State of the program: What say you?
- Thread starter HailToPitt725
- Start date
This one is simple. You keep him because it will set the program back 3 or 4 years if you make a change.
Here is the way it goes... Pitt fires Duzz, goes in for an offensive guy. (Because that's the way half-assed programs usually work. If you have a defensive guy, the next guy up is an offensive guy to appease the miserable fanbase) They will lose a few recruits and a few players will use the change as a reason to transfer. Not all of the holdovers will buy in and some some stay a year before they eventually leave. The changes pretty much assure Pitt's range of wins will be somewhere between 4-7 the next few years, until the next coach gets his guys in. And if he continues to recruit in the 20-35 range, his ceiling is going to be about 8 wins too. Besides, Pitt isn't getting a proven or name coach. So if you want to pay a lot of money to get worse results for the next 3 or 4 years, then by all means, Pitt should pull the trigger.
Boosters would be better off to spend the money going rogue and buying players. What do you have to lose? A few schollys? A trip to Detroit, Charlotte, or NYC over the holidays? Totally worth it, imo.
I like Duzz because I love the physical style of play. His teams inflict some pain, even when they lose. They have a lot of fight and don't quit. They are competitive and you go in most Saturdays feeling like you have at least a chance to win. I'm good with that.
You were making a good case until the last paragraph. Nobody’s inflicting any pain on the offensive side of the ball and the O gets out-physicalled nearly every week. for the most part the last 4 seasons (with Narduzzis players on the field) Pitt has not been competitive against any team with a pulse. We often look foolish and get clowned by announcers and media. it took him 4 years and the Bates hire to put a D on the field that doesn’t get pushed around and during that same time the O has turned into a clown show. Pitt strikes fear into exactly nobody.
If another random coordinator was hired as HC your prophecy would likely be fulfilled. If the right up and coming HC were hired-a serious, smart, organized guy with a proven method-this thing could go up a notch real quick. Bates could be retained tk keep the D on the tracks.
I’ll leave you with this thought: you’re talking about what a big step backwards it would be if we hired an offensive coordinator type. Well just wait and see what happens next year when Dooz is breaking in a new QB and trying to replace several of his best players on D. That 4-5 win season you’re worried about is more likely the reality than the 6-7 sines you say you’re content with.
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Agree to a point, but the Georgia Tech game ended up being the difference between 5-6/4-6 and 6-5/5-5. And losses to really bad teams - or what is seen at the time as a really bad team (see NC State) - do bring out the worst reactions.
I'm indifferent to keeping Narduzzi or letting him go, but given how this season gets a passing grade, and 5 of his 6 seasons here would get passing grades, he's going to be kept. The only reason Narduzzi would be let go is if administration thinks a massive collapse is imminent.
He gets a passing grade for winning six games in a season we were favored to win eight games in?
Narduzzi has got to love the fact that he's at a school with a fanbase that gets the kind of results he's given and they say they'd give him a "passing grade". Especially after 6-5 in a season that he has been pointing to as the year we finally have a break through. The one, and only, reason to keep him is because they don't want to pay the buyout in a year where revenues have taken such a hit. There is no on-field justification for him getting any more time.
You bring up an interesting point that I want to ask about.
Let’s say we won the two one-point games, went 8-3, and still lost the same games to Clemson, Notre Dame, and Miami. Considering how non-competitive we were in two of them, would that even be OK still?
I’d like to think of eight wins as showing progress that we’re getting closer to competing with the conference’s top tier and not just the actual goal.
The answer is yes. Clemson and ND are far superior. Miami is better. No issues whatsoever in losing those 3. I know Miami got their asses kicked yesterday but that’s still not a bad loss. At least at 8-3 they’d have finally won all the games you’d expect them to win. And given the history maybe expect isn’t the right word for BC and NC St but I think everyone get’s the point. You look back and say yea finally we only lost the games most everyone would have expected us to lose.
Every thing you cite I true.
Why can most see it and some won’t.
I will be waiting impatiently to see what changes will be made, not only to the coaching staff but with the offensive play-calling and demands of any new coaches.
I remember Coach Tomlin say that he expected routine plays to be carried out routinely.
I remember the Pitt wide receivers coach saying he would not do anything differently when asked what would he do address the many many many dropped passes by the Pitt receiving corps.
I realize the one is a Professional Coach and the other coaches college.
One of those responses is appropriate, the other is not. I’ll ask you on the board to be the judge.
That would have been meeting expectations.
And it's Pitt, so meeting expectations is about as good as we ever get. When was the last time we beat everyone we were supposed to beat and then won one or two other games that we probably weren't supposed to?
Here's the thing. Even if (for whatever that is for) they met expectations, it still would not have hid the fact that the this is a highly undisciplined team who has too many warts to be considered good. I am not expecting Pitt to be Clemson or Bama, but is it too much to ask for a fundementally sound football team?
Well, I never said it was a resounding passing grade.
Pitt - and frankly most of the teams in the ACC fit this description - is a .500 program in this conference. Pitt went .500. Pass.
BTW, Pitt was favored in only 6 games.
Unfortunately only around 5 percent of Pitt fans think like you. And nobody on the BoT thinks this way. That’s why Pitt has wandered the desert in mediocrity for the past 40 years. You Pitt fans deserve what you get. I don’t want to hear complaining when y’all are complicit in enabling stable mediocrity. Real Nice to go through life as being just average and not exceptional.
Speaking only for myself, if we had beaten BC and NCSU—two decidedly lackluster teams-but had the same results in the Clemson and ND losses-I’d still be unhappy with Nard but would recognize full well that you don’t can a guy who just went 8-3.
Unfortunately we don’t have that quandary. we lost the “what ifs” battle for like the 30th season running and looked pretty damn bad much of the time in so doing. I see no merit-based justification for retaining Dooz at this point.
Not surprised that you would think that Whipple’s prehistoric means of getting the plays in is the biggest or only problem with the program. You don’t care what the plays are and that the players don’t/can’t execute them as long as they’re sent in by signals.
As for this recruiting class that has some of you all lathered up:
Aren’t you the guy who said we should hire a 58 year old MAC coach who went 3-3 this year and got fired for having a losing season at Florida?Not surprised that you would think that Whipple’s prehistoric means of getting the plays in is the biggest or only problem with the program. You don’t care what the plays are and that the players don’t/can’t execute them as long as they’re sent in by signals.
As for this recruiting class that has some of you all lathered up:
I’m the guy who said he’s a better head coach than Narduzzi. I’ll stand by that. Not hard to do so when you look at the respective career head coaching records. Its all right there in the data. Its not even close. No doubt in my mind that Pitt would have done better the past 6 seasons with McElwain as HC than it did with Nard.
I don’t have the interest, time or inclination to research and put together a list of names of coaches that Pitt could realistically get to replace Narduzzi. But you can bet Heather Lyke has put in that time and research, and has her own list.
If you want to characterize me in this “aren’t you the guy” context, you can think of me as “the guy” that doesn’t believe that Narduzzi has done a good job as Pitt head coach, and that Pitt can and should try to do better.
Not surprised that you would think that Whipple’s prehistoric means of getting the plays in is the biggest or only problem with the program. You don’t care what the plays are and that the players don’t/can’t execute them as long as they’re sent in by signals.
As for this recruiting class that has some of you all lathered up:
Yes, I can see why, with you substandard intellect, you may think that.
And, sure, You also, with said intellect, think our juggernaut of an offense should roll Clemson and hang 60 and our limitation is play calling and that gosh darn coaching. But, most of us football fans with a shred of knowledge about the game know there are many factors involved. I’ve said throughout the year Whipple should be fired. I don’t like his play calling or the arcane way he sends the plays.
He is known to groom QBs well though, and I’m willing to see how he does post Pickett. I think one more year isnt bad. However if he gets canned I’d be perfectly ok with that as well.
Fire Duzz and then hire someone really really bad is what Pitt history says will happen and we will become a 3-5 win program for a few seasons. I have seen too many Pitt coaching changes since the 1980s. Each time fans are looking to catch lightning in a bottle. It has never happened and never will. Narduzzi may not meet many fans idea of how good a Pitt coach should be; but things will not get better if he is fired. Instead they will get worse. You can bank on it!
Seven. Austin Peay, Syracuse, Louisville, NC State, BC, Florida State and Georgia Tech.
What you said may in fact happen, but that is an unbelievably bad reason for keeping a coach that isn’t meeting your expectations.
How would you know what people that have a shred of knowledge about football know? Did you ask one of them?
McElwain got fired at one of the premier jobs in the country and went 3-3 this year. He is no better than Narduzzi.
You act like some know it all, but yet you cannot offer 5 legitimate candidates. Here is the reality - big boosters pay 15 million dollar buyouts, so unless the bottom falls out or you want kick into the pot Narduzzi is here until at least 2021 comes to an end.
Not only that, but when was the last time Pitt only won 3 - 5 games for several seasons? The last time we won less than five games in a season was 1998. The last time we changes coaches the next three seasons brought 8, 8 and 5 wins. The time before that it was 6, 7 and 6. The time before that was 6 and, ah, that's all. The time before that was 5, 6 and 5, so that was kind of close (thank you Wanny). The time before that was 6, 2 and 5. Does that count? I'm not sure, because the quote was that "we will become a 3-5 win program for a few seasons", and we didn't BECOME a 3-5 win program then. We WERE a 3-5 win program then.
Really, the last time we were something more and then became a 3-5 win program was when we fired Gottfried and hired Hackett. That was 30 years ago. The only other time we took a real step backwards as a program was when we fired Harris and hired Wannstedt.
Narduzzi has been slightly above average compared to all coaches Post Sherrill. I believe retaining him gives us the best chance to get from 6-7 wins a season to 8-9 wins a season. Clemson is the only team in the conference that is light years ahead of us. There is no reason we can't be the 2nd best team in the ACC within 5 years.
He needs to improve as a head coach quickly to make that happen. Team was so undisciplined this year. How many offside penalties did we have against NC State? It appears we often are in the top 1/2 of the country in penalties.
His recruiting is improving and should continue to get better. This season was a big disappointment, but we should not rip everything down and start back over. That has not worked the last 8 times we tried it.
Hail to Pitt!
Dave
He needs to improve as a head coach quickly to make that happen. Team was so undisciplined this year. How many offside penalties did we have against NC State? It appears we often are in the top 1/2 of the country in penalties.
His recruiting is improving and should continue to get better. This season was a big disappointment, but we should not rip everything down and start back over. That has not worked the last 8 times we tried it.
Hail to Pitt!
Dave
I would certainly defer to you on matters of football acumen. You have proven yourself to be an astute football mind time after time over the years. You really know your stuff. Must be all the time you spent in your life playing the game, watching film, getting coached, etc. It really shows through in your offerings here. You must have spent some time refereeing as well, your commentary on officiating in Pitt games is so technical and informative. Without your enlightened commentary the underground anti-Pitt officiating cabal that has cost us so many wins over the years might have remained a secret for eternity.
whatever it is you’re accusing me of in that first sentence of your second paragraph must be written in code. Please translate.
Funny how polls like this show the squeaky wheels post the most on here. It’s so overwhelmingly pro Narduzzi. Yet, the dissenters will still call Pitt fans dumb and clueless for being positive.
Honestly it’s embarrassing for them. Are they going to sue for a recount?
Honestly it’s embarrassing for them. Are they going to sue for a recount?
Refuse to vote on something like this. The fact you're asking tells you everything you need to know. However the powers that be disagree you need a new poll.
Yeah, good call. I mean at this point only 88.7% of the people who voted thinks that changes are needed. I don't know how anyone can interpret that as anything other than a ringing endorsement of the current head coach.
Ok. I honestly thought Florida St was a slight favorite in that one
Just now was able to look up an old line
McElwain is no better than Narduzzi based on the fact that he got fired midseaon at Florida after winning 19 games the prior 2 years, and because he went 3-3 this year at CMU with no healthy quarterbacks after winning the MAC and being named COY last year? He has been COY of the Mountain Wesr, the SEC and the MAC. As OC at Alabama he has 2 national championship rings. He has built 2 near-dead programs into conference champions in short order.
Narduzzi is his equal? Is this really the hill you choose to die on?
Exactly the people I’m talking about. I say pro Narduzzi and this joker answers like this. It’s almost comical.
What's comical is that you think that a poll that shows nearly 90% of the people saying that we need to make changes is a ringing endorsement of the head coach. It's like as if you don't understand that if the assistant coaches are failing that that means that the head coach is failing too.
The buck stops at the top, except with Pat Narduzzi, apparently.
He is pro Narduzzi. He said it is a ringing endorsement for him. When 90% of this board is behind the coach that’s something.
But your point is valid, you only hear from the Debbie downers
If you have a losing record in year 3 at Florida and get fired, then you aren’t a good HC. He was 3-3 this year and got blasted by Ball State. He looked like a deer in headlights on the sidelines. He is the equivalent to Ron Zook and Will Muschamp. Pitt better hire someone better than him if they want to make a change and get somewhere.
LMAO 😂 He built 2 near dead programs. Are you related to him or his agent? There might be 5 people on the planet that believe that and you are one of them.
You keep trying.
You’re comical. Trying to spin a poll in which 88% want to keep our coach, and that’s your MO.
I want Whipple fired. So I voted that way. I love the rest of the coaches.
You’re a sad little thing
McElwain lost 4 games every year he was at Florida. His last season, he was 3-4 and lost to UGA 42-7 in his last game as Florida HC. His defense and recruiting were mediocre. His offense was 111th, 116th, and 112th in the country (7 games into his 3rd season when he was axed) His teams scored 30+ points 7 time during his entire Florida tenure.
Lol. Jeremy Pruitt has 3 NC rings. How's that working out for him as a HC.
This is McElwain's 10 win season at Florida. FLORIDA!
| eptember 5 | 7:30 p.m. | New Mexico State* | SECN | W 61–13 | 90,227 | ||
| September 12 | 7:00 p.m. | East Carolina* |
| ESPN2 | W 31–24 | 88,034 | |
| September 19 | 7:30 p.m. | at Kentucky | SECN | W 14–9 | 63,040 | ||
| September 26 | 3:30 p.m. | Tennessee |
| CBS | W 28–27 | 90,527 | |
| October 3 | 7:00 p.m. | No. 3 Ole Miss | No. 25 |
| ESPN | W 38–10 | 90,585 |
| October 10 | 7:30 p.m. | at Missouri | No. 11 | SECN | W 21–3 | 70,767 | |
| October 17 | 7:00 p.m. | at No. 6 LSU | No. 8 | ESPN | L 28–35 | 102,321 | |
| October 31 | 3:30 p.m. | vs. Georgia | No. 11 | CBS | W 27–3 | 84,628 | |
| November 7 | 12:00 p.m. | Vanderbilt | No. 11 |
| ESPN | W 9–7 | 90,061 |
| November 14 | 12:00 p.m. | at South Carolina | No. 11 | ESPN | W 24–14 | 78,536 | |
| November 21 | 12:00 p.m. | Florida Atlantic* | No. 8 |
| SECN | W 20–14 OT | 90,107 |
| November 28 | 7:30 p.m. | No. 14 Florida State* | No. 10 |
| ESPN | L 2–27 | 90,916 |
| December 5 | 4:00 p.m. | vs. No. 2 Alabama | No. 18 | CBS | L 15–29 | 75,320 | |
| January 1, 2016 | 1:00 p.m. | vs. No. 17 Michigan* | No. 19 | ABC | L 7–41 | 63,113 |
