Pirates: Ironic Statement

[Dan1911]

"

Pirates suffer a starting pitching blow with JT Brubaker likely headed to IL, lose to Twins​

From the Trib: "The 29-year-old Brubaker, who is 9-28 with a 4.99 ERA and 1.38 WHIP in 61 starts over three major league seasons, appeared poised for a breakthrough year."
Losing a pitcher that went 9-28 with a 5 ERA is a "blow" to the pitching staff. Wow. Just wow.

 

[pierre93]

Which is sad smh

 

[Pitt2009]

Sadly Brubaker was last year’s opening day starter. This year’s opening day starter (Mitch Keller) has a career 12-29 record.

 

[PANTHERAN]

"

Pirates suffer a starting pitching blow with JT Brubaker likely headed to IL, lose to Twins​

From the Trib: "The 29-year-old Brubaker, who is 9-28 with a 4.99 ERA and 1.38 WHIP in 61 starts over three major league seasons, appeared poised for a breakthrough year."
Losing a pitcher that went 9-28 with a 5 ERA is a "blow" to the pitching staff. Wow. Just wow.

Just shows you how low the bar is for them buccos in contrast to winning orgs like the Steelers and Penguins.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

Anytime a guy can’t play and they still have to pay him, it’s a mortal blow to the Pirates

 

[CaptainMurphy]

This years starting lineup is better than last year. It’s not all about pitcher wins and losses on a bad team. Brubaker was better down the stretch last year and was showing signs of continuing that improvement this season. He’s a decent back end of the rotation guy on many mlb teams.

That being said, interested to see what Oviedo can do in his absence.

 

[lilspainishflea]

Just shows you how low the bar is for them buccos in contrast to winning orgs like the Steelers and Penguins.

The Pirates might be the worst franchise in major American sports. They're closer to a Ponzi scheme than they are to a competitive franchise.

Bob Nutting is worse than one of the Seven Plagues in the Bible because at least those ended. He is a permanent blight upon WPA.

 

[PANTHERAN]

The Pirates might be the worst franchise in major American sports. They're closer to a Ponzi scheme than they are to a competitive franchise.

Bob Nutting is worse than one of the Seven Plagues in the Bible because at least those ended. He is a permanent blight upon WPA.

If I could like this post 1000 times, I would.

 

[PANTHERAN]

If I could like this post 1000 times, I would.

He has also stated that he will not sell the team because he wants to have his daughter inherit it from him. Our only hope is that this daughter marries/is married to a true Pirates fan.

 

[lilspainishflea]

He has also stated that he will not sell the team because he wants to have his daughter inherit it from him. Our only hope is that this daughter marries/is married to a true Pirates fan.

Yeah you have to hope the whole family goes down on the same plane at this point.

Baseball is pretty much dead to me. My son will probably grow up as a Phillies or Braves fan, if he even watches.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Sadly Brubaker was last year’s opening day starter. This year’s opening day starter (Mitch Keller) has a career 12-29 record.

A bit of a difference between the two, wouldn't you say?

 

[pittdan77]

Cutch will save the season.

 

[Pitt2009]

A bit of a difference between the two, wouldn't you say?

Not quite certain what you’re saying. Explain further?

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

The Pirates might be the worst franchise in major American sports. They're closer to a Ponzi scheme than they are to a competitive franchise.

Bob Nutting is worse than one of the Seven Plagues in the Bible because at least those ended. He is a permanent blight upon WPA.

i dont agree with this but your statement "Bob Nutting is worse than one of the Seven Plagues in the Bible because at least those ended" made me laugh at loud..

well done..

 

[Wanstash21]

This years starting lineup is better than last year. It’s not all about pitcher wins and losses on a bad team. Brubaker was better down the stretch last year and was showing signs of continuing that improvement this season. He’s a decent back end of the rotation guy on many mlb teams.

That being said, interested to see what Oviedo can do in his absence.

you're gonna upset people

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

im actually excited for our lineup, on paper, it's not bad.. but man does our starting rotation look like complete dog S**t.. with or without brubaker..

im ready for Priester.. it's time to crap or get off the pot with him already.. lets see what Burrows and ortiz is all about too. these two will be 25 this year, time to cut the chord already and see what we have..

 

[wbrpanther]

Sadly Brubaker was last year’s opening day starter. This year’s opening day starter (Mitch Keller) has a career 12-29 record.

The starting pitching has been looking much better. Losing Brubaker is an unfortunate blow.

 

[HopeandChangeforAntoons]

Maybe this will open up a spot for one of the young prospects they’ve been adding to the system. “A door closes, a window opens.”

 

[CaptainMurphy]

you're gonna upset people

Yeah. If it’s not doom and gloom about the Pirates, no one wants to hear it.

Ownership sucks for sure. But this is a team with a lot of pieces in place mid-rebuild. Need a few higher level prospects to pan out (especially pitching) and this is a team that could be in the hunt for a playoff spot in 2024.

Now will ownership spend money to take the final steps or let the team die on the vine after 2015. I am pessimistic on that part.

 

[h2p_5150]

Yeah you have to hope the whole family goes down on the same plane at this point.

Baseball is pretty much dead to me. My son will probably grow up as a Phillies or Braves fan, if he even watches.

I would not shed any tears if the Nutting private jet were to pull a Malaysian air flight 370... but it wouldn't matter. There's about 5 owners in all of MLB that try to win. The rest are just collecting revenue from their local populace.

 

[CJsE]

This years starting lineup is better than last year. It’s not all about pitcher wins and losses on a bad team. Brubaker was better down the stretch last year and was showing signs of continuing that improvement this season. He’s a decent back end of the rotation guy on many mlb teams.

That being said, interested to see what Oviedo can do in his absence.

He was better down the stretch?

He had a 5.45 ERA after August 1 and gave up 13 runs in 17 innings in September-October.


Or is it because he was blowing away sub-AAA batters in spring training with a 5+ ERA?

W L ERA IP H R ER HR BB IBB SO HBP BK WP BF WHIP H9 HR9 BB9 SO9 SO/W OppQual
0 2 5.19 17.1 16 10 10 3 3 0 26 0 0 0 71 1.096 8.3 1.6 1.6 13.5 8.67 7.9

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

He has also stated that he will not sell the team because he wants to have his daughter inherit it from him. Our only hope is that this daughter marries/is married to a true Pirates fan.

Or that the child doesn’t have interest to continue in dad’s enterprise and eagerly sell.

Or even that she will have different priorities/want to ‘rebel’ against dad.

We know BOB would go 0-162 every year to make one cent more profit; money is entirely the one and only priority for him, and any utterance he’s ever made to the contrary is a lie. BUT the daughter might have spent years dealing with these harsh points hurled at her family, and grew up determined to do things differently. Often “differently” means worse, as we see with Art Rooney III and his lack of interest in winning vs. focusing on dubious social issues with the Steelers; perhaps the Nutting spawn will actually be the opposite and feel the urgency to produce a winner.

Not broody rikery though.

 

[PANTHERAN]

Or that the child doesn’t have interest to continue in dad’s enterprise and eagerly sell.

Or even that she will have different priorities/want to ‘rebel’ against dad.

We know BOB would go 0-162 every year to make one cent more profit; money is entirely the one and only priority for him, and any utterance he’s ever made to the contrary is a lie. BUT the daughter might have spent years dealing with these harsh points hurled at her family, and grew up determined to do things differently. Often “differently” means worse, as we see with Art Rooney III and his lack of interest in winning vs. focusing on dubious social issues with the Steelers; perhaps the Nutting spawn will actually be the opposite and feel the urgency to produce a winner.

Not broody rikery though.

He only wants to win if he can have the lowest payroll. Look at the total payroll for all MLB teams for the years since he took over the Bucs and I bet the Bucs have spent the least by a significant amount.

 

[Ski11585]

The Pirates might be the worst franchise in major American sports. They're closer to a Ponzi scheme than they are to a competitive franchise.

Bob Nutting is worse than one of the Seven Plagues in the Bible because at least those ended. He is a permanent blight upon WPA.

Dan Snyder says what’s up.

 

[PANTHERAN]

Yeah you have to hope the whole family goes down on the same plane at this point.

Baseball is pretty much dead to me. My son will probably grow up as a Phillies or Braves fan, if he even watches.

The only hope I have for them is the talent level in the minors but that is only because they draft in the top 5 every year. There is no doubt in my mind that any decent FO can make true contenders out of the minor league talent currently in their system. With this FO, I have doubts.

 

[Parkview57]

He’s a decent back end of the rotation guy on many mlb teams

Many is too inclusive in this context, IMO See below...

He had a 5.45 ERA after August 1 and gave up 13 runs in 17 innings in September-October.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Many is too inclusive in this context, IMO See below...

Ok maybe I was being too generous. I still think he has upside to be better.

 

[Parkview57]

I still think he has upside to be better.

Understood.

 

[MattP31]

The Pirates might be the worst franchise in major American sports. They're closer to a Ponzi scheme than they are to a competitive franchise.

Bob Nutting is worse than one of the Seven Plagues in the Bible because at least those ended. He is a permanent blight upon WPA.

They’re really not.

The Washington Commanders are a very real thing.

The Sacramento Kings are having a good enough year, but every move they’ve made under Vivek Ranadive is super questionable including the front office/coaching moves.

As bad as things are for the Pirates, the Oakland A’s are even cheaper. Say what you want about Nutting being cheap, but during this team’s last little run they were paying guys a bit. Oakland doesn’t even do that and plays in a literal sh*t hole for a stadium.

Have you seen the moves the Colorado Rockies have made? Just because they pay guys doesn’t make them a better org than the Pirates, because they always give out the worst deals

The LA Angels have the 2 best players on this planet and can’t sniff the playoffs because their owner is too involved and wants to play fantasy baseball instead of actually using that money wisely

The Arizona Coyotes are so cheap that they are playing in a borrowed arena from a college team. Not like it matters that much since they have an AHL team no one wants to watch

I don’t want to say anything bad about MJ, but the Charlotte Hornets are either bad or mediocre every year and don’t have much of anything to show for it

The Las Vegas Raiders recently brought in 2 media guys to run the team as head coach and GM. How’d that decision work out.

The Pirates aren’t a good organization, but speaking as a non-Pirates fan, they’re barely in the Top 10 worst organizations in pro sports today, and up until recently weren’t even in the Top 10 because I don’t mention the Phoenix Suns or Chicago Blackhawks(even beyond the scandal, them drafting that kid with the issues as a teen) due to ownership or mass front office moves from toxic organizations

 

[Tucker99]

The Pirates might be the worst franchise in major American sports. They're closer to a Ponzi scheme than they are to a competitive franchise.

Bob Nutting is worse than one of the Seven Plagues in the Bible because at least those ended. He is a permanent blight upon WPA.

What frustrates me, is that, if they build a team just to even sniff the wild card, PNC would be packed.

 

[Dan1911]

As bad as things are for the Pirates, the Oakland A’s are even cheaper. Say what you want about Nutting being cheap, but during this team’s last little run they were paying guys a bit. Oakland doesn’t even do that and plays in a literal sh*t hole for a stadium

Thanks. These clowns are moving to Vegas so now we have to fund another awful pro team with taxpayer money. They've been searching for sites in the valley for several years now. With the Raiders already here, I'm so annoyed with this situation.

On the bright side, maybe everyone will go see the As and the triple A Aviators/51s tickets can be had at a reasonable price and all the yuppies will go away.

 

[Wanstash21]

Yeah. If it’s not doom and gloom about the Pirates, no one wants to hear it.

Ownership sucks for sure. But this is a team with a lot of pieces in place mid-rebuild. Need a few higher level prospects to pan out (especially pitching) and this is a team that could be in the hunt for a playoff spot in 2024.

Now will ownership spend money to take the final steps or let the team die on the vine after 2015. I am pessimistic on that part.

ownership trying to extend Reynolds before the season. Signed Hayes last year.

People will complain about Hedges, Santana, Rich Hill, Choi, etc .. but those guys were on winning clubs last year. They've been on wining clubs throughout their careers. I think it says something that they brought those guys in over the Ben Gamels over the world .. again, those guys aren't going to carry us to anything, but they're solid supporting pieces that are great clubhouse guys .. when you have a young team, you need veteran leadership like that... but all we'll see is how Austin Hedges can't hit all year .. as if that's why the Pirates signed him. Not to develop our young arms and catchers... same with Rich Hill.

I'll also never understand what complaining about ownership does for people .. we all understand it sucks... that doesn't mean we can't cheer for the team we love. The other part about complaining about not spending money ... nobody EVER mentions 1) how much money that should realistically spend and 2) who they should sign ... if you're looking for $200M payroll, that's like complaining you aren't winning the mega millions on a $1 scratch off .. it's IMPOSSIBLE. Will NEVER happen... which players should they have realistically signed?

C - they have two young studs coming up .. they signed a stop gap that was a starting catcher in the playoffs last year.

1b - signed two 1B's that have played a pile of playoff games .. Santana helped the Mariners push last year.

2b - options were Segura .. he signed for $17M in Miami .. next best option? Adam Frazier .. signed for $8M .. are Pirates fans mad we didn't spend on Adam Frazier? FWIW, I like Castro.

ss - we're covered here for a while

3b - we're covered here for a while

LF - trying to extend Reynolds before the year .. just offered 7 yrs over 100M

CF - Suwinski right now, but Bae is also working his way up .. Bae can also play 2b. Options would could've signed? .. Nimmo resigned with the mets for $162M .. Cubs got Bellinger for $17M .. we want to sign a .200 hitter for $17M .. that would've made Pirates fans happy? He would've made us that much better?

RF - I like CNS, but one guy I did like on the market was Haniger .. average salary of $14M/per .. maybe they could've taken a run at him? other than that .. it's a wasteland (besides Judge)... I'd much rather play our prospects.

SP - Mitch. Conteras. Ovideo. Priester .. now Quinn isn't up yet, but that's 4 slots you should have filled with young guys .. they have Brubaker, Hill, Velasquez as stop gaps... would Pirates fans have been happy signing Quintanna for $13M/year? Evoldi for $17M/year? Taillon for $17M/year? does adding $50M in payroll give you even 10 more wins? I don't think it does.

Money doesn't correlate to winning unless you buy the highest end guys .. which only 5 teams do. At the end of the day, you need to spend money when the time is right, and Nutting showed he'd do it to a certain extent .. 80% of the league grows their core .. that's how it works. The Braves grew their entire team and then supplemented when they had to .. now, they're throwing money at their young guys which is awesome and Nutting is showing he may want to do that .. but they got Matt Olson.. who else did they go and get? everyone else is home grown there. Everyone. Before Olson, Freeman was home grown ...

spending $15M on average players isn't a fix and doesn't make sense. People who complain about spending are clueless trolls.

 

[Ski11585]

They’re really not.

The Washington Commanders are a very real thing.

The Sacramento Kings are having a good enough year, but every move they’ve made under Vivek Ranadive is super questionable including the front office/coaching moves.

As bad as things are for the Pirates, the Oakland A’s are even cheaper. Say what you want about Nutting being cheap, but during this team’s last little run they were paying guys a bit. Oakland doesn’t even do that and plays in a literal sh*t hole for a stadium.

Have you seen the moves the Colorado Rockies have made? Just because they pay guys doesn’t make them a better org than the Pirates, because they always give out the worst deals

The LA Angels have the 2 best players on this planet and can’t sniff the playoffs because their owner is too involved and wants to play fantasy baseball instead of actually using that money wisely

The Arizona Coyotes are so cheap that they are playing in a borrowed arena from a college team. Not like it matters that much since they have an AHL team no one wants to watch

I don’t want to say anything bad about MJ, but the Charlotte Hornets are either bad or mediocre every year and don’t have much of anything to show for it

The Las Vegas Raiders recently brought in 2 media guys to run the team as head coach and GM. How’d that decision work out.

The Pirates aren’t a good organization, but speaking as a non-Pirates fan, they’re barely in the Top 10 worst organizations in pro sports today, and up until recently weren’t even in the Top 10 because I don’t mention the Phoenix Suns or Chicago Blackhawks(even beyond the scandal, them drafting that kid with the issues as a teen) due to ownership or mass front office moves from toxic organizations

Thank you. I always laugh when people say the Pirates are the worst run team in pro sports or that Nutting is the worst owner.

Nah man. Look outside western PA. Nutting is just cheap. There are lots of teams and owners that are cheap and scandal plagued. For all Nutting’s faults, he hasn’t pimped out cheerleaders or been forced to sell the team like Sarver or Sterling.

 

[FreeportPanther]

The starting pitching has been looking much better. Losing Brubaker is an unfortunate blow.

That old man they signed is getting his A$$ handed to him all spring!
Looks like a totally wasted signing, the guy is probably washed up!!
43 years old???? Only the Pirates!

 

[FreeportPanther]

ownership trying to extend Reynolds before the season. Signed Hayes last year.

People will complain about Hedges, Santana, Rich Hill, Choi, etc .. but those guys were on winning clubs last year. They've been on wining clubs throughout their careers. I think it says something that they brought those guys in over the Ben Gamels over the world .. again, those guys aren't going to carry us to anything, but they're solid supporting pieces that are great clubhouse guys .. when you have a young team, you need veteran leadership like that... but all we'll see is how Austin Hedges can't hit all year .. as if that's why the Pirates signed him. Not to develop our young arms and catchers... same with Rich Hill.

I'll also never understand what complaining about ownership does for people .. we all understand it sucks... that doesn't mean we can't cheer for the team we love. The other part about complaining about not spending money ... nobody EVER mentions 1) how much money that should realistically spend and 2) who they should sign ... if you're looking for $200M payroll, that's like complaining you aren't winning the mega millions on a $1 scratch off .. it's IMPOSSIBLE. Will NEVER happen... which players should they have realistically signed?

C - they have two young studs coming up .. they signed a stop gap that was a starting catcher in the playoffs last year.

1b - signed two 1B's that have played a pile of playoff games .. Santana helped the Mariners push last year.

2b - options were Segura .. he signed for $17M in Miami .. next best option? Adam Frazier .. signed for $8M .. are Pirates fans mad we didn't spend on Adam Frazier? FWIW, I like Castro.

ss - we're covered here for a while

3b - we're covered here for a while

LF - trying to extend Reynolds before the year .. just offered 7 yrs over 100M

CF - Suwinski right now, but Bae is also working his way up .. Bae can also play 2b. Options would could've signed? .. Nimmo resigned with the mets for $162M .. Cubs got Bellinger for $17M .. we want to sign a .200 hitter for $17M .. that would've made Pirates fans happy? He would've made us that much better?

RF - I like CNS, but one guy I did like on the market was Haniger .. average salary of $14M/per .. maybe they could've taken a run at him? other than that .. it's a wasteland (besides Judge)... I'd much rather play our prospects.

SP - Mitch. Conteras. Ovideo. Priester .. now Quinn isn't up yet, but that's 4 slots you should have filled with young guys .. they have Brubaker, Hill, Velasquez as stop gaps... would Pirates fans have been happy signing Quintanna for $13M/year? Evoldi for $17M/year? Taillon for $17M/year? does adding $50M in payroll give you even 10 more wins? I don't think it does.

Money doesn't correlate to winning unless you buy the highest end guys .. which only 5 teams do. At the end of the day, you need to spend money when the time is right, and Nutting showed he'd do it to a certain extent .. 80% of the league grows their core .. that's how it works. The Braves grew their entire team and then supplemented when they had to .. now, they're throwing money at their young guys which is awesome and Nutting is showing he may want to do that .. but they got Matt Olson.. who else did they go and get? everyone else is home grown there. Everyone. Before Olson, Freeman was home grown ...

spending $15M on average players isn't a fix and doesn't make sense. People who complain about spending are clueless trolls.

Agree with much you say here. It isn't all doom and gloom on the horizon.
So, if they can get a 7 year offer to Reynolds for around $110-115 million, that would be reasonable and something he might go for if he's being truthful about staying in PIttsburgh.

One beef with Pirates' ownership is they still play very conservatively, read Cheap, with bringing prospects up to the majors.
Case in point, Endy Rodriguez. He's ready, period. He should be on the opening day roster. The defensive catcher they signed wold be a great mentor for him and they could use Rodriguez' bat which is 10 times better than the guy who will be starting.

The other place guys need to get their feet wet is starting pitching. They have a couple of guys who are ready, but are holding them back.

Those decisions are all about free agency eligibility and super 2 crap. The Pirates are one of the few MLB teams still playing this game so tightly and Nutting has to realize he's making tons of $$ with the buildup of equity in the franchise and loosen up the day to day payroll to reflect that fact!!!

 

[CaptainMurphy]

ownership trying to extend Reynolds before the season. Signed Hayes last year.

People will complain about Hedges, Santana, Rich Hill, Choi, etc .. but those guys were on winning clubs last year. They've been on wining clubs throughout their careers. I think it says something that they brought those guys in over the Ben Gamels over the world .. again, those guys aren't going to carry us to anything, but they're solid supporting pieces that are great clubhouse guys .. when you have a young team, you need veteran leadership like that... but all we'll see is how Austin Hedges can't hit all year .. as if that's why the Pirates signed him. Not to develop our young arms and catchers... same with Rich Hill.

I'll also never understand what complaining about ownership does for people .. we all understand it sucks... that doesn't mean we can't cheer for the team we love. The other part about complaining about not spending money ... nobody EVER mentions 1) how much money that should realistically spend and 2) who they should sign ... if you're looking for $200M payroll, that's like complaining you aren't winning the mega millions on a $1 scratch off .. it's IMPOSSIBLE. Will NEVER happen... which players should they have realistically signed?

C - they have two young studs coming up .. they signed a stop gap that was a starting catcher in the playoffs last year.

1b - signed two 1B's that have played a pile of playoff games .. Santana helped the Mariners push last year.

2b - options were Segura .. he signed for $17M in Miami .. next best option? Adam Frazier .. signed for $8M .. are Pirates fans mad we didn't spend on Adam Frazier? FWIW, I like Castro.

ss - we're covered here for a while

3b - we're covered here for a while

LF - trying to extend Reynolds before the year .. just offered 7 yrs over 100M

CF - Suwinski right now, but Bae is also working his way up .. Bae can also play 2b. Options would could've signed? .. Nimmo resigned with the mets for $162M .. Cubs got Bellinger for $17M .. we want to sign a .200 hitter for $17M .. that would've made Pirates fans happy? He would've made us that much better?

RF - I like CNS, but one guy I did like on the market was Haniger .. average salary of $14M/per .. maybe they could've taken a run at him? other than that .. it's a wasteland (besides Judge)... I'd much rather play our prospects.

SP - Mitch. Conteras. Ovideo. Priester .. now Quinn isn't up yet, but that's 4 slots you should have filled with young guys .. they have Brubaker, Hill, Velasquez as stop gaps... would Pirates fans have been happy signing Quintanna for $13M/year? Evoldi for $17M/year? Taillon for $17M/year? does adding $50M in payroll give you even 10 more wins? I don't think it does.

Money doesn't correlate to winning unless you buy the highest end guys .. which only 5 teams do. At the end of the day, you need to spend money when the time is right, and Nutting showed he'd do it to a certain extent .. 80% of the league grows their core .. that's how it works. The Braves grew their entire team and then supplemented when they had to .. now, they're throwing money at their young guys which is awesome and Nutting is showing he may want to do that .. but they got Matt Olson.. who else did they go and get? everyone else is home grown there. Everyone. Before Olson, Freeman was home grown ...

spending $15M on average players isn't a fix and doesn't make sense. People who complain about spending are clueless trolls.

Agreed with everything you said there. I know ownership sucks when it comes to spending but I think the future is reasonably bright.

 

[lilspainishflea]

They’re really not.

The Washington Commanders are a very real thing.

The Sacramento Kings are having a good enough year, but every move they’ve made under Vivek Ranadive is super questionable including the front office/coaching moves.

As bad as things are for the Pirates, the Oakland A’s are even cheaper. Say what you want about Nutting being cheap, but during this team’s last little run they were paying guys a bit. Oakland doesn’t even do that and plays in a literal sh*t hole for a stadium.

Have you seen the moves the Colorado Rockies have made? Just because they pay guys doesn’t make them a better org than the Pirates, because they always give out the worst deals

The LA Angels have the 2 best players on this planet and can’t sniff the playoffs because their owner is too involved and wants to play fantasy baseball instead of actually using that money wisely

The Arizona Coyotes are so cheap that they are playing in a borrowed arena from a college team. Not like it matters that much since they have an AHL team no one wants to watch

I don’t want to say anything bad about MJ, but the Charlotte Hornets are either bad or mediocre every year and don’t have much of anything to show for it

The Las Vegas Raiders recently brought in 2 media guys to run the team as head coach and GM. How’d that decision work out.

The Pirates aren’t a good organization, but speaking as a non-Pirates fan, they’re barely in the Top 10 worst organizations in pro sports today, and up until recently weren’t even in the Top 10 because I don’t mention the Phoenix Suns or Chicago Blackhawks(even beyond the scandal, them drafting that kid with the issues as a teen) due to ownership or mass front office moves from toxic organizations

The Commanders are typically tough and competitive-ish even if Snyder is a legit monster. They've won their division 3 times in the last 10 seasons. Not bad.

The Rockies have made the World Series and the playoffs 5 times in the last 15 years compared to the Pirates' 3. They're better than the Pirates.

The Angels at least try to win. Maybe their owner is too meddlesome but I would take an owner who gets the 2 best players in the last 30 years to Bob Nutting who can't bother to spend $6 million for a decent pitcher.

Idk anything about the Coyotes. You got me there.

And yeah the Kings, Hornets, and Raiders are all dysfunctional. Congrats, the Pirates are only a bottom 5 American franchise.

 

[pittdan77]

People who complain about spending are clueless trolls.

And playing it off as a coincidence that the Pirates have been near last in payroll average for the last ten years and they're averaging less than 70 wins is just as clueless.

Nobody is saying the Pirates have to outspend the Dodgers but nobody is winning the WS with payrolls that average in the bottom third of the league, either. The sad reality is that we all know that one extra penny won't be spent to put the club over the top to make a deep run into the playoffs. At best they get lucky or claim success by just advancing to a very watered down playoff that is designed to throw a bone to a crummy franchise on occasion. They aren't "building" anything. The model is to get close enough and then tear it all down because expectations get expensive.

 

[Wanstash21]

And playing it off as a coincidence that the Pirates have been near last in payroll average for the last ten years and they're averaging less than 70 wins is just as clueless.

Nobody is saying the Pirates have to outspend the Dodgers but nobody is winning the WS with payrolls that average in the bottom third of the league, either. The sad reality is that we all know that one extra penny won't be spent to put the club over the top to make a deep run into the playoffs. At best they get lucky or claim success by just advancing to a very watered down playoff that is designed to throw a bone to a crummy franchise on occasion. They aren't "building" anything. The model is to get close enough and then tear it all down because expectations get expensive.

the reason the Pirates have been averaging less than 70 wins isn't directly related to payroll.. that's a clueless statement. Look at how horrible they've done in the draft. Look at the years Littlefield butchered our top draft picks .. that's why they stunk before Cutch. Not because they wouldn't spend .. you don't buy young talent .. who just won the WS? Houston .. Altuve, Breman, Yordan, Tucker, Javier, Valdez.. all this young Pitching surrounded by big spending to supplement. Again, you don't buy your core unless your the dodgers or yankees .. everyone else has home grown studs .. something we haven't done well.. besides Cutch .. that's why the Cutch years were awesome.. my only gripe is that they didn't supplement enough, but they were a game away from making the NLCS so it's hard to be too upset about it.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

the reason the Pirates have been averaging less than 70 wins isn't directly related to payroll.. that's a clueless statement. Look at how horrible they've done in the draft. Look at the years Littlefield butchered our top draft picks .. that's why they stunk before Cutch. Not because they wouldn't spend .. you don't buy young talent .. who just won the WS? Houston .. Altuve, Breman, Yordan, Tucker, Javier, Valdez.. all this young Pitching surrounded by big spending to supplement. Again, you don't buy your core unless your the dodgers or yankees .. everyone else has home grown studs .. something we haven't done well.. besides Cutch .. that's why the Cutch years were awesome.. my only gripe is that they didn't supplement enough, but they were a game away from making the NLCS so it's hard to be too upset about it.

My only problem with their spending was after the 2015 season, they clearly weren’t interested in keeping the ship afloat. They replaced big time contributors like Happ and Walker with washed up guys who didn’t last the season like Niese and Vogelsong. And then they make the “big” Archer trade years too late. But I’m also not sure how much of that was Huntington turning into a real dumb GM. It’s almost like he got too cute with things and wanted to only acquire rehab projects.