ADVERTISEMENT

Science says "open schools"

There are going to be a good number of teachers who legitimately (and honestly some not legitimately) who are going to try to beg out of in person instruction.

My wife, a teacher, has lupus and gets extremely sick in a lot of different ways. We're trying for kids. I'm legitimately considering having her quit her job until we get a vaccine. It's just not worth rolling the dice with her and potentially my baby's life for $45,000.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pitt90seven
My wife, a teacher, has lupus and gets extremely sick in a lot of different ways. We're trying for kids. I'm legitimately considering having her quit her job until we get a vaccine. It's just not worth rolling the dice with her and potentially my baby's life for $45,000.
I think that makes sense. She can probably do many other things for work as well. Maybe even get to be a mother very soon.

Having a family is wonderful.
 
Our kids school ( also GA) just delayed opening by a month. Absolutely the correct move with the numbers escalating daily. This is a ****ing mess and Kemp is a complete asshat... can’t even bring himself to make masks a requirement because he’s afraid of Donnie dipshit. Then to the south a bit further there’s Desantis... another one up for this years “ Amity Mayoral Award” winner... the guy literally hasn’t ever had a photo taken or a press conference where doesn’t just look... stupid... and then he speaks & it’s confirmation of everything you believed upon seeing him...

Also in GA. The extra month won't help. We're back to Mid-May numbers now. By August, we'll be back to mid-June numbers. That means a huge outbreak is just waiting to happen again.

Parents are allowed to choose remote instruction for the first half of the year, so GA needs teachers dedicated to do remote teaching. My wife has lupus so COVID could kill her. We are trying to get her to do remote instruction until a vaccine exists. Or I might just have her resign if she can't. It's a terrible set of choices.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DruidTM
In theory that’s a good idea. In reality 1/3 of the kids, at the least, get themselves up and don’t even see a parent in the morning.
Yeah, just punting on it.
Temps are one of those things that by and large medical professionals and scientists are saying really are not particularly helpful as a screening tool, but are easy and simple so it is easy to just expect it.
 
My wife, a teacher, has lupus and gets extremely sick in a lot of different ways. We're trying for kids. I'm legitimately considering having her quit her job until we get a vaccine. It's just not worth rolling the dice with her and potentially my baby's life for $45,000.
Life in 2020 ... Best wishes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lilspainishflea
I don’t know FL specifically but overall it’s ticking up.

I read something yesterday that said the death lag might even be longer than it was originally. With more testing and earlier diagnosing deaths may take longer to occur. On the flip side treatment is better (ventilators being a last resort and laying people on their stomachs to name 2). So what that suggests is that we may need to wait another 3-4 weeks to have a real idea of death rates.
Yeah.
Even with all the positive things mitigating it, the # of infections have been on a clear uptick for weeks, so we are going to see some pretty ugly mortality #s fairly soon. July7th was the most reported deaths since June 10th.
Reports of hospitals being overwhelmed in Florida, Arizona and Texas in particular ...
 
Yeah.
Even with all the positive things mitigating it, the # of infections have been on a clear uptick for weeks, so we are going to see some pretty ugly mortality #s fairly soon. July7th was the most reported deaths since June 10th.
Reports of hospitals being overwhelmed in Florida, Arizona and Texas in particular ...

"Ugly" is a relative term. If the infected prove to be almost entirely younger folks the mortality numbers although they may/will go up may not become "ugly" if by that you mean to levels like we saw in March/April when all the nursing home deaths were happening. We will find out what the reality proves to be in due course.
 
My wife, a teacher, has lupus and gets extremely sick in a lot of different ways. We're trying for kids. I'm legitimately considering having her quit her job until we get a vaccine. It's just not worth rolling the dice with her and potentially my baby's life for $45,000.

Quit? She should be paid to stay home. Even Trump said at-risk teachers shouldn't go back.
 
"Ugly" is a relative term. If the infected prove to be almost entirely younger folks the mortality numbers although they may/will go up may not become "ugly" if by that you mean to levels like we saw in March/April when all the nursing home deaths were happening. We will find out what the reality proves to be in due course.

Ugly also goes beyond just deaths. Still a lot of unknowns regarding long term consequences for some infected people.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jeffburgh
Quit? She should be paid to stay home. Even Trump said at-risk teachers shouldn't go back.

Trump says a lot of things and rarely follows through on any of them. Particularly when it comes to financial benefits for working-class people.

We will pursue a work-from-home accommodation under the ADA if it comes to that. But obviously that's dependent upon whether or not Cobb County offers remote learning. Schools don't have to grant accommodations if they're not feasible (like teachers being outside of the classroom).
 
Who says the kids are completely safe?Ive always believed this kids=safe was a myth...it makes no sense given everything most people know from their own experience... kids pick up viruses and pass em on to parents constantly... at best it appears kids could be a vector.

https://www.childrensmovementflorid...ive-for-coronavirus-in-florida-12-have-mis-c/

There is no such thing as "completely safe" in life ever and no one should expect it to be. If it is actually true (as reported somewhere) that the mortality rate for kids for kids infected with Covid is only half the mortality rate for kids infected with the common flu then it should be a "no never mind" as far as the risk to healthy kids themselves is concerned.

Kids spreading Covid to at risk and older adults is a separate issue to be concerned about. There have been so many conflicting claims surrounding that topic that it is difficult to know what to believe.

Overall, on this and other Covid issues it is extremely difficult to distinguish between what views/actions are too overconfident and which are chicken-little "the sky is falling" ones. The mass media (even politics aside), as they always do about anything, anytime, sensationalize to sell advertising so they aren't very helpful in sorting things out to find the underlying reality.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pitt-girl
So what is your advice for all the families that have a grandparent(s) that help support school age children and are in contact with them on a regular basis? Are you trying to say everyone must attend a brick and mortar in person for the 180 day school calendar? What is the plan for teachers that are 55 or older and/or have a higher risk to COVID?
Are you actually trying to be logical on the lair?
 
The largest Pediatrician organization has called for children to be in person school this fall.

"The guidance says "schools are fundamental to child and adolescent development and well-being."

The AAP cites "mounting evidence" that transmission of the coronavirus by young children is uncommon, partly because they are less likely to contract it in the first place.

On the other hand, the AAP argues that based on the nation's experience this spring, remote learning is likely to result in severe learning loss and increased social isolation. Social isolation, in turn, can breed serious social, emotional and health issues: "child and adolescent physical or sexual abuse, substance use, depression, and suicidal ideation." Furthermore, these impacts will be visited more severely on Black and brown children, as well as low-income children and those with learning disabilities."

https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...atricians-call-for-in-person-school-this-fall
Schools that have opened up have transmitted Covid like crazy. It works this way for just about any other big, and it will work the same for Covid. If it is Ok to open schools, is is OK to attend sports or the arts. In my opinion, it should be. We need to have church services, bars, clubs, funerals, weddings, sports, ballets, and even very bad elementary school band concerts. If I need to pick bigger chance of dying or this Indefinite half-assed existence I am all for playing Russian Roulette.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pitt90seven
Schools have to be open. Elementary through HS anyway. I actually think all colleges should be online only until there's a vaccine because those college kids living in close quarters are going to infect the hell out of each other and spread it to old people. Plus, those kids can simply take a semester or 2 off if they dont like online college. You can't homeschool elementary and middle school kids. Especially not if the parents are working. Opening those schools is more important than ANYTHING besides hospitals and essential workers being able to operate.

I believe schools should be open 5 days per week for all elementary schools and probably middle schools. High schools, I'd prefer 5 days but can live with 2 or 3.

As I said, homeschooling is simply not an option. Its not a real education. I would prefer they just literally shut all schools down for the entire year and then start the 21-22 year in the grade you were supposed to be for 20-21 than homeschooling most of the time. Early education is too important.
Homeschooling absolutely is a real education. It can and does work for many many kids each year. So does cyber school.
 
My wife, a teacher, has lupus and gets extremely sick in a lot of different ways. We're trying for kids. I'm legitimately considering having her quit her job until we get a vaccine. It's just not worth rolling the dice with her and potentially my baby's life for $45,000.
Serious question: could she teach remotely? Not, is it allowed, but would it be practical? Could have a parent volunteer sit in the room for safety and a big screen zoom meeting each day. Not ideal, but could make things more safe.
 
It is actually ticking down. I posted the statistics link above.

How many deaths can be attributed to premature ventilators and wrong treatment?

Well there is this case per Fox News. Oh wait, not a ventilator death. https://www.foxnews.com/health/two-...ended-church-party-with-100-people-report.amp

Also, Florida cases and hospital open beds can be found at floridacovidaction.com for every hospital in the state. It does not list additional beds that can be converted or the additional beds Desantis authorized last night for Jackson in Miami.

Increased testing is good. Positivity should go down with increased testing like New York, not shoot up to 15% daily like down here. And I am not a fan of coumo or his nursing home policy. Lots of leaders have made bad decisions, but at least northeast has more control now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheSpecialSauce
"Ugly" is a relative term. If the infected prove to be almost entirely younger folks the mortality numbers although they may/will go up may not become "ugly" if by that you mean to levels like we saw in March/April when all the nursing home deaths were happening. We will find out what the reality proves to be in due course.

I would edit to uglier.

There is going to be an uptick even with improvement in treatment and the working theory that it is mostly younger people and we are going a better job fire walling our elderly, just too many cases.

God willing it won't be on the scale it was there, but these were the rolling sounds of thunder before the death toll started building in NYC.

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/California-hospitals-transfer-COVID-patients-15389470.php

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-texas-hospitals-capacity-surge-cases/



https://www.wmfe.org/43-florida-hos...s-but-hospitals-say-they-have-capacity/158709

https://abcnews.go.com/US/leaving-hospital-tears-arizona-doctors-worry-icus-fill/story?id=71519097
 
Homeschooling absolutely is a real education. It can and does work for many many kids each year. So does cyber school.

Meh.

It works for families that are built for it. Have the combination of resources, a stay at home parent who is able to get education and oversee it with their children.

So, yes, it does "work."

Most families, by far, are not built for it.
 
Schools that have opened up have transmitted Covid like crazy. It works this way for just about any other big, and it will work the same for Covid. If it is Ok to open schools, is is OK to attend sports or the arts. In my opinion, it should be. We need to have church services, bars, clubs, funerals, weddings, sports, ballets, and even very bad elementary school band concerts. If I need to pick bigger chance of dying or this Indefinite half-assed existence I am all for playing Russian Roulette.

we don't need ballet.
 
No. These doctors are smart enough to know better. By saying "kids don't die of COVID, so reopen schools!" they're giving away the game. Their argument is like saying teams with more kneeldowns win more games, so kneeldowns are the best play in the book. Their argument is a small truth in service of a big lie.
But they're not saying that. And they're not "giving away" the game. Here's what they (medical doctors who are much more knowledgeable and have taken the Hippocratic oath) said:

"The AAP cites "mounting evidence" that transmission of the coronavirus by young children is uncommon, partly because they are less likely to contract it in the first place.

On the other hand, the AAP argues that based on the nation's experience this spring, remote learning is likely to result in severe learning loss and increased social isolation. Social isolation, in turn, can breed serious social, emotional and health issues: "child and adolescent physical or sexual abuse, substance use, depression, and suicidal ideation." Furthermore, these impacts will be visited more severely on Black and brown children, as well as low-income children and those with learning disabilities."
 
Schools that have opened up have transmitted Covid like crazy. It works this way for just about any other big, and it will work the same for Covid. If it is Ok to open schools, is is OK to attend sports or the arts. In my opinion, it should be. We need to have church services, bars, clubs, funerals, weddings, sports, ballets, and even very bad elementary school band concerts. If I need to pick bigger chance of dying or this Indefinite half-assed existence I am all for playing Russian Roulette.
Not saying you're wrong but what schools? I didn't realize any had opened yet.
 
Nobody knows what’s going to happen in PA yet. Transportation, lunch (which some kids don’t get daily at home), support staff, high-risk student and teacher population, and nursing services are all factors that the general public tends to ignore because they see the school day only through their own or their kid’s experience.
 
My wife, a teacher, has lupus and gets extremely sick in a lot of different ways. We're trying for kids. I'm legitimately considering having her quit her job until we get a vaccine. It's just not worth rolling the dice with her and potentially my baby's life for $45,000.
I wish you and your family the best. The health of a loved one should come first.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lilspainishflea
Those who receive their news from left-leaning media sources will debunk this article because it's medical doctor author is affiliated with the Hoover Institution which is a right-leaning think tank.

Note: Politics aside, the same position about schools needing to be reopened is also the position of the National Academy of Pediatrics. It seems to be mainly a number of public school teachers and administrators who remain afraid of reopening the schools.
The teachers unions just want to get paid not to work.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fk_Pitt
Serious question: could she teach remotely? Not, is it allowed, but would it be practical? Could have a parent volunteer sit in the room for safety and a big screen zoom meeting each day. Not ideal, but could make things more safe.

That's what we are trying for. Cobb County is still figuring it out - how many kids will be remote, how to assign teachers (across grades, subject matter, etc.), how many teachers they need. They just started taking requests to do remote learning around July 1 so nobody knows anything. Back to school for the teachers is in 3 weeks and for kids about 2 weeks after that. We are hoping that she can get one of those positions. If not, we'll go from there. Her salary won't make or break us but my industry has been heavily affected so things are already very tight. Nevertheless, I would rather have her healthy than the extra $30,000 or whatever she might bring in before we get a vaccine.
 
But they're not saying that. And they're not "giving away" the game. Here's what they (medical doctors who are much more knowledgeable and have taken the Hippocratic oath) said:

"The AAP cites "mounting evidence" that transmission of the coronavirus by young children is uncommon, partly because they are less likely to contract it in the first place.

On the other hand, the AAP argues that based on the nation's experience this spring, remote learning is likely to result in severe learning loss and increased social isolation. Social isolation, in turn, can breed serious social, emotional and health issues: "child and adolescent physical or sexual abuse, substance use, depression, and suicidal ideation." Furthermore, these impacts will be visited more severely on Black and brown children, as well as low-income children and those with learning disabilities."

I was specifically referencing the article posted by OP, which was an opinion piece by several MDs. They kicked things off by citing statistics showing that kids rarely die of COVID. That's true but misses the larger point.

You can't just send kids out alone. They need adults - on the bus, in the school, admin, etc. Some (many?) of those adults are at great risk because of their medical or age profile. Simply saying that "kids won't die!" is the easy way out and those doctors know it's a rhetorical sleight of hand (and a weak one at that). I didn't see any discussion in the article about how many teachers, bus drivers, day care workers, etc. would be affected. That's what I meant by hiding the ball.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jeffburgh
New cases, yesterday: Germany: 298 Denmark: 10 Norway: 11 Sweden: 57 United States: 55,442
Quote Tweet

Donald J. Trump
In Germany, Denmark, Norway, Sweden and many other countries, SCHOOLS ARE OPEN WITH NO PROBLEMS

He isn't wrong btw, I think schools can be relatively safe as I said before, especially with a mix of distance and in-person. But the key was they opened schools after their decline in cases, not in the middle of a surge.
 
That mostly measures how much (or I should say, how little) testing they have done.

France has had 29,000 deaths, which is definitely high (only a bit lower than the US per capita) -- though they're down to around 20 deaths per day nationally now.

Part of my point is that they have gotten it very low while we are setting off new outbreaks in every tourist state, which then spreads it around the country.

Our deaths per day are down (for now), around 550-600. But that's still about 5-6 times worse per capita than France and will encourage us to keep shutting down and reopening while most of the rest of the world will be able to more fully open.

And that's the bad example! Germany is around 8 deaths per day, Canada around a dozen, a lot of smaller Asian and European countries at 0-1 deaths per day -- still much better per capita even with smaller populations.

Btw on the original topic, I'm not super worried about PA schools. I think we'll see in PA a mix of online and in person learning (A days and B days type of thing to make smaller class sizes to spread people out.) And schools will close and go online if there are outbreaks. Older school staff should be paid to stay away, masks will be required. If it gets bad enough, our governor will shut it down.

But I am very worried about the country. We still will have mass outbreaks in meat packing plants, jails, nursing homes etc because regulation and safety in general in this country is poor. Tourist states will continue to help us drag this crisis out until there is a vaccine while the rest of the world moves on relatively healthy. And in states like Florida where the cases are high and the state will require 5 day a week in person school, that will kill people.

Why would we pay older staff to stay away? If they can provide teaching services from home that is comensurate with their salary great. If not they should be laid off like everyone else. Or, they can decide to stay in school and continue to work. They still have a choice. Children and parents are not being given a choice, nor are the millions that were shut out of work without having a say.

I guess I am am a little more cautious about throwing away a couple years of child development. I don't think online learning is nearly as effective with the younger ones. The elderly and those with medical conditions should stay at home. The rest of us should do everything we can within reason to help slow the spread.

That being said, if it is dangerous for children to be at school then close them. I agree. Just don't close them down because older teachers might get sick.
 
Why would we pay older staff to stay away? If they can provide teaching services from home that is comensurate with their salary great. If not they should be laid off like everyone else. Or, they can decide to stay in school and continue to work. They still have a choice. Children and parents are not being given a choice, nor are the millions that were shut out of work without having a say.

I guess I am am a little more cautious about throwing away a couple years of child development. I don't think online learning is nearly as effective with the younger ones. The elderly and those with medical conditions should stay at home. The rest of us should do everything we can within reason to help slow the spread.

That being said, if it is dangerous for children to be at school then close them. I agree. Just don't close them down because older teachers might get sick.

100% agree that in school learning in INFINITELY better for the vast majority of K-12 students. But, you can't just lay off workers like this.
 
100% agree that in school learning in INFINITELY better for the vast majority of K-12 students. But, you can't just lay off workers like this.
Sure you can. We already did. There is no reason why public employees should not feel the same pain as private employees. Try as best as you can to accommodate them, but if they can't work in a productive way that also satisfies their health requirements..... sorry. Time for a lay off. It happens ever day in the private work face. Also, there will be a lot of young parents who will have to quit working if the schools close down. Someone has to be home with the young ones while they do their online schooling. These young parents are the ones who need money the most. I know well, because I was there myself a few years ago.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fk_Pitt
Who says the kids are completely safe?Ive always believed this kids=safe was a myth...it makes no sense given everything most people know from their own experience... kids pick up viruses and pass em on to parents constantly... at best it appears kids could be a vector.

https://www.childrensmovementflorid...ive-for-coronavirus-in-florida-12-have-mis-c/
School Children Don’t Spread Coronavirus, French Study Shows

School kids don’t appear to transmit the new coronavirus to peers or teachers, a French study found, weighing in on the crucial topic of children’s role in propagating Covid-19.

Scientists at Institut Pasteur studied 1,340 people in Crepy-en-Valois, a town northeast of Paris that suffered an outbreak in February and March, including 510 students from six primary schools. They found three probable cases among kids that didn’t lead to more infections among other pupils or teachers.

The study confirms that children appear to show fewer telltale symptoms than adults and be less contagious, providing a justification for school reopenings in countries from Denmark to Switzerland. The researchers found that 61% of the parents of infected kids had the coronavirus, compared with about 7% of parents of healthy ones, suggesting it was the parents who had infected their offspring rather than the other way around.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...n-don-t-spread-coronavirus-french-study-shows
 
School Children Don’t Spread Coronavirus, French Study Shows

School kids don’t appear to transmit the new coronavirus to peers or teachers, a French study found, weighing in on the crucial topic of children’s role in propagating Covid-19.

Scientists at Institut Pasteur studied 1,340 people in Crepy-en-Valois, a town northeast of Paris that suffered an outbreak in February and March, including 510 students from six primary schools. They found three probable cases among kids that didn’t lead to more infections among other pupils or teachers.

The study confirms that children appear to show fewer telltale symptoms than adults and be less contagious, providing a justification for school reopenings in countries from Denmark to Switzerland. The researchers found that 61% of the parents of infected kids had the coronavirus, compared with about 7% of parents of healthy ones, suggesting it was the parents who had infected their offspring rather than the other way around.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...n-don-t-spread-coronavirus-french-study-shows

They can open up because they have a small number of cases. Arizona is on the verge of picking and choosing who gets to live.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jeffburgh
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT