Rock and roll HOF 2024
- Thread starter Pitt666
- Start date
That's just simply factually incorrect. There absolutely IS a voting process that determines who gets in. What is not a voting process is in who gets nominated. And the nominations were what Wenner and his cronies controlled. So bands and artists he liked and wanted in got nominations, and the ones that he didn't like didn't get them. And if you are not nominated you cannot be voted for. As an example, Wenner notoriously hated any hard rock or metal, which is why bands like Iron Maiden, who should have been in decades ago, was never even nominated until 2020, and why Judas Priest had to get in the same way that Rhoads got in, through a "musical excellence" award rather than through being nominated and then voted in.
But there are somewhere around 1,000 people who actually do vote, and the people who get in are the ones who get the most votes from those people. The public vote is pretty much a joke, because all the public votes combined count exactly the same amount as one other vote counts. When they add up the vote totals, they give one vote to whichever acts finish the highest in the fan voting.
Right now, the top seven in fan voting are, in order, Ozzy, Foreigner, Frampton, Dave Mathews Band, Cher, Kravitz and Carey. If it finishes the way it is now, all seven of those will have one vote added to their total. Which will make no difference what so ever.
I’m with you on Joy Division-extremely influential. And quite frankly, I think they should be in there on their own, as should New Order.
I agree the New Order took them in a different direction but Joy Division was already pointed that way right before Ian’s death.
Nonetheless, both of Joy Divisions albums are completely immortal. Mother Love Bone can’t say the same.
And Thank God for that .. Rolling sone was/is a rag who have trashed more classic artists than any . They invented "clicks" long before internet ..
Alex Lifeson's acceptance speech pretty much sums up the "Rock n Roll"
half fame standards .
half fame standards .
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You really need a reading comprehension refresher course. As my post made clear, the “voting process” that I was referring to as meaningless is the fan voting, a statement that you apparently agree with. As far as the real selection process, less than 1,000 people have a say in it, but that is far more than in the days before it was reformed when a few selected people could keep any performer they wanted out of the Hall. Controlling the nomination process back then was akin to controlling who was elected, but Wenner controlled both.
Wenner’s dislike for certain performers was not necessarily based on their genre, although he was not a fan of most heavy metal groups. I don’t think it’s accurate to say he didn’t like any hard rock acts (although I’m not sure exactly what hard rock encompasses because most people definite it differently.) One of the groups he kept out was “Chicago” which hardly could be classified in either of those genres. He had personal issues with one member and his wife and single-handedly kept them out from 1993, their first year of eligibility, until 2016, when they finally were inducted.
One of the groups he kept out was “Chicago” ....
He don't give a damn about any trumpet playin' band
It ain't what he calls Rock and Roll
Sorry, couldn't resist.
They seem to rotate who is nominated for vote year-to-year. Steppenwolf was on the ballot a few years ago and failed to get the votes, but will most likely get future chances.
Yeah I mean Chicago was a no brainer and for the RRHOF to keep them out so long is criminal.
Terry Kath said, "Devil, come on back if you ever want to try again
I done told you once, you son of a gun, I'm the best there's ever been"
An actual voter just recently said that the people at the HOF told him that there are more than 1000 voters.
And for what it's worth, Wikipedia also says that there are "more than 1000" voters.
Everyone who is inducted into the Hall gets a vote. I wonder how many of those there are (meaning still living), and how many of them actually put in a ballot?
he's got a day job he's doing alright
More than 1,000 people get ballots, including every living member. Not all return them of course. Those ballots are reviewed by a smaller group which makes the final decision. It’s not just a straight process of tallying the votes and the xx people getting the highest number get in. The number of inductees each year is not set in stone.
I really can’t go into too much detail because I was one of three attorneys for two people who were very active in changing the selection process and that would involve some privileged information.
I am retired so I have no inside information about what is happening now. But, I do know what the process is. Let me just say this: When Stevie Nicks gave a speech decrying the small number of women who had been inducted, that made a great impression on the decision makers (who are not 1,000 but are a significant number although some are more significant than others in their influence).
I don’t know if Carole King, Tina Turner and the Go-Gos, all inducted the next year, all were among the top six vote getters the next year, but I was not even a little surprised that they were inducted. Ditto for Pat Benatar, Carly Simon and Dolly Parton the following year. It’s only my opinion, but Judas Priest being inducted for Musical Excellence that year was a sop to Jann Wenner, who had opposed them so strenuously both for musical and personal reasons. He no longer is control but he is recognized as the Founder not to mention the founder of Rolling Stone, and if there is a way to not slap him right in the face with an inductee they will at least sometimes take it.
Sheryl Crowe, Kate Bush and Missy Elliott were inducted last year. That is 3 women a year for 3 years. All deserved IMO. But, not a coincidence and I’m not sure they all would have gotten in had the top 7 vote getters been inducted.
I think the system will change. The major slights perceived from past inductions will be rectified and perhaps the top 5 or 6 or 7 vote getters will be inducted every year (I think the number is not set in stone but a byproduct of how long the televised ceremony will be.) On the other hand, I think they always will have in the future some mechanism for correcting an imbalance or a blatant oversight. The Musical Excellence designation allows them to do that to some extent, but it wouldn’t allow for a correction if the top 7 vote getters were all heavy metal groups for example. I have two former clients who are both terrific guys who are members, but Heaven Forbid “Poison” ever being inducted for Musical Excellence.
I am not sure Joy Division/New Order ever will be inducted, as influential as they were. They didn’t sell and they were British. But, if Oasis happens to get in, that theory goes up in smoke. The one band I can think of which clearly got in for its influence and not its body of work (which while brilliant was too small) was Buffalo Springfield.
Good post. But the top seven vote getters are NEVER going to be all heavy metal groups, because there will never be a time that there are seven heavy metal groups nominated in the same year. People can't vote for whomever they want, they can only vote for who the nominating committee puts on the ballot. That's the way (or one of the ways) that Wenner had an outsized say in who got in. The nominating committee was him and his cronies. If he didn't like you, you didn't get nominated. If you weren't nominated you couldn't get voted in.
As an example, years ago I heard an interview with Lou Graham of Foreigner. He was asked about the Hall of Fame, and he said that they weren't ever going to get in because years and years ago Mick Jones and Wenner had some sort of beef, and Wenner told Graham that as long as he had anything to do with it he would guarantee that Foreigner was never on the ballot. It is no coincidence that now that Wenner has nothing to do with the nominating process that for the first time Foreigner is on the ballot. And seemingly has a pretty good chance to get elected.
You have to remember who that one guy was. He was the founder of Rolling Stone magazine. He could say who got in the cover and who didn’t. If he liked you and a reviewer wrote a bad review for your new album, he would simply rewrite the review to be more favorable. And vice versa. He was used to wielding that kind of power.
He founded the R&R HOF. He believed it was his innate right to decide who was inducted and who wasn't. Initially, there was not a set procedure for nominations and elections. But, when that procedure was established, he ignored it. If Jann didn’t want you in, you wouldn’t be nominated. Now, Jann loved John Lennon but had a feud with Paul McCartney for a few years (then patched up). I don’t think even he would have dared keep The Beatles out; there are some lines you just can't cross even if you have the power to cross them.
On the other hand, there are genres which sold an awful lot of records and had a lot of hits which are underrepresented in the HOF and probably always will be because Jann Wenner wasn’t a fan, their time basically has passed and they aren’t well known by younger audiences who make up the bulk of current voters: The Association, America, Boston, The Guess Who, Kansas, The Seekers and others. A couple of them probably would have been inducted 20 years ago if they had been nominated back then. I’m honestly not sure how Foreigner finally got nominated. (Please don’t reply explaining how Foreigner is different than America, etc. They are all different but they all had quite a few hits in the 1960-89 period.)
I read once Jimi Hendrix admitted that Terry Kath was a far better guitarist than him .
Talk about the ultimate complement ... This video proves it in my opinion . The guitar especially is obscene . Back in 70 they didn't have all the modern gadgets . Just a Strat a wah wah pedal and Volume ...
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That performance at Tanglewood in 1970 (I think) is one of the all-time virtuoso performances by a great guitar player, Terry Kath.
But, better than Hendrix? That story originated with James Pankow, who claimed that during a concert where they opened for Hendrix, Hendrix told him how much he liked the group and said, in effect, that ‘your guitar player is better than me.’ Not “far better” but “better.” It’s subsequently been repeated by other members of the group.
I like Jimmy. He was a client and a friend. We both used to buy Hawaiian shirts at a store in Calabasas near where he lived and one Saturday when we both happened to be there, he promised that if I won our pending motion to terminate his ex-wife’s spousal support, he would buy me every shirt of my size in the store. That was a lot of shirts as 95% of the merchandise in the store was Hawaiian shirts. I won the motion. I didn’t get the support terminated, but I got it reduced by 7/8, to a number I knew would require her to stop dating cute 20-something auto mechanics and find a 50-something sugar daddy husband #2.
Three months later, she did (he was 60-something) and the support terminated.
I never asked Jimmy to buy me all of those shirts and he never again offered. I never took his offer seriously. I also don’t take the Hendrix story seriously. He might have said it or something like it, but I don’t think he really meant it.
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It’s one barometer anyway. And for the record, the Backstreet Boys never had a #1 single regardless.
I didn't pay attention to that frothy junk. Mrs. NTOP liked them. Didn't know Knofler
Yeah, I've heard that story before and thought the same thing. There is at least as good a chance that Hendrix was just trying to say something nice about someone he was asked about than that he 100% meant exactly what he said.
Well, all the votes are in and the inductees have been announced. SIXTEEN individuals and groups. Now that they have the special category for pioneers and musical excellence, it will be interesting to see how many were inducted into it. Their live television special is an important and big money maker for the HOF and I don’t believe they ever have inductions if more than 6 or 7 on the show.
The big surprise for me: Mariah Carey not being inducted. I imagine this was a wait til next year decision.
The big surprise for me: Mariah Carey not being inducted. I imagine this was a wait til next year decision.
She's been eligible for a while now. What I've heard is that a lot of people seem to object to the fact that she doesn't write any music, she just sings other people's songs, and for some people that's a deal breaker.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
I refuse to recognize the legitimacy of this so called "hall of fame" until Spinal Tap is inducted.
I'm figuring that they are waiting until the sequel comes out, because that would be some great advertising synergy.
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