It feels great to know the kids are going to the line and it will be drained. Its a new weapon for the team.
The end of this game proves how much FTs matter
- Thread starter UPitt '89
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At some point, opposing coaches will back down a bit, take chances on our shots from the floor. Must be discouraging to lengthen the game and still losr.
I want you to think that point thru.
If we defend and hold notre dame in the 60s..
It's a laugher.
You understand part of scoring more than your opponent is stopping your opponent from scoring, right ???
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The original debate was team FT %, and that somehow Jamie doesn't coach up Fts, whatever the heck that means. People were bitching about late game FTs and pointing to the team FT %, when the crappiest guys at FT shooting were on the bench at the time. I still can't believe that people still don't get that. It's mind numbing really. Don't know if people are being obtuse or if they are just plain dumb.
Maybe. But most of the past Pitt teams wouldn't have given up 82 points.
Perhaps one could say that FT's matter for this team more than any other as they need to score as many points as they can because they are going to struggle to stop the opponent.
There were some people sitting behind someone I know at last game who were saying it was about time that Dixon started practicing free throws.
I really do think there are some people who don't think he worked on them in the past and he finally decided to this year.
I don't agree with all the points in this thread, but what you have said here is certainly something I'd agree with.
They will be shocked that Dixon is no longer practicing them when Jeter, Artis and Young leave.
At the last game there was a moron sitting behind us who was bitching after Maia had missed a couple that we never make any foul shots. Of course at the time we were leading the country in free throw shooting percentage.
I think you said it best.
Foul shots do matter. For one point.
FG's do matter. For two points.
3 pointers matter. For three points.
I just think it's harder for many fans to watch teams miss three throws because their player is standing their for all that time and no one is guarding them and because they are "free" throws, that it should be an easy shot.
Find me one study that shows that Free throw % correlates more highly to winning than FG% or rebounding, or rate of drawing fouls. You can't. FT% makes fans comfortable, but has very little to do with winning. Had Pitt shot a higher percentage from the 3 or the 2, those final free throws don't matter. Had they got another rebound they don't matter. Had one of the block/charge fouls been called the other way they don't matter.
Use data, not conjecture, please.
Use data, not conjecture, please.
While I completely agree with you, I'm glad it's part of what makes our offense better.
I KNOW in my head that a basket in the first half is just as important as two free throws in the last minute.
But, DURING that last minute, making those FT's sure seens more important.
Just human nature, I guess. Most recent seems more important than less recent.
Only thing I would add to the discussion are: first, it's still pretty incredible to me that college BB players who have the overall athletic skill to play Div 1 BB can"t master the mechanics of foul shooting to at least shoot 65-70%, particularly if they are guards and second, no one should underestimate the pressure of shooting a foul shot before 15,000 people during the last minute of a BB game when the game outcome rests on making the shot.
I would point out we DID MISS a couple of free throws down the stretch .
James two were very clutch.
James two were very clutch.
Big area of improvement FTR 2014 35% - 237th 2015 44% - 40th Free Throws per Offensive play 2014 26% - 192nd 2015 31.6% - 25th
And last and best FT made per 100 possessions 2014 20.4 - 182nd 2015 29.2 - leads the nation!
So it isn't just that Pitt is shooting them at a high clip, they also have significantly increased the rate at which they are getting to the line whether measured against FG or possessions.
And last and best FT made per 100 possessions 2014 20.4 - 182nd 2015 29.2 - leads the nation!
So it isn't just that Pitt is shooting them at a high clip, they also have significantly increased the rate at which they are getting to the line whether measured against FG or possessions.
I never said FTs don't matter or as some morons write that people said they don't count. So there is strike one. Want to try again?
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Quite possible the increase in the rate we are GETTING TO the FT line is more related to the rules interpretation than our play. In fact, with our emphasis on jump shots, this year we should be getting to the line LESS. It may or may not be just serendipity that our best FTshooting team ever happens the same season as the NCAA finally seems serious about calling the game tighter. It would be amazing if Jamie had been able to coordinate both those two factors. But, while I think Jamie s a very good coach, even the most avid JIG coudn't claim THAT with a straight face.
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We could've made several Final Fours if we would have had mediocre free throw shooting. We were a disgrace in that aspect for a decade. We now have THE BEST free throw shooting team in America. This team is built for a deep tourney run. Pitt will be a really bad matchup for almost any team in March.
Or not...
We're a jump shooting team primarily... And sometimes shots don't fall.
First, we have been mediocre. Second, how do you figure we would have multiple FFs? If our average was 67% and we increased to 70% (I have no idea how we'd do that, do you?), that's about 18-24 FTs per season, in about 35 games. It is totally about the guys shooting them. Basically, the only way Dixon improves our historical FT% rate is to not recruit Nasir, Cam, Blair, McGhee, etc. This year's team is in a unique situation where Young, Artis and Jeter can hit FTs (as all as our guards). As soon as those guys leave, our % will go down. Levance in our EE year would be our worst FT shooter excluding Maia, Luther and ANO.
Absolutely. But good free throw shooting cures some problems you may be having in any particular game. Also this team is just so deep that it will be tough for other teams to keep up with us. When they are tired and lagging, Pitt can put in fresh legs and still have 5 guys on the court who are legit D1 players at all times.
Think of making one more free throw against Butler. No doubt we make it to the Final Four if we win that game. Marquette - 3 point loss, free throws would have helped. I'm just saying, you will never win in March if you're a bad free throw shooting team, even if you have 5 superstars that just can't shoot free throws.
I just personally think if our free throw shooting was anywhere near respectable, there were numerous tourney games we would have pulled out instead of losing close games.
That's pretty arbitrary. If we hit one more shot, one less turnover, get one more stop, if Nasir doesn't foul, if we don't get a shot clock violation. There were like 50 things that could have changed the outcome. Even if we were a better FT shooting team in general, that doesn't mean Brown hits the one at the end. And if we can magically add FTs to us, what if Butler hits 2 more? It totally depends on so many factors, saying if we could only improves FTs, which is the hardest thing to improve if you have bad FT shooters, it just doesn't make sense. The only way to improve FT shooting on a team, is to have better FT shooters.
What do you think Dixon is doing differently this year than past years?
You are absolutely correct. But free throws are such a basic thing that you should not lose close games because you just can't hit free throws all night long. It's different than just having a bad shooting night. They literally were a bad free throw shooting team every single year and that kills you in March.
Take for example even yesterday's game. We needed some free throws late to win, and had a good day from the charity stripe in general. The '03 Brandin Knight led team probably would have blown that game. Free throws should be your biggest security blanket, it was just such a struggle before. I really believe the improved FT shooting and our depth will make this the most successful Pitt team to date.
We will see. It depends if you think FT% is more important than defense or not. We will find out against Louisville. We shoot 10% better as a team from the stripe.
Not me either. As I said to someone else yesterday, when you have to pretend that someone said something that they didn't say to make your argument it shows how good your argument actually is.
FT shooting in basketball is similar to placekicking in football. It doesn't matter... until it does.
If Chris Boswell misses one of the chip shots yesterday, the Steelers lose. It is something that is taken for granted, something almost entirely in control of the offensive team that the defense can do nothing (or very little) about.
It is the one area of the game where the offensive team is in complete control of the outcome, regardless of the opponent.
FT's don't matter, until they do.... usually late in the game. FG's in football don't matter, until they do... often late in the game.
Many coaches in both sports had their teams come up short in close games because of a failure to execute FTs and placekicking. Something that is an afterthought to many when putting together their rosters.... but has cost many coaches their jobs.
If Chris Boswell misses one of the chip shots yesterday, the Steelers lose. It is something that is taken for granted, something almost entirely in control of the offensive team that the defense can do nothing (or very little) about.
It is the one area of the game where the offensive team is in complete control of the outcome, regardless of the opponent.
FT's don't matter, until they do.... usually late in the game. FG's in football don't matter, until they do... often late in the game.
Many coaches in both sports had their teams come up short in close games because of a failure to execute FTs and placekicking. Something that is an afterthought to many when putting together their rosters.... but has cost many coaches their jobs.
In the game that Scottie Reynolds' Villanova team beat Pitt 78-76 in the Elite Eight..... Villanova was 22-for-23 at the FT line.
Imagine the outcome of the game if they were an average 16-for-23 from the line?
Pitt was better in EVERY aspect of that game than Villanova... except for the FT line. Scottie Reynolds doesn't even have the opportunity for an end-to-end play to win the game if he and his teammates were average at the FT line instead of excellent.
And it is the one area of the game that Pitt absolutely had no ability to do anything about. It was the one skillset for Villanova that was completely independent of anything Pitt could do to counter it.
22 of 78 points for Villanova were at the stripe. Roughly 30% of their scoring. People who think that FT shooting is minor or secondary to a team's success just crazy.
A bad FT shooting team has to be SO much better at everything else compared to their opponent in order to overcome it. Especially with games being called tightly and more fouls being called.
Imagine the outcome of the game if they were an average 16-for-23 from the line?
Pitt was better in EVERY aspect of that game than Villanova... except for the FT line. Scottie Reynolds doesn't even have the opportunity for an end-to-end play to win the game if he and his teammates were average at the FT line instead of excellent.
And it is the one area of the game that Pitt absolutely had no ability to do anything about. It was the one skillset for Villanova that was completely independent of anything Pitt could do to counter it.
22 of 78 points for Villanova were at the stripe. Roughly 30% of their scoring. People who think that FT shooting is minor or secondary to a team's success just crazy.
A bad FT shooting team has to be SO much better at everything else compared to their opponent in order to overcome it. Especially with games being called tightly and more fouls being called.
Very well said. It is an after thought because at this level these things should be almost second nature.
so if this happens to many coaches in many sports, then I'm right. It's arbitrary and silly. Saying that scoring more points than fewer points is hardly an earth shattering revelation.
I'll ask you too. What is Jamie doing differently this year than in our EE year?
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