No what I am saying is Pitt still has some terrific talent on offense. Yes unknowns in Browne and Clark. But they can be very good or not this season. My guess is Browne will be capable and is a mature and has something to prove. But the major difference is Pitt will have far more athleticism on defense and Narduzzi will build with that. PSU was average on defense but clearly they had issues vs very good offenses. And that defense for the most part is back. Even a OK defense for Pitt is still a big improvement over last year. PSU will be favored as they should be. But to suggest the narrative is PSU is close to three TD's better is folly.
Penn State opens -19 vs Pitt
- Thread starter BFo8
- Start date
I haven't seen anyone predicting PSU winning by 19 points. I only see a book make that is trying to even out the bets. Many more PSU fans so the spread should remain high but anyone predicting a 19 pt win at this point is just guessing.
Yes they're certainly unknowns, and Clark is one of those kind of guys (Hendrix another) that you just have that kind of nauseous feeling about that SOMETHING bizarre is bound to go wrong and keep them off the field (in the grand tradition of guys like Dustin Picciotti, Prince Brockenbrough, Dan Mason, Jovonny Ward etc ... But the key in your post is that we have guys with the POTENTIAL to be really significant players. If they are healthy and have good August camps, they might just be formidable. Its not like we're in 1998 when even at our very best, we were trudging out there with guys like Matt Lytle and Kirk McMullin. So if they are busts, or get injured, wrongly arrested for airline fraud, drop foot, or one of the other dozens of freakish things that sideline our best players, we're likely screwed. But if these guys come close to living up, good things can happen.
It is not chopped Liver either, VT, UNC, Miami, GT, and Pitt have played well even in losses and Beaten some good Teams in SEC and B1G as well. One can say that about other Conference Divisions Big Ten East versus Big Ten West, PAC-12 North versus South, and SEC West versus East as well?
Well said. Last years Penn State team will more than likely be the least talented we face in our series, that doesn't mean they will be better. What concerns me this year:
Last year, we had a veteran Oline going against a young Dline. Roles are reversed this year
Last year, we had a stud oline. We have questions this year. O'Neil? Bookser? Loss of left side of the line
Last year, we had the experienced qb. Roles reversed
Their D was young last year and had 2 key injuries. This year they are experienced. We replace our LB's and DT's with inexperience
They return 9 of 11 starters this year on offense, one of which was a liability for the most part on a offense that put points up in bunches towards the end of the year on a top 10 team in the second year of a new offense
We replaced our O coordinator
No one is saying we cannot win but a double digit spread is logical when you consider everything. The game will be tough to win
No. But PSU played us, tOSU, Michigan, Wisconsin, USC last year. Michigan State was down. Northwestern beat us. My point is, we (Pitt fans) shouldn't be making fun of their schedule.
"H2Pittisit, post: 1909590, member: 5284"]Well said. Last years Penn State team will more than likely be the least talented we face in our series, that doesn't mean they will be better. What concerns me this year:
Last year, we had a veteran Oline going against a young Dline. Roles are reversed this year
Last year, we had a stud oline. We have questions this year. O'Neil? Bookser? Loss of left side of the line
Last year, we had the experienced qb. Roles reversed
Most know it and as I see it as well.
Their D was young last year and had 2 key injuries. This year they are experienced. We replace our LB's and DT's with inexperience
I have posted that exactly and Pitt Younger DBs will be up against some PSU younger WRs out too, mixed in with some mighty fine experienced talent like Whitehead-Maddox versus Hamilton-Blacknail as well. Add in Henderson-Weah against 3 Experienced PSU DBs and we have a tough match up anyway wants to look at it to be fair, and won't know until Game Day Executions, but right now even harder to judge until we see Final August Depth Charts?
They return 9 of 11 starters this year on offense, one of which was a liability for the most part on a offense that put points up in bunches towards the end of the year on a top 10 team in the second year of a new offense.
Yep, and won most of those games in 2016 in Second Half being behind many times by 2 to 3 TDS, that was a remarkable comeback of PSU Players playing with NO QUIT CONFIDENCE and Moorhead wearing down the Defenses. They almost pulled it off against PITT & USC! This is a very good team and great players and deserve respect not any mocking.
We replaced our O coordinator
No kidding and prefers a more Pro-Set Approach and has to adapt a Canada-System Terminology and learn "When" to call those special plays Pitt did all last year, and that is not a given until we see it?
No one is saying we cannot win but a double digit spread is logical when you consider everything. The game will be tough to win
It is Vegas and they employ Ph.D's in Math and Statistics with setting those early and later Lines that money changes more than just predicting any games! Why I posted some other known factors to consider, and I think the propensity for Franklin to win Revenge Game is just as high as seen in MSU, Maryland, Ohio State games. Franklin is not finish he owes NWU, Michigan and Pitt too. We shall see if that propensity continues into 2017? At the same time, Coach Narduzzi has changed the attitude of Pitt Panthers Players in 2015 missing 4 close losses into wins, and his 2016 Team was even more prepared to play Top Ranked Teams coming 5 losses again. It is unknown how he will do in 2017, but they are showing up and count on it! It may be a close shoot out, run out, or big blow out!
But it is the Biggest Game Pitt and Penn State Fans are looking forward to in any case and anyone saying Nittany Lions don't consider a Rivalry or do not want to play them due to Sandusky is just self-pride penchant "Painting The Mice" claims!
This is bigger to PSU Fans than Michigan and Ohio State and if they lose it will ruin the season just like last year even at 11-3. They can say I am wrong but in their Hearts if they love CFB they know it.
Last year, we had a veteran Oline going against a young Dline. Roles are reversed this year
Last year, we had a stud oline. We have questions this year. O'Neil? Bookser? Loss of left side of the line
Last year, we had the experienced qb. Roles reversed
Most know it and as I see it as well.
Their D was young last year and had 2 key injuries. This year they are experienced. We replace our LB's and DT's with inexperience
I have posted that exactly and Pitt Younger DBs will be up against some PSU younger WRs out too, mixed in with some mighty fine experienced talent like Whitehead-Maddox versus Hamilton-Blacknail as well. Add in Henderson-Weah against 3 Experienced PSU DBs and we have a tough match up anyway wants to look at it to be fair, and won't know until Game Day Executions, but right now even harder to judge until we see Final August Depth Charts?
They return 9 of 11 starters this year on offense, one of which was a liability for the most part on a offense that put points up in bunches towards the end of the year on a top 10 team in the second year of a new offense.
Yep, and won most of those games in 2016 in Second Half being behind many times by 2 to 3 TDS, that was a remarkable comeback of PSU Players playing with NO QUIT CONFIDENCE and Moorhead wearing down the Defenses. They almost pulled it off against PITT & USC! This is a very good team and great players and deserve respect not any mocking.
We replaced our O coordinator
No kidding and prefers a more Pro-Set Approach and has to adapt a Canada-System Terminology and learn "When" to call those special plays Pitt did all last year, and that is not a given until we see it?
No one is saying we cannot win but a double digit spread is logical when you consider everything. The game will be tough to win
It is Vegas and they employ Ph.D's in Math and Statistics with setting those early and later Lines that money changes more than just predicting any games! Why I posted some other known factors to consider, and I think the propensity for Franklin to win Revenge Game is just as high as seen in MSU, Maryland, Ohio State games. Franklin is not finish he owes NWU, Michigan and Pitt too. We shall see if that propensity continues into 2017? At the same time, Coach Narduzzi has changed the attitude of Pitt Panthers Players in 2015 missing 4 close losses into wins, and his 2016 Team was even more prepared to play Top Ranked Teams coming 5 losses again. It is unknown how he will do in 2017, but they are showing up and count on it! It may be a close shoot out, run out, or big blow out!
But it is the Biggest Game Pitt and Penn State Fans are looking forward to in any case and anyone saying Nittany Lions don't consider a Rivalry or do not want to play them due to Sandusky is just self-pride penchant "Painting The Mice" claims!
This is bigger to PSU Fans than Michigan and Ohio State and if they lose it will ruin the season just like last year even at 11-3. They can say I am wrong but in their Hearts if they love CFB they know it.
All made good and differing comments, as far as I am concern.
Do not underestimate the Franklin Proven Propensity to establish his own Brand and will not fear running up the score to those that did the same to him. Dantanio learned that lesson last year, and Meyers learned how his Players choked, and Franklin can't wait to take that big stick to Harbaugh (2-0) and Fitzgerald (Beat Franklin 2 Times At Vandy & 1 PSU) and it begins with Narduzzi (1-0). If PSU can run it up, they will do it. Moorhead Offense is exactly designed to do it that way, and just go look at his Moorhead's Fordham Teams Wins Scores, and he designed it at Pitt.
On the other hand, if Narduzzi has Pitt Prepared as a Team those many "Unknowns" could turn into some "Surprises" just as Pitt Fans witness in 2015 and 2016, but Vegas is spot on to favor PSU and no shame in saying it, and if Pitt loses close or big, showing respect to Penn State is not bad thing as far as I am concern, but others will always duffer. I am just glad to see them playing again.
Until we see Browne under OC Watson System and other Pitt "Unknowns" Vegas is going with that on the line versus Pitt "Surprises"! At the same time, Franklin-Moorhead Offense will have few "Surprises" in 2017, but at the same time, should be even better and that is what Vegas knows right now.
Yet, one Bookmaker I linked says otherwise. If McSorley goes down so will PSU Season. Fitzgerald knows how to target certain Players, Pitt witness that last December when Peterman, Conner, and Johnson went down and Pitt losing by 7 with them?
Narduzzi's September Surprises?
Or
Franklin's September Retributions!
We shall see!
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As I mentioned, the typical clown-level of knowledge and arrogance by PSU fans:
https://bwi.forums.rivals.com/threa...-line-favors-psu-by-19-vs-pitt-on-9-9.175000/
"Hell, I'm on record saying PSU will beat them by 30, all things being equal. Lay the points."
"wow, only -19, I would expect -31. Vegas must want a lot of PSU money to even it out."
"I thought 19 points was too low and an insult to PSU. PSU was B10 champs, they beat OSU solidly, and was dominating by the end of the game. PSU only lost three games, with two undeniable fluke games to Pitt and USC."
"I want CJF to keep his foot on the gas ...
Even when Stevens and Zembiec are playing against Pitt and light them up for 70 against that defensive genius head coach."
https://bwi.forums.rivals.com/threa...-line-favors-psu-by-19-vs-pitt-on-9-9.175000/
"Hell, I'm on record saying PSU will beat them by 30, all things being equal. Lay the points."
"wow, only -19, I would expect -31. Vegas must want a lot of PSU money to even it out."
"I thought 19 points was too low and an insult to PSU. PSU was B10 champs, they beat OSU solidly, and was dominating by the end of the game. PSU only lost three games, with two undeniable fluke games to Pitt and USC."
"I want CJF to keep his foot on the gas ...
Even when Stevens and Zembiec are playing against Pitt and light them up for 70 against that defensive genius head coach."
Save that for "See You In September!"
Try to remember the kind of September
When Penn State Fans were a tender and callow fellows.
The fire of September that made Lions mellow.
Without a hurt the heart will hollow?
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PissU won't be the toughest opponent we play this year, that's for sure. So playing them early in the year will help us prepare for the tougher games we will be in later in the season. And since we have a distinct advantage with coaching, it should be interesting. Of course, the whole country has a distinct advantage in coaching over Franklin.
Well, PSU will be ranked high early Top Ten for sure, and OKST maybe too. But you are correct Pitt will be playing GT UNC, VT, and Miami later. I still think PSU will be Ranked in the Top Ten when Pitt plays them. It is where one ends up not where they begin. I still see PSU as a very Talented Team and they earned it in 2016!
Pitt 2017 Realities & Dependencies & Priorities Determining the Season:
1. Pitt Coaching:
Clearly, Pitt has very Good Coaching as seen in 2015 and 2016 and still doing Band Aids at various positions with Talented Transfers, with Paul Chryst and Pat Narduzzi Recruiting Sleepers. Rebuilding the Program is happening and Pitt can play with anybody. The Coaching is more solid than anything since 1970s-80s. No question this is the Pivotal Year for Pitt's Coach Pat & Staff and it still needs more Depth, Talent, and Recruiting and can go 6-6 or 10-2 and still keep improving for 2017& beyond.
2. New OC & QB:
It comes down to Watson & Browne first and foremost, without an OC & QB as good as Canada and Peterman Pitt won't have 40+ points like last year? It does not need be as good as 2016 a Record Historical Year, but it needs to be Great from the start and first 4 Games and not suffer any key injuries with limited Depth.
3. Improved Defense:
The Defense has graduated some Experience Players but it has acquired more Talented Stronger and Faster Talented Players that know the System and DL Coaching will be improved from being in the 100s last year. How fast the Coaches & Players adapt to each other will contribute, impact and determine the First 4 games. They can be a big Surprise or make big Mistakes as they learn Experience that only game Playing can teach them with Coaching to continue to grow.
4. Ancillary Unknowns Can Be Negative & Positive:
Every other unknown is ancillary in regards to Offensive Line and with or without Bookser, New Tight Ends, New Place Kicker, & New Defensive DLs, LBs, and DBs, blending and coaching Defense. The Coaching on DL will be improved without a doubt but how much time it takes in the First 4 Games will play a big role?
5. Ancillary New Talented Recruits Unknowns Positive Or Neutral:
Pitt will have Paris Ford, AJ Davis, TE Reeves, OL Drake and Transfers Kam Carter and Hendrix and how they may impact the Team early and often as Pitt has had in past in Fitz, Revis, McCoy, Donald, Boyd, and Whitehead in their first years and Transfers like Savage, Price, and Peterman.
6. Scheduling Impact:
The final Factor is how well Pitt Coaching and Players are prepared to get Experienced together that can go 4-0, 3-1, 2-2, or 1-3 without injuries? This YSU, PSU, OKST, GT, Rice, Cuse, and will determine the early first 6 games in the season. The last 6 Games is really dependent on how good other Opponents Coaches and Players learn to develop and play on NCS, Duke, UVA, UNC, VT and Miami and again with or without Key Injuries?
It is either 6-6 and everything in between to 12-0 depending on the Various Developmental Factors above that few can Predict in June, Need August Starters and Depth Charts and those on other Teams as the season progresses.
Chris Peak and others Pitt Fans that have Websites will report way better on it than anyone else and those on the Premium Fifth & Forbes Board
How I see it, others can differ and know better and so be it!
1. Pitt Coaching:
Clearly, Pitt has very Good Coaching as seen in 2015 and 2016 and still doing Band Aids at various positions with Talented Transfers, with Paul Chryst and Pat Narduzzi Recruiting Sleepers. Rebuilding the Program is happening and Pitt can play with anybody. The Coaching is more solid than anything since 1970s-80s. No question this is the Pivotal Year for Pitt's Coach Pat & Staff and it still needs more Depth, Talent, and Recruiting and can go 6-6 or 10-2 and still keep improving for 2017& beyond.
2. New OC & QB:
It comes down to Watson & Browne first and foremost, without an OC & QB as good as Canada and Peterman Pitt won't have 40+ points like last year? It does not need be as good as 2016 a Record Historical Year, but it needs to be Great from the start and first 4 Games and not suffer any key injuries with limited Depth.
3. Improved Defense:
The Defense has graduated some Experience Players but it has acquired more Talented Stronger and Faster Talented Players that know the System and DL Coaching will be improved from being in the 100s last year. How fast the Coaches & Players adapt to each other will contribute, impact and determine the First 4 games. They can be a big Surprise or make big Mistakes as they learn Experience that only game Playing can teach them with Coaching to continue to grow.
4. Ancillary Unknowns Can Be Negative & Positive:
Every other unknown is ancillary in regards to Offensive Line and with or without Bookser, New Tight Ends, New Place Kicker, & New Defensive DLs, LBs, and DBs, blending and coaching Defense. The Coaching on DL will be improved without a doubt but how much time it takes in the First 4 Games will play a big role?
5. Ancillary New Talented Recruits Unknowns Positive Or Neutral:
Pitt will have Paris Ford, AJ Davis, TE Reeves, OL Drake and Transfers Kam Carter and Hendrix and how they may impact the Team early and often as Pitt has had in past in Fitz, Revis, McCoy, Donald, Boyd, and Whitehead in their first years and Transfers like Savage, Price, and Peterman.
6. Scheduling Impact:
The final Factor is how well Pitt Coaching and Players are prepared to get Experienced together that can go 4-0, 3-1, 2-2, or 1-3 without injuries? This YSU, PSU, OKST, GT, Rice, Cuse, and will determine the early first 6 games in the season. The last 6 Games is really dependent on how good other Opponents Coaches and Players learn to develop and play on NCS, Duke, UVA, UNC, VT and Miami and again with or without Key Injuries?
It is either 6-6 and everything in between to 12-0 depending on the Various Developmental Factors above that few can Predict in June, Need August Starters and Depth Charts and those on other Teams as the season progresses.
Chris Peak and others Pitt Fans that have Websites will report way better on it than anyone else and those on the Premium Fifth & Forbes Board
How I see it, others can differ and know better and so be it!
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The Pitt/Penn St line is now at +17.5 according to Golden Nugget. They also have Pitt at +3.5 vs. Oklahoma St the next week.
Both lines surprise me...Penn state is too high, was expecting -13.5 range and OK St too low, expected -6.5 -7...
I envision few scenarios where we beat them, but 19 is a lot to give. I'd take the points.
I can see 3 possible scenarios:
We put pressure on their "throw it up" QB we can force some turnovers.
Q brings one to the house in a close game.
Our passing game is equal to our running game.
Winning on the road is never easy
We put pressure on their "throw it up" QB we can force some turnovers.
Q brings one to the house in a close game.
Our passing game is equal to our running game.
Winning on the road is never easy
If Brown has a very good game and is a big timer, Pitt will be a tough out. Weah, Q, bevy of RB's and still a very good OL will put points up on the nits. Here is the kicker, Narduzzi is building a defense that can surprise as the talent gains needed experience. PSU on D is still ordinary and lacks a front 7 that is capable of shut down defense. PSU have some really good young talent, but same position as Pitt. Physically gifted but young. But the key here are the matchups and I like Pitts O vs the nits.
Fans have no impact on the line. The bulk of the betting on the games comes from gamblers and not fans. Last year the opened Pitt being a 4 point favorite I believe. It not like Penn State just got all these fans this year.
Porn
Pitt opened as 9 point favorites last year........just sayin
I totally agree about our lineman not being there, but I do think Oneil is better than Johnson and Biz, or I should say will be better.
That being said, I am pretty tired of hearing about the penn state game last year, here is the depth chart from their website last year...
http://victorybellrings.com/2016/09/05/analyzing-penn-state-depth-chart-pitt-game/
They were hardly young. Just because we beat them all to hell and knocked out guys doesnt mean we didnt dominate.
I think you should give the edge to UPS for no other reason than they are playing at home. Looking at the rosters, I dont think they are a better team than Pitt. More stars?? Sure, but they had far more stars last year too.
SERIOUSLY if UPS played our schedule last year, at best they would have had our record. I think its a pick'em game and since UPS is home give them the edge.
uh??? pitt opened as 9 point favorites... and did you just say fans dont have an impact on the line??? That is how the lines move is based on bets. If vegas is intelligent of course they make this game a huge spread, get the cult to put money down, then as the game gets close and the real knowledgeable gamblers put money down the margin closes.
Here is what Penn State had on D last year
DE - 1st yr starter
DT - 1st yr starter
DT - backup 1st yr starter (1st yr starter out)
DE - 1st yr starter
LB - 1 yr starter
LB - 1st year starter (starting LB out injured)
LB - Senior
DB - Junior 3 yr starter
DB - True soph 2 yr starter
S - jr 3 yr starter
S - 1st year starter
Look at the Pitt D this year they will have same experience and offensively have lost key pieces. Think you may be looking at this with blue and gold goggles.
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A lower line would have encouraged more cult betting not 19. Vegas is sucking in the Pitt bets right now
I like Duzz, but this number is so high for a reason. Franklin recruiting very well, Duzz very, well, very average. Kids win the games, and we need to take recruiting up a notch, or we are always a 6 to 8 win team.
Duzz is a better x and o coach I believe , he just can't get traction recruiting the big timers, even the ones close to home.
Duzz is a better x and o coach I believe , he just can't get traction recruiting the big timers, even the ones close to home.
no, you missed my point. If vegas knows a certain team (like Notre Dame) has a strong following, often the early line will be larger than expected because they hope to get that money. This early, there are just 3 times more PSU grads than Pitt, if not 4x. They want the sucker bets.
Vegas wants to win money... I mean they could just make it a pick 'em game, then plenty of nit wits would bet right?
Regardless, it doesnt matter. Anyone that watched the 2 teams play last year would surely say Pitt was the better team. If they think Pitt lost that much since last year... well... maybe we did??? I dont know, but I dont think we did. I wouldnt lay down money to take Pitt winning outright. But I dont think we are 19 point dogs either.
So you are saying more Penn State fans will be on Penn State is the line is -19 rather than -7? That's insane. If you want to get more bets, you make the line lower so the fans think you are crazy and take the bet. Most Penn State fans are probably staying away from that line. Most Pitt fans are probably jumping on it
Anyone that watched the two teams play last year ranked penn State at the end of the year and not Pitt......unless you are talking just that game???
I am normally pretty laid back but the PSU fans hanging on our site is weird.
Did you just reply to yourself? We're playing each other in 2 and a half months. You beat us last year. Its a slow time of the year. It's our first significant game of the season. So we're checking in.. take it as a compliment..
If I were PItt, I'd feel disrespected. It's a big line. So Pitt will feel disrespected and PSU will want revenge. Plenty of motivation to go around. I honestly don't think much can be gathered from last year's game. PSU was a much better team down the stretch than they were in September. Pitt probably was too. This year's PItt team is much different. I feel like the shoe's on the other foot this year. Penn State is very experienced and Pitt is breaking in the new qb and quite a few other new starters on the road. Last year, Pitt should've won and they did. This year, PSU should win. We'll see if they live up to the expectation. I personally don't think it will be close and I think the line will go back up and beyond the original 19 point spread.
haha yes I am not sure how to add to a post that I already posted so I did it this way.
Pitt was without Hendrix and Conner at 60% ( based on what he said). We shall see and bet the deed to your tractor on PSU.
Pitt was without Hendrix and Conner at 60% ( based on what he said). We shall see and bet the deed to your tractor on PSU.
Not x and o's, but Jimmy and Joe's! Franklin is a clown, simpleton if you will , but he recruits very well. Those recruits will be playing the game, not us , coaches etc. I think our 49th avg recruiting ranking last few years will catch up to us in this game l, hope I'm wrong
It's a rivalry game, whether PissU fans want to admit it or not. Anything can happen and probably will. The one thing we have going for us is that we have the better coach, and that goes a long way to getting a win. We have a of question marks on both sides of the ball, but when they play those nitwits, that may be equalized.
If they happen to win the game this time, it will be the first time they've beaten Pitt in either major sport in a long, long time. I may be wrong because I don't pay much attention to a bunch of perverts in the middle of nowhere. But I really don't remember the last time PissU beat Pitt in football or basketball. I hope we keep it that way.
If they happen to win the game this time, it will be the first time they've beaten Pitt in either major sport in a long, long time. I may be wrong because I don't pay much attention to a bunch of perverts in the middle of nowhere. But I really don't remember the last time PissU beat Pitt in football or basketball. I hope we keep it that way.
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