wow you got all of that out of a 52 point 600 yard collapse against a three loss team in a meaningless exhibition game?

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Good Post:

The Penn State Scandal is not over until the Criminal & Civil Court Allegations are decided, settled, or dismissed.

The Penn State Football Program Scandal is over as far as NCAA, Clery Act and Big Ten and the way to get pass it is to accept that Penn State University reformed, corrected non-compliance and rules breaking, and is in total compliance with all Laws, Regulations, and Rules. Penn State is now a Model of Compliance and they have Trustees that appointed President Erickson, AD Joyner, and Louis Freeh that did investigate and put in 2012 Reforms. Only the Cult Dolts can't accept it and refuse to recognize it and still think Old Slogans Myths Matter.

The Penn State Football Program under President Erickson, AD Joyner and Athletic Integrity Officer Del Giorno brought in and approved of James Franklin and the Cult's Dolts have to accept Coach Franklin is doing better and following the Laws, Rules and Regulations unlike under President Spanier in the previous Football Era and now recruiting even better.

The NCAA, Big Ten, and Federal Educational & DOJ Title IX Policies hold the college Presidents to implement and follow the Laws & Rules, no one else. The Clery Report Findings found the previous Football Program requiring fines and Penn State did not contest those findings or fines. The Program is clean and free of all NCAA & Big Ten Sanctions and in Compliance with all Federal State Educational Laws.

Pitt is rebuilding its own Football Program and now in 5th year in the ACC and with a Head Coach going on his 3rd Year. Pitt has much more to do and grow back to Top 25 Rankings and Winning but all Three Programs were very even this year in playing and winning. Pitt had the tougher schedule as seen now, Penn State won the Big Ten, and WVU returned to 10 Wins.

Up to Pitt, Penn State and WVU to figure it out, they are better playing together. It was enjoyable to watch all 3 Teams again and still are and always have been Rivals among each other than any other Universities in their Conferences.

Hope they all do well in 2017 again too!

My point is, aside from taking an obvious gratuitous shot at PSU's ludicrous "succes with honor" crap......is that PSU paid their penance and fought their sanctions and did not self impose their own punishments on the program and did everything they can to try and quickly rebound and build a good team. They didn't wallow and cower and recoil in embarrassment, no matter what others thought. I think Pitt over the years way overreacts to some stuffy donors who don't like sports and also the local media, alot of who who don't like Pitt. Pitt needs to do what is best for Pitt and stop worrying about what a columnist like Ron Cook might write.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

Agree schools that really want to win don't throw 4 star elite 11 QB's out because of a assualt charge. Pitt did that, OK cares more about winning. Pitt has on occasion not bothered to offer kids based on past trouble, teams like WVU have had convicted felons on their team. Actually don't think, other than the whole covering up child rape for decades, PSU is as bad as places like wvu, louisville etc. Those schools basically take anyone that can write their name(they might even help them with that) and can play their sport well. There is no act so bad that if they aren't in prison that would keep the school from giving the kid a ship.

Your're kidding yourself if you think PSU isn't just as bad. Paterno controlled everything and was able to sweep most under the rug. remember that admin type that crossed him complaining about lack of discipline? Her career was short. They had a player (bell?) late in the Paterno tenure that pulled a knife on another player in the cafeteria. In the old days that story wouldn't have made it out of center county and the punishment would have been cleaning the stadium after a woman's soccer match.

 

[TD_6082]

There wasn't a cover up at Vandy. Campus staffers noticed suspicious activity on surveillance cameras. Athletic Department officials got involved by bringing in athletes for questioning and the alerted the police. None of the perps played another down and they were all handed over to the justice system without any more victims.

Its hard to ask for a much better outcome, or handle it any better.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

There wasn't a cover up at Vandy. Campus staffers noticed suspicious activity on surveillance cameras. Athletic Department officials got involved by bringing in athletes for questioning and the alerted the police. None of the perps played another down and they were all handed over to the justice system without any more victims.

Its hard to ask for a much better outcome, or handle it any better.

"at the time". OKAY? At the time there was an investigation and Franklin wasn't fully cleared. Stop being so damn sensitive n this. You live in Nashville. YAY we get it. You live in Nashville. YAY we get it. You live in Nashville. YAY we get it. You live in Nashville. YAY we get it. You live in Nashville. YAY we get it. You live in Nashville. YAY we get it. You live in Nashville. YAY we get it. You live in Nashville. YAY we get it. You live in Nashville. YAY we get it. You live in Nashville. YAY we get it. You live in Nashville. YAY we get it. You live in Nashville. YAY we get it.

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

"Recruitsreadtheseboards, post: 1748614, member: 2328"]My point is, aside from taking an obvious gratuitous shot at PSU's ludicrous "succes with honor" crap......is that PSU paid their penance and fought their sanctions and did not self impose their own punishments on the program and did everything they can to try and quickly rebound and build a good team.
Yeah, I know your point and complimented on it. I have been saying that for years not just today.

Just like USC, Bama, Miami, FSU, OU, Ohio State all overcame Scandals and Sanctions and are still Power House CFB programs today. In fact, when Sanctions were announced on USC & later on Penn State I said, they would still have Winning Seasons. So, thank you for complimenting my own vision and judgements on them.

They didn't wallow and cower and recoil in embarrassment, no matter what others thought.
I said that many times too and they Thank their trustees that finally took action in 2011, brought in Louis Freeh, President Erickson, AD Joyner, First Director of Penn state Ethics Becker, Athletic Integrity Officer Del Giorno and found hired and approved of James Franklin that Wins under the Laws, rules 7 regulations unlike the previous Penn State Football Program Era? Welcome to that realization and again a salute for you to see it too.

I think Pitt over the years way overreacts to some stuffy donors who don't like sports and also the local media, alot of who who don't like Pitt. Pitt needs to do what is best for Pitt and stop worrying about what a columnist like Ron Cook might write.
Agree, but you need quit worrying about that too and telling all the Posters to stop worrying about it too, and accept that some Penn State Cult's Dolts and West Virginia Fans still Hate Pitt Accomplishments of Autumn when they should be Thankful with Gratitude towards Pitt in helping them become Higher Educational Universities and Football Prowess they forget sometimes they are chasing.

What you seem to forget often is they come on the Lair attacking Pitt more than Thanking Pitt how they one day will be proud of their Universities, Athletics and Academics without Major Scandals.

I have been saying that for years too and better late than never you joining me. i Respect your Posts, intellect, Humor, and Insights on the Lair to share!

Perhaps some PSU Cult Dolt's and to a Few MountainBeers will learn to same like many PSU & WVU Grand Alumni Boosters that have respect for all 3 Programs and Pitt. They tell me all the rime how they are ashamed of some of their Fans but they always say many of them did not graduate from WVU or PSU too.

I am and always have been a Fan of Pitt, WVU, and Penn State Universities, Sports, and Academics plus Temple too! These Schools dominated in the 1910-1940s, 1970-90s, as Eastern Independents. I am proud of all of them now in the Big Ten, ACC, Big-12 and AAC and all 4 are returning to Winning in and near the Top 25 again together.

It is fun to watch all 4 of them just like this years when all 4 set records, they are better when playing and challenging each other to be better together too!

We are agreeing not disagreeing.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

I guess, if you call 2 or 3 Rose Bowls in 27 yrs with a budget bigger than Pitt and Temple combined getting it.

 

[CorsosRevenge]

There wasn't a cover up at Vandy. Campus staffers noticed suspicious activity on surveillance cameras. Athletic Department officials got involved by bringing in athletes for questioning and the alerted the police. None of the perps played another down and they were all handed over to the justice system without any more victims.

Its hard to ask for a much better outcome, or handle it any better.

http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...ted-alleged-rape-victim-vanderbilt-commodores

 

[TD_6082]

http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...ted-alleged-rape-victim-vanderbilt-commodores

Really? You're going to try to refute my post with a defense filing from a convicted rapist?!

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

Really? You're going to try to refute my post with a defense filing from a convicted rapist?!

so Franklin trying to contact a victim is okay in your book?

 

[TD_6082]

so Franklin trying to contact a victim is okay in your book?

Absolutely. She stated that Franklin only contacted her to let her know they cared about her well being and to thank her for all she did for the program. He didn't discuss the case with her. He would have been a cold hearted asshole not to contact her and support her.

She wasn't even aware she had been raped and tossed around at this point in time. She was still dating the ring leader. She was almost totally clueless about what happened to her.

 

[TheNoise88]

Penn State should have gotten the Death Penalty. It's true that "everyone cheats" and the NCAA actually encourages it (through lack of meaningful enforcement).

But Child rape... any rape for that matter ...is a different echelon of scandal vs. free tattoos, prostitutes, fake classes or even a free house for parents.

For what Penn state did, a line needed drawn. If only to firmly emphasize to others to never, ever condone crimes like that elsewhere like PSU did. The sport could have absorbed it. Pitt, and all other NCAA schools, should have demanded it.

That all said, I share the frustration on the massive positives that Pitt (the university) loses out on politically as well as financially with its short sighted (if not outright passive aggressive) attitude toward winning sports. But it doesn't seem that will ever change.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

So you are sure franky wasn't contacting her to feel her out about what happened? Does he call all female raped students to show his support and care?

Absolutely. She stated that Franklin only contacted her to let her know they cared about her well being and to thank her for all she did for the program. He didn't discuss the case with her. He would have been a cold hearted asshole not to contact her and support her.

She wasn't even aware she had been raped and tossed around at this point in time. She was still dating the ring leader. She was almost totally clueless about what happened to her.

 

[TD_6082]

So you are sure franky wasn't contacting her to feel her out about what happened? Does he call all female raped students to show his support and care?

Not according to police, Franklin, or the victim.

Probably only females who contributed to the program, that he already has an established relationship with, and that date a player. What do you think?

 

[9nationalchampionships]

Didn't he say he only hires an assistant coach after he checks out their wife to see if she is hot or not?

Not according to police, Franklin, or the victim.

Probably only females who contributed to the program, that he already has an established relationship with, and that date a player. What do you think?

 

[HailToPitt1985]

Pitt needs to do what is best for Pitt. That statement can be interpreted many ways. My interpretation is that Pitt needs to hold to its mission of educating students to help them be prepared for fine careers that contribute something to society. Sports, as much fun as it is, is only secondary to that mission. If ethics and morals need to be compromised to achieve success in sports, then you don't do it. Sports just isn't that important.

I know that's not a popular opinion on a sports message board. But it is the predominant view of the most influential Pitt supporters and contributors.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Absolutely. She stated that Franklin only contacted her to let her know they cared about her well being and to thank her for all she did for the program. He didn't discuss the case with her. He would have been a cold hearted asshole not to contact her and support her.

She wasn't even aware she had been raped and tossed around at this point in time. She was still dating the ring leader. She was almost totally clueless about what happened to her.

Please stop corrupting my thread with this Franklin stuff. It was not a real point of my post. And you just cannot let it go. Please do not post in this thread. You are hijacking this thread with this irrelevant crap.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Penn State should have gotten the Death Penalty. It's true that "everyone cheats" and the NCAA actually encourages it (through lack of meaningful enforcement).

But Child rape... any rape for that matter ...is a different echelon of scandal vs. free tattoos, prostitutes, fake classes or even a free house for parents.

For what Penn state did, a line needed drawn. If only to firmly emphasize to others to never, ever condone crimes like that elsewhere like PSU did. The sport could have absorbed it. Pitt, and all other NCAA schools, should have demanded it.

That all said, I share the frustration on the massive positives that Pitt (the university) loses out on politically as well as financially with its short sighted (if not outright passive aggressive) attitude toward winning sports. But it doesn't seem that will ever change.

Agree. Especially with how the community reacted then, and still reacts now. The Culture Of Football rules decisively there. My point is that Pitt needs to stop worrying about every real or perceived PR issue and do what is best for its football program. Just like Penn State does. Just like others do.

 

[TD_6082]

Didn't he say he only hires an assistant coach after he checks out their wife to see if she is hot or not?

He wasn't serious when he said it and its not original. He ripped that line

Please stop corrupting my thread with this Franklin stuff. It was not a real point of my post. And you just cannot let it go. Please do not post in this thread. You are hijacking this thread with this irrelevant crap.

Its not irrelevant. You are using an example of a rape case at VANDERBILT that was not covered up as an example that PSU is all in. Piss poor example. Your example was irrelevant.

Your point is valid though. PSU knows how to win and they give their coaches a chance to succeed. We do not.

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

Absolutely. She stated that Franklin only contacted her to let her know they cared about her well being and to thank her for all she did for the program. He didn't discuss the case with her. He would have been a cold hearted asshole not to contact her and support her.

She wasn't even aware she had been raped and tossed around at this point in time. She was still dating the ring leader. She was almost totally clueless about what happened to her.

Did he not ask to set a Female Host Recruiting Team as well, and when told violation of NCAA Rules told here everyone does it? Can you confirm or Link a Denial to it? i thought they came out in Depositions? Would like to know for sure!

I don't think they do that at Penn State.

 

[TD_6082]

Yes. I believe he did. He's right about that too.

I think Colorado ruined that for everybody.

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

Please stop corrupting my thread with this Franklin stuff. It was not a real point of my post. And you just cannot let it go. Please do not post in this thread. You are hijacking this thread with this irrelevant crap.

I agree, and it is irrelevant since Penn state since 2012 even before Franklin had put in Compliance Reforms and put in a Model for many to follow. Also, Franklin followed it by suspending Players before the Bowl Game and he needed those 2 Players.

The Clery Report fines cited Paterno did not do that and often refused to comply with University Procedures nor the University.
LINK:
In its report, the department also “identified numerous instances where cultural and climate factors in the football program adversely affected campus safety operations, primarily involving the student conduct process.” University officials told the department’s investigators that there was “a discernible sense among some athletes that the rules did not apply to them equally,” and that Paterno “repeatedly resisted attempts” to discipline his athletes through the typical student conduct process.

The department described the program as though it had “walls built up around” it.
“What ensued was an overlong and dysfunctional standoff between the football program and student affairs officials with the president positioned somewhere between the two sides,” the department stated. “Some members of the football team, aware of the conflicts, took the program’s attitude toward the student conduct process as license to break the rules.” The department said its investigation "showed that some victims were afraid to come forward if the assailant was a Penn State athlete," and that some who did come forward "were subjected to threats or other pleas" to drop the charges. "In both cases," the department stated, "the validity of Penn State’s crime statistics, a key component of the disclosures required by the Clery Act, were adversely affected." In addition, the report said football administrators kept a list of prominent local lawyers to provide to football players -- but not to other students -- who were facing disciplinary actions.

In 2002, a Penn State football player was accused of sexual assault and was suspended for two semesters. Unbeknownst to the student conduct officials who suspended the student, the player was still allowed to travel with the team and play in the Capital One Bowl that year. In numerous other cases, “athletic department and football program officials questioned the nature or severity of sanctions imposed for various offenses.”

In 2007, a group of football players allegedly broke into an apartment to confront a man who had reportedly disrespected a teammate. Paterno, through his personal assistant, sent an email to the president and athletic director, saying, “I want to make sure everyone understands that the discipline of the players involved will be handled by me as soon as I am comfortable that I understand all the facts.” Later, when one of the players failed to appear for a meeting about the incident with a student conduct official, the athlete said that Paterno had told his players that if they visited the student conduct office, they would be “thrown off the team.”

In 2009, another football player was accused of sexual assault. When he reported to the student conduct office to discuss the incident, according to the department report, his first question was, “Does football know I’m here?”

Failing to Retain Records
The department’s investigation also revealed that, from 2008 to 2011, Penn State “did not have sufficient staff to ensure compliance with the Clery Act,” and so it largely ignored its Clery-related responsibilities. The university did not retain records related to campus crime statistics from 2008, 2009 and 2010, though the Clery Act requires colleges to retain records for at least three years. And from 1998 to 2008, it did not develop, publish or distribute a comprehensive drug and alcohol prevention program, as required by the Drug-Free Schools and Communities Act. The university also failed to maintain an accurate and complete daily crime log, to publish and distribute annual security reports, and to issue timely warnings when crimes occurred on campus.

From 2008 to 2011, Penn State failed to “properly classify” reported crimes for Clery Act purposes and did not properly compile and disclose many of those crimes, the department said. In 2008, the university failed to disclose 101 crimes that occurred on campus, including a forcible sex offense, four aggravated assaults, a robbery, two burglaries, a motor vehicle theft and 92 liquor, drug abuse and weapons violations. This continued through 2011, with the university failing to disclose a total of 230 other campus crimes, including four forcible sexual assaults, seven aggravated assaults, seven burglaries, two motor vehicle thefts, one case of arson and 209 drug abuse and liquor violations.

Compiling and disclosing such crime statistics is the core requirement of the Clery Act. More than $2.1 million of the nearly $2.4 million fine stems from this violation.
LINK:
https://www.insidehighered.com/news...-sanction-against-penn-state-clery-violations

This has all been corrected by many Policies set up by the Freeh Recommendations and why the Sanctions were reduced by 2 years and Franklin has worked under them. Penn state deserves praise in my view, but others can disagree.



.

 

[paulbl99]

Pitt seems embarrassed with any athletic success.

Right there it is.

Follow it forever from Jock (maybe before) to Jonhnny Mike to Johnny Majors thru Jackie from which ...truth be told Pitt has yet to recover.

Pitt Athletics has an Institutional Memory and it is.....Stupidity.
The Eggheads have time and time again imposed themselves , tried to run things and run them into the ground ...and not just talking about making sure aState College like episode never happened, but well beyond that...

We might be at a point where we should be happy with it. We're pretty good mostly , in a great great conference and ...you get entertained for your buck so live with it.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Jesus Christ.

Pitt seems embarrassed with any athletic success.

Right there it is.

Follow it forever from Jock (maybe before) to Jonhnny Mike to Johnny Majors thru Jackie from which ...truth be told Pitt has yet to recover.

Pitt Athletics has an Institutional Memory and it is.....Stupidity.
The Eggheads have time and time again imposed themselves , tried to run things and run them into the ground ...and not just talking about making sure aState College like episode never happened, but well beyond that...

We might be at a point where we should be happy with it. We're pretty good mostly , in a great great conference and ...you get entertained for your buck so live with it.

That is another underlying point of my post. You can be successful in sports and be a great school. There is no shame. USC is no less of a school with the Reggie Bush scandal. Michigan is no less of a school with the Fab 5 stuff. PSU, well that is different. ND is no less of a school with dickhead Brian Kelly at charge. The ultimate is UNC, with all of their crap, they haven't even been punished, but I am guessing no UNC grad is being denied a job because of what is going on with their athletic programs?

Pitt seems to be the one school that cannot separate that the two are mutually exclusive in many respects and if anything, athletic success HELPS academic success with student recruitment and pride and donations, while it doesn't harm academic reputation. I am sure most of you would be proud as hell to have a kid go to Georgetown and graduate from that fine school. Anyone remember the Ewing/Williams days will understand that athletics can be separate from academics.

 

[Pitt79]

...Anytime Pitt sports has gotten up to a national level with swagger, it recoils ...Winning which hopefully leads to profit. But it is not a referendum on morality.

Congrats Penn State. You are. You are Ohio State. You are Alabama. You are USC. You are Florida State. You are Oklahoma. You want success, the honor part is negotiable. Unfortunately for us Pitt sports fans, the honor part hasn't been negotiable. At least long enough for the programs to ever sprout deep roots.

This is how I've always felt, at least since around 1984. Pitt itself, and it's fans always seemed to be more excited about being MORAL rather than winning! Always making statements about THE ACTUAL WINNERS, like "at least we don't cheat like them", while we're watching on TV as they accept the trophy, laugh all the way to the bank and never get punished... and even if they are punished, 2-3 years later, they are back at the podium, laughing at Pitt, while Pitt acts like they have a "higher calling", but sadly NOBODY CARES.

 

[Pitt79]

There is no act so bad that if they aren't in prison that would keep the school from giving the kid a ship.

That's my standard, and I'll teach them how to spell their name, and I don't care what happens to them after they're gone.

 

[Pitt79]

Pitt needs to do what is best for Pitt. That statement can be interpreted many ways. My interpretation is that Pitt needs to hold to its mission of educating students to help them be prepared for fine careers that contribute something to society. Sports, as much fun as it is, is only secondary to that mission. If ethics and morals need to be compromised to achieve success in sports, then you don't do it. Sports just isn't that important.

I know that's not a popular opinion on a sports message board. But it is the predominant view of the most influential Pitt supporters and contributors.

Then join the Ivy League or D-IAA, it will be more fun, we'd have a shot at the title.

 

[TheNoise88]

Jesus Christ.


That is another underlying point of my post. You can be successful in sports and be a great school. There is no shame. USC is no less of a school with the Reggie Bush scandal. Michigan is no less of a school with the Fab 5 stuff. PSU, well that is different. ND is no less of a school with dickhead Brian Kelly at charge. The ultimate is UNC, with all of their crap, they haven't even been punished, but I am guessing no UNC grad is being denied a job because of what is going on with their athletic programs?

Pitt seems to be the one school that cannot separate that the two are mutually exclusive in many respects and if anything, athletic success HELPS academic success with student recruitment and pride and donations, while it doesn't harm academic reputation. I am sure most of you would be proud as hell to have a kid go to Georgetown and graduate from that fine school. Anyone remember the Ewing/Williams days will understand that athletics can be separate from academics.

Thank you, that is the proper perspective. But it's even more frustrating in Pitt's case because Pitt gets so little support in the region despite being such a major contributor to the regional economy, research, medicine and education (not to mention nationally). This holds Pitt seriously back; obstacles and hostility abound. Because WPA is so sports-mad, it's clear that excellence in sports would reverse that.

Look at all that is handed over basically free to the Steelers and Penguins. This is NOT because local (progressive / borderline socialist) pols or media love these particular millionaires / billionaires who own these teams; It's because they are immensely popular with the voting public. Because they win a lot. Pols and media are desperate to curry their favor.

Winning would not only pay Pitt back exponentially on the balance sheet: ticket prices, donations, it would remove major shackles to facilitate growth, expansion, improvements -- to all its students and employees (and the work they do).

Is that "wrong" to do, ethically? Exploiting WPA's over-emphasis on sports for institutional gain? Pitt either thinks so, or its leaders have consistently been naive and foolish. I'd hope it's the latter. But if it is, I wonder why they bother to keep Pitt involved in this dirty business at all then? What good is being just a little pregnant?

Btw, great win by the hoops team last night. A must win really. I definitely did not see Pitt or anyone scoring so much on Virginia. But more impressive was the rebounding differential. Everyone has focused on our degraded defense but Pitt definitely had also lost its way getting after it on the boards as well in recent years. Jeter and Johnson showed tenacity we haven't seen in awhile. Please keep it going!

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

This is how I've always felt, at least since around 1984. Pitt itself, and it's fans always seemed to be more excited about being MORAL rather than winning! Always making statements about THE ACTUAL WINNERS, like "at least we don't cheat like them", while we're watching on TV as they accept the trophy, laugh all the way to the bank and never get punished... and even if they are punished, 2-3 years later, they are back at the podium, laughing at Pitt, while Pitt acts like they have a "higher calling", but sadly NOBODY CARES.

People here are disingenuous. On one hand, I see the same people lauding the days of Dorsett, Green, May, Fralic, Marino, etc..and those seasons, yet at the same time say "they would rather be 8-4 and a 'clean' program than a top 10 program who 'cheats'" Well folks, we were not entirely clean back in those days. And those who graduated during that time, I am sure you had alot of fun watching and going to games, and never cared about how we were getting all of these great players.

 

[Delpanther]

There's a whole lot of room on the continuum between being a program which blatantly cheats and one that operates in strict adherence to the literal terms of every NCAA rule. Pitt should, like most successful programs, operate somewhere in the middle understanding that the nature of the NCAA is such that there will be some compliance issues from time to time which shouldn't demand a radical change in course. I think the chancellor is key in terms of the university and it's trustees adopting a reasonable posture on tolerance of compliance risk. I don't think the last chancellor or his predecessors established the right culture for athletic success.

 

[BigNittanyLion]

How am I going to put this without bringing out the dramatics of the sins of Penn State past? I am not absolving them of what happened up there. Paterno can rot in hell. Sandusky, Spanier, Schultz, Curley can soon join them. The PSU fans were and have been generally despicable in their actions and attitude. But.....college football is a big business, and it is seriously important to them.

Again, I am not advocating the actions before and during all of the scandal. All of the JoePa statue stuff, the restoring of wins, etc... I am not talking about that. I am talking how they have come out of it with purpose and focus. Admirable might now be right word, but their singular focus on restoring their "ROAR" is impressive. Sure, some PSU fans were so repulsed and revolted that they went away...forever. But they weren't as many as we thought, and this season brought many of them back. I will get to my point in a few. They didn't run and hide and cower in a corner. They were bold. They hired Mark Barron, the former FSU President who presided over Jameis Winston's sexual assualt allegations not to mention many other stuff surrounding FSU's football program. They went out and hired, and paid a huge sum of money, to the only coach at that moment who was presiding over a sexual assault allegation and possible cover up. This after...well you know.

Contrast that with Pitt. Have tremendous success in football, completely with colorful characters, big personality at coach, big wins, etc...how does Pitt react? lose the football coach. Hire a recruiting phenomenon who was assembling a program with NFL talent like Jackie did, albeit maybe with some questionable ways, fire the coach. Lose an entire basketball recruiting class in the early 90's to Prop 48? How does Pitt react? Basically try to kill major college sports at Pitt. Finally gain some swagger back to the football program, yet have alot of minor off field incidents that prompts the SI to headline them in an article? Fire the coach and hire a "disciplinarian". Who lasted 3 weeks before he decided to dole out some discipline to his Baby Mama. Then go out and hire the guy the AD has been thirsting for because he was High Octane, unfortunately who was low character.

Pitt seems embarrassed with any athletic success. If you have read any history with Pitt, you will see this was true back in the Jock Sutherland days. Anytime Pitt sports has gotten up to a national level with swagger, it recoils. The fact is, you cannot have truly BIG TIME athletics without some of the garbage that comes with it. Especially nowadays. Penn State, singular in purpose, has not let the biggest scandal stand in the way of their goal, football. Perhaps now what has changed is the outside world now realizes the "success with honor" crap was just that, crap and lies, and they never can pull the wool over the public again in that isolated school. But? In a college sports world controlled by ESPN, we just saw PSU celebrated with the only mention of the scandal to references of "recovering" and the admittance that none of the players or coaches were there then.

We just saw one of the more famous talking heads admonish people for criticizing Joe Mixon of Oklahoma, and telling people he is basically a good dude. You have the mouth in basketball, Dickie V, who gives truly spectacular and impassioned speeches to kids about drugs and violence and stuff, yet continually celebrates Rick Pitino or John Calipari. Penn State gets it. Pitt doesn't. Big time college sports is about winning. Winning which hopefully leads to profit. But it is not a referendum on morality.

Congrats Penn State. You are. You are Ohio State. You are Alabama. You are USC. You are Florida State. You are Oklahoma. You want success, the honor part is negotiable. Unfortunately for us Pitt sports fans, the honor part hasn't been negotiable. At least long enough for the programs to ever sprout deep roots.

WOW. What a load of excrement I must say. I am not sure what Pitt's issues are over the yeas aside from poor fan support, but to think Penn State wants to win at football anyway possible and not care how it achieves success is just wrong. Cite specific examples please?

 

[pittguy81]

WOW. What a load of excrement I must say. I am not sure what Pitt's issues are over the yeas aside from poor fan support, but to think Penn State wants to win at football anyway possible and not care how it achieves success is just wrong. Cite specific examples please?

Look I understand you guys swallowed the whole "PSU is different", "Success with Honor" bullshit. It's nothing but marketing. PSU boosters do what other big program boosters do. Revenue sports athletes get preferential treatment in less than rigorous academic majors. They have work done for them by proxies and tutors. My daughter was a scholarship athlete for PSU, so I have her first hand word on it.

You dopes are insufferable.

 

[macdad25]

Sidney, you are an oasis of objectivity and sanity on this board. I applaud you. This post will beg the question 'don't you have anything better to to nitter?'....but there is great PSU content on this board. The POV of Sidney is very interesting, and the take from the foaming at the mouth haters is fun to read too.

 

[TheNoise88]

I think that is what separates penn staters from all others. All "cheat", in manners irrefutably noted. And the NCAA is more than fine with it, given laughable "discipline", even of astonishingly heinous offenses (of which PSU has the absolute worst). PSU should be grateful that fellow schools didn't demand it's ouster like they should have, yet they not only lack humility, they astonishingly go the opposite direction, as this poster above demonstrates (and he is definitely indicative of most of them, in my experience) .

Obviously it worked for them to cower the hapless NCAA. They were completely let off the hook, even though the truth continues to be exposed and school officials still are pending legal prosecution (due to their own maneuvers, but still). That only adds to the disgust. But frankly the member schools deserve equal shame for their condoning these offenses

 

[TD_istheman]

How am I going to put this without bringing out the dramatics of the sins of Penn State past? I am not absolving them of what happened up there. Paterno can rot in hell. Sandusky, Spanier, Schultz, Curley can soon join them. The PSU fans were and have been generally despicable in their actions and attitude. But.....college football is a big business, and it is seriously important to them.

Again, I am not advocating the actions before and during all of the scandal. All of the JoePa statue stuff, the restoring of wins, etc... I am not talking about that. I am talking how they have come out of it with purpose and focus. Admirable might now be right word, but their singular focus on restoring their "ROAR" is impressive. Sure, some PSU fans were so repulsed and revolted that they went away...forever. But they weren't as many as we thought, and this season brought many of them back. I will get to my point in a few. They didn't run and hide and cower in a corner. They were bold. They hired Mark Barron, the former FSU President who presided over Jameis Winston's sexual assualt allegations not to mention many other stuff surrounding FSU's football program. They went out and hired, and paid a huge sum of money, to the only coach at that moment who was presiding over a sexual assault allegation and possible cover up. This after...well you know.

Contrast that with Pitt. Have tremendous success in football, completely with colorful characters, big personality at coach, big wins, etc...how does Pitt react? lose the football coach. Hire a recruiting phenomenon who was assembling a program with NFL talent like Jackie did, albeit maybe with some questionable ways, fire the coach. Lose an entire basketball recruiting class in the early 90's to Prop 48? How does Pitt react? Basically try to kill major college sports at Pitt. Finally gain some swagger back to the football program, yet have alot of minor off field incidents that prompts the SI to headline them in an article? Fire the coach and hire a "disciplinarian". Who lasted 3 weeks before he decided to dole out some discipline to his Baby Mama. Then go out and hire the guy the AD has been thirsting for because he was High Octane, unfortunately who was low character.

Pitt seems embarrassed with any athletic success. If you have read any history with Pitt, you will see this was true back in the Jock Sutherland days. Anytime Pitt sports has gotten up to a national level with swagger, it recoils. The fact is, you cannot have truly BIG TIME athletics without some of the garbage that comes with it. Especially nowadays. Penn State, singular in purpose, has not let the biggest scandal stand in the way of their goal, football. Perhaps now what has changed is the outside world now realizes the "success with honor" crap was just that, crap and lies, and they never can pull the wool over the public again in that isolated school. But? In a college sports world controlled by ESPN, we just saw PSU celebrated with the only mention of the scandal to references of "recovering" and the admittance that none of the players or coaches were there then.

We just saw one of the more famous talking heads admonish people for criticizing Joe Mixon of Oklahoma, and telling people he is basically a good dude. You have the mouth in basketball, Dickie V, who gives truly spectacular and impassioned speeches to kids about drugs and violence and stuff, yet continually celebrates Rick Pitino or John Calipari. Penn State gets it. Pitt doesn't. Big time college sports is about winning. Winning which hopefully leads to profit. But it is not a referendum on morality.

Congrats Penn State. You are. You are Ohio State. You are Alabama. You are USC. You are Florida State. You are Oklahoma. You want success, the honor part is negotiable. Unfortunately for us Pitt sports fans, the honor part hasn't been negotiable. At least long enough for the programs to ever sprout deep roots.

One of his babies momma's, he had a few while married, Nordy and Pedey didn't get big time football , not in the least