State of the Program (5-23-21) -- One Fan's Assessment
- Thread starter DC_Area_Panther
- Start date
Maybe a coach that blocked the transfer of a player that is still on the roster of his new team?
So, we are still blaming our problems on Kevin Stallings. Unbelievable.
Well, even though Stallings was responsible for "putting the final nail in the coffin" and fully crashing a program that was already on a negative trajectory, it is now time to move on. The past cannot be changed.
IMHO, Capel has only about the next 12 months to show real progress toward turning things around or the search for our next coach will need to begin.
IMHO, Capel has only about the next 12 months to show real progress toward turning things around or the search for our next coach will need to begin.
Last edited:
12 months sounds pretty fair.
Heather will not be able to handle the change if needed, I suspect.
Obviously JC hasn’t produced the kind of bb program that we all want , but the real question is what do the Pitt big wigs really want and what are they willing to do to achieve better results ? They’re not so naive as to not know what it takes to win in the big revenue sports .
Flip 2 or 3 close games Pitts way and they‘re not really that far away from being mediocre . Mediocre will never be the company line , but I’d bet that’s all they’re really after . Clean mediocre bb and Fb programs .
It’s not that they don’t want to win , but to win they need all the stars to line up , it happened for 10 yrs which was phenomenal, but I’m sure under current circumstances it won’t happen any time soon .
Last edited:
Things were worse in 67-72. Then we found a hoops coach in Westminister and a FB coach in Ames, Iowa. The GP's were founded in 1971 I think...I joined in 1972. A lot of good things happened for a while, hoops joined the BE and was mostly relevant in the 80s, again post Y2K.
The admin screwed up FB for a long time, but things look a bit more promising now. The Barnes debacle has been discussed enough. No one knows if or when we'll recover.
We have an AD with a pulse, and a Chancellor who hopefully learned a lesson. Maybe some better days are coming our way.
Heck ... there's a good sized group still blaming Dixon.
He desperately needs a solid class SIGNED in November. A solid class buys him an extra year or 2.
Well, for the most part at your standard University they want first and foremost "diversity" and a "the student is always right" attitude. The latter is what seems difficult to navigate, but HCJC looks to have the right temperment, although implementation ( judging by team building ) has been lacking. As far as Pitt having an African American head coach in football or basketball, it is certainly a positive if said individual can garner some success. If fact these are a couple reasons why HCJC isn't leaving anytime soon, IHMO
In contrast, at the bluebloods, nothing matters but winning.
There’s a middle ground somewhere and if Pitt ever wants to fill up the Pete or HF on any consistent basis they need to find it . I seriously doubt coaching changes mean a thing until Pitts able to attract better bb and Fb players because they’re unable to attract any HC who can bring those players to Pitt .
I certainly agree that Pitt is not extreme and that there is middle ground. I had to read your second point several times, but I get it, I have always hated the idea of bringing in people like Tom Bradley to "recruit" believing it wasn't gonna work because Pitt is nothing like PSU or Duke, now we have proof. Hopefully, if JC is unable to get it going, the next coach will be a mover and shaker that has won under several different circumstances.
So now it's year 4, we've got a center, NCAAT or bust. I was hopeful Capel could get it done in 2 years and expected it to be done by year 3.
If that’s your expectation, cool. I’m sure you’re not alone. But if anyone looks at this roster and see an NCAA bid you have to be an eternal optimist.
I expect Capel to have another failed season based off my initial expectations. I'd enjoy an NIT bid but that wasn't what I was looking for heading into year 4.
You need to reset expectations if you expect an NIT bid this coming season I believe. The NIT is probably this team's absolute ceiling but not the likely outcome, IMHO. Progress, if any at all--given the probable lineup/depth shown below--would be to finish a game or two over 0.500 overall (but under 0.500 in ACC play) with no post ACCT play. But, I suppose we can always hope for a double breakout season (Hugley and Jeffrees) for something more.
Center (5) -- Hugley (SO); Gueye (GS); Collier (SO)
Forward (4) -- Oladapo (SR); Payton (JR); Collier (SO)
Wing (3) -- Jeffress (SO); Santos (FR)
Guard (2) -- Horton (RS_JR); Sibande (SR); Burton (SR)
Point (1) -- Odukale (S0); Burton (SR); Sibande (SR)
I don't expect an NIT bid, I'm saying I'd definitely enjoy an NIT caliber season despite expecting Capel to deliver much more in his 4th season. Having a team full of players that respect one another would be progress. Year 4 and we have no visible culture or team identity. I have no clue why Justin ended up on the team without his brother. Jeff brought his brother. Was Julian not good enough? Like I said earlier, my standard for year 4 in Capels tenure was NCAA or bust. (Not going to happen..) I'd enjoy the NIT, (because it's more than what I expect for this season) but it isn't what I was looking for in year 4. Year 4 you should have a culture established and be shooting for NCAAT bids, not NIT, and not a couple games above .500.
With this team, players and coach, an NIT bid is the absolute ceiling in any year. I'd have to see Capel upgrade his recruiting and see him be a much better game day coach to expect anything more than that. Then there's always how he can't win past January. Proof is needed before we can expect anything close to the results we'd all like to see. And I haven't seen any proof yet.
Definitely an NCAAT bid would be the expectation in year 4 of any coach. We're not even close.
Good nutshell synopsis. Those of us who lived through all that can certainly relate.
And no doubt that hand wringing about what Pitt did to themself in the past is a useless exercise. Of course while Pitt has continued to go through periods of largely self inflicted misery, many competitors have continued to push ahead and thrive. This has served to widen the gap that Pitt is faced with trying to close now.
Pitt voluntarily gave up their seat at the banquet table long ago. With the huge financial rewards potentially available now because of TV, there is tremendous competition to get a seat at the big table now. We’ll see what - or IF - Pitt is willing to attempt to make a serious effort to get back there again.
I would agree with you on that expectation were we still living in the former NCAA basketball world before transferring became as ubiquitous and well before it became as easy as it now is with the recently changed transfer rules. [Not to mention Covid thowing a monkey wrench into every program last season and destroying every team's continuity.]
Although I am very disappointed in Capel's results to date---I am no longer sure that it is the appropriate expectation for any coach to be getting from a total bottom of the barrel team to the NCAAs in year #4.
IMHO, rebuilding jobs have become infinitely harder because as soon as certain recruits help a team to make W-L progress some bigger name school will immediately swoop in and steal them away.
The current situation is a truly sad state of affairs for fans of any school not among the traditional "bluebloods."
how many years is an appropriate expectation to go from bottom of the barrel to ncaat?
People doing gymnastics to explain one simple fact: Capel sucks. He can bring in even more members of his extended family and he will still suck. Over-paid and mid to late season loser.
Surprisingly I totally disagree . If anything I believe it’s now become harder for a downtrodden program to elevate itself to a tournament team . When they get players who produce far above expectations , aka JC , if they decide to continue their college careers they’ll transfer to the better programs . The better players in the portal won’t go to programs like Pitt .
The bright side of this new reality is that schools might decide to work the transfer portal at the expense of the high school kids . Why recruit a Wil Jeffress when you might have the opportunity to sign him or an equivalent player with 2 yrs of college experience . This might provide more opportunity with hs kids for schools like Pitt . Once signed you need to find a way to keep them which into today’s world will be the hard part .
By your logic, why would will Jeffress stay at Pitt beyond this or next year if he develops and Pitt can’t compete? You’re basically saying every bottom tier program is hopeless and I could not disagree more.
If you are constantly evolving as a staff and give kids unique opportunities to show their skills you can reinvent your team and program every year through the portal. It shouldn’t be this hard.
And stop unfollowing kids because they don’t go to your spot initially. They could come on the rebound soon.
As I said the hard part for any program like Pitt will be to keep your good players from leaving for greener pastures . If Wil becomes a star and Pitt isn’t winning by then it wouldn’t surprise me if he’d choose to leave .
Just like Cam who with only offers from Rice and Pitt coming out of hs moving on to UNC . He didn’t transfer to TCU where his coach was he went to an elite program . The prom queen almost always beats out the girl next door .
I doubt Pitt will ever lose out on a kid the second time around because he’s unfollowed after initially rejecting Pitt . If he wants to come here I doubt that would be an issue .
When Pitt was still a winning program under Jamie , making the tournament every yr , he never got the sought after grad transfers . Why would it be easier now ?
That remains a big unknown. College basketball has moved into unexplored territory.
A strong recruiter could get it done in 2 years. 3 years is being hopeful. 4 years is still the expectation. The issue isn't the portal, it's the lack of momentum.
All that stands between Pitt and success at bb and Fb is the players ! Without a strong booster group assisting in providing what strong recruiters need to seal the deal you get what you got at Pitt a mediocre Fb team and a bb program struggling to get out from the bottom of a tough conference .
Then Pitt should move to D3. This is ridiculous. Pitt has one of the best *assistant coach* recruiters in the country as a head coach. Not every kid is getting paid. Make a smart plan, go after kids you can get and finish. The all or nothing is crew is absurd. If Pitt is so overmatched in recruiting they should drop to D3 in all sports but volleyball honestly. The excuses are pathetic.
But , I’m also a realist .
My realistic expectations of this program is that of a .500 conference team with an occasional divergence of 2 or 3 games in either direction . I also believe that JC will be able to attain this . There’s no reason to drop to D3 because you can’t compete with the teams at the top of the ACC .
Pitt was able to become a player in the national scene in both Fb and bb with the help of the Golden Panthers which shows that it can be done . What makes JD run at Pitt that much more remarkable was he did it without booster involvement .
There is no reason at a P5 school with the resources that Pitt has that you can’t turn around a program to a tournament level within 3 years.
The people who cite the last Stallings year as a problem need to realize that it was really a gift to Capel as he could clean house and start to integrate a larger number of “his guys” than most coaches can initially. Bottoming out so badly and then clearing out players allowed him to bring in the Toney/McGowens/XJ class that, conceivably, should have been the core group that elevated the program.
It’s encouraging that the staff seems to be bringing in lots of guys now that in person recruiting is back. It’s time to close and not stop recruiting until Spring and the LOI is signed
Not one recruit in the 22 class was in HS when the 0-18 season happened. Not one of them cares. The only people that use this as an excuse still are weirdo fans. Coaches making millions of dollars don’t need fans to make excuses for them.
Similar threads
