Reality Check

[LGP1989]

It is now January, we are 10-5, and ranked around 50 in the major metrics.

Let's look at a recap of the season so far:

1. We lost nearly all of our team leadership (namely Cummings and Burton) as well as one of the best 6th men in CBB (Sibande).
2. We lost our (apparent) starting Point Guard.
3. We lost an immediate impact big man for the year. One who many thought would push Federiko and the DG's development, at minimum.
4. Comparatively last year, our record is currently worse, but metrics sitting in a very similar range.

What exactly do we have to complain about? If I were given a blind resume of a team and told it's entire backcourt are Freshman, I'd honestly expect much worse than our current state. Barring major defections in the off-season, we look in good position for growth.

Coming off JD2 and Stallings, Capel has us in the exact spot a program like Pitt should expect to be, NIT/borderline NCAAT quality in back to back seasons. A lot of ball left to be played, but the expectation would be that our youth continues to improve. I post this solely as a counterpoint to our normal doom and gloom cycle.

 

[Chairman Moe]

Careful; there are a lot of pessimists here that will try to have you believe otherwise. 😀🤪

 

[Pittnerski]

They’re not going to get the quantity of quality wins to make the tournament bc the ACC

 

[TD_6082]

It is now January, we are 10-5, and ranked around 50 in the major metrics.

Let's look at a recap of the season so far:

1. We lost nearly all of our team leadership (namely Cummings and Burton) as well as one of the best 6th men in CBB (Sibande).
2. We lost our (apparent) starting Point Guard.
3. We lost an immediate impact big man for the year. One who many thought would push Federiko and the DG's development, at minimum.
4. Comparatively last year, our record is currently worse, but metrics sitting in a very similar range.

What exactly do we have to complain about? If I were given a blind resume of a team and told it's entire backcourt are Freshman, I'd honestly expect much worse than our current state. Barring major defections in the off-season, we look in good position for growth.

Coming off JD2 and Stallings, Capel has us in the exact spot a program like Pitt should expect to be, NIT/borderline NCAAT quality in back to back seasons. A lot of ball left to be played, but the expectation would be that our youth continues to improve. I post this solely as a counterpoint to our normal doom and gloom cycle.

Most fans didn't like Jamie Dixon post-2011 results.

Everyone hated the Stallings hire because his Vandy track record was a relative low seed NCAA tournament bid every 2 to 3 years. -combined with early exits.

There is no way anyone should expect most fans to feel good about what Capel has produced to this point.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

What exactly do we have to complain about?

That the program isnt a Final Four contendor like Howland/Dixon I. If we cant compete for Final Fours, Yinzers want nothing to do with Pitt hoops. Capel 2=Dixon 2 but thats not good enough for yinzers.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

That the program isnt a Final Four contendor like Howland/Dixon I. If we cant compete for Final Fours, Yinzers want nothing to do with Pitt hoops. Capel 2=Dixon 2 but thats not good enough for yinzers.

Don't you criticize the football program for being a 7-5 program? It seems like that's about where we're settling in as a basketball program.

 

[LGP1989]

That the program isnt a Final Four contendor like Howland/Dixon I. If we cant compete for Final Fours, Yinzers want nothing to do with Pitt hoops. Capel 2=Dixon 2 but thats not good enough for yinzers.

I hate to break this to Pitt fans, but unless someone on this board is an alum of the class of '41, when has this ever been reality?

"Competing for Final Fours" implies we made one. Competing for conference top 5/tournament wins (which again, Capel got 1.5 last year) is our level.

 

[LGP1989]

Don't you criticize the football program for being a 7-5 program? It seems like that's about where we're settling in as a basketball program.

Has Pitt ever had the financial investment from alumni to even make this comparison? Apples to apples, it's appropriate to complain when football does poorly, it's always been major focus of our AD. The work HCJC has done to upgrade the financial focus of the program is starting to finally show and the fan base rabidly complains. We had bottom 5 facilities and donations for CBB in the ACC prior to Capel, and looking at the last 3 recruiting cycles with NIL (furthermore his classes as a whole), we are closing the gap.

 

[TD_6082]

That the program isnt a Final Four contendor like Howland/Dixon I. If we cant compete for Final Fours, Yinzers want nothing to do with Pitt hoops. Capel 2=Dixon 2 but thats not good enough for yinzers.

Hyperbole.

Pitt is 68-118 in conference play since joining the ACC.

Pitt has been to the NCAA TOURNAMENT round of 32 TWICE since 2011. Both times they suffered a blowout loss.

Pitt basketball has been a bad product since Nasir Robinson fouled Matt Howard. Period.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Hyperbole.

Pitt is 68-118 in conference play since joining the ACC.

Pitt has been to the NCAA TOURNAMENT round of 32 TWICE since 2011. Both times they suffered a blowout loss.

Pitt basketball has been a bad product since Nasir Robinson fouled Matt Howard. Period.

Dixon 2 and Capel 2 are bubble programs.

The 6 years of Stallings/Capel 1 were bad.

 

[TD_6082]

Dixon 2 and Capel 2 are bubble programs.

The 6 years of Stallings/Capel 1 were bad.

Bubble programs are bad programs.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Bubble programs are bad programs.

For a Duke or UNC , but not for a school like Pitt .

The eggheads at Pitt are willing to do whatever’s necessary to be average in both Fb and Bb , but they’ve never shown a willingness to win at all costs and until they do bubble isn’t all bad .

 

[TD_6082]

For a Duke or UNC , but not for a school like Pitt .

The eggheads at Pitt are willing to do whatever’s necessary to be average in both Fb and Bb , but they’ve never shown a willingness to win at all costs and until they do bubble isn’t all bad .

Football is a totally different animal than college basketball.

But bubble basketball isn't acceptable at football schools that don't even care that much about basketball.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Football is a totally different animal than college basketball.

But bubble basketball isn't acceptable at football schools that don't even care that much about basketball.

Then there’s a lot of unacceptable programs out there .

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

Since 1973 we’ve made the…..
NCAA Tournament- 23 times
NIT - 8 times
CBI - 1 time

Covid Year - No Tournament
This Year - TBD

There’s no reason why Pitt shouldn’t make a Tournament 3 out of 5 years on average.

 

[LGP1989]

Then there’s a lot of unacceptable programs out there .

People here were just spoiled by Howland and Dixon 1. The average team doesn't make the tournament every year, certainly not at the high seed.

Most schools that focus heavily on Football don't care an ounce what basketball does. Even those that do only occasionally have runs and aren't very consistently above the bubble.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Bubble programs are bad programs.

I used to think that. Dixon 2 and Capel 2 are acceptable. In 10 years, Pitt should probably go to 5 NCAAs and 3 NITs. If you combine Dixon 2 and Capel 2 (including this year which will be NIT), that 4 NCAATs, 2 NITs in 7 years. So right on track

 

[TD_6082]

People here were just spoiled by Howland and Dixon 1. The average team doesn't make the tournament every year, certainly not at the high seed.

Most schools that focus heavily on Football don't care an ounce what basketball does. Even those that do only occasionally have runs and aren't very consistently above the bubble.

They care enough to know that bubble basketball is bad basketball.

Mark Gottfried
Avery Johnson
Stan Heath
Cuonzo Martin
John Pelphrey
Ben Howland
Jerry Green
Anthony Grant
Mark Fox
John Brady
Frank Martin
Andy Kennedy
Billy Kennedy

All of those coaches were fired at traditional football schools in the SEC. Two of them, Frank Martin & John Brady took a team to the Final Four.

One of them, Jerry Green, made the NCAA Tournament every single year he was employed. (He was dumped after his 4th straight year to the Big Dance)

All were fired for the same reason, - a mostly inconsistent, mediocre, product that was incapable of making a deep tourney run most years and rarely competed for conference championships. (Brady won 2 SEC Championships, Green & Gottfried won one conference title each). Andy Kennedy won a SEC Tournament title.

With the exception of a few schools, (schools like Northwestern, Vanderbilt) bubble basketball should never be acceptable long term.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

They care enough to know that bubble basketball is bad basketball.

Mark Gottfried
Avery Johnson
Stan Heath
Cuonzo Martin
John Pelphrey
Ben Howland
Jerry Green
Anthony Grant
Mark Fox
John Brady
Frank Martin
Andy Kennedy
Billy Kennedy

All of those coaches were fired at traditional football schools in the SEC. Two of them, Frank Martin & John Brady took a team to the Final Four.

One of them, Jerry Green, made the NCAA Tournament every single year he was employed. (He was dumped after his 4th straight year to the Big Dance)

All were fired for the same reason, - a mostly inconsistent, mediocre, product that was incapable of making a deep tourney run most years and rarely competed for conference championships. (Brady won 2 SEC Championships, Green & Gottfried won one conference title each). Andy Kennedy won a SEC Tournament title.

With the exception of a few schools, (schools like Northwestern, Vanderbilt) bubble basketball should never be acceptable long term.

A lot of good coaches in your list , which shows you that becoming an annual tournament team isn’t all that easy .

 

[Pittisit4me]

A lot of good coaches in your list , which shows you that becoming an annual tournament team isn’t all that easy .

I couldn't agree more. This fan base was warped by the success of Howland / Dixon. I can no longer defend Capel, he is a recruiter, not a coach. That said, whoever we bring in after Capel, is not going to restore what we had with Howland/Dixon. We are going to have to accept that tournament appearances are not a right because it says Pitt on the uniform. Until you accept it, your going to be complaining and angry quite alot.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

I couldn't agree more. This fan base was warped by the success of Howland / Dixon. I can no longer defend Capel, he is a recruiter, not a coach. That said, whoever we bring in after Capel, is not going to restore what we had with Howland/Dixon. We are going to have to accept that tournament appearances are not a right because it says Pitt on the uniform. Until you accept it, your going to be complaining and angry quite alot.

I don't even know how good of a recruiter he is, from the looks of it. He recruited one good player who is demonstrating how good he really is....Jaland Lowe. The rest, including Bub, haven't shown anything consistently or at all. And Jaland will probably be gone after this year with a payday to another team that is a contender. I'm not counting portal players. This is limited to real recruiting of high school players. Portals are just free agents who go after the most money.

It's been proven many times that Capel is a very poor coach.

 

[LGP1989]

Ye of such little faith, The ACC Coach of the Year can't coach. Or, maybe it takes time for a freshman backcourt to grow and understand the pace and dynamics of the college game.

 

[Vader_Storm]

Ye of such little faith, The ACC Coach of the Year can't coach. Or, maybe it takes time for a freshman backcourt to grow and understand the pace and dynamics of the college game.

There has been a lot that has broken right to get this team back on track.

Jaland Lowe turning it on and flipping the switch.

Blake Hinson breaking out of that nasty shooting slump.

Fede is now playing the game like he is betting on Pitt to win. Fede has gone from a lazy uninterested Terell Brown type player earlier this year to a player that is now giving a lot closer to 100% effort.

Capel making significant changes as this season continued, including starting Lowe, to critical in game adjustments during games like putting Jeffress at Center.

It took every player and coach involved with this program for this turnaround to take place.

 

[LGP1989]

It is now March, Pitt is 20-10 and 11-8, and ranked around 40 in all the major metrics. What else could we ask for?

A Steve Forbes led Wake team is well...doing Steve Forbes led Wake things. We're ahead of Virginia in the pecking order (or should be). One more win and Jeff could be on his way to a second consecutive CoY award.

 

[pierre93]

I don't even know how good of a recruiter he is, from the looks of it. He recruited one good player who is demonstrating how good he really is....Jaland Lowe. The rest, including Bub, haven't shown anything consistently or at all. And Jaland will probably be gone after this year with a payday to another team that is a contender. I'm not counting portal players. This is limited to real recruiting of high school players. Portals are just free agents who go after the most money.

It's been proven many times that Capel is a very poor coach.

Really?????

 

[Sam Young 23]

Fantastic job by Capel. This year could of been a disaster with the start.

 

[NCanton Panther]

Fantastic job by Capel. This year could have been a disaster with the start.

Fantastic job by Capel moving Jaland to the starting lineup!!

 

[Pittisit4me]

Fantastic job by Capel moving Jaland to the starting lineup!!

I agree, but your over simplifying things. I believe guys are getting better and confidence is growing for all players. Capel deserves credit for this. Jaland is no doubt the maestro. Having said that, Zack Austin has looked better, GDG has looked better and given good minutes lately. Ish has been steady as a rock, and even Fede has been more active. Bub is the wildcard. When he is on and takes good shots with the offense we are hard to beat. This team is still improving, give HCJC the credit he deserves. It is fun watching this team grow with its freshmen guards.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Fantastic job by Capel moving Jaland to the starting lineup!!

And proof that he reads my posts for suggestions!