Pitt Linebackers
- Thread starter WiseAndGlorious
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Sibley just peaked early, like some kids do. Doesn't mean he won't be a good player. It just means that after his sophomore year it looked like he was going to be an extraordinary player who saw the field early for a big-name team. Even if that didn't happen, it doesn't mean he isn't going to be an effective player here.
He's an 11 second 100 guy. I think he was timed at 10.9 after track season. That's pretty fast for any back let alone a between the tackles guy.
Because this isnt high school, recruit some better WR's and RB's then. Its a stupid idea from some STUPID posters.
You are entitled to your opinion on the quality of RBs on the roster. But the fact is that MOST P5 teams do not have multiple 4 star backs. Some do, but look at the rosters of the other teams in the Coastal and you will see that isn't the case.
I've seen enough 4 star RB busts on pitt's roster to realize that we need to wait and see what happens on the field before saying we are "deep" at RB. James, hall, were both 4 star RBs. lets wait for them to play and see if they pan out first.
You might be right on "Most" but I don't think we are overly talented at the position, especially relative to the above average and good teams we want to be on the same level with.
Hall and Ollison are both serviceable (I liked Moss more than both). There isn't enough (or any) tape on Davis, Sibley or Salahuddin to know what to expect from them.
If they are as advertised as recruits, this is a deep position.
If they are as advertised as recruits, this is a deep position.
The fact that they were all low to barely 4* guys, perhaps gives one some pause to say, "one of them will for sure hit." Generally you'd like to see more solid 4*s before you play the numbers game.
But RB has to be one of the units you have some confidence in in terms of talent. Obviously OL will play a big factor in whether the production is there. But in terms of pure talent, you have to like the position more than most.
But RB has to be one of the units you have some confidence in in terms of talent. Obviously OL will play a big factor in whether the production is there. But in terms of pure talent, you have to like the position more than most.
Serviceable is definitely right. We don't seem to be overly talented at the position, but it is certainly better than most, even if there is very little expectation of being a big strength.
The composite rankings had the running backs as follows:
4* Mychale Salahuddin #214 overall, #5 APB
4* Todd Sibley #273 overall #21 RB
4* AJ Davis #303 overall #22 RB
4* Darrin Hall #303 overall #25 RB
3* Qadree Ollison #813 overall #51RB
Last year the overall #376 was a consensus four star. None of them were "barely" a 4 star recruit.
4* Mychale Salahuddin #214 overall, #5 APB
4* Todd Sibley #273 overall #21 RB
4* AJ Davis #303 overall #22 RB
4* Darrin Hall #303 overall #25 RB
3* Qadree Ollison #813 overall #51RB
Last year the overall #376 was a consensus four star. None of them were "barely" a 4 star recruit.
There is a big difference between a 4 star like Reeves or Darrin Hall and a guy like Paris Ford. Darrin Hall and AJ Davis were ranked more in line with a guy like Hall, Reeves, Pugh, etc. Salahuddin was more highly regarded, at least on Rivals. Hopefully he asserts himself this year. We need him to.
If a defense is to be good or really good, really good LB's are a requirement.
Ok DL+ really good LB's = really good D
Really good DL and poor LB's = poor D
The DL can't compensate for poor LB play.
LB's = speed, adequate size, nose for the ball, football smarts. One of the more difficult spots on the field to play since you're trying to read the O while being blocked by large mobile OG's and sometimes slower OT's.
CB's and Safties will be making tackles all day 10 yards beyond the line of scrimmage.
I know this because I was an LB and so were our kids!
"it's five o'clock somewhere"
Signed: Mr Buffett
Go PITT & CSU Rams!
Ok DL+ really good LB's = really good D
Really good DL and poor LB's = poor D
The DL can't compensate for poor LB play.
LB's = speed, adequate size, nose for the ball, football smarts. One of the more difficult spots on the field to play since you're trying to read the O while being blocked by large mobile OG's and sometimes slower OT's.
CB's and Safties will be making tackles all day 10 yards beyond the line of scrimmage.
I know this because I was an LB and so were our kids!
"it's five o'clock somewhere"
Signed: Mr Buffett
Go PITT & CSU Rams!
247 considers 0.9 and greater to be a 4-5 star recruit. Less than 0.9 is a 3 star or worse. For the 2018 class that cut off for the composite was at prospect #297. For 2017 it was #273 (Todd Sibley). Salahuddin would be the only recruit you could argue was not a borderline 4 star by composite.
As someone who played LB, I couldn't disagree more. DL and DB are far, far more important than LB. This is especially true in 2018.
Yes they were. The cut off for a 247 4* is a .89
Sulla was a .91
Sibley was a .90
Davis was a .8945
Hall was a .8974
Every single one of those guys was closer to being a 3* than they were even a middle of the road 4*.
Exactly. If you removed the stars, and looked at numerical ranking of players (.89, .90, .91, .92...97, etc.), the RBs don't have elite ratings. Compared to somebody like Ford, who is closer to having a 5* rating than he is a 3 star rating.
There's some studies pointing to returning LB production having the least correlation to defensive success. Meaning it's either really easy to play LB and so nobody struggles at it. OR, even struggling LBs don't have as big of an impact on a defense as struggling DL or secondary.
LB play is also not as important in an age where the nickel has become basically the base defense.
There is a reason "newer" defenses have more hybrid athletes (whether they be in a 4-2-5 or 3-3 stack, or big nickle backs, or even the Wanny/Miami model of strong safeties converted to outside linebackers, etc.) They're trying to defend multiple/spread offense teams in space.
Everyone wants to recruit these guys, regardless of whatever position they are formally given on a depth chart. We need to also.
Everyone wants to recruit these guys, regardless of whatever position they are formally given on a depth chart. We need to also.
Yep. Bud Foster's "whip" is becoming the standard for teams that don't go straight nickel.
Otherwise you just do exactly what we did to Miami last year. Just have your true freshman QB lineup, ID which linebacker is covering the WR, and pick on him all day. Miami is actually ditching the traditional 4-3 defense this year in response to last year, and adopting Foster's whip formation as their base defense.
When the team that made a name for itself for having LBs over the years, is cutting out one of the linebackers from its base formation, you know its become a unit of significantly less importance in today's college football.
The other (sorry this might be slightly off topic) adjustment I think Narduzzi needs to make from his Michigan State days to now is about the RPO. Playing quarters/cover 4 always put a lot of pressure on safeties, but it was worth it because you could both load up against the run and still match up against the pass and play your base defense with your best 11 as much as you wanted. But now it's even MORE pressure on the safeties because the RPO is like a play action pass on steroids. And I think it really hurt us at times last year that even a good player like Jordan Whitehead could get beat so consistently.
It's obvious you never played football.
Look at ever great D and they had really good to great LB's.
The nickel D is a situational pass defense dumb as-.
No team plays the nickel defense as their main D???? Go away! Are you even a guy?? Most men know this stuff and lots of women!
Here's some excerts from a football strategy guide:
The nickel defense is a basic defensive formation that is designed to stop a pass play. The alignment features four down lineman, two linebackers, and five defensive backs. It can also be referred to as a nickel play, nickel package or nickel alignment. Also, it is known as a 4–2–5 or 3–3–5 defense.
Adding a Nickel Back to the Formation
Boosting the pass defense is needed at particular times.A nickel back goes in when there is a likely pass threat. A likely scenario, a nickel back may enter the game on third down, or any other game situation where the opposing team is known to pass. A team might be inclined to use a nickel package heavily in a game where the team they are playing is a dominant passing team.
Th coach that starts the game with a nickel D on the first play of the game probably won't be around for play two of the game!
"it's five o'clock somewhere"
Signed: Mr Buffett
Go PITT & CSU Rams!
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Again, you are not looking at the composite. The composite is the closest thing to a consensus regarding recruiting rankings. In 2018 there were 376 4* recruits. By your logic half of the 4* recruits were boarderline. That's a reach even for you.
I was an ILB as well back in the 80s when stopping the run was the be all-end all. Buffy is correct as far as defending a run-oriented offense. You are correct in the context of defending a pass-oriented offense. We certainly see more of the latter in the ACC and in college football generally now.
I played long enough to know that it really all starts with the D line, just as offense all starts with the O line. If your D line isn't getting upfield on most snaps, it stands to be a long day for the whole defense. Just as any RB is only as good as his O line, any DB is only as good as his D line. If the WRs are able to get off the LOS and the QB is comfortable, no DB is going to look good. Maddox ended up a good cover man but he wasn't ever good at the LOS. The key to defending any passing attack is to disrupt the timing and the angles. That starts with jamming the WRs. Hopefully this new crop of DBs is more physically up to the job--they are certainly longer and bigger, which is good.
While the D line is a bit of a wildcard, this is the year we get to see whether Camp, Watts, Wheeler and a couple of the others are the players we all hoped they would be when they were signed. I think they will be and my feeling is the DL will be strong this year. I expect Weaver to become a force at his DE spot. Hendrix has been a disappointment so far, not sure whether it's because he hasn't been healthy or he just isn't all that. I haven't been impressed with Folston. DE outside of Weaver is still a question mark.
I think what he;s trying to say is a lot of teams all over the country are subbing a hybrid SS/LB for that 3rd or 4th linebacker (depending on whether its a 3-4 or 4-3). That's not so much a nickel D (an obsolete term) as it is a response to the emergence of the spread offense, where every defense needs players with both the speed to cover the space underneath the LBs/secondary and the strength/size/attitude to make plays in the gaps and at the LOS as well. Khaleke Hudson plays that role in Don Brown's D, as Peppers did before him. Even Bama has a 4-2-5 type base package for spread opponents. As someone above said VT does it. Brett Venables does it at Clemson. Kirby Smart does it. It's the trend everywhere, to combat the spread.
That said, of course any great D has it all--strong DL, strong LBs and strong DBs.
This is just gibberish. I have to ask, how old are you? Over 60? You seem to be coming at this from some Lombardi era mentality.
My point was that in MODERN college football, the game has moved away from 3 LBs on the field. And so on top of studies showing that LB seems to have the least correlation to success, the modern game has also rendered them not as important since you aren't playing as many of them.
Literally nothing you said is an answer to that. It's just you describing what a defense is, and I honestly don't know why, except for, well, you were alive to watch the Ice Bowl.
"How the Nickel Became Base Defense"
https://www.sbnation.com/a/cfb-preview-2017/nickel-defense
"Here's Why The Nickel Defense is the New Base Defense in the NFL"
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/heres-why-the-nickel-defense-is-the-new-base-defense-in-the-nfl/
"Why the Nickel Defense is the New Base Defense"
https://www.watchfantom.com/why-the-nickel-defense-is-the-new-base-defense-part-one/
"Just as three-wide formations have become the offensive default, nickel defenses are now the NFL's primary defensive formation. Nickel first became more prevalent than base defenses in 2012, and became a majority of all plays in 2015. There's a reason the AP All-Pro team added an extra "defensive back" position in 2016; slot corners are now more likely to see the field than your seventh guy in your front seven."
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/2017-defensive-personnel-analysis
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No, I was literally saying Nickel D. Nickel D has become prevalent as the base defense. What you roll out the very first play of the game. And it will continue to do so, as teams continue to roll out 3 and 4 WR sets and spread you out.
Teams that don't adopt nickel as a base D, are moving towards more of a Bud Foster hybrid set. Where you take a tweeners and put them on the outside. But even that tweener is starting to move towards a more Safety-CB tweener, than a typical Safety-LB tweener.
You're clueless and hopeless and I have no time to deal with girls like you!
Mrs Buffett could crush you in a football strategy game show!
Bye numb n-ts!
I have no idea who Mrs. Buffet is, but please tell her not to cover slot receivers with LBs.
Think the Steelers are goin down this road with their first rd draft pick. Sad day in my life when a franchise like the Steelers go down the road of de emphasizing the linebacker position.
Just saw this after I posted. Their first pick or Allen in the 5th point toward that shift. It isn’t sad. Sad is watching your LBers getting shredded by slot WRs, flex TEs and backs.
No, it’s sad. Watching a physical game transition into a 7 on7 passing exhibition is sad.
Stopping the run primary is ancient history for strategy.
Why do you think the patriots have been a dynasty?
Because of their dominant rent a Rb offense?
Evolution.
Slow white guys who can’t run down field to cover , and can only fill a hole in run support-
Are extinct.
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