The major fallacy in your argument is that the “voting process” doesn’t control who is elected. The ranking in votes from the public is “considered” but for the most part ignored. For example, Motley Crue led the public balloting one year. They didn’t get in and likely never will get in.
For years, no matter what the “process” was supposed to be, Jann Wenner, the founder of Rolling Stone and the HOF, and a few of his buddies in the industry controlled who got in. About 10 years ago, that got changed. There are more decision makers and the scope of who will be considered has been broadened.
I’m with you on Joy Division-extremely influential. And quite frankly, I think they should be in there on their own, as should New Order.Yes....but Mother Love Bone was never cited by countless groups as one of their role models/inspiration as Joy Division was.
I agree the New Order took them in a different direction but Joy Division was already pointed that way right before Ian’s death.Yeah. You're reaching here. Every single grunge band pretty much cites them as an influence.
I get it, Joy Division has a cult following. But New Order took Joy Division in a different (and better IMO) direction.
And Thank God for that .. Rolling sone was/is a rag who have trashed more classic artists than any . They invented "clicks" long before internet ..The major fallacy in your argument is that the “voting process” doesn’t control who is elected. The ranking in votes from the public is “considered” but for the most part ignored. For example, Motley Crue led the public balloting one year. They didn’t get in and likely never will get in.
For years, no matter what the “process” was supposed to be, Jann Wenner, the founder of Rolling Stone and the HOF, and a few of his buddies in the industry controlled who got in. About 10 years ago, that got changed. There are more decision makers and the scope of who will be considered has been broadened.
You really need a reading comprehension refresher course. As my post made clear, the “voting process” that I was referring to as meaningless is the fan voting, a statement that you apparently agree with. As far as the real selection process, less than 1,000 people have a say in it, but that is far more than in the days before it was reformed when a few selected people could keep any performer they wanted out of the Hall. Controlling the nomination process back then was akin to controlling who was elected, but Wenner controlled both.That's just simply factually incorrect. There absolutely IS a voting process that determines who gets in. What is not a voting process is in who gets nominated. And the nominations were what Wenner and his cronies controlled. So bands and artists he liked and wanted in got nominations, and the ones that he didn't like didn't get them. And if you are not nominated you cannot be voted for. As an example, Wenner notoriously hated any hard rock or metal, which is why bands like Iron Maiden, who should have been in decades ago, was never even nominated until 2020, and why Judas Priest had to get in the same way that Rhoads got in, through a "musical excellence" award rather than through being nominated and then voted in.
But there are somewhere around 1,000 people who actually do vote, and the people who get in are the ones who get the most votes from those people. The public vote is pretty much a joke, because all the public votes combined count exactly the same amount as one other vote counts. When they add up the vote totals, they give one vote to whichever acts finish the highest in the fan voting.
Right now, the top seven in fan voting are, in order, Ozzy, Foreigner, Frampton, Dave Mathews Band, Cher, Kravitz and Carey. If it finishes the way it is now, all seven of those will have one vote added to their total. Which will make no difference what so ever.
One of the groups he kept out was “Chicago” ....You really need a reading comprehension refresher course. As my post made clear, the “voting process” that I was referring to as meaningless is the fan voting, a statement that you apparently agree with. As far as the real selection process, less than 1,000 people have a say in it, but that is far more than in the days before it was reformed when a few selected people could keep any performer they wanted out of the Hall. Controlling the nomination process back then was akin to controlling who was elected, but Wenner controlled both.
Wenner’s dislike for certain performers was not necessarily based on their genre, although he was not a fan of most heavy metal groups. I don’t think it’s accurate to say he didn’t like any hard rock acts (although I’m not sure exactly what hard rock encompasses because most people definite it differently.) One of the groups he kept out was “Chicago” which hardly could be classified in either of those genres. He had personal issues with one member and his wife and single-handedly kept them out from 1993, their first year of eligibility, until 2016, when they finally were inducted.
They seem to rotate who is nominated for vote year-to-year. Steppenwolf was on the ballot a few years ago and failed to get the votes, but will most likely get future chances.Steppenwolf. Their omission is proof that the Rock & Roll HOF is a Mickey Mouse operation.
Yeah I mean Chicago was a no brainer and for the RRHOF to keep them out so long is criminal.You really need a reading comprehension refresher course. As my post made clear, the “voting process” that I was referring to as meaningless is the fan voting, a statement that you apparently agree with. As far as the real selection process, less than 1,000 people have a say in it, but that is far more than in the days before it was reformed when a few selected people could keep any performer they wanted out of the Hall. Controlling the nomination process back then was akin to controlling who was elected, but Wenner controlled both.
Wenner’s dislike for certain performers was not necessarily based on their genre, although he was not a fan of most heavy metal groups. I don’t think it’s accurate to say he didn’t like any hard rock acts (although I’m not sure exactly what hard rock encompasses because most people definite it differently.) One of the groups he kept out was “Chicago” which hardly could be classified in either of those genres. He had personal issues with one member and his wife and single-handedly kept them out from 1993, their first year of eligibility, until 2016, when they finally were inducted.
One of the groups he kept out was “Chicago” ....
He don't give a damn about any trumpet playin' band
It ain't what he calls Rock and Roll
Sorry, couldn't resist.
As far as the real selection process, less than 1,000 people have a say in it
he's got a day job he's doing alrightOne of the groups he kept out was “Chicago” ....
He don't give a damn about any trumpet playin' band
It ain't what he calls Rock and Roll
Sorry, couldn't resist.
More than 1,000 people get ballots, including every living member. Not all return them of course. Those ballots are reviewed by a smaller group which makes the final decision. It’s not just a straight process of tallying the votes and the xx people getting the highest number get in. The number of inductees each year is not set in stone.An actual voter just recently said that the people at the HOF told him that there are more than 1000 voters.
And for what it's worth, Wikipedia also says that there are "more than 1000" voters.
Everyone who is inducted into the Hall gets a vote. I wonder how many of those there are (meaning still living), and how many of them actually put in a ballot?
but it wouldn’t allow for a correction if the top 7 vote getters were all heavy metal groups for example
That's insane how one guy could manipulate that much.Good post. But the top seven vote getters are NEVER going to be all heavy metal groups, because there will never be a time that there are seven heavy metal groups nominated in the same year. People can't vote for whomever they want, they can only vote for who the nominating committee puts on the ballot. That's the way (or one of the ways) that Wenner had an outsized say in who got in. The nominating committee was him and his cronies. If he didn't like you, you didn't get nominated. If you weren't nominated you couldn't get voted in.
As an example, years ago I heard an interview with Lou Graham of Foreigner. He was asked about the Hall of Fame, and he said that they weren't ever going to get in because years and years ago Mick Jones and Wenner had some sort of beef, and Wenner told Graham that as long as he had anything to do with it he would guarantee that Foreigner was never on the ballot. It is no coincidence that now that Wenner has nothing to do with the nominating process that for the first time Foreigner is on the ballot. And seemingly has a pretty good chance to get elected.
You have to remember who that one guy was. He was the founder of Rolling Stone magazine. He could say who got in the cover and who didn’t. If he liked you and a reviewer wrote a bad review for your new album, he would simply rewrite the review to be more favorable. And vice versa. He was used to wielding that kind of power.That's insane how one guy could manipulate that much.
I read once Jimi Hendrix admitted that Terry Kath was a far better guitarist than him .Terry Kath said, "Devil, come on back if you ever want to try again
I done told you once, you son of a gun, I'm the best there's ever been"
That performance at Tanglewood in 1970 (I think) is one of the all-time virtuoso performances by a great guitar player, Terry Kath.I read once Jimi Hendrix admitted that Terry Kath was a far better guitarist than him .
Talk about the ultimate complement ... This video proves it in my opinion . The guitar especially is obscene . Back in 70 they didn't have all the modern gadgets . Just a Strat a wah wah pedal and Volume ...
As far as rock n roll goes, these guys were Mariah Carey wannabes....I read once Jimi Hendrix admitted that Terry Kath was a far better guitarist than him .
Talk about the ultimate complement ... This video proves it in my opinion . The guitar especially is obscene . Back in 70 they didn't have all the modern gadgets . Just a Strat a wah wah pedal and Volume ...
Why use success as a barometer?. If so, Backstreet Boys trounce most.I'm still have a hard time deciding which of these 7 I would vote for.
Here are my locks:
Ozzy -- he's big enough to be in there twice!
A Tribe Called Quest
Eric B. & Rakim
After those three, I'm really struggling. To me, this is a list of artists who fall just below "Hall of Fame" level.
But I'll start with Maria Carey. First let me say that I really don't like her at all. I don't really consider her all that much of an artist other than a voice. But I just can't get past that her 19 #1 singles puts her in second place, only behind the Beatles leading number of 20. As much as I can't stand her, I just don't know how you can leave her out.
I honestly don't know where to go with the last three. It's so hard for me to think as Foreigner and DMB as Hall of Fame artists. Nice bands, sure. But Hall of Fame?
I don't think Jane's Addiction is a Hall of Fame Band, but Perry Ferrel deserves some recognition for Lollapalooza.
Love Sinead O'Conner but did she really have a Hall of Fame career or was she that influential? It feels a bit short on both. Much the same for Lenny Kravitz.
Peter Frampton had the Live album of the Decade in 76 but soon after went into a self imposed exile.
Cher? A huge cultural icon of course, but was her music career Hall of Fame worthy? It's close.
I think I'd lean a little more in favor of Mary J. Blige over Cher because she was a molder of pop music in the 90's.
I love Sade -- she could be my favorite artist on this list, but I don't know how you put her in over Mary.
Kool and the Gang? I'm just not a fan because Celebration has tainted my brain. But 12 top 10 songs means something.
Oasis? There's no understating how HUGE they were in England. Does that count here?
So from this list, I've talked myself into Maria Carey as I already mentioned, Mary J. Blige, Peter Frampton and Oasis to go along with Ozzy, ATCQ and Eric B.
It’s one barometer anyway. And for the record, the Backstreet Boys never had a #1 single regardless.Why use success as a barometer?. If so, Backstreet Boys trounce most.
I didn't pay attention to that frothy junk. Mrs. NTOP liked them. Didn't know KnoflerIt’s one barometer anyway. And for the record, the Backstreet Boys never had a #1 single regardless.
I also don’t take the Hendrix story seriously. He might have said it or something like it, but I don’t think he really meant it.
Nick cannon having another kid prevents her from performing.Well, all the votes are in and the inductees have been announced. SIXTEEN individuals and groups. Now that they have the special category for pioneers and musical excellence, it will be interesting to see how many were inducted into it. Their live television special is an important and big money maker for the HOF and I don’t believe they ever have inductions if more than 6 or 7 on the show.
The big surprise for me: Mariah Carey not being inducted. I imagine this was a wait til next year decision.
The big surprise for me: Mariah Carey not being inducted. I imagine this was a wait til next year decision.
She needs Robbie Robertson to give her tunes......from the grave.She's been eligible for a while now. What I've heard is that a lot of people seem to object to the fact that she doesn't write any music, she just sings other people's songs, and for some people that's a deal breaker.
I refuse to recognize the legitimacy of this so called "hall of fame" until Spinal Tap is inducted.
From the current candidates, I would like to see
Oasis - the last great British import. And who wouldn't want an opportunity to see the Gallagher brothers start another hot war?
I saw Noel and the high flying birds a couple times. Excellent showsLooks like I'm going to get my wish!
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...ion-tour-2025-manchester-london-b2602044.html