State of the Program (5-23-21) -- One Fan's Assessment

[HailToPitt1985]

I would agree with you on that expectation were we still living in the former NCAA basketball world before transferring became as ubiquitous and well before it became as easy as it now is with the recently changed transfer rules. [Not to mention Covid thowing a monkey wrench into every program last season and destroying every team's continuity.]

Although I am very disappointed in Capel's results to date---I am no longer sure that it is the appropriate expectation for any coach to be getting from a total bottom of the barrel team to the NCAAs in year #4.

IMHO, rebuilding jobs have become infinitely harder because as soon as certain recruits help a team to make W-L progress some bigger name school will immediately swoop in and steal them away.

The current situation is a truly sad state of affairs for fans of any school not among the traditional "bluebloods."

I do agree that college sports is generally pretty pathetic now, especially in the 2 major sports, with the portal and kids jumping ship with no commitment to a program. It's not worth watching, for the most part.

But you're making excuses for Capel. He does a fine job making his own excuses. I don't think we need to help him. If he is such a fine recruiter, as some people think he is, he should have had this program in the NIT last year and the NCAAT this year, regardless of the portal. Bare minimum, NIT this year, no excuses. I do understand that is a challenge. But good coaches overcome a challenge like that and get results.

 

[WeaverIsComing]

But , I’m also a realist .

My realistic expectations of this program is that of a .500 conference team with an occasional divergence of 2 or 3 games in either direction . I also believe that JC will be able to attain this . There’s no reason to drop to D3 because you can’t compete with the teams at the top of the ACC .

Pitt was able to become a player in the national scene in both Fb and bb with the help of the Golden Panthers which shows that it can be done . What makes JD run at Pitt that much more remarkable was he did it without booster involvement .

How many years is a realistic expectation to go from bottom of the barrel to .500 in conference?

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

How many years is a realistic expectation to go from bottom of the barrel to .500 in conference?

2. Hell if we don’t have our 2nd and 3rd best players leave last year it was possible to win 2 of those final games. Unfortunately it was SUCH a drop off behind XJ and Toney they couldn’t even barely compete.

 

[Drew1208]

How many years is a realistic expectation to go from bottom of the barrel to .500 in conference?

Historically 4 years. That's just the numbers. Rare but happens in 3 with a zero win team.

But that's all gone. It's done. It got squabbled and that's over. We are Back to a reset. He's got a couple years to try again or he'll be gone.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Not one recruit in the 22 class was in HS when the 0-18 season happened. Not one of them cares. The only people that use this as an excuse still are weirdo fans. Coaches making millions of dollars don’t need fans to make excuses for them.

I would imagine at this point that if you asked Capel why we didn't get any particular recruit that the 0 for the ACC season never comes up even once. It's time for people to let that go. Past time.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

I would imagine at this point that if you asked Capel why we didn't get any particular recruit that the 0 for the ACC season never comes up even once. It's time for people to let that go. Past time.

Correct. Now the issue is consecutive losing seasons with no post season play and near botton of the ACC. You can bet coaches of shools we are recruiting against are using that now. "Don't go there you won't win and will never see the NCAAT" --will be the mantra.

 

[FireballZ]

Correct. Now the issue is consecutive losing seasons with no post season play and near botton of the ACC. You can bet coaches of shools we are recruiting against are using that now. "Don't go there you won't win and will never see the NCAAT" --will be the mantra.

Your absolute obsession with the .500 number the last several years is straight “rain man” weird.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Well -- when your last three Capel seasons ended 14-19. 16-17 and 10-12 -- a below mediocre look-- getting over 0.500 by 1-3 games would at least give the appearance that some positive progress is being made and could make recruiting at least a little easier (perhaps).

 

[HailToPitt1985]

I find it interesting that now we'd be thrilled if Capel could get us over 0.500 for the year while not so long ago we were routinely winning 25+ games a year. This program has fallen badly and I don't see anything that makes me think it will get better in the next few years. Players leaving, lack of quality recruiting, a sub-par coaching staff and a head coach that hasn't found an excuse he didn't like, and a toxic culture in the program overall. It's very frustrating and disappointing.

Everything goes in cycles and I'm sure our time will come and we'll once again be one of the hunted and near the top of the league. But I doubt very much that it will be under the current administration and coaches.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

I find it interesting that now we'd be thrilled if Capel could get us over 0.500 for the year while not so long ago we were routinely winning 25+ games a year. This program has fallen badly and I don't see anything that makes me think it will get better in the next few years. Players leaving, lack of quality recruiting, a sub-par coaching staff and a head coach that hasn't found an excuse he didn't like, and a toxic culture in the program overall. It's very frustrating and disappointing.

Everything goes in cycles and I'm sure our time will come and we'll once again be one of the hunted and near the top of the league. But I doubt very much that it will be under the current administration and coaches.

Thinking that there’s a time in the foresee future that Pitt bb will be “near the top of the league “ is some faulty thinking !

A new coach , new uniforms , updated faculties etc won’t do it , even hiring the greatest recruiter out there won’t do it until Pitt gives him the ok to play the game the way the big boys do .

Saying that makes me appreciate the 10 yrs of excellence of the Dixon yrs even more .

.500 in conference record will be a great season until Pitt has an active booster organization .

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

I find it interesting that now we'd be thrilled if Capel could get us over 0.500 for the year while not so long ago we were routinely winning 25+ games a year. This program has fallen badly and I don't see anything that makes me think it will get better in the next few years. Players leaving, lack of quality recruiting, a sub-par coaching staff and a head coach that hasn't found an excuse he didn't like, and a toxic culture in the program overall. It's very frustrating and disappointing.

Everything goes in cycles and I'm sure our time will come and we'll once again be one of the hunted and near the top of the league. But I doubt very much that it will be under the current administration and coaches.

I will be far from "Thrilled" if Capel gets Pitt over 0.500 this coming season. I had hoped, even expected, that to happen in Capel's second season. And, I certainly want to see 25 win seasons again.

However, getting over 0.500 does look like it would be a decent accomplishment for this coming season---only because the current roster doesn't appear capable of more than that regrdless of who would be coach.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Thinking that there’s a time in the foresee future that Pitt bb will be “near the top of the league “ is some faulty thinking !

A new coach , new uniforms , updated faculties etc won’t do it , even hiring the greatest recruiter out there won’t do it until Pitt gives him the ok to play the game the way the big boys do .

Saying that makes me appreciate the 10 yrs of excellence of the Dixon yrs even more .

.500 in conference record will be a great season until Pitt has an active booster organization .

Well, I wasn't even talking 0.500 in conference. I don't see that as even remotely possible next season.

Nevertheless, sometime in the future a season with a 10-10 ACC record could happen and it would probably translate to a 19-12 record heading to the ACCT. That would likely mean an NIT bid at a minimum.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Well, I wasn't even talking 0.500 in conference. I don't see that as even remotely possible next season.

Nevertheless, sometime in the future a season with a 10-10 ACC record could happen and it would probably translate to a 19-12 record heading to the ACCT. That would likely mean an NIT bid at a minimum.

.500 in conference should be the benchmark of a successful season until the administration decides it will play ball !

ps …. Next season there’s just too many unknown factors to predict how good /bad the season will go .

 

[HailToPitt1985]

I will be far from "Thrilled" if Capel gets Pitt over 0.500 this coming season. I had hoped, even expected, that to happen in Capel's second season. And, I certainly want to see 25 win seasons again.

However, getting over 0.500 does look like it would be a decent accomplishment for this coming season---only because the current roster doesn't appear capable of more than that regrdless of who would be coach.

A season of over 0.500 total (not ACC) would be the expectation in Capel's second year. It won't even happen in his 4th year. I agree that doing that would be an accomplishment for Capel, considering that you are correct in that we don't have the players. And we don't have the coach. So if it happens, he'd be coaching over his head.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

I find it interesting that now we'd be thrilled if Capel could get us over 0.500 for the year while not so long ago we were routinely winning 25+ games a year. This program has fallen badly and I don't see anything that makes me think it will get better in the next few years. Players leaving, lack of quality recruiting, a sub-par coaching staff and a head coach that hasn't found an excuse he didn't like, and a toxic culture in the program overall. It's very frustrating and disappointing.

Everything goes in cycles and I'm sure our time will come and we'll once again be one of the hunted and near the top of the league. But I doubt very much that it will be under the current administration and coaches.

He’s got catchy slogans though!

 

[HailToPitt1985]

I know it seems I'm picking on Capel and have something against him for whatever reason. I don't know the man and don't care to. What I do know is that when he first came here, I was very optimistic about him and thought he was a pretty decent guy in every way. I was hopeful. Into his 4th year now, this is what I can't stand. I can't stand someone getting paid obscene amounts of money to not do his job while giving excuses why he isn't doing his job. In a real world, corporate situation, he would have been fired long ago.

I'll be the first to admit I was wrong about him if this year, he takes us to 20+ wins, which is where the program should be now, and into the NCAAT. Or even 18 or 19 wins and the NIT. I don't think I'll be making any admissions of being wrong any time soon.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

I know it seems I'm picking on Capel and have something against him for whatever reason. I don't know the man and don't care to. What I do know is that when he first came here, I was very optimistic about him and thought he was a pretty decent guy in every way. I was hopeful. Into his 4th year now, this is what I can't stand. I can't stand someone getting paid obscene amounts of money to not do his job while giving excuses why he isn't doing his job. In a real world, corporate situation, he would have been fired long ago.

I'll be the first to admit I was wrong about him if this year, he takes us to 20+ wins, which is where the program should be now, and into the NCAAT. Or even 18 or 19 wins and the NIT. I don't think I'll be making any admissions of being wrong any time soon.

People keep whining about his contract , what difference does it make to you what the man is being paid ? Are you paying it ? If they paid him less would they send you a check or lower ticket prices ?

JC took over the program that had the worst D 1 roster in the country and miraculously convinced three pretty good recruits to come here . Unfortunately he tied his sail to the wrong group of guys .

What Pitt needs is for Femi , Jeffress , Hugley to form a solid foundation and that somehow JC can convince a real difference maker to come here . Firing him and starting over is just one expensive bad idea right now .

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

"Firing him and starting over is just one expensive bad idea right now."

I agree with you on the "right now." However, if things have not changed for the better 12 months from now, my opinion (and possibly yours?) could be very different on this question.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

"Firing him and starting over is just one expensive bad idea right now."

I agree with you on the "right now." However, if things have not changed for the better 12 months from now, my opinion (and possibly yours?) could be very different on this question.

Two yrs is my time table and while on court success is important I want to see three things
1) stability
2) player development
3) recruiting victories
If these are accomplished then he’s bought himself the final yrs on his contract .

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Two yrs is my time table and while on court success is important I want to see three things 1) stability 2) player development 3) recruiting victories If these are accomplished then he’s bought himself the final yrs on his contract .

Two yrs is my time table and while on court success is important I want to see three things
1) stability
2) player development
3) recruiting victories
If these are accomplished then he’s bought himself the final yrs on his contract .

This time next year we hopefully will have had a better season than last completed and a high quality recruit class signed tht promises an upper half of the ACC team for the 2022-23 season. If not Capel’s window of opportunity to be able to field a winner at Pitt will have probably be over, IMHO.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

People keep whining about his contract , what difference does it make to you what the man is being paid ? Are you paying it ? If they paid him less would they send you a check or lower ticket prices ?

JC took over the program that had the worst D 1 roster in the country and miraculously convinced three pretty good recruits to come here . Unfortunately he tied his sail to the wrong group of guys .

What Pitt needs is for Femi , Jeffress , Hugley to form a solid foundation and that somehow JC can convince a real difference maker to come here . Firing him and starting over is just one expensive bad idea right now .

What does that have to do with it? I want MY SCHOOL, the school that I have given many thousands of dollars to in tuition and contributions, to get their money's worth from their employees, including their coaches. They haven't gotten and they aren't getting their money's worth from Capel. Not even close.

The fact is the program is not stable, he's created a toxic culture here, his player development is minimal (with one exception), and he's had no recruiting victories. These are what YOU said you want to see. So when do you think we'll see these things happen with this coach? His clock is ticking and it has maybe another year until it hits midnight.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Agree about the clock ticking. Whenever a new coach is hired to turn around a program that is "in the toilet" there is a certain limited window of time to make it happen. If it doesn't happen within that window it likely won't because the "new coach is going to turn it around" selling point in recruiting is lost and opposing recruiters can efectively argue "Why go to that losing program it will never be turned around."

If it were not for a Covid-scrambled past season and the new NCAA unlimited one-time transfer rule hitting, Capel's window of opportunity would already be fully closed. As it is, the muddled situation caused by those two factors has left him, IMO, with his window still slightly open. What little is left of his window will end about a year from now. He desperately needs a top notch 2022 recruit class and to get it if he needs spring signings he may also need to produce a better and wining season W-L record in 2021-2022.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

What does that have to do with it? I want MY SCHOOL, the school that I have given many thousands of dollars to in tuition and contributions, to get their money's worth from their employees, including their coaches. They haven't gotten and they aren't getting their money's worth from Capel. Not even close.

The fact is the program is not stable, he's created a toxic culture here, his player development is minimal (with one exception), and he's had no recruiting victories. These are what YOU said you want to see. So when do you think we'll see these things happen with this coach? His clock is ticking and it has maybe another year until it hits midnight.

If you want to change coaches maybe you should write the check because Heathers not doing it . He’s got at least 2 yrs to show progress no matter how much you and others like Gary whine . I listed what he needs to do to fulfill his contract .

Bit if you worry about how the university spends it’s money how do sleep at night ?I’ve got way more important things to. worry about , like what’s on. Tv or what’s for dinner

 

[HailToPitt1985]

If you want to change coaches maybe you should write the check because Heathers not doing it . He’s got at least 2 yrs to show progress no matter how much you and others like Gary whine . I listed what he needs to do to fulfill his contract .

Bit if you worry about how the university spends it’s money how do sleep at night ?I’ve got way more important things to. worry about , like what’s on. Tv or what’s for dinner

No lost sleep here. I sleep fine. I'm a Pitt man through and through, but I've lost my passion and interest for Pitt sports until things change for the better in collegiate athletics in the 2 major sports. I don't see that happening. And you're right....what's on TV tonight and what's for dinner is vastly more important than Pitt basketball or Capel. Just remember....you can be a passionate Pitt man or woman without being a Pitt sports fan. And that's where I'm at now. To me, Pitt sports is a passing amusement or sometimes an annoyance. The last 6 years of incompetent hoops coaches does that to someone.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

Agree about the clock ticking. Whenever a new coach is hired to turn around a program that is "in the toilet" there is a certain limited window of time to make it happen. If it doesn't happen within that window it likely won't because the "new coach is going to turn it around" selling point in recruiting is lost and opposing recruiters can efectively argue "Why go to that losing program it will never be turned around."

If it were not for a Covid-scrambled past season and the new NCAA unlimited one-time transfer rule hitting, Capel's window of opportunity would already be fully closed. As it is, the muddled situation caused by those two factors has left him, IMO, with his window still slightly open. What little is left of his window will end about a year from now. He desperately needs a top notch 2022 recruit class and to get it if he needs spring signings he may also need to produce a better and wining season W-L record in 2021-2022.

Agree. Capel would have to produce a top 10 recruiting class at this point for 2022-2023 or he's going to be feeling the heat.

 

[WannyandWalt]

how many years is an appropriate expectation to go from bottom of the barrel to ncaat?

50 if that's how long it takes , they woukd keep this bum forever some of them. Good lord

 

[WannyandWalt]

No lost sleep here. I sleep fine. I'm a Pitt man through and through, but I've lost my passion and interest for Pitt sports until things change for the better in collegiate athletics in the 2 major sports. I don't see that happening. And you're right....what's on TV tonight and what's for dinner is vastly more important than Pitt basketball or Capel. Just remember....you can be a passionate Pitt man or woman without being a Pitt sports fan. And that's where I'm at now. To me, Pitt sports is a passing amusement or sometimes an annoyance. The last 6 years of incompetent hoops coaches does that to someone.

Me too , for 40 years had season tickets and my family to both sports, no more , don't miss it , love Pitt but my passion matches the egghead administration, very low. What's a shame my passion was so high once, Majors 2 first game at southern miss, I drove to see it , I was all in, now I watch some games on TV some I go hike, Duzz is a coach if you want to mire in mediocrity, same with Capel

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Me too , for 40 years had season tickets and my family to both sports, no more , don't miss it , love Pitt but my passion matches the egghead administration, very low. What's a shame my passion was so high once, Majors 2 first game at southern miss, I drove to see it , I was all in, now I watch some games on TV some I go hike, Duzz is a coach if you want to mire in mediocrity, same with Capel

Once Pitt disbanded the Golden Panthers they told everyone that was paying attention that they were no longer willing to do what it takes to be a major player in Fb and bb . That’s what makes what BH and JD dId that much more remarkable and probably unrepeatable . Had JD stayed at Pitt the bb program would be better than it’s been since he left , but the program was trending in the wrong direction and those spoiled by his earlier success would be screaming for firing him now .
I‘ve accepted the premise that all Pitt wants is mediocre teams that don’t embarrass the university that play within the guidelines of the ncaa . When they have a coach signed through 2026 at 3 million /yr unless he does some egregious act he’‘ll be given just about the full length of his contract to turn things around . They’re not willing to eat that kind of money and then pay another coach .

Accepting mediocrity sucks , but until Pitts administration decides to take their gloves off nothing will ever change with Fb or Bb . Every now and then they might get a yr or two of excellence, but it won’t be sustainable.