but it looks like you are discounting the tourism dollar.. Not everyone that goes to steeler games is a Pittsburgh/Allegheny co. resident.. Hence the hotels.. a lot of out of town travelers come in for games, spend their money here, then leave..
People are wrongly using a Return on Investment thesis for a Stadium.
- Thread starter mdpitt
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Thanks but I'll stick with math over "great experiences" when it comes to making financial choices.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/a0763098.html
How many of those cities linked above don't have any pro sports teams? They are bigger than Pittsburgh.
To the OP and anyone that actually buys into this nonsense.....
1) if 2032 is the date where we have no place to play......that would mean the pete is 30 years old.
Tear down the pete ...build a multi purpose stadium with a dome.
Pitt hoops to consol during construction
Problem solved.
But.......I've got a far more profitable suggestion..........
Rather than spend 100 of millions so as SMF suggests. .....pitt students get "an experience"......
Pay narduzzi and his staff Nick Saban money......recruiting budget in line with Bama....Ohio State.....
And light cigars thinking of how many millions we saved.
1) if 2032 is the date where we have no place to play......that would mean the pete is 30 years old.
Tear down the pete ...build a multi purpose stadium with a dome.
Pitt hoops to consol during construction
Problem solved.
But.......I've got a far more profitable suggestion..........
Rather than spend 100 of millions so as SMF suggests. .....pitt students get "an experience"......
Pay narduzzi and his staff Nick Saban money......recruiting budget in line with Bama....Ohio State.....
And light cigars thinking of how many millions we saved.
My point would be though that without the steelers, and just Pnc park and Pitt at this point, those hotels and businesses do just fine.
The Pirates leaving would cause those north shore locations a huge issue. The steelers wouldn't.
I didn't want to go there but since you did, it's true. A few years ago I actually started calling out people that constantly find a way to be miserable ( you may have noticed ). This miserable guy from New Castle that sat next to me for several years would be that guy in the crowd yelling "Wanny Sucks, they should have thrown the ball, we stink" and all these things were when we were winning by two touchdowns. During halftime we are chatting and I asked him why do you even come to these games? He responded that he loved Pitt Football. He's about 60 years old at the time but it sums up what is wrong with a chunk of fans who simply find a way to hate life. I simply don't understand it. Next time you read some of the negative people here, take a look at their posts from a year ago. The common theme is negative and saying how things can't be done. They never start constructive topics because they don't put themselves out there but they are really quick to jump on anyone that has a solution. They always have the answers proving things can't be done.
I might be wrong, but you're really not one to talk about other people being negative if I remember correctly.
Half a billion for the t extension.
And it was originally supposed to go into the actual Northside neighborhood where people live and could use it to get to work. But you know... 'those people' live there so as long as the Rooney's got their welfare assistance who cares about the actual people.
Yep.
Have to love hundreds of millions of public welfare for billionaires....and advocated for by average tax payers.
$523M for the T Extension
$281M for Heinz Field
$216M For PNC Park
That's over $1 Billion (before adding on for inflation), and doesn't include the cost of the Heinz Field upgrades, the cost of free t rides to get customers over there, and the cost of whatever has been or will be built over there with taxpayer money.
Stage AE was partially tax payer funded as well.
Now think about if that money was spent on real infrastructure projects, downtown revitalization, etc....
Growth of businesses in sustainable ways to expand the tax base....what a crazy concept.
Hey, if the people are going to deficit spend, they should actually get some benefit from it, is my point.
I mean, besides some over-priced and low quality chain level food options to a couple weekends a year.
Downtown revitalization? They created a new business district with offices, hotels, and entertainment then connected it with the rest of downtown.
Tons of taxpayers take free rides on the T system to get into downtown to work everyday. Free to them, at least. The free rides are subsidized mostly by Alco Parking. Merrill Stabile is likely the happiest guy in town that they built this thing.
Tons of taxpayers take free rides on the T system to get into downtown to work everyday. Free to them, at least. The free rides are subsidized mostly by Alco Parking. Merrill Stabile is likely the happiest guy in town that they built this thing.
pitt is a non factor in the development and economic overview of the north shore..
LOL. They could have spent 2% of what it cost to build the T extension and added several parking garages Downtown equivalent to the number of daily North Shore parkers. Then taken the other 98% and paid to connect Downtown with Uptown and Oakland, where people actually work and live.
But doing that didn't benefit the Rooney's and Nuttings, just lots of regular folks trying to make their way. So nope, can't have that.
the only establishment I ever spent a dime at in the north shore was the 222 Bar.
More cars in downtown isn't the answer to anything.
And connecting downtown to Oakland is going to have same issue as football stadium... how? where?
You're either plowing straight through the Hill District (microscopic chance of that ever happening) or you're going around it, which the East Busway and the Forbes/Fifth busses already do.
The market is responding quite well to what has gone in on the North Shore, including the connector. Just as the market seems to be doing okay letting downtown be rebuilt/reimagined over the past 5 years or so.
that was a cool little place to pre game on especially cold days.. been in there plenty, good place to get yourself dizzy for under $8 bucks..
Why is Heinz field gone in 2032? What makes that year magical? There are stadiums a lot older still being used.
Please. We have two wide roads commuting through Oakland to Downtown. It should be feasible to build a rail extension under, on or over those throughways. Especially if you agree that we should reduce cars on the road in these dense locations.
Typical of Pittsburgh attitudes however, unless it benefits sports teams, then we shouldn't do it.
Unfortunately, Pittsburgh already missed the chance to do something real about the transportation issue. We're going to need even more busses and will soon pin our future hopes on self driving vehicles, while cities with better leadership and more forward thinking citizens will reap the rewards of actual transportation infrastructure they have been putting into places for decades. It's sad, really.
I can't see them shutting down Forbes and Fifth for 2+ years to dig them up, put rails in tunnels, then repave them. Those are two very important arteries into and out of town, pretty much vital in getting from Oakland to downtown or vice versa.
It's a better idea than tearing down the VA Hospital, Soldiers & Sailors, or Schenley Park for a football stadium though.
It's a better idea than tearing down the VA Hospital, Soldiers & Sailors, or Schenley Park for a football stadium though.
Heinz field will never move from the NorthShore. It might be renovated but the Rooneys and the Northshore " goldmine" partnership will be in place after all of us are room temperature!
There was an article that included the logistics of such a project.. not easy and the price tag was a billion plus.. Amazing how anything costs billions anymore..
No offense, but that's exactly the type of thinking that we don't need and have had for far too long in Pittsburgh.
Why do you people think the Steelers will move the stadium from the NorthShore.
That will never happen!
Its an economic goldmine on the NorthShore due to the Steelers and PNC Park. Proximity to the city, easy in and out when driving, on buses, and the T.To bad they didn't locate the PENS there as well it would keep the place hopping thru the winter months.
Heinz will be either renovated or torn down and replaced exactly where It is today!
Because there is always new suckers to extort , and eventually citizens wise up.
Don't forget, the first vote failed for their stadium .
I ask again why is the lease a goner?
The stadium will remain on the Northshore , it will be rebuilt, and why wouldn't the Rooney's honor or renew the PITT football stadium lease.
They were using Pitt to get the deal passed. They don't need Pitt soon enough and things will change. Stay tuned
Not sure if your info is accurate but if it is you're correct things could change.
I would think they will still want to pull PITT along at least for the positive PR.
As I said to someone else over the weekend, the only people who can believe that are, well, pretty much every economist who has ever looked at the subject. And everyone with any sort of reasoning ability who has read their work. And anyone with a lick of common sense. But other than that I can't think of anyone who doesn't think that building stadiums with tax money is a great idea. Billionaire team owners especially seem to think it's a great idea.
I won't provide some of the links like I did over the weekend, but I will give you the money quote from the first result that came up in the Google search.
There are a lot of things economists disagree about, but the economic impact of sports stadiums isn't one of them.
“If you ever had a consensus in economics, this would be it," says Michael Leeds, a sports economist at Temple University. "There is no impact."
“If you ever had a consensus in economics, this would be it," says Michael Leeds, a sports economist at Temple University. "There is no impact."
Quick question how long before head trauma issues make their impact in college or high school to a larger extent. If football survives in 20 years it will be very different and tapping from a smaller group of kids who eventually make it to college. It is only a matter of time before someone is killed playing. Simple physics mass of today's and future players times speed. What will the average lineman be in 20 years 7 feet 420 pounds and linebackers who weigh 280 and run 4.5 40's. The game will have to change or be gone, attorneys will see to that.
Pitt and CMU, not the Steelers, are what keep the city from becoming Erie.
I let that go last night but geez, you posted it again. Really?
It's a narrative these guys are clinging to in the hopes that their fantasy will come true.
Stadiums are money losers, but not for the reason youre stating. They bring people to the city who'd never otherwise go to the city. All those people driving in for Steeler games wouldn't otherwise be in Pittsburgh. Where stadiums cost cities money is when it comes to the physical space they take up, the actual price the cities themselves pay for the stadiums, and the taxes lost.
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The large majority of the people that go to Stiller games are people from Pittsburgh or the surrounding areas.
We're talking about commerce IN the City of Pittsburgh here. Not the burbs, not WV, not Cambria County.
You and your clone can act like the money showing up on gameday is money that would just be spend elsewhere in the city all you want, but you're wrong.
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