Pitt Women vs WF

[Chescat]

Ok, 15 minutes before game time, and I'm predicting a Pitt win
tonight. Ok, I know, I know.....I'm not really going out on a limb
since WF ain't won a league game yet. But then again, earlier
in the year most of us (myself included) thought we wouldn't
win even one ACC game. We've got two so far, let's see if we
can get a third tonight. I say, YES!

 

[MajorMajors]

Not looking good. Pitt playing like crap; WF shooting well.

Pitt down 35-24 at the half.

Go Pitt.

 

[Chescat]

Not looking good. Pitt playing like crap; WF shooting well.

Pitt down 35-24 at the half.

Go Pitt.

They're looking as bad as my prediction.

 

[mike10003]

Wake Forest has had open shots all night. Pretty terrible showing by Verdi’s team.

 

[Parkview57]

They're looking as bad as my prediction.

Dang, I was hoping for the ole "tit for tat" this week.

 

[Chescat]

Wake Forest has had open shots all night. Pretty terrible showing by Verdi’s team.

Very True. Skip passes over the top repeatedly. Also there
were times the Pitt defensive player just stood there and
didn't challenge the three.
WF was far better than we were tonight, but they're not a
talented team by any measure. They outplayed us all game
long. We got close a number of times and then shot ourselves
in the foot and let them extend the lead. I see this game as a loss
that we should have won.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Given the level of competition, that may be the worst game we've played all season. You can easily see why Wake hadn't won an ACC game before tonight. They are simply god-awful. And for most of the night we weren't even competitive.

 

[smitty464]

Possible rematch in ACC tourney

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Possible rematch in ACC tourney

No. They are going to finish last and next to last, which means that most likely Wake is playing whomever finishes 10th and we are playing whomever finishes 11th.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

If the season ended today we would be playing Virginia and Wake would be playing Georgia Tech.

 

[MajorMajors]

Our guard play is atrocious. I had the feeling - hard as it may be to believe - that this Pitt team thought they were going to easily beat WF. Course WF was 0-14, so somewhat understandable.

In the first quarter, Malcolm tried 3 entry passes and all three were stolen. Those passes and Marley’s ill-advised passes put Pitt in a big hole.

And Battle had had a nice stat lines in a couple of games, so I was anxious to see her development. Well tonight she was pretty much invisible.

The whole night was disappointing (except of course for the play of Liatu King going against double teams)…

Go Pitt.

 

[Garyzimmer]

Malcolm’s passes inside were because the coach is telling them to get it inside no matter what. The one ball she threw to a big literally went right through her hands. He yelled at the bigs because they don’t go to the ball. The one time she didn’t throw it in he yelled at her. Some turnovers are definitely the players fault but some are the person they are throwing too.
I really wish our players when double teamed would kick to the outside like Wake did just to get some movement of the ball

 

[Garyzimmer]

Our guard play is atrocious. I had the feeling - hard as it may be to believe - that this Pitt team thought they were going to easily beat WF. Course WF was 0-14, so somewhat understandable.

In the first quarter, Malcolm tried 3 entry passes and all three were stolen. Those passes and Marley’s ill-advised passes put Pitt in a big hole.

And Battle had had a nice stat lines in a couple of games, so I was anxious to see her development. Well tonight she was pretty much invisible.

The whole night was disappointing (except of course for the play of Liatu King going against double teams)…

Go Pitt.

And you mentioned those passes were in the first quarter and they were the cause of the big hole. We were only down by 4 so I don’t think those and Marleys passes were the cause of the “big hole”

 

[Chescat]

And you mentioned those passes were in the first quarter and they were the cause of the big hole. We were only down by 4 so I don’t think those and Marleys passes were the cause of the “big hole”

Well of course they weren't the only reason for the big hole,
but those early passes which ended up being TO's were a big
reason for our dismal first Qtr lack of scoring. When you shoot
3-12 (25%) on your 3's for the whole game, while WF goes
10-22 (45%), youre in big trouble sccoring wise.

As for our passes inside, it's timing. You have to know WHEN
to attempt that pass, and coming to meet the ball by the inside
player is just as important.. Malcolm is terrible at this and of course
the inside player is at fault also. Not to mention the fact that we've
been scouted and WF knew exactly what we're trying to do. No
wonder Verdi is pulling out the few hairs he has left on his
head.

Also, once again the Assist/TO ratio of 12/16 is the opposite
of what it should be. Once again the ratio for the opposition
16/12, while not great, is a repeat of every game. WF was ready
for this game, we were not IMO. They had us scouted and
forced us into a lousy performance on both ends of the floor.
Credit to the WF coach and her players. Despite this, they're
not a talented team. IMO we shoulda won this game, not lose
by 15 pts.

 

[Garyzimmer]

When you have a coach screening in your ear to pass the ball inside no matter what timing goes out the window. And in the second half it looked like he was running a zone offense against a man defense. Some of this is on the coach. He has no movement there is never an open outside shot or picks for girls to drive. They are setting picks well outside the 3 point line that every school knows they do and the other team just hedges. It is the same play every time

 

[Garyzimmer]

Well of course they weren't the only reason for the big hole,
but those early passes which ended up being TO's were a big
reason for our dismal first Qtr lack of scoring. When you shoot
3-12 (25%) on your 3's for the whole game, while WF goes
10-22 (45%), youre in big trouble sccoring wise.

As for our passes inside, it's timing. You have to know WHEN
to attempt that pass, and coming to meet the ball by the inside
player is just as important.. Malcolm is terrible at this and of course
the inside player is at fault also. Not to mention the fact that we've
been scouted and WF knew exactly what we're trying to do. No
wonder Verdi is pulling out the few hairs he has left on his
head.

Also, once again the Assist/TO ratio of 12/16 is the opposite
of what it should be. Once again the ratio for the opposition
16/12, while not great, is a repeat of every game. WF was ready
for this game, we were not IMO. They had us scouted and
forced us into a lousy performance on both ends of the floor.
Credit to the WF coach and her players. Despite this, they're
not a talented team. IMO we shoulda won this game, not lose
by 15 pts.

And I don’t know how many games you have seen but from watching every game Malcolm is one of the few who can get it inside from the wing so calling her terrible is a little bit much

 

[MajorMajors]

My biggest disappointment with Coach Verdi is that he apparently hasn’t made it a priority to get Malcolm catch-and-shoot opportunities from three. I think she could be one of the best catch-and-shoot 3- point shooters in the league. Our opponents put a guard out on her and that’s pretty much that.

We rarely see a drive and kick to Malcolm. Her lone 3-pointer last night came when Liatu was being double-teamed and found Malcolm in the corner.

Coach Verdi talked after the game about all the possessions Pitt lost in the first quarter. He exaggerated the number, but between turnovers and moving-screen calls, there were at least eight lost possessions in the first quarter.

Go Pitt.

 

[Chescat]

And I don’t know how many games you have seen but from watching every game Malcolm is one of the few who can get it inside from the wing so calling her terrible is a little bit much

I've seen just about every game this year (TV). I also watched her all
last season. I've recently posted that I've seen improvement in her game.
With all that said, She's slow afoot, and worse than that she's not quick
and has no floor game. She is a pure shooter, and good at it when she's
standing still and open. She's shooting 31% on her threes, not great for
a player who is supposed to be the team's outside threat. Bottom line
there, she can't create. Last night we saw WF's freshman guard hit
5-5 on her threes. They got her open, unfortunately for us, Malcolm is
easily guarded and can't create. Occassionally she makes a circuitous
route to the hoop and gets fouled attempting a layup. that's a plus.

I realize she's a local and fans want to see a WPIAL product do well. So
do I, but being objective shes struggling in the ACC against superior
talent. She's do much better if she were at an A-10 type school. Just
my two cents, you don't have to agree.

 

[Chescat]

My biggest disappointment with Coach Verdi is that he apparently hasn’t made it a priority to get Malcolm catch-and-shoot opportunities from three. I think she could be one of the best catch-and-shoot 3- point shooters in the league. Our opponents put a guard out on her and that’s pretty much that.

We rarely see a drive and kick to Malcolm. Her lone 3-pointer last night came when Liatu was being double-teamed and found Malcolm in the corner.

Coach Verdi talked after the game about all the possessions Pitt lost in the first quarter. He exaggerated the number, but between turnovers and moving-screen calls, there were at least eight lost possessions in the first quarter.

Go Pitt.

I think Verdi is trying to get her open, but as you said "opponents put a guard
on her and that's pretty much that." I agree, but the problem is Malcolm can't
do much about it given her floor game limitations and her lack of quickness. I
can't believe how long Verdi kept her in the game given her very poor start,
TO's and nothing positive added.

As far as "rareley seeng a drive and kick to Malcolm"....just watch our offensive sets.
It doesn't lend itself to what you're suggesting. WF, spread the floor, didn't rely on
hand off's to the guards as we do. They left an open shooter on weak side of the floor
and repeatedly connected on skip passes to an open shooter who hit the three, 10-22
with Katie Deeble at 100%, 5-5. They clearly had us scouted; Good job by their coach.

As for Coach Verdi, maybe post game eaggeration as you said. He's clearly frustrated
and my guess is after last night's performance, pretty angry.

 

[Garyzimmer]

I think Verdi is trying to get her open, but as you said "opponents put a guard
on her and that's pretty much that." I agree, but the problem is Malcolm can't
do much about it given her floor game limitations and her lack of quickness. I
can't believe how long Verdi kept her in the game given her very poor start,
TO's and nothing positive added.

As far as "rareley seeng a drive and kick to Malcolm"....just watch our offensive sets.
It doesn't lend itself to what you're suggesting. WF, spread the floor, didn't rely on
hand off's to the guards as we do. They left an open shooter on weak side of the floor
and repeatedly connected on skip passes to an open shooter who hit the three, 10-22
with Katie Deeble at 100%, 5-5. They clearly had us scouted; Good job by their coach.

As for Coach Verdi, maybe post game eaggeration as you said. He's clearly frustrated
and my guess is after last night's performance, pretty angry.

Well we can disagree on Malcolm’s contribution. She maybe not be the quickest or flashy or most athletic but if you look at her she is telling girls on her team where to go on offense and literally pushing her own teammates where to be on defense. Your quickness comment always makes me laugh a little. She is quick enough to be one of the only ones to get to the rim and she plays good defense. Knows how to force baseline for the tramp underneath. You don’t have to be the quickest to know how to be a good Bball player. Look how quick last years team was and they were scattered. He keeps her in because she does the right things. She runs through his plays (to a fault) doesn’t lose her girl is the safety on defense and tells her own teammates where to be.
And Verdi does nothing to get her open. Not one ball screen flare screen. He makes her sit in the corner half the time just to play decoy. She spends so much time running around setting picks for other girls. When she does catch the ball on the wing she literally has to wait for someone to set a pick for her most of the times she has to tell them to do it by pointing to set the pick. There is never a kick out to her. And we rely on hand offs because that is the play.
There is a reason she was recruited so highly and a top 100 he just needs to use her better.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

there is never an open outside shot

I disagree with that. There are plenty of times that Pitt players could take an open three. The problem is that they know they can't make them, so they don't shoot them. And because their opponent's know that they can't make them and aren't going to shoot them, that's why they are open in the first place.

Teams don't guard Pitt's players to the line because generally speaking teams are happy if players like Washenitz and Timmerson and Jordan and Hutcherson shoot a three. Because they aren't going to make them. The highest three point shooting percentage on the team is Battle at 35.3%. There isn't even someone on the team who is something like 2-5 or 3-7 or something like that. Your second best percentage is Malcolm at 31.0%. As a team Pitt shoots them at 27.9%.

Teams are begging Pitt's players to shoot threes. Because none of them are any good at it. And every three taken is one less possession that Liatu King is taking a shot.

 

[Garyzimmer]

Wow. Your your analysis is something. You mean to tell me Malcolm thinks she can’t make a three. She was 42% in high school shooting from the logo at Pitt in WPIAL championships. Was 40% last year with the limited mins she had. This year she is running into a slump because she isn’t taking volume shots. They aren’t shooting threes because they think they can’t make them it is because they have to create their own shot at the three. I am not sure which games you are watching but you are definitely wrong. And if you think we will win with King shooting the ball every time even with 3 people on her you know nothing about basketball.
And teams do guard the 3. That’s why the hedge every screen.
And if they don’t shoot a three it is because they have a coach that makes them pound the ball in no matter what.
but I am sure you are right every time one of these girls don’t take an open shot it is because they know they can’t make it.
That is just a ridiculous statement

 

[Chescat]

Well we can disagree on Malcolm’s contribution. She maybe not be the quickest or flashy or most athletic but if you look at her she is telling girls on her team where to go on offense and literally pushing her own teammates where to be on defense. Your quickness comment always makes me laugh a little. She is quick enough to be one of the only ones to get to the rim and she plays good defense. Knows how to force baseline for the tramp underneath. You don’t have to be the quickest to know how to be a good Bball player.

Yes, we can disagree, and we do. "She's quick enogh to be one of the
only ones to get to the rim" What? She's getting there because 1. the
others aren't good enough. 2. She sees an opening on occasion and takes
it, because she knows the game well enough to see it. It's often a
round about, circuitous route. 3. It sure ain't quickness that's gretting
her there.

Her defense as nothing to do with quickness, in fact it's
down right mechanical most of the time. As far as knowing what to
do, yes she's that. Her game is cerebral and mechanical. Sorry but I'll
take quickness and instinctiveness in bball any day over cerebral and
mechanical. By the way the ACC is full of guards who are not only
quick and instinctive, but they're also cerebral and know what to do.

Also, I don't give two hoots about what she did in h.s. I'm judging her by
what I've seen in her two years here. She has shown some flashes, and I've
praised her on here. My bottom line sense is she's not a starting ACC level
player. Drop down a level or two where she's not facing this level of talent
and I think we'd see a much better player.

 

[Garyzimmer]

Your 1,2,and 3 doesn’t even make sense. You must be such an expert that you can “judge” a player. No offense but I am going to trust in what D1 coaches, ESPN and Wooden camp evaluators saw in her.
So yes we do disagree and that is ok because I am sure she has better things to worry about than what you or I have said.

 

[Chescat]

1,2, and 3 make perfect sense to me. My judgement is of course
nothing more than an opinion. You seem to forget that early on in
this thread, I said this is "just my two cents." Pretty clear to me
that "just my two cents" is how I see it. Doesn't mean I'm right
and you're wrong. You have your "two cents," I have mine. My
"two cents" reflects me, not anyone else. That's what happens
on a message board. You chose to argue with my two cents.
I'm ok with that, and actually expect to hear a disagreement if
there are some. No biggie, this a message board.

 

[Garyzimmer]

You are right we can disagree and this is a message board that people can share ideas and thoughts. I just don’t understand why some people use this board to tear players down. Call them wrecking balls, not good enough, liabilities, terrible etc….
It is not a good place to just talk basketball for me. I do not want to add to the negativity that I am sure these players feel already.
Words have meaning and consequences and some words can’t be taken back. These are just kids playing a sport that they love.

And being a local person I hope Malcolm leaves Pitt and finds a better program and coach to play for. No matter what conference it is in. There are lower conferences that are better than Pitt anyway. And will continue to be better. Like Duquesne if she wants to stay close to home.

 

[Chescat]

You are right we can disagree and this is a message board that people can share ideas and thoughts. I just don’t understand why some people use this board to tear players down. Call them wrecking balls, not good enough, liabilities, terrible etc….
It is not a good place to just talk basketball for me. I do not want to add to the negativity that I am sure these players feel already.
Words have meaning and consequences and some words can’t be taken back. These are just kids playing a sport that they love.

And being a local person I hope Malcolm leaves Pitt and finds a better program and coach to play for. No matter what conference it is in. There are lower conferences that are better than Pitt anyway. And will continue to be better. Like Duquesne if she wants to stay close to home.i also

Yes I did say that Marley played like a "wrecking ball." Of course you left out that
I also said she was a very good athlete and was agressive. I also said that an athlete
as good as she is, would hopefully develop a shot in the offseason. That is showing both
the good and the bad. I don't see that as a one sided tearing down of a player. Sorry,
dude, but you're cherry picking what you want, and leaving out the other. By the way,
like you I also hope Malcolm finds another school if she wants. A school more matching
to her abilities. She is a good bball player, just not an ACC caliber player. Similar to all
the other pitt young women with the exception of King.

 

[Garyzimmer]

Dude, you are very good talking out of both sides of your mouth. You say you build these girls up but the words you use do not do that. You think as long as you say something remotely positive the negative is ok.
Dude, even when they won against VA you said yea they won but you could help yourself you had to spend the majority of your post exposing the negative. Someone even called you out on it and you said but I did say it was a nice win.
Dude, I haven’t heard anyone on here say that King was an ACC player until this year and she is a senior playing with mostly underclassman
And dude, you think when players go to a lower level school that is a knock to their abilities. Maybe they want to go because a lot of these lower level teams can beat power 5 schools. So if Malcolm does decide to go to a lower level it is not because if her ability she probably just wants to win (and stay close to home)
Some people just look for the negative all the time and that is ok I choose not too. I thought message boards were to bounce ideas and debate strategies. Never did I want to judge player’s abilities
They are where they are for a reason they are all athletes and athletic. We have no idea what they are going through. And I have no idea if you were a high level D1 athlete before but unless you are in that exact locker room and in their practices and listening to what that coach is saying and wanting them to do you have no idea what they are going through.

 

[Chescat]

Long explanation, but we clearly see things diffferently. You have your opinon, I have
mine. Let's leave it at that. Enjoy your day.

 

[Parkview57]

Enjoy your day

Exactly.

I may add, if you are a parent or an athlete, best advice is to stay off these boards.

P.S. You will read the truth as it looks to people with no connection to you.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

This team is 2-13 in the ACC this season, after a 3-15 season last year, and a 2-16 season the year before, and 3-12 the year before that, and 1-17 the year before that, and 2-14 the year before that, and, well, you get the idea, and the problem here is that the fans who attend and watch the games are too negative.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

 

[Garyzimmer]

Exactly.

I may add, if you are a parent or an athlete, best advice is to stay off these boards.

P.S. You will read the truth as it looks to people with no connection to you.

Not a parent or an athlete but best advice I heard all day. Will stay off board and it is amazing how triggered everyone got when someone says something negative about them.

 

[Garyzimmer]

This team is 2-13 in the ACC this season, after a 3-15 season last year, and a 2-16 season the year before, and 3-12 the year before that, and 1-17 the year before that, and 2-14 the year before that, and, well, you get the idea, and the problem here is that the fans who attend and watch the games are too negative.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

This team is 2-13 in the ACC this season, after a 3-15 season last year, and a 2-16 season the year before, and 3-12 the year before that, and 1-17 the year before that, and 2-14 the year before that, and, well, you get the idea, and the problem here is that the fans who attend and watch the games are too negative.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

No one needs “fans” like you

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Not a parent or an athlete but best advice I heard all day. Will stay off board and it is amazing how triggered everyone got when someone says something negative about them.

Similarly, it's amazing that someone could get so triggered when someone points out that the players on a really bad basketball team aren't actually playing very well.

 

[Parkview57]

And being a local person I hope Malcolm leaves Pitt and finds a better program and coach to play for

No one needs “fans” like you

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

No one needs “fans” like you

Fans like me actually attend the games and root for the teams and discuss the team on the internet.

In point of fact, Pitt women's basketball could use a lot more fans like me. Thousands of them, in fact.

 

[Garyzimmer]

Similarly, it's amazing that someone could get so triggered when someone points out that the players on a really bad basketball team aren't actually playing very well.

It is just not that you are saying they are not playing well you say they are terrible a liability etc. there is a difference.
I just don’t think I have the credit oaks to judge like that. Maybe I am wrong and you do. And as an actual parent of girls that play a sport(not on this team) I would never criticize another persons son or daughter it is not my thing.
Didn’t know that is what this board was for.

 

[Chescat]

Fans like me actually attend the games and root for the teams and discuss the team on the internet.

In pot of fact, Pitt women's basketball could use a lot more fans like me. Thousands of them, in fact.

Exactly. I feel the way you do,. Unfortunately I live nowhere near Pittsbugh, and I have
to watch the games on tv, A lot of us here root for all Pitt's teams and discuss what we
see on this message board. Being realistic, it also includes commenting on both the
good and the bad.

 

[mike10003]

I attend every home game and have no problem saying that most of the players over the last 5-10 years have been terrible, not ACC level, etc. I’m sure they are good people and whatever, but basketball is what happens on the court. The record shows that, as Joe stated. So this is weirdly aggressive from you gary, lol.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Didn’t know that is what this board was for.

This board is for talking about the team and the games. If you watch this team play, if you have watched this team play for the last, what, decade, and you can't or won't say anything bad at all then your opinion is worthless. Either because you have no idea what you are talking about or because you do, but you can't bring yourself to say the truth.

I mean if someone makes a bad pass, they made a bad pass whether you or I or anyone else says it. It someone misses a shot, they missed a shot whether you or I or anyone else says it. If they play poorly, they played poorly whether you or I or anyone else says it. You simply cannot watch this team play on a regular basis and not think that they are anything other than a bad basketball team.

That doesn't mean that any of them are bad people. That doesn't mean that any of them aren't trying. Heck several of us have commented on more than one occasion that these women are busting their butts out there, even when they are completely overmatched. It just means that they aren't a good basketball team, and that some of the players on the team are in over their heads.

If that wasn't true their record would be a lot better than what it is.