Pitt soccer finishes 5th straight winless conference season

[Sean Miller Fan]

The streak is nearing epic proportions. Pitt has not won a conference match since October 8, 2011 (2-0 vs Seton Hall).

Todd Graham was our football coach then, that's how long ago it was.

Jay Vidovich knew this would be a challenge and knew he had to recruit a whole lot better caliber of player but I haven't heard that he is really elevating recruiting. Perhaps some of that is due to our turf field which is frowned upon in the soccer world. I know some of these kids grow up playing on turf fields but given the choice, a beautiful grass pitch easily wins out. I'm not sure why Pitt eveb put in a turf soccer field. WVU, PSU, and Akron have grass.

 

[bwh05]

We need better players. Jay will take care of that and we'll be better soon.

 

[tr3440]

He needs a couple classes to change the talent he has right now. You can't win games with three or four players

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

He needs a couple classes to change the talent he has right now. You can't win games with three or four players

Is he getting those players? Can he get those players to play for a turf team?

I was sitting by ND parents at a recent game and they were making fun of our turf field, pointing out every time the ball scooted faster or bounced higher than it would on grass. This is definitely a drawback. Does it make it impossible, no, but harder.

 

[Pitt79]

They don't give many scholarships. Only a couple guys on the team have a full ride. My nephew was a walk on for a year (he was WPIAL Class A all star), he said that year they had 2 full rides and another 8-10 guys who got partials.

 

[tr3440]

The turf does not matter to players. They play on turf through club and high school. In regards to scholarships. Most are partial. If you have slot of walkons your doomed for failure. I believe you get a total of 14. Then you break those up for a 24-30 roster

 

[bwh05]

the men are a big rebuild job. It's not going to happen instantly, but we're going to get it turned around.

 

[thom67]

They don't give many scholarships. Only a couple guys on the team have a full ride. My nephew was a walk on for a year (he was WPIAL Class A all star), he said that year they had 2 full rides and another 8-10 guys who got partials.

Pitt has a full allotment of scholies now. I think it is 9.9 scholies.

 

[tr3440]

Pitt has a full allotment of scholies now. I think it is 9.9 scholies.

I thought D1 was 14 and D2 was 10 Scholies

 

[bwh05]

I thought D1 was 14 and D2 was 10 Scholies

9.9 for men and women are 14

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I thought D1 was 14 and D2 was 10 Scholies

That's for women. Or to be more precise, women get 14 for D1 and 9.9 for D2. Men is 9.9 for D1 and 9 for D2.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Only a couple guys on the team have a full ride.

I would imagine there are very, very few D1 men's players who are on a full ride. I doubt Pitt has even a couple.

 

[thom67]

I would imagine there are very, very few D1 men's players who are on a full ride. I doubt Pitt has even a couple.

Most top programs have roughly 16-18 players on scholarship with 4-5 on full rides and the other 12-13 splitting 5-6 scholies getting 1/4 to 1/2 rides.

 

[anon_d97v9o3a8b6xr]

Natural grass is the way to go. If only we had Louisville money. Soccer recruiting is something Pitt can absolutely turn around. It's not the same as football, where you have the same core schools always dominating. Several years ago, Akron was killing it, Now they aren't even in the top 25. IT also helps that you play more games than in football, so you aren't protecting your schedule like football does. The ACC is the conference to be in for both men's and women's soccer. Maryland, WF, UNC, Clemson, Syracuse, Louisville, ND, UVA, VT are all top 25. That's the competition for Pitt. On the women's side, UVA, Clemson, ND, Duke, FSU, UNC, NC State are all top 25. It's a tough mountain to climb for both programs. But the men are in absolutely great hands. But it'll take some time.

 

[tr3440]

Louisville soccer field is one of the best in the country.

 

[anon_d97v9o3a8b6xr]

Louisville soccer field is one of the best in the country.

Yeah, it's amazing what kind of money Louisville gets for all sports.

Here is Virginia Tech's stadium. Much more reasonable. Metal stands, but amazing pitch.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Yeah, it's amazing what kind of money Louisville gets for all sports.

Here is Virginia Tech's stadium. Much more reasonable. Metal stands, but amazing pitch.

I think Pitt is the only turf field in the ACC. I'm sorry but although I realize that most recruits have played on turf a lot in HS and in club, most soccer players prefer grass a million percent more. There is nothing like a pristine pitch of grass and I really think our turf is holding us back.

Why exactly did we install a turf field anyway? Soccer is played on grass and every other regional team has a grass field.

 

[Pitt Law '04]

I think Pitt is the only turf field in the ACC. I'm sorry but although I realize that most recruits have played on turf a lot in HS and in club, most soccer players prefer grass a million percent more. There is nothing like a pristine pitch of grass and I really think our turf is holding us back.

Why exactly did we install a turf field anyway? Soccer is played on grass and every other regional team has a grass field.

Boston College plays on turf, as does almost every urban school in the Northeast part of the country.

This is not a big deal and I don't understand your focus on it.

More than any other sport, soccer is about players. It's what makes it great to watch. Coaches or managers can influence tactics, but they don't (and can't) call designed plays.

Coach will get the players --he's won a national title and put players into the pros. It's just going to take a little bit of time.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Boston College plays on turf, as does almost every urban school in the Northeast part of the country.

This is not a big deal and I don't understand your focus on it.

More than any other sport, soccer is about players. It's what makes it great to watch. Coaches or managers can influence tactics, but they don't (and can't) call designed plays.

Coach will get the players --he's won a national title and put players into the pros. It's just going to take a little bit of time.

Syracuse has grass. So does nearby programs with the same climate: VT, UVa, Md, PSU, OSU, WVU, and Akron.

 

[anon_d97v9o3a8b6xr]

I've played on all surfaces in multiple countries, from Mexico to Canada, to all over Europe and Asia. Grass is and always will be the best pitch for soccer. There is absolutely no question about it. The US Women absolutely hated the turf in Canada, and every player I've played with will agree, grass is it. The feel of the ball, the way the ball moves, striking the ball, passing the ball, running etc etc, is different on turf than grass.

Why do urban schools go with turf, because of easy maintenance. Not much to it. Grass requires knowledge of, well, grass. It requires special drainage, special watering system, and other treatments. You need an entire team of natural turf experts to take care of it. Artificial turf is the easy way out.

What would Liverpool, Everton, MU, MC, or the Bundesliga players say if their owners said they were converting to artificial turf? They and the fans would riot.

 

[Pitt Law '04]

I've played on all surfaces in multiple countries, from Mexico to Canada, to all over Europe and Asia. Grass is and always will be the best pitch for soccer. There is absolutely no question about it. The US Women absolutely hated the turf in Canada, and every player I've played with will agree, grass is it. The feel of the ball, the way the ball moves, striking the ball, passing the ball, running etc etc, is different on turf than grass.

Why do urban schools go with turf, because of easy maintenance. Not much to it. Grass requires knowledge of, well, grass. It requires special drainage, special watering system, and other treatments. You need an entire team of natural turf experts to take care of it. Artificial turf is the easy way out.

What would Liverpool, Everton, MU, MC, or the Bundesliga players say if their owners said they were converting to artificial turf? They and the fans would riot.

Pitt isn't Everton or Liverpool or Man United. It's a university, not a pro team.

Artificial turf is the easy way out--particularly for a school like Pitt that lacks the donations and revenue necessary to maintain a grass field in an urban environment in the Northeast. That's correct. So we can either complain about it, accept it, or donate money to change it.

If you feel so strongly about the issue, please feel free to increase your donation to the Panther Club and ask that it be applied to the soccer program.

 

[Pitt Law '04]

Syracuse has grass. So does nearby programs with the same climate: VT, UVa, Md, PSU, OSU, WVU, and Akron.

So?

The fact is that the turf on the field is not going to be an impediment to improving the team. We simply need better players. We have an excellent coach. I think that if turf would be such large impediment as you suggest (and would hurt recruiting that much)--then he wouldn't have taken the job.

 

[Pitt79]

I've been to a lot of high school and travel club soccer games in Maryland, VA, PA, NJ, DE the last 2 years and I'd say 75% of these games are on turf, not natural grass, and the ones that where on grass, where usually poorly maintained, So I'd think a lot of these kids are coming up playing on turf.

 

[JD1976]

That's for women. Or to be more precise, women get 14 for D1 and 9.9 for D2. Men is 9.9 for D1 and 9 for D2.

There are very few schools that don't have a D-1 women's program. I think it's over 330 programs. Women's soccer is the only other sport with a 64-team NCAA tourney to my knowledge. Hence more scholarships for the women. Surprisingly, there are very few men's programs. The number is under 100. Almost no Big 12 or SEC schools have men's soccer.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Women's teams get more scholarships for soccer than men's teams do for exactly the same reason that women's basketball teams get more scholarships than men's basketball teams do. Title IX. There are far more schools with a women's soccer program than a men's soccer program for one reason. Title IX.

Somehow schools have to approximately even out their number of scholarships given out between men and women. Since there is no women's sport comparible to football schools have to make up the difference somewhere. They do that by having certain sports for women that they don't have for men, and they do that by having more scholarships for women in sports that they do have programs for both sexes.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Women's soccer is the only other sport with a 64-team NCAA tourney to my knowledge.

Women's volleyball has 64 as well.

 

[Panther Parrothead]

I've played on all surfaces in multiple countries, from Mexico to Canada, to all over Europe and Asia. Grass is and always will be the best pitch for soccer. There is absolutely no question about it. The US Women absolutely hated the turf in Canada, and every player I've played with will agree, grass is it. The feel of the ball, the way the ball moves, striking the ball, passing the ball, running etc etc, is different on turf than grass.

Why do urban schools go with turf, because of easy maintenance. Not much to it. Grass requires knowledge of, well, grass. It requires special drainage, special watering system, and other treatments. You need an entire team of natural turf experts to take care of it. Artificial turf is the easy way out.

What would Liverpool, Everton, MU, MC, or the Bundesliga players say if their owners said they were converting to artificial turf? They and the fans would riot.

^^^All good points.^^^ I'd add that schools that are strapped for land have to go the turf route, too, because the one field is often being used for multiple teams and practices.

I know that the two times that my son played on the Nits' grass (Jeffery Field), they wouldn't even allow his team's goal keeper to warm-up in front of the net - claiming that the repetitious back & forth movements in that small space would add unnecessary wear 'n tear to the natural grass in front of the net. That field was, by far, the nicest soccer pitch that I've ever seen.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

So?

The fact is that the turf on the field is not going to be an impediment to improving the team. We simply need better players. We have an excellent coach. I think that if turf would be such large impediment as you suggest (and would hurt recruiting that much)--then he wouldn't have taken the job.

And I am saying that it is going to be difficult for Vidovich to recruit elite players to play on turf. When they take visits to other schools and see pristine grass pitches, dont think Pitt's turf will be a drawback. I don't know how you can follow soccer and not understand that turf is completely frowned upon by the soccer community.

 

[Pitt79]

And I am saying that it is going to be difficult for Vidovich to recruit elite players to play on turf. When they take visits to other schools and see pristine grass pitches, dont think Pitt's turf will be a drawback. I don't know how you can follow soccer and not understand that turf is completely frowned upon by the soccer community.

These kids don't grow up obsessed with playing on pristine grass. And you're talking about the high end soccer community, kids, clubs, schools, many, many are playing on turf these days.

 

[PeetWeet1]

I've played on all surfaces in multiple countries, from Mexico to Canada, to all over Europe and Asia. Grass is and always will be the best pitch for soccer. There is absolutely no question about it. The US Women absolutely hated the turf in Canada, and every player I've played with will agree, grass is it. The feel of the ball, the way the ball moves, striking the ball, passing the ball, running etc etc, is different on turf than grass.

Why do urban schools go with turf, because of easy maintenance. Not much to it. Grass requires knowledge of, well, grass. It requires special drainage, special watering system, and other treatments. You need an entire team of natural turf experts to take care of it. Artificial turf is the easy way out.

What would Liverpool, Everton, MU, MC, or the Bundesliga players say if their owners said they were converting to artificial turf? They and the fans would riot.

And I am saying that it is going to be difficult for Vidovich to recruit elite players to play on turf. When they take visits to other schools and see pristine grass pitches, dont think Pitt's turf will be a drawback. I don't know how you can follow soccer and not understand that turf is completely frowned upon by the soccer community.

And yet, the Seattle Sounders play on it. In a perfect world, both a turf and a grass field would be available. If you have to pick one, you must pick turf or you will either be playing in mud or miss way too many practices and games.

 

[Pitt Law '04]

Creighton has one of the finest men's soccer programs in the country. They play on turf.

The field surface is not going to prevent Coach Vidovich from getting top players.

Would everyone like a natural surface and a turf field? Sure. But Pitt doesn't have those kinds of resources. So we make due with what we have.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

To give an example of how tough it is to win in the ACC, the ACC changed the conference tournament this year to include all 12 teams. Previously two teams didn't make it and only the top 10 did. So Pitt is the 12th seed in the tournament and on Wednesday they are playing at the number five seed, Syracuse. That's Syracuse, the number five seed in the ACC tournament and ranked number six in the country in last weeks poll.

Virginia Tech is the ninth seed, which means they have to go on the road for their first round game. They were ranked 23 last week. Ninth best in the conference, in the national top 25. Notre Dame is the seven seed. They were 12th in the country last week.

There were five ACC teams in the top seven last week, 2, 3, 5, 6 and 7. No wonder we can't win.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Creighton has one of the finest men's soccer programs in the country. They play on turf.

The field surface is not going to prevent Coach Vidovich from getting top players.

Would everyone like a natural surface and a turf field? Sure. But Pitt doesn't have those kinds of resources. So we make due with what we have.

OK. So that is one turf program that is top-tier. Are there any others?

Pitt has several disadvantages when it comes to soccer recruiting:

- historically terrible program
- very few if any ACC level players locally
- climate
- campus (rich white kids typically prefer rural campuses)

I'm saying you throw in the fact that we play on turf and that's another obstacle Vidovich has to overcome.

 

[89nole]

There are very few schools that don't have a D-1 women's program. I think it's over 330 programs. Women's soccer is the only other sport with a 64-team NCAA tourney to my knowledge. Hence more scholarships for the women. Surprisingly, there are very few men's programs. The number is under 100. Almost no Big 12 or SEC schools have men's soccer.

Baseball and Softball are at 64.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Baseball and Softball are at 64.

Women's Volleyball is at 64.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Women's Volleyball is at 64.

Hmmm. If only someone had mentioned that like, nine posts ago.

 

[Del Ray Panther]

If Pitt is the only school playing on turf (for half of their conference games).....wouldn't that give them a legitimate home field advantage if all the other schools only see it once a year (in conference)? I'd take any break we can get.........

 

[mattyf98]

The streak is nearing epic proportions. Pitt has not won a conference match since October 8, 2011 (2-0 vs Seton Hall).

Todd Graham was our football coach then, that's how long ago it was.

Jay Vidovich knew this would be a challenge and knew he had to recruit a whole lot better caliber of player but I haven't heard that he is really elevating recruiting. Perhaps some of that is due to our turf field which is frowned upon in the soccer world. I know some of these kids grow up playing on turf fields but given the choice, a beautiful grass pitch easily wins out. I'm not sure why Pitt eveb put in a turf soccer field. WVU, PSU, and Akron have grass.

Turf is a small factor...turf has come a long way to being similar to grass...the other schools you mentioned have way more space than us and can build many more fields...its turf so it can sustain the wear and tear of a lot of use. Vidovich will win here...he needs a few years to bring in some talent...it will come...look at his record at WF

 

[mattyf98]

OK. So that is one turf program that is top-tier. Are there any others?

Pitt has several disadvantages when it comes to soccer recruiting:

- historically terrible program
- very few if any ACC level players locally
- climate
- campus (rich white kids typically prefer rural campuses)

I'm saying you throw in the fact that we play on turf and that's another obstacle Vidovich has to overcome.

-not a horrible program
-a lot of talent locally...ACC talent...we haven't recruited locally in years
-climate can't change...how about Syracuse...or UCONN two great soccer programs...bad climate
-Campus? Pitt is a top tier academic school that brings students in from all over the world...

 

[JD1976]

OK. So that is one turf program that is top-tier. Are there any others?

Pitt has several disadvantages when it comes to soccer recruiting:

- historically terrible program
- very few if any ACC level players locally
- climate
- campus (rich white kids typically prefer rural campuses)

I'm saying you throw in the fact that we play on turf and that's another obstacle Vidovich has to overcome.

Climate isn't a factor. Penn State won the national title last year and pulls in Top 5 recruiting classes every year and WVU is ranked #1 in the country this year. So there goes that theory.

There is merit to your last point about the profile of a typical top soccer recruit. Most are white, upper middle class and suburban. The top programs in the nation have campuses that mirror those demographics (PSU, UNC, Duke, UVA, Stanford).