Says a lot about our coach and players

[gary2]

Capel wanted Jeffress to miss his second foul shot. He instructed Jeffress to Miss.

Jeffress appeared confused according to Capel.

Capel responded “NEVERMIND”, make the shot

Combined Quotes vs. Colgate (PDF) - Pitt Panthers #H2P

Combined Quotes vs. Colgate (PDF)

pittsburghpanthers.com

Now that is what I call coaching.

Communicating to bricks must be hard.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Maybe the percentages would say otherwise, but there's no way in hell I would ever want my player to miss that shot on purpose. It's like walking Barry Bonds to bring up the winning run, except the possibility Colgate inbounding a pass and hitting a three with just over a second left is like Will Craig stepping up to bat with a blindfold more than it is comparable to pitching to the great Barry Lamar Bonds.

 

[NCanton Panther]

Capel wanted Jeffress to miss his second foul shot. He instructed Jeffress to Miss.

Jeffress appeared confused according to Capel.

Capel responded “NEVERMIND”, make the shot

Combined Quotes vs. Colgate (PDF) - Pitt Panthers #H2P

Combined Quotes vs. Colgate (PDF)

pittsburghpanthers.com

Now that is what I call coaching.

Communicating to bricks must be hard.

I was wondering about that. Seemed like he might have been telling him to miss it during the TO. And then he went in and swished it so I just figured my impression of the TO dialogue was wrong.

 

[NCanton Panther]

Maybe the percentages would say otherwise, but there's no way in hell I would ever want my player to miss that shot on purpose. It's like walking Barry Bonds to bring up the winning run, except the possibility Colgate inbounding a pass and hitting a three with just over a second left is like Will Craig stepping up to bat with a blindfold more than it is comparable to pitching to the great Barry Lamar Bonds.

What was there, 1.1 seconds left? Not illogical. harder to collect a rebound and get a heave off in that time compared to an IB play.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

What was there, 1.1 seconds left? Not illogical. harder to collect a rebound and get a heave off in that time compared to an IB play.

Obviously. However, you can lose the game in one scenario. In the other scenario, a tie is the worst that can happen.

 

[NCanton Panther]

Obviously. However, you can lose the game in one scenario. In the other scenario, a tie is the worst that can happen.

Yeah that part’s obvious. Just noting why the intentional miss could be a logical option.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Yeah that part’s obvious. Just noting why the intentional miss could be a logical option.

Sorry, didn't mean to sound like a dick. I guess it's just personal preference. I'd choose the 5% chance of a worst-case scenario tie over the 2% chance of a worst-case scenario loss. The analytics might not back that up, but Capel needs to scrap those and go by the book of bad voodoo at this point.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Maybe the percentages would say otherwise, but there's no way in hell I would ever want my player to miss that shot on purpose. It's like walking Barry Bonds to bring up the winning run, except the possibility Colgate inbounding a pass and hitting a three with just over a second left is like Will Craig stepping up to bat with a blindfold more than it is comparable to pitching to the great Barry Lamar Bonds.

Making this up but probably not far off.

If Jeffress misses the 2nd, they have probably a 0.5% chance of winning the game on a 75 foot shot. You maybe make 1 out of 200 of those. If he makes it, they probably have a 1%-2% chance of tying it on a very long 3.

 

[gary2]

What was there, 1.1 seconds left? Not illogical. harder to collect a rebound and get a heave off in that time compared to an IB play.

Obviously. However, you can lose the game in one scenario. In the other scenario, a tie is the worst that can happen.

Exacrly

 

[Chescat]

Exacrly

This can be analyzed to
the point of distraction.
The point is, there are
some coaches who see it
one way, and some who
see it the opposite. I see
the logic in both, but I don't
say one is wrong and the
other is right. This is one
of those non black and
white issues that's more
in the grey world.

Of course it's great fodder
for message board junkies.

 

[wbrpanther]

Maybe the percentages would say otherwise, but there's no way in hell I would ever want my player to miss that shot on purpose. It's like walking Barry Bonds to bring up the winning run, except the possibility Colgate inbounding a pass and hitting a three with just over a second left is like Will Craig stepping up to bat with a blindfold more than it is comparable to pitching to the great Barry Lamar Bonds.

Try thinking about it. Up 2 with less than 2 seconds left. make it and they take the ball out with a chance to throw the ball the length of the court. Miss it and the clock starts on the rebound with not a chance at a clear shot and no time for a pass and shoot.

 

[gary2]

This can be analyzed to
the point of distraction.
The point is, there are
some coaches who see it
one way, and some who
see it the opposite. I see
the logic in both, but I don't
say one is wrong and the
other is right. This is one
of those non black and
white issues that's more
in the grey world.

Of course it's great fodder
for message board junkies.

The greater point is Capel made a coaching decision but “abandoned” it because he was unable to convey his instructions to his “brick”

 

[Chescat]

The greater point is Capel made a coaching decision but “abandoned” it because he was unable to convey his instructions to his “brick”

Yes, I saw that he said that.
However, what that shows
is he has a "belief" as what
to do in that situation. The
point I was making is some
coaches have that same
belief, while others have
the opposite belief. I also
believe that neither is
right or wrong.

BTW, I once saw a game
where the FT was missed
and a defensive player
came down with rebound
and fired it the lenght of
the court for the win. It
can happen.

 

[4Mark_Marty]

Capel wanted Jeffress to miss his second foul shot. He instructed Jeffress to Miss.

Jeffress appeared confused according to Capel.

Capel responded “NEVERMIND”, make the shot

Combined Quotes vs. Colgate (PDF) - Pitt Panthers #H2P

Combined Quotes vs. Colgate (PDF)

pittsburghpanthers.com

Now that is what I call coaching.

Communicating to bricks must be hard.

Instructing Will to miss was the right call. He changed his mind when Will acted like an idiot when he gave him the instructions. Unbelievable that Will didn’t know what to do.

 

[gary2]

Instructing Will to miss was the right call. He changed his mind when Will acted like an idiot when he gave him the instructions. Unbelievable that Will didn’t know what to do.

True about Will (Say hello to Jeffress - DT will get the reference) but also…

Unbelievable that a coach would abandon his decision.

 

[4Mark_Marty]

True about Will (Say hello to Jeffress - DT will get the reference) but also…

Unbelievable that a coach would abandon his decision.

Capel is defeated. Kids aren’t but he is.

 

[NCanton Panther]

This can be analyzed to
the point of distraction.
The point is, there are
some coaches who see it
one way, and some who
see it the opposite. I see
the logic in both, but I don't
say one is wrong and the
other is right. This is one
of those non black and
white issues that's more
in the grey world.

Of course it's great fodder
for message board junkies.

I agree, you can lean towards either school of thought in this one.

Now the more common debate about whether or not to intentionally foul at the end before a player can get a shot off when you’re up 3, I’ll go with foul.

 

[Chescat]

If you look at Capel's
entire conversation with
Jeffress, it makes sense.
Capel admitted they
hadn't practiced that
situation. That's why Will
was confused, so....Capel
changed his mind and
told him to make it.

Here's a similar comparison.
End of game, you're up by
3. Foul and put the other
team on the line?...or just
play D and hope they don't
hit a three. Remember our
NCAA loss to Vandy? All
the Monday morning QB's
on here (and even the
players) said we shoulda
fouled. It's easy to know
the right answer AFTER
the fact. LOL

 

[Chescat]

I agree, you can lean towards either school of thought in this one.

Now the more common debate about whether or not to intentionally foul at the end before a player can get a shot off when you’re up 3, I’ll go with foul.

Sorry NC....I just posted
the same example before
seeing yours. We're like
minded posters this time.

 

[NCanton Panther]

If you look at Capel's
entire conversation with
Jeffress, it makes sense.
Capel admitted they
hadn't practiced that
situation. That's why Will
was confused, so....Capel
changed his mind and
told him to make it.

Here's a similar comparison.
End of game, you're up by
3. Foul and put the other
team on the line?...or just
play D and hope they don't
hit a three. Remember our
NCAA loss to Vandy? All
the Monday morning QB's
on here (and even the
players) said we shoulda
fouled. It's easy to know
the right answer AFTER
the fact. LOL

Too funny, I just brought that debate up replying to your first post.

 

[Franb]

True about Will (Say hello to Jeffress - DT will get the reference) but also…

Unbelievable that a coach would abandon his decision.

Jeffress is a 63% free throw shooter, who had already missed the first attempt. Regardless of what Capel told him, there was a decent chance that he would miss the 2nd shot. He said they never practiced that scenario, so it is reasonable for a coach to change his mind, given those circumstances.

 

[gary2]

Jeffress is a 63% free throw shooter, who had already missed the first attempt. Regardless of what Capel told him, there was a decent chance that he would miss the 2nd shot. He said they never practiced that scenario, so it is reasonable for a coach to change his mind, given those circumstances.

Yep, I can see Rick Pitino (or Coach K) acting in the exact same way. Absolutely.

 

[DT_PITT]

True about Will (Say hello to Jeffress - DT will get the reference) but also…

Unbelievable that a coach would abandon his decision.

I really think this is much ado about nothing.

 

[gary2]

I really think this is much ado about nothing.

Of course you do

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Try thinking about it. Up 2 with less than 2 seconds left. make it and they take the ball out with a chance to throw the ball the length of the court. Miss it and the clock starts on the rebound with not a chance at a clear shot and no time for a pass and shoot.

There's nothing to think about for me. Either scenario is HIGHLY unlikely, so I'm taking the one that protects my team from losing.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Remember our
NCAA loss to Vandy? All
the Monday morning QB's
on here (and even the
players) said we shoulda
fouled. It's easy to know
the right answer AFTER
the fact. LOL

That's a really bad example, because even in real time it was obviously the correct decision was to foul. What most people forget is that the first couple years of the three point shot in college basketball if you were fouled shooting a three you only got two foul shots. They could have even hammered him as he was going up for the shot and Vanderbilt still wouldn't have been able to tie the game!

 

[Chescat]

That's a really bad example, because even in real time it was obviously the correct decision was to foul. What most people forget is that the first couple years of the three point shot in college basketball if you were fouled shooting a three you only got two foul shots. They could have even hammered him as he was going up for the shot and Vanderbilt still wouldn't have been able to tie the game!

The point was about the
discussion on this very
board following the game
similar to today's chat.

Now, as to why it wasn't a
bad example. (didn't say
exact example, said similar
comparison). Here it is,
foul and put him on the
line. He makes the first,
misses purposely the
second, and hope for the
rebound and put back.
They then actually tie
the game. Now of course
we don't know what Coach
Evans was thinking, but
he was obviously cautious.

Sorry, but on this one,
we disagree. IMO, not a
bad example.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

lol, he probably would have missed the rim entirely....

 

[Ski11585]

Of course you do

And of course you do. Productive chat!

 

[gary2]

And of course you do. Productive chat!

Capel: my strategy was to miss the foul shot intentionally.

I instructed Jeffress to miss. I understand that was a complicated instruction and he may have been confused by it. Who wouldn’t be? It is extremely unlikely he has been faced with a similar situation in a game he played in or even watched such a situation in a game he attended or watched on TV.

Furthermore we had not practiced that instruction or the implications of it. Why would we? Thsee situations so seldom come up at end of games.

Taking all that into consideration, I think I made a wise decision to abandon my previous strategy. What do I know anyway?

Hey, it is all good. We beat Colgate by 3 at home.

 

[Franb]

I really think this is much ado about nothing.

It certainly is. There seems to be some on this board who are trying to find any possible reason to be critical of Capel. The team's poor record and lack of recruiting is just not enough.

 

[DT_PITT]

It certainly is. There seems to be some on this board who are trying to find any possible reason to be critical of Capel. The team's poor record and lack of recruiting is just not enough.

And it should be plenty. It’s certainly enough for me to convinced his time here needs to come to an end.

 

[TWPitt]

And it should be plenty. It’s certainly enough for me to convinced his time here needs to come to an end.

Yea I could live with the record and the way the team is playing now (past 3-4 games) if Mintz was still committed and we had a pulse with a few other decent players. I really like Will/John/Nate as a core to build around with Femi/Noah as rotation players, I don't see either as starters but both could be good depth/energy guys in an 8-10 man rotation guys.

I hope we move quick in whatever direction the administration decides to go and we can retain those guys for next year.

 

[4Mark_Marty]

And it should be plenty. It’s certainly enough for me to convinced his time here needs to come to an end.

You going Sunday?

 

[gary2]

And it should be plenty. It’s certainly enough for me to convinced his time here needs to come to an end.

Who is on your list?

 

[DT_PITT]

You going Sunday?

Don’t I always?

 

[4Mark_Marty]

Don’t I always?

See you there.

 

[DT_PITT]

See you there.

Are you already set?

 

[DT_PITT]

Who is on your list?

To be honest … I just don’t know. The whole idea of a coaching search again is so incredibly discouraging to me.

At the moment, I’m very troubled with the total lack of interest in the program at the moment. It’s miserable sitting at the Pete with crowds that honestly don’t pass 1,000 people.

I am even wondering how many season tickets we sold.

So my first thought is someone who can bring some interest … someone realistic. (Rick Pitino is a complete pipe dream.)

This brings up Brandin Knight. He would totally check that box.

But I also want someone who can coach a basketball team to play good team basketball. I’ve grown so tired of watching Capel’s offense that often looks like not much more than the pick up teams would run at Greentree in the summer. Screen and drive … screen and drive.

There is absolutely no evidence Brandin can do anything.

Maybe an emphasis should be placed on a recruiter and I really thought Capel would fit that bill. But he hasn’t which makes me wonder if that quick recruiting fix is even in the cards at all. This leads me back to the guy who can get his teams to play good team basketball.

There’s many games to be played this year though, and something in my gut tells me Heather isn’t nearly far down the road of replacing Capel as almost all of the message board faithful.

 

[gary2]

To be honest … I just don’t know. The whole idea of a coaching search again is so incredibly discouraging to me.

At the moment, I’m very troubled with the total lack of interest in the program at the moment. It’s miserable sitting at the Pete with crowds that honestly don’t pass 1,000 people.

I am even wondering how many season tickets we sold.

So my first thought is someone who can bring some interest … someone realistic. (Rick Pitino is a complete pipe dream.)

This brings up Brandin Knight. He would totally check that box.

But I also want someone who can coach a basketball team to play good team basketball. I’ve grown so tired of watching Capel’s offense that often looks like not much more than the pick up teams would run at Greentree in the summer. Screen and drive … screen and drive.

There is absolutely no evidence Brandin can do anything.

Maybe an emphasis should be placed on a recruiter and I really thought Capel would fit that bill. But he hasn’t which makes me wonder if that quick recruiting fix is even in the cards at all. This leads me back to the guy who can get his teams to play good team basketball.

There’s many games to be played this year though, and something in my gut tells me Heather isn’t nearly far down the road of replacing Capel as almost all of the message board faithful.

Thanks for the reply.

My top two right now would be Wes Miller from Cincinnati and Brandin.

Miller might get it down now.(Cincinnati and Louisville always seem to know what they are doing at least until Satterfield)

Brandin might be a necessary bridge to respectability and fan re-engagement/unification.