Pitt Tonight host interviews Chancellor & AD about stadium & paying athletes

[CrazyPaco]

The host of Pitt Tonight, which has been a student late night format show the last couple of years, had an informal day hanging out with the Chancellor and new athletic director.

About half way through, over a Sorrento's pizza, he asks several topics that keep popping up on these message boards:

 

[ThePanthers]

Can someone put cliffnotes? I can't watch this at work.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Can someone put cliffnotes? I can't watch this at work.

Gallagher said that Mark Cuban and David Tepper are interested in donating about $400M for the new stadium.

Oops, I mean he pretty muich said it's too much of a project for them to handle. Parking. Space. Yadda Yadda Yadda. Where's the pizza? Yeah Heinz.

 

[Panther Parrothead]

Gallagher said that Mark Cuban and David Tepper are interested in donating about $400M for the new stadium.

Oops, I mean he pretty muich said it's too much of a project for them to handle. Parking. Space. Yadda Yadda Yadda.

I'd be disappointed if the Chancellor would have responded in any other way. At least we know that he hasn't lost his mind.

 

[pitt-girl]

Look the reality is even if Pitt could find the space and the money, the city of Pittsburgh will make this next to impossible. There's nothing the Chancellor can do about that unfortunately.

 

[Revenge Of The Noise]

I

Look the reality is even if Pitt could find the space and the money, the city of Pittsburgh will make this next to impossible. There's nothing the Chancellor can do about that unfortunately.

This is true, especially the first part.

The irony is that Pitt has a much better situation being in Heinz than "on campus". If it is already so difficult for Pitt to stay in financial range of other programs how well do people think we'd be with a giant money pit of a stadium to pay debt on and maintain?

I guess our admin is too polite to say it not wanting to add insult to injury to our vocal "stadium" sect, but really should slam the media trolls who persist in doing the Nits bidding by dwelling on the campus stadium bullsheet.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Shockingly Zeta's story about lawyers talking in Meat and Potatos about a new stadium have been confirmed. As if there was any doubt. Visit www.newpittstadium.com for pertinent details.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Shockingly Zeta's story about lawyers talking in Meat and Potatos about a new stadium have been confirmed. As if there was any doubt. Visit www.newpittstadium.com for pertinent details.

http://nebula.wsimg.com/bd9118efd33...61A2FC38862C8F416&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

Artist's rendering of the new stadium's exterior. Great mix of old and new.

 

[pitt-girl]

Shockingly Zeta's story about lawyers talking in Meat and Potatos about a new stadium have been confirmed. As if there was any doubt. Visit www.newpittstadium.com for pertinent details.

I'll believe it when I see it. There are so many obstacles for this to ever happen. And like I said the biggest just may be the city and all that they will demand for it to go forward including new infrastructure. It's not ideal, but we have a perfectly fine stadium. JMO, but Pitt's money is best spent elsewhere.

 

[Swervin27]

Pitt can't get rid of a 300' stretch of road and plant grass and we expect a stadium.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Look the reality is even if Pitt could find the space and the money, the city of Pittsburgh will make this next to impossible. There's nothing the Chancellor can do about that unfortunately.

The reality is that almost every other school has one, even those in densely populated urban environments. We are just one of the only schools stupid enough to give the space up, and playing at Heinz puts the program at a huge disadvantage. Lots of people still don't realize it, or are just in denial.

 

[Revenge Of The Noise]

The reality is that almost every other school has one, even those in densely populated urban environments. We are just one of the only schools stupid enough to give the space up, and playing at Heinz puts the program at a huge disadvantage. Lots of people still don't realize it, or are just in denial.

What was definitely stupid was exchanging the space for a basketball arena, only to let the program go to hell...as it stands, it is likely to be one of the very worst in the country for a very long time now. Which will mean that big costly arena taking up priceless space will be tragically empty most game nights.

It was moronic, no other word, and Nordenberg deserves much of the blame for letting Dixon's final years collapse, but Gallagher finished the job with the Stallings fiasco. Frankly, Gallagher has some nerve talking publicly at all about sports right now...he should be hiding under his desk.

That said, the switch to Heinz was still the best alternative by far to dropping the program, which was a totally real likelihood if the situation hadn't miraculously come along. The program was dead in 1996, and the stadium was literally in ruins. NOTHING WAS GOING TO COME ALONG TO FIX THAT until the Heinz deal emerged.

The only disadvantage to the situation is that the admin won't throw in behind winning enough and as a result, 70,000 is too big. But winning would fix that. Winning ONE fluke game like Clemson? Not enough. People won't be convinced by that. But a division championship, a conference championship, a legitimate bowl (and WINNING it), a top 10 finish, a run to the playoff ... and a few repeats of that ... and those seats WILL Be filled.

And it wouldn't matter if the place was on campus, or the North Side, or in Southpointe, or Cranberry, or the Airport, or Stubenville (the Burb of the Burgh) or Greensburg (Pitt's only realistic chance for an 'on campus' stadium!) for that matter. People would scratch and claw their way there wherever it is.

Last week, the friggin Liberty Bridge was totally closed and it didn't stop Penguins fans from making it to PPG from the South Hills. BECAUSE THE TEAM IS GREAT, DEFENDING STANLEY CUP CHAMPS...AND THE GAME MEANT SOMETHING.

IMPROVE THE FRIGGIN PRODUCT.

 

[ZetaZetaBeta]

LOLOLOL. The usual suspects. Ignorance is bliss. And many here are just too pleased with themselves ....

 

[NTOP]

The host of Pitt Tonight, which has been a student late night format show the last couple of years, had an informal day hanging out with the Chancellor and new athletic director.

About half way through, over a Sorrento's pizza, he asks several topics that keep popping up on these message boards:

View embedded media

I just couldn't get my head wrapped around the thought of MN & SP doing that. Or Killer "B' #4. Nice people....let's hope they do a great job. Love the tape....good work. (No Dinocats, either!!)

 

[rpost3]

Can someone please post some 10 year before-after results of programs building on-campus stadiums?
I'm interested in the results but no way am I dicking around the net to find the answers.

Personally I'd rather share facilities with a pro team and be around pro coaches / athletes / scouts all the time. Seems that perk is often cited by recruits/players.

Not to mention there's much more efficient building projects that would attract students more than a stadium they'd step into 7-8 times per year.

 

[CrazyPaco]

The reality is that almost every other school has one, even those in densely populated urban environments. We are just one of the only schools stupid enough to give the space up, and playing at Heinz puts the program at a huge disadvantage. Lots of people still don't realize it, or are just in denial.

There are no other power 5 schools with such a dense urban campus. 140 total acres. That is by far the least amount of land and it sits in the middle of PA's third most densely pack urban core after downtown Philly and downtown Pittsburgh.

It is never coming back. Time to move on....like 15 years ago. Lot's of people in denial is about the only thing you got right.

 

[CrazyPaco]

I just couldn't get my head wrapped around the thought of MN & SP doing that. Or Killer "B' #4. Nice people....let's hope they do a great job. Love the tape....good work. (No Dinocats, either!!)

The other shows are available to watch at http://www.pitttonight.com/. Lots of Pitt people on them.

Nordenberg would have definitely done something like that. You forget that the students named their recreation lounge in the union after him because he was so well liked. I doubt Pederson would have during his last several years, but he probably would have during his first stint.

 

[rpost3]

I really gotta ask you stadium people why you think this would benefit the football program so much, much less the university as a whole. Imagine what could be built in an area big enough to hold a football stadium. How about something faculty/staff/students/residents/consumers could use everyday.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

Besides the obvious stupidity and foolishness of building an on-campus stadium at Pitt, why would we do that so we can play in front of 35,000 - 40,000 fans for maybe 6 or 7 times a year? In its best days when we were winning 11 or 12 games a year, Pitt Stadium might get 50,000 against a name opponent or rival. Right now, Heinz was and still is the best option by a very large amount. I hate it as a venue to watch football, but it's the ONLY viable option available. There are no other possibilities that make sense to any sane person.

 

[NTOP]

The other shows are available to watch at http://www.pitttonight.com/. Lots of Pitt people on them.

Nordenberg would have definitely done something like that. You forget that the students named their recreation lounge in the union after him because he was so well liked. I doubt Pederson would have during his last several years, but he probably would have during his first stint.

I liked MN.....truly a nice man....but a bit reserved. SP was always a stiff.....only cared about the big donors, not the average fan. I disliked him from the first FanFest at the stadium. Pompous ass. He wouldn't let us out into traffic from the O'Hara lot one night after a BB game. Yes, I flipped him the bird.

 

[cbpitt2]

I really gotta ask you stadium people why you think this would benefit the football program so much, much less the university as a whole. Imagine what could be built in an area big enough to hold a football stadium. How about something faculty/staff/students/residents/consumers could use everyday.

Dude, seriously do you think these buildings gets used only six-seven times a year? They are used every fricking day. Heinz Field is used every day, offices, meetings, conferences, events. One ON a college campus it would be used even more so. How do you not comprehend that?

The Campus Crossroads Project is a chance to maximize the potential of one of the most recognizable and centrally located buildings on campus: Notre Dame Stadium. Our commitment to providing an unsurpassed undergraduate experience drives this plan to bring academics, athletics, and student life together.

More than 750,000 square feet of teaching, research, and performance space. Student life and recreation facilities. Cutting-edge digital media resources. An enhanced gameday experience.

Laboratories, classrooms and offices for the anthropology and psychology departments will occupy four levels of the nine-story building on the east side of the stadium, with one level devoted to a digital media center.

Space designed to enhance student development and formation will fill the first five levels of the nine-story building linked to the west side of the stadium.

“This new facility will provide exciting and much-needed space for innovative student programming and events,” said Erin Hoffmann Harding, vice president for student affairs. “It will improve our ability to meet the recreational needs of our entire campus, and integrate our career services offerings across the University for the benefit of both students and employers.”

Dude, no one would build a stadium with only seats. It would be used EVERY DAY. Kapisch?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Dude, seriously do you think these buildings gets used only six-seven times a year? They are used every fricking day. Heinz Field is used every day, offices, meetings, conferences, events. One ON a college campus it would be used even more so. How do you not comprehend that?

Because a building that houses offices and the like can be built in lots of different places. The fact that some people have built them right next to their football stadium doesn't change the fact of how often the actual stadium itself is used. If Pitt wants to build "More than 750,000 square feet of teaching, research, and performance space. Student life and recreation facilities. Cutting-edge digital media resources." they don't need a football stadium to do it, and in fact it would be much, much easier to do it without the football stadium attached.

 

[Revenge Of The Noise]

Once again...

IMPROVE THE FRIGGIN PRODUCT.

Improve it enough, and 70,000 seats wouldn't be enough. And nobody would care where it is.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Because a building that houses offices and the like can be built in lots of different places. The fact that some people have built them right next to their football stadium doesn't change the fact of how often the actual stadium itself is used. If Pitt wants to build "More than 750,000 square feet of teaching, research, and performance space. Student life and recreation facilities. Cutting-edge digital media resources." they don't need a football stadium to do it, and in fact it would be much, much easier to do it without the football stadium attached.

Exactly, especially considering the land and footprint issues of building in Oakland. This is why Pitt builds highrises and skyscrapers. They aren't building 3 and 4 story buildings like you see on other campuses. The Cathedral wasn't built to 42 stories just to make a statement, and Pitt didn't earn the name Skyscraper U. for building a bunch of quaint English cottages like a traditional Oxford-style quad. You don't see other schools build such tall buildings because there aren't land issue. There is a serious lack of sense by some.

Also, who will use a stadium for meetings, conferences, or events on a college campus when there is a more centrally located, more accessible, and larger competing venue 3 miles down the road?

Seriously, what event or meeting that requires that type of venue you get with a football stadium is going to select a stripped down 50K stadium in Oakland over venues at Heinz or the Convention Center? This is simple market research common sense. There is absolutely no need at this time.

 

[Delpanther]

What was definitely stupid was exchanging the space for a basketball arena, only to let the program go to hell...as it stands, it is likely to be one of the very worst in the country for a very long time now. Which will mean that big costly arena taking up priceless space will be tragically empty most game nights.

It was moronic, no other word, and Nordenberg deserves much of the blame for letting Dixon's final years collapse, but Gallagher finished the job with the Stallings fiasco. Frankly, Gallagher has some nerve talking publicly at all about sports right now...he should be hiding under his desk.

That said, the switch to Heinz was still the best alternative by far to dropping the program, which was a totally real likelihood if the situation hadn't miraculously come along. The program was dead in 1996, and the stadium was literally in ruins. NOTHING WAS GOING TO COME ALONG TO FIX THAT until the Heinz deal emerged.

The only disadvantage to the situation is that the admin won't throw in behind winning enough and as a result, 70,000 is too big. But winning would fix that. Winning ONE fluke game like Clemson? Not enough. People won't be convinced by that. But a division championship, a conference championship, a legitimate bowl (and WINNING it), a top 10 finish, a run to the playoff ... and a few repeats of that ... and those seats WILL Be filled.

And it wouldn't matter if the place was on campus, or the North Side, or in Southpointe, or Cranberry, or the Airport, or Stubenville (the Burb of the Burgh) or Greensburg (Pitt's only realistic chance for an 'on campus' stadium!) for that matter. People would scratch and claw their way there wherever it is.

Last week, the friggin Liberty Bridge was totally closed and it didn't stop Penguins fans from making it to PPG from the South Hills. BECAUSE THE TEAM IS GREAT, DEFENDING STANLEY CUP CHAMPS...AND THE GAME MEANT SOMETHING.

IMPROVE THE FRIGGIN PRODUCT.

How many fans were at the Pens game? 18,000....so what's your point?

 

[rpost3]

Dude, seriously do you think these buildings gets used only six-seven times a year? They are used every fricking day. Heinz Field is used every day, offices, meetings, conferences, events. One ON a college campus it would be used even more so. How do you not comprehend that?

The Campus Crossroads Project is a chance to maximize the potential of one of the most recognizable and centrally located buildings on campus: Notre Dame Stadium. Our commitment to providing an unsurpassed undergraduate experience drives this plan to bring academics, athletics, and student life together.

More than 750,000 square feet of teaching, research, and performance space. Student life and recreation facilities. Cutting-edge digital media resources. An enhanced gameday experience.

Laboratories, classrooms and offices for the anthropology and psychology departments will occupy four levels of the nine-story building on the east side of the stadium, with one level devoted to a digital media center.

Space designed to enhance student development and formation will fill the first five levels of the nine-story building linked to the west side of the stadium.

“This new facility will provide exciting and much-needed space for innovative student programming and events,” said Erin Hoffmann Harding, vice president for student affairs. “It will improve our ability to meet the recreational needs of our entire campus, and integrate our career services offerings across the University for the benefit of both students and employers.”

Dude, no one would build a stadium with only seats. It would be used EVERY DAY. Kapisch?

Might want to consider how to build that stuff without having it surround a gigantic wasteful donut hole in the middle of the most congested campus south of NYU.

 

[Delpanther]

Every time this stadium issue is raised the same close minded dim wits, most of whom were in some way wedded to Nordenberg or his incompetent admin. spew the same narrow and closed minded arguments for supporting one of the worst decisions the university has ever made. Same old, same old..... progress won't be stopped.

 

[Delpanther]

Might want to consider how to build that stuff without having it surround a gigantic wasteful donut hole in the middle of the most congested campus south of NYU.

Yea, good point....building the Pete where it's at was a stupid idea then and is still a stupid idea brain childed by an incompetent and myopic Pitt admin.

 

[rpost3]

Yea, good point....building the Pete where it's at was a stupid idea then and is still a stupid idea brain childed by an incompetent and myopic Pitt admin.

Won't get an argument for me there.
There were better uses for land that size.

 

[KanePA]

The Chancellor is one of those closed minded dim wits. For him to utter the narrative that it is only used 7-8 times a year should be extremely concerning to all of us. That proves that the chancellor is incapable of seeing the forest through the trees. Here are some of the other events that the stadium could hold.

Outdoor basketball game
Concerts
Graduation
Rugby, Lacrosse, Soccer matches
Hell, put low level boxing and MMA matches there.

Also, put classrooms, athletic offices, and a nice ball room thing in it like Heinz Field. How many Pitt grads gets married at the Chapel and look for a place for their reception? Tons...

 

[CrazyPaco]

The Chancellor is one of those closed minded dim wits. For him to utter the narrative that it is only used 7-8 times a year should be extremely concerning to all of us. That proves that the chancellor is incapable of seeing the forest through the trees. Here are some of the other events that the stadium could hold.

Outdoor basketball game
Concerts
Graduation
Rugby, Lacrosse, Soccer matches
Hell, put low level boxing and MMA matches there.

Also, put classrooms, athletic offices, and a nice ball room thing in it like Heinz Field. How many Pitt grads gets married at the Chapel and look for a place for their reception? Tons...

LOL, are you serious?!? That is hilarious.

None of those suggestions makes any money or sense. Graduation in Pittsburgh needs an indoor venue and actually costs money to stage. Concerts tours that need a stadium venue are the very biggest ones and aren't going to pick a smaller stripped down stadium crammed into Oakland with no parking and poor ingress/egress over Heinz. There are many wedding reception venues that are actually appropriate venues right across the street from Heinz Chapel like the University Club, Phipps, Soldiers & Sailors, the former Historical Society of Pittsburgh building, 20th Century Club, the foyer of the Carnegie Music Hall, and if it ever reopens, the PAA.

Outdoor basketball game? Rugby, lax, low level outdoor MMA or boxing? You can't be serious.

 

[rpost3]

The Chancellor is one of those closed minded dim wits. For him to utter the narrative that it is only used 7-8 times a year should be extremely concerning to all of us. That proves that the chancellor is incapable of seeing the forest through the trees. Here are some of the other events that the stadium could hold.

Outdoor basketball game
Concerts
Graduation
Rugby, Lacrosse, Soccer matches
Hell, put low level boxing and MMA matches there.

Also, put classrooms, athletic offices, and a nice ball room thing in it like Heinz Field. How many Pitt grads gets married at the Chapel and look for a place for their reception? Tons...

Mindboggling

The more the internet gives access to voices like this, the more I feel like Trebek on Celebrity Jeopardy.
Low-level MMA.
Lacrosse.
In a D1 football stadium.

Left out tractor pulling and interpretive dance.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Because a building that houses offices and the like can be built in lots of different places. The fact that some people have built them right next to their football stadium doesn't change the fact of how often the actual stadium itself is used. If Pitt wants to build "More than 750,000 square feet of teaching, research, and performance space. Student life and recreation facilities. Cutting-edge digital media resources." they don't need a football stadium to do it, and in fact it would be much, much easier to do it without the football stadium attached.

And how many times a year does Puskar Stadium or Beaver Stadium get used with events that break even or make money for their schools? Checking Stubhub for events scheduled for these venues, there is a Blake Shelton Concert at Beaver Stadium scheduled for July and that is it. And neither have a competing professional facility 3 miles away. How many concerts or other events did Pitt Stadium hold after the CLO moved to the Civic Arena and the Steelers moved to Three Rivers?

Now arenas get used. There are a ton more arena sized events than stadium events every year.

This idea that you can justify a stadium project because it will hold other events is ridiculous.

 

[Delpanther]

Wonder how people who think they're so smart know how moronic they sound and are in arguing that the 99.9 % of the div. I univeristies in the US who have their own FB stadium have it all wrong and Pitt's braintrust who tore down Pitt stadium had it right. Whoever could have predicted that FB would rule the roost in determining which conferences would court which schools and the amount of money that's dependent on playing big time FB...not Pitt's myopic, small time thinking administrators...that's for sure. And the final dust on this hasn't yet settled.

 

[KanePA]

LOL, are you serious?!? That is hilarious.

None of those suggestions makes any money or sense. Graduation in Pittsburgh needs an indoor venue and actually costs money to stage. Concerts tours that need a stadium venue are the very biggest ones and aren't going to pick a smaller stripped down stadium crammed into Oakland with no parking and poor ingress/egress over Heinz. There are many wedding reception venues that are actually appropriate venues right across the street from Heinz Chapel like the University Club, Phipps, Soldiers & Sailors, the former Historical Society of Pittsburgh building, 20th Century Club, the foyer of the Carnegie Music Hall, and if it ever reopens, the PAA.

Outdoor basketball game? Rugby, lax, low level outdoor MMA or boxing? You can't be serious.

Those were suggestions. And honestly, building a stadium is still worth it even if was used strictly for football. My graduation from HS and college were both outdoors and it was quite pleasant. They have rap concerts at the Pete...why not a football stadium? There aren't as many wedding venues as you may think. My fiancée and I are getting married in August and had a heck of a time finding a decent place in Oakland, so we decided on the LeMont. Didn't Pitt host an outdoor scrimmage to kick off the basketball season a bit ago? I have no idea why you think introducing rugby or lacrosse is so dumb? All the options I presented are both doable and make sense. And although you don't think they'll make money, you're likely wrong and would make Pitt a decent amount of money.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Those were suggestions. And honestly, building a stadium is still worth it even if was used strictly for football. My graduation from HS and college were both outdoors and it was quite pleasant. They have rap concerts at the Pete...why not a football stadium? There aren't as many wedding venues as you may think. My fiancée and I are getting married in August and had a heck of a time finding a decent place in Oakland, so we decided on the LeMont. Didn't Pitt host an outdoor scrimmage to kick off the basketball season a bit ago? I have no idea why you think introducing rugby or lacrosse is so dumb? All the options I presented are both doable and make sense. And although you don't think they'll make money, you're likely wrong and would make Pitt a decent amount of money.

My lord. Yes, the ideas that you listed, if you are serious, are that dumb and absolutely not doable and make absolute no sense. You can't be for real.

I'd be happy to go through each and explain why it is implausible or a money loser, but if you need an explanation about why Pitt can't hold an outdoor basketball game in a football stadium, or why arena shows don't just get plopped into 50K seat stadiums, or why a rugby or lax game wouldn't make money, I probably can't help you on why a half billion dollar project (at least) on an urban campus bursting at the seams of its 140 acres isn't a priority for a university or an athletic department at the bottom of revenue generation among the P5 schools when it uses a nicer facility than it would ever be able to build itself three miles down the road.

 

[pitt-girl]

IF an on campus stadium construction could/would be completely controlled by the University, where's the available real estate? But anyone who thinks this is the biggest hurdle are deluding themselves. I have a good friend who was the previous CEO of Echo Corp (Giant Eagle's real estate division). I asked him once if he thought this could ever happen in Oakland. He literally burst out laughing. The demands of the city would almost outweigh all the other impossible hurdles that are out there right now just with physical logistics.

Pitt can't even get a few slum lord's to give up their homes in South Oakland for more dorm/off campus development! That's a mere fraction of the land needed for a stadium and parking.

Ignoring the ASTRONOMICAL costs (anyone here ponying up a half a billion dollars?), it's practically a non-starter with the residents of Oakland. As someone pointed out above, we can't even get the city to agree to shut 300' of roadway in front of the Cathedral for goodness sakes.

We have a perfectly good stadium 3 miles away. Move on.

 

[RaleighPittFan]

IF an on campus stadium construction could/would be completely controlled by the University, where's the available real estate? But anyone who thinks this is the biggest hurdle are deluding themselves. I have a good friend who was the previous CEO of Echo Corp (Giant Eagle's real estate division). I asked him once if he thought this could ever happen in Oakland. He literally burst out laughing. The demands of the city would almost outweigh all the other impossible hurdles that are out there right now just with physical logistics.

Pitt can't even get a few slum lord's to give up their homes in South Oakland for more dorm/off campus development! That's a mere fraction of the land needed for a stadium and parking.

Ignoring the ASTRONOMICAL costs (anyone here ponying up a half a billion dollars?), it's practically a non-starter with the residents of Oakland. As someone pointed out above, we can't even get the city to agree to shut 300' of roadway in front of the Cathedral for goodness sakes.

We have a perfectly good stadium 3 miles away. Move on.

Where's the community college teacher from Philly who made a web site (with MS-Paint illustrations, no less) to tell everyone how stupid he is for not understanding urban planning?

Good times.

 

[ERICCARTMAN]

The crime is that in the late 90's, PITT had very viable plans to do a complete renovation of PITT Stadium and connect a new convocation center directly behind it. A significant amount of state funding for the convocation center portion already existed. Those same state funds also provided funding for both the PSU and Temple convocation centers.

At the same time all of this was going on, the Pirates were threatening to leave without a new stadium. The Steelers said what about us? The Steelers also wanted a new stadium in lieu of a renovated 3 rivers.

At the end, Pittsburgh and Philly each got two new stadiums, while the Panthers and the Owls became tenants.

 

[pitt-girl]

The crime is that in the late 90's, PITT had very viable plans to do a complete renovation of PITT Stadium and connect a new convocation center directly behind it. A significant amount of state funding for the convocation center portion already existed. Those same state funds also provided funding for both the PSU and Temple convocation centers.

At the same time all of this was going on, the Pirates were threatening to leave without a new stadium. The Steelers said what about us? The Steelers also wanted a new stadium in lieu of a renovated 3 rivers.

At the end, Pittsburgh and Philly each got two new stadiums, while the Panthers and the Owls became tenants.

You do understand the difference between professional sports teams owner's and a University, right? In that scenario I am not surprised at all with the results. And in the example of Pitt, even though UPMC is the region's leading employer, the city of Pittsburgh goes out of their way to hinder anything related to Pitt. Makes zero sense, but it's the reality.

As you said there was a plan out there to renovate Pitt Stadium. It didn't happen. That's why this whole argument is moot. That land is GONE. The University's academic needs at this point far outweigh building a stadium when we have a perfectly fine one 3 MILES AWAY.