The Florida myth

[HailtoPitt]

No, you still ignored the question. If our talent is clearly worse than those 5 and the staffs are, at best, even, how do we improve our standing in the ACC? Narduzzi is also 0-3 against UNC, 0-2 against Justin Fuente and struggled to barely beat YSU in overtime.

Either our coaching has to be much, much better than those other schools or our talent has to be better.

You still don't get it. Pitt is not a great program currently. We aren't just going to hire a coach who will recruit like gangbusters and then win big on the field. The solution is not that simple. Maybe for Alabama. Maybe for Miami. But not for Pitt. We have had decades of incompetent decision making. You just don't hire a coach and expect instant results. If you want Pitt to get to the point where they are winning more and playing in the ACC Championship game, then learn to have patience and be ok with incremental changes. Demanding that Narduzzi gets the boot for doing essentially the same job so far as everyone else is only going to result in a new coach who generates similar results.

 

[Jpripper88]

You still don't get it. Pitt is not a great program currently. We aren't just going to hire a coach who will recruit like gangbusters and then win big on the field. The solution is not that simple. Maybe for Alabama. Maybe for Miami. But not for Pitt. We have had decades of incompetent decision making. You just don't hire a coach and expect instant results. If you want Pitt to get to the point where they are winning more and playing in the ACC Championship game, then learn to have patience and be ok with incremental changes. Demanding that Narduzzi gets the boot for doing essentially the same job so far as everyone else is only going to result in a new coach who generates similar results.

No, you still don't get it. You have to either recruit better or have a huge advantage in coaching to be better than mediocre. PSU hired someone who is a fantastic recruiter. They are reaping the benefits. Right now we seem to be exactly where we should be and likely to repeat the same results. Those results are not good enough and either the recruiting has to greatly improve or the coaching staff has to greatly improve or we are stuck with results that are not acceptable.

We went 5-7 last year and are 21-17 overall with a winning season for 2018 in question and recruiting literally being the worst in P5 right now. Exactly 0 of my posts have been "demanding that Narduzzi gets the boot". Zero. The fact you think any of them are proves you haven't been reading or comprehending any of the discussion.

 

[pittmeister]

You still don't get it. Pitt is not a great program currently. We aren't just going to hire a coach who will recruit like gangbusters and then win big on the field. The solution is not that simple. Maybe for Alabama. Maybe for Miami. But not for Pitt. We have had decades of incompetent decision making. You just don't hire a coach and expect instant results. If you want Pitt to get to the point where they are winning more and playing in the ACC Championship game, then learn to have patience and be ok with incremental changes. Demanding that Narduzzi gets the boot for doing essentially the same job so far as everyone else is only going to result in a new coach who generates similar results.

BRAVO! You are a man of great wisdom.

 

[pittmeister]

See WVU with Pat White. Louisville with Lamar Jackson. Michigan with the morons they have had playing the position. Texas was the crap they have had playing the position. Florida with the garbage they have had playing the position. Clemson with the talent they have had playing at QB.

That's it. A great QB is the great equalizer. You can have talent out the wazzoo, and if you have mediocre QB play, it is hard to win.

"That's it. A great QB is the great equalizer. You can have talent out the wazzoo, and if you have mediocre QB play, it is hard to win."

SPOT ON!

 

[HailtoPitt]

No, you still don't get it. You have to either recruit better or have a huge advantage in coaching to be better than mediocre. PSU hired someone who is a fantastic recruiter. They are reaping the benefits. Right now we seem to be exactly where we should be and likely to repeat the same results. Those results are not good enough and either the recruiting has to greatly improve or the coaching staff has to greatly improve or we are stuck with results that are not acceptable.

We went 5-7 last year and are 21-17 overall with a winning season for 2018 in question and recruiting literally being the worst in P5 right now. Exactly 0 of my posts have been "demanding that Narduzzi gets the boot". Zero. The fact you think any of them are proves you haven't been reading or comprehending any of the discussion.

The fact that you compared Pitt to Penn State shows a complete misunderstanding of the situation. Franklin is recruiting well at Penn State because it's Penn State. Their program is light years ahead, even with the scandal. Recruits know that committing to PSU means a chance to compete for the national title. If Narduzzi wants to improve recruiting, he will need to prove to recruits that Pitt has a chance for big things. That means doing more with less. Other good coaches have done this and I see no reason why Narduzzi can't if he is a good coach and has the continued commitment from Pitt. But, he needs to be given more time to build the program. It isn't like his teams are tanking. They are winning some big games, which shows that he has the potential to be successful.

 

[Jpripper88]

The fact that you compared Pitt to Penn State shows a complete misunderstanding of the situation. Franklin is recruiting well at Penn State because it's Penn State. Their program is light years ahead, even with the scandal. Recruits know that committing to PSU means a chance to compete for the national title. If Narduzzi wants to improve recruiting, he will need to prove to recruits that Pitt has a chance for big things. That means doing more with less. Other good coaches have done this and I see no reason why Narduzzi can't if he is a good coach and has the continued commitment from Pitt. But, he needs to be given more time to build the program. It isn't like his teams are tanking. They are winning some big games, which shows that he has the potential to be successful.

No, no, no, no, no. James Franklin is recruiting great at Penn State because James Franklin and his staff are great recruiters. Penn State wasn't recruiting at this level before him. Nick Saban and his staff recruit great at Alabama because he and his staff are great recruiters. Alabama wasn't recruiting at that level before him. Jeff Capel is recruiting great at Pitt because Jeff Capel is a great recruiter. Pitt basketball wasn't recruiting at this level before him.

It doesn't work the way you propose. Recruits don't give a flying f*ck about a coach winning 8 games. You either have a staff that can recruit or your don't. Other coaches do not out perform their recruiting against their competition. The best case is winning all the games where you are even or better than your opponent and winning some of the games against better competition at maybe a 1/3 rate. For Pitt, that would equate to a 4 or 5 loss season. For Wisconsin (because they don't play anyone in division or OOC) it got them 12 wins last year.

 

[HailtoPitt]

No, no, no, no, no. James Franklin is recruiting great at Penn State because James Franklin and his staff are great recruiters. Penn State wasn't recruiting at this level before him. Nick Saban and his staff recruit great at Alabama because he and his staff are great recruiters. Alabama wasn't recruiting at that level before him. Jeff Capel is recruiting great at Pitt because Jeff Capel is a great recruiter. Pitt basketball wasn't recruiting at this level before him.

It doesn't work the way you propose. Recruits don't give a flying f*ck about a coach winning 8 games. You either have a staff that can recruit or your don't. Other coaches do not out perform their recruiting against their competition. The best case is winning all the games where you are even or better than your opponent and winning some of the games against better competition at maybe a 1/3 rate. For Pitt, that would equate to a 4 or 5 loss season. For Wisconsin (because they don't play anyone in division or OOC) it got them 12 wins last year.

And again, you can't compare recruiting at Pitt to recruiting at Penn State or Alabama. It's apples to oranges. If Franklin were Pitt's coach, guess what, he would have the similar results recruiting as did Narduzzi, Chryst and Graham. Pitt could double it's recruiting efforts and wouldn't see much improvement. The solution is not as simple as out recruiting those other program... because that's currently not possible for Pitt.

 

[Jpripper88]

And again, you can't compare recruiting at Pitt to recruiting at Penn State or Alabama. It's apples to oranges. If Franklin were Pitt's coach, guess what, he would have the similar results recruiting as did Narduzzi, Chryst and Graham. Pitt could double it's recruiting efforts and wouldn't see much improvement. The solution is not as simple as out recruiting those other program... because that's currently not possible for Pitt.

Yes, you can. The difference is the HC, not the program. There is no way Franklin would have the same results as HCPN because Franklin is a much, much, much better recruiter and he has assembled his staff in a much different way. Franklin made vast improvements to VANDERBILT'S recruiting and there is no argument you can make for Vandy as some mythical self recruiting destination. If Nick Saban came to Pitt instead of Alabama, Pitt would be one of the best recruiting programs in the country and it would have happened instantly. Recruiters recruit and they do it wherever they go. It doesn't happen after they improve a program from 6 wins to 8.

 

[cashisking884]

Illinois currently has 2 ESPN 300 commits right now. In the first week of June. Can anybody tell me what they've won to have their 2019 class start off so hot? They are building off their successful 2-10 break out season from last year apparently.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Yes, you can. The difference is the HC, not the program. There is no way Franklin would have the same results as HCPN because Franklin is a much, much, much better recruiter and he has assembled his staff in a much different way. Franklin made vast improvements to VANDERBILT'S recruiting and there is no argument you can make for Vandy as some mythical self recruiting destination. If Nick Saban came to Pitt instead of Alabama, Pitt would be one of the best recruiting programs in the country and it would have happened instantly. Recruiters recruit and they do it wherever they go. It doesn't happen after they improve a program from 6 wins to 8.

Time to come back to reality. Nick Saban or any coach of his caliber is not coming to Pitt. We currently have one of the best coaches we could have. He recruits almost exactly the same as PC, TG and DW. The issue isn't the coach's recruiting. The issue is that not enough high level recruits have Pitt at the top of their list, and the reason has little to do with Narduzzi's recruiting skill.

 

[Mikefln]

You're welcome to blame whatever you want on Pitt's failings but recruiting is easily the difference maker.

While according to you and others it was the OOC schedule for Pitt's failings.

 

[Jpripper88]

Time to come back to reality. Nick Saban or any coach of his caliber is not coming to Pitt. We currently have one of the best coaches we could have. He recruits almost exactly the same as PC, TG and DW. The issue isn't the coach's recruiting. The issue is that not enough high level recruits have Pitt at the top of their list, and the reason has little to do with Narduzzi's recruiting skill.

Man, you sure do not get it.

 

[Mikefln]

Those results are not good enough

Are those results not good enough to us fans. No it is not. Are those results good enough for the absolute abomination that the football program dealt with for the last 10 years? It is actually good results. Pitt self sanctioned itself countless times. It just now appears that the administration is going to allow sports/football to succeed, but it is going to take time.

 

[pittmeister]

Are those results not good enough to us fans. No it is not. Are those results good enough for the absolute abomination that the football program dealt with for the last 10 years? It is actually good results. Pitt self sanctioned itself countless times. It just now appears that the administration is going to allow sports/football to succeed, but it is going to take time.

Another good post on this thread.

Pitt has done this to themselves and it's going to take time to get out of the wilderness. I believe we are moving in the right direction for the first time in quiet awhile...

 

[Jpripper88]

Are those results not good enough to us fans. No it is not. Are those results good enough for the absolute abomination that the football program dealt with for the last 10 years? It is actually good results. Pitt self sanctioned itself countless times. It just now appears that the administration is going to allow sports/football to succeed, but it is going to take time.

No, they are still not good results. Perhaps, though, the administration will accept them, if they continue. In order to improve, the recruiting has to improve drastically or the coaching has to be far and away better than our competition.

 

[cashisking884]

I love the "self-sanctioning" argument. How many teams could you make that argument about that we have had to compete against during that time? Between the Big East and ACC, Duke is probably the only team I can think of that didn't self-sanction. Actually made smart football decisions intended to improve the program. Maybe GT.
I think one point of disagreement is that the "we've made horrible decisions that have hurt the football program, and its' going to take time to grow out of it" side kind of assumes that the landscape will remain the same. The "slowly but surely" method isn't going to have other programs crawl out of their funks, and crawl out at more of a rapid pace.
Every team in the Coastal last year but us made a bowl game. We now have the 6, 22, and 23 ranked recruiting classes in the Coastal. Are people that are calling for patience and a slow climb, understanding that the incline is actually getting steeper while we are climbing?

 

[pittdan77]

While according to you and others it was the OOC schedule for Pitt's failings.

You decided to weigh in on football? I thought you were the country music expert.

 

[pittdan77]

Are people that are calling for patience and a slow climb, understanding that the incline is actually getting steeper while we are climbing?

No.

 

[pittmeister]

I love the "self-sanctioning" argument. How many teams could you make that argument about that we have had to compete against during that time? Between the Big East and ACC, Duke is probably the only team I can think of that didn't self-sanction. Actually made smart football decisions intended to improve the program. Maybe GT.
I think one point of disagreement is that the "we've made horrible decisions that have hurt the football program, and its' going to take time to grow out of it" side kind of assumes that the landscape will remain the same. The "slowly but surely" method isn't going to have other programs crawl out of their funks, and crawl out at more of a rapid pace.
Every team in the Coastal last year but us made a bowl game. We now have the 6, 22, and 23 ranked recruiting classes in the Coastal. Are people that are calling for patience and a slow climb, understanding that the incline is actually getting steeper while we are climbing?

"Are people that are calling for patience and a slow climb,understanding that the incline is actually getting steeper while we are climbing?"

Huh? What the hell does that mean? You can say that about any facet of life.

I'm sick of naysayers who do nothing but find error and fault with everything the new administration is trying to do,

Any person who presents reasonable facts as to why things have unfolded the way they have, is immediately countered with gibberish, negatively and unrealistic expectations.

If your expectations is to compete for a national championship year in and year out, you're in for a big disappointment.

If you believe that Pitt should be battling Michigan, Ohio State, Notre Dame and Penn State for recruits year in and year out, you're in for a big disappointment. Our recruiting competitors are MSU, WVU, Syracuse, BC, VT, NCST, Minnesota, Indiana, Duke, GT AND Rutgers. That is realistic.

If you think that beating 2 top ten teams in one season and beating another team that ended up being ranked #13 the following season is piss poor then you will be disappointed...

If you think that finishing 5-7 in spite of losing; Peterman, Connor, Orndoff, Bisnowaty, Soto, Taleni, Jarrett, Galambos, Wirginis, Capara, Lewis, Price, Bradley, Grigsby not to mention Whitehead and Bookser for part of the season, is bad coaxing, then you are unrealistic....

Get a grip or root for someone else...

 

[HailtoPitt]

"Are people that are calling for patience and a slow climb,understanding that the incline is actually getting steeper while we are climbing?"

Huh? What the hell does that mean? You can say that about any facet of life.

I'm sick of naysayers who do nothing but find error and fault with everything the new administration is trying to do,

Any person who presents reasonable facts as to why things have unfolded the way they have, is immediately countered with gibberish, negatively and unrealistic expectations.

If your expectations is to compete for a national championship year in and year out, you're in for a big disappointment.

If you believe that Pitt should be battling Michigan, Ohio State, Notre Dame and Penn State for recruits year in and year out, you're in for a big disappointment. Our recruiting competitors are MSU, WVU, Syracuse, BC, VT, NCST, Minnesota, Indiana, Duke, GT AND Rutgers. That is realistic.

If you think that beating 2 top ten teams in one season and beating another team that ended up being ranked #13 the following season is piss poor then you will be disappointed...

If you think that finishing 5-7 in spite of losing; Peterman, Connor, Orndoff, Bisnowaty, Soto, Taleni, Jarrett, Galambos, Wirginis, Capara, Lewis, Price, Bradley, Grigsby not to mention Whitehead and Bookser for part of the season, is bad coaxing, then you are unrealistic....

Get a grip or root for someone else...

Nonsense. We need a coach who will recruit all 4 and 5 stars players and have Pitt in the playoffs in 2 years. Else he should be fired too.

 

[cashisking884]

"Are people that are calling for patience and a slow climb,understanding that the incline is actually getting steeper while we are climbing?"

Huh? What the hell does that mean? You can say that about any facet of life.

No you can't. Look at the old Big East. When Miami and VT left, the climb to be Big East champion didn't get steeper. It got easier.
The ACC Coastal pre-this current hiring phase, was a far easier division. The climb to be Coastal Champion meant going through Al Golden, Mike London, a past his prime Frank Beamer, and UNC under the cloud of sanctions. This was sub-par coaching and, outside of UVA, all recruiting below their ceiling.

 

[jason21psu]

No, you still don't get it. You have to either recruit better or have a huge advantage in coaching to be better than mediocre. PSU hired someone who is a fantastic recruiter. They are reaping the benefits. Right now we seem to be exactly where we should be and likely to repeat the same results. Those results are not good enough and either the recruiting has to greatly improve or the coaching staff has to greatly improve or we are stuck with results that are not acceptable.

We went 5-7 last year and are 21-17 overall with a winning season for 2018 in question and recruiting literally being the worst in P5 right now. Exactly 0 of my posts have been "demanding that Narduzzi gets the boot". Zero. The fact you think any of them are proves you haven't been reading or comprehending any of the discussion.

The fact that you compared Pitt to Penn State shows a complete misunderstanding of the situation. Franklin is recruiting well at Penn State because it's Penn State. Their program is light years ahead, even with the scandal. Recruits know that committing to PSU means a chance to compete for the national title. If Narduzzi wants to improve recruiting, he will need to prove to recruits that Pitt has a chance for big things. That means doing more with less. Other good coaches have done this and I see no reason why Narduzzi can't if he is a good coach and has the continued commitment from Pitt. But, he needs to be given more time to build the program. It isn't like his teams are tanking. They are winning some big games, which shows that he has the potential to be successful.

The answer lies somewhere in the middle, compare Franklin recruiting at Vandy v Penn State.
Vandy 2011-2013
49, 46, 26

PSU 2014-2018
24, 14, 20, 15, 5

For comparison:
Pitt 2011 - 2018
Graham - 62, Chryst - 43, 32, 44, Duzz - 46, 30, 37, 46

Yes, Franklin is a good recruiter but he also needed a Penn State type school to reach the top 15 classes, then it took winning to get to the top 5. I do believe he would have recruited better than Chryst or Duzz at Pitt but I don't think he's pull top ten classes there unless he was also winning/competing for conference championships.

 

[cashisking884]

The answer lies somewhere in the middle, compare Franklin recruiting at Vandy v Penn State.
Vandy 2011-2013
49, 46, 26

PSU 2014-2018
24, 14, 20, 15, 5

For comparison:
Pitt 2011 - 2018
Graham - 62, Chryst - 43, 32, 44, Duzz - 46, 30, 37, 46

Yes, Franklin is a good recruiter but he also needed a Penn State type school to reach the top 15 classes, then it took winning to get to the top 5. I do believe he would have recruited better than Chryst or Duzz at Pitt but I don't think he's pull top ten classes there unless he was also winning/competing for conference championships.

Sure, Franklin couldn't recruit at an elite level at Vandy. Nobody can. I don't care how good of a recruiter Nick Saban is. Make him head coach of the Anchorage-Alaska Polar Bears and his team isn't going to have any talent.
The question would be though: would that Polar Bear squad recruit as well as it possibly can under Saban? Under Franklin? Under Narduzzi?
Every school has some type of recruiting floor. And every school has some type of recruiting ceiling. Those things must be controlled for when judging how good of a recruiter a coach is.

 

[pittmeister]

No you can't. Look at the old Big East. When Miami and VT left, the climb to be Big East champion didn't get steeper. It got easier.
The ACC Coastal pre-this current hiring phase, was a far easier division. The climb to be Coastal Champion meant going through Al Golden, Mike London, a past his prime Frank Beamer, and UNC under the cloud of sanctions. This was sub-par coaching and, outside of UVA, all recruiting below their ceiling.

What does any of this have to do with the present administration and coach?

Nothing...

What is past is past and has nothing to do with the future... The faces have changed, and so has the direction.

If you continue to look at the past, you will always be miserable.

 

[cashisking884]

What does any of this have to do with the present administration and coach?

Nothing...

What is past is past and has nothing to do with the future... The faces have changed, and so has the direction.

If you continue to look at the past, you will always be miserable.

What? The whole point of my post is looking at the future.
The initial post I made that you responded to was about me criticizing those that continue to look at the past. "We self-sanctioned," "it's been a cluster," blah blah blah.
The rest of the ACC doesn't care about that. They have got their act together in a serious way. My entire point was how difficult the climb is going to be going forward, if there is this slow and steady improvement.
This isn't the ACC that David Cutcliffe slowly rose up Duke in.

 

[Jpripper88]

The answer lies somewhere in the middle, compare Franklin recruiting at Vandy v Penn State.
Vandy 2011-2013
49, 46, 26

PSU 2014-2018
24, 14, 20, 15, 5

For comparison:
Pitt 2011 - 2018
Graham - 62, Chryst - 43, 32, 44, Duzz - 46, 30, 37, 46

Yes, Franklin is a good recruiter but he also needed a Penn State type school to reach the top 15 classes, then it took winning to get to the top 5. I do believe he would have recruited better than Chryst or Duzz at Pitt but I don't think he's pull top ten classes there unless he was also winning/competing for conference championships.

No, compare Vandy recruiting before Franklin to Vandy recruiting with Franklin and PSU recruiting before Franklin and PSU recruiting with Franklin. That is what tells the story and the difference is clear.

 

[cashisking884]

No, compare Vandy recruiting before Franklin to Vandy recruiting with Franklin and PSU recruiting before Franklin and PSU recruiting with Franklin. That is what tells the story and the difference is clear.

You'd also want to account for the looming sanctions/actual sanctions during that Penn State era as well. That is going to throw off some of the recruiting comparisons. But I agree, this is how one should look at it.

 

[HailtoPitt]

No, compare Vandy recruiting before Franklin to Vandy recruiting with Franklin and PSU recruiting before Franklin and PSU recruiting with Franklin. That is what tells the story and the difference is clear.

You can't, as neither school is comparable. Penn State had to deal with sanctions and recovering from the scandal. Almost any coach could have taken over and recruited better. Vandy only had one direction to go with recruiting, which was up.

Pitt is different. We have shown to be very consistent at recruiting with any coach. We aren't going to get anybody based on things like environment and atmosphere. We bring in recruits and they see tens of thousands of empty seats. Then they travel to other program and see their filled stadiums on campus. We just can't compete. The only way to do it is to win more game. Then recruits who care about winning will more often commit to Pitt.

 

[Jakhny]

No, you still ignored the question. If our talent is clearly worse than those 5 and the staffs are, at best, even, how do we improve our standing in the ACC? Narduzzi is also 0-3 against UNC, 0-2 against Justin Fuente and struggled to barely beat YSU in overtime.

Either our coaching has to be much, much better than those other schools or our talent has to be better.

 

[Jakhny]

One way to make up ground is to do a lot of redshirting and retain those 5th year seniors. PN seems intent on doing that. Another thing that can be done is keep NFL draftable players from electing to pursue being drafted. PN has been doing a poor job of that. When you draft at Pitts level it’s all about the seniors—just look at NC State.

 

[Jpripper88]

You can't, as neither school is comparable. Penn State had to deal with sanctions and recovering from the scandal. Almost any coach could have taken over and recruited better. Vandy only had one direction to go with recruiting, which was up.

Pitt is different. We have shown to be very consistent at recruiting with any coach. We aren't going to get anybody based on things like environment and atmosphere. We bring in recruits and they see tens of thousands of empty seats. Then they travel to other program and see their filled stadiums on campus. We just can't compete. The only way to do it is to win more game. Then recruits who care about winning will more often commit to Pitt.

Not true, at all. The coach is the recruiter. Top recruits don't give a crap about running 8 or 9 games.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Not true, at all. The coach is the recruiter. Top recruits don't give a crap about running 8 or 9 games.

Correct. They commit to somewhere that can win 11-14 games.

 

[cashisking884]

You can't, as neither school is comparable. Penn State had to deal with sanctions and recovering from the scandal. Almost any coach could have taken over and recruited better. Vandy only had one direction to go with recruiting, which was up.

Pitt is different. We have shown to be very consistent at recruiting with any coach. We aren't going to get anybody based on things like environment and atmosphere. We bring in recruits and they see tens of thousands of empty seats. Then they travel to other program and see their filled stadiums on campus. We just can't compete. The only way to do it is to win more game. Then recruits who care about winning will more often commit to Pitt.

Come on, this is just spin.
It's crazy to argue that Franklin hasn't elevated Penn State's recruiting to a level it has never seen. Maybe that isn't saying much.
Joe never struck me as a particularly elite recruiter, just somebody that took advantage of Penn State being one of the few Mid-Atlantic teams with a pulse during his time.
And O'Brien didn't really care for the college experience, included the recruiting aspect of it.
But Franklin has certainly elevated their recruiting. It's not honest to say, "Hey, Penn State was down. Any coach could have come in and made them one of the powerhouse recruiting programs in the country." Even if you believe their recruiting had to go up after the scandal, it still didn't have to go up to this level.
Same thing with Vandy. Their recruiting didn't have to go up. It could have stayed where it always has been, which is about where it has reverted back to post Franklin. He had them at 26 when he left, they haven't finished in the Top 45 since he left.

 

[Jpripper88]

Correct. They commit to somewhere that can win 11-14 games.

You don't win 11-14 games when you play 4+ more talented teams every year. They're are literally 0 examples of this. Zero.

 

[Jpripper88]

Come on, this is just spin.
It's crazy to argue that Franklin hasn't elevated Penn State's recruiting to a level it has never seen. Maybe that isn't saying much.
Joe never struck me as a particularly elite recruiter, just somebody that took advantage of Penn State being one of the few Mid-Atlantic teams with a pulse during his time.
And O'Brien didn't really care for the college experience, included the recruiting aspect of it.
But Franklin has certainly elevated their recruiting. It's not honest to say, "Hey, Penn State was down. Any coach could have come in and made them one of the powerhouse recruiting programs in the country." Even if you believe their recruiting had to go up after the scandal, it still didn't have to go up to this level.
Same thing with Vandy. Their recruiting didn't have to go up. It could have stayed where it always has been, which is about where it has reverted back to post Franklin. He had them at 26 when he left, they haven't finished in the Top 45 since he left.

The guy isn't living in reality.

 

[MyNameisJoe]

Kind of a big issue with this: That former 5 star FSU Last Chance U quarterback wasn't running their offense. They had a 2 star with 3 offers, who quit football after the season, running their offense. The other QB who played for them was a 2 star who transferred to Duquesne this off season. I'm not sure De'Andre Johnson took 20 snaps all season. Another Last Chance U Auburn transfer may have taken 30.

Couldn't agree more. And I assume he's talking about John Franklin who was at FSU, then Auburn and then to FAU playing WR...I think he signed with the Bears this year - I think. Or maybe it was De'Andre Johnson who was booted by FSU after video showed he'd punched a woman at a bar and is also at FAU

 

[Mikefln]

You decided to weigh in on football? I thought you were the country music expert.

Wow you must suck at reading comprehension if that is what you got out of my post on that thread.

As for commenting on football I do so when there is relevant football stuff to comment on. In case you haven't noticed, this board lacks relevant football topics. It is mostly Uniforms, Stadiums, Administration, Attendance and OT threads. The one football relevant topic that is talked about a lot is recruiting, and I know enough about recruiting to not talk too much about it. Too many variables to be taken too serious.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Come on, this is just spin.
It's crazy to argue that Franklin hasn't elevated Penn State's recruiting to a level it has never seen. Maybe that isn't saying much.
Joe never struck me as a particularly elite recruiter, just somebody that took advantage of Penn State being one of the few Mid-Atlantic teams with a pulse during his time.
And O'Brien didn't really care for the college experience, included the recruiting aspect of it.
But Franklin has certainly elevated their recruiting. It's not honest to say, "Hey, Penn State was down. Any coach could have come in and made them one of the powerhouse recruiting programs in the country." Even if you believe their recruiting had to go up after the scandal, it still didn't have to go up to this level.
Same thing with Vandy. Their recruiting didn't have to go up. It could have stayed where it always has been, which is about where it has reverted back to post Franklin. He had them at 26 when he left, they haven't finished in the Top 45 since he left.

You brought up Paterno and say is wasn't an elite recruiter. Yet, he was able to build a great program. Why?

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

You brought up Paterno and say is wasn't an elite recruiter. Yet, he was able to build a great program. Why?

Well he was at a time. The best thing to happen to PSU football was for the scandal happen and Paterno dying. He was holding them back. That allowed them to purge the past and go into a newer more modern direction. They have the money and infrastructure behind them to do this. A major college team sharing a market with an NFL team, not just an NFL team, but one of the 3-4 ELITE NFL franchises, just is never going to have that same following as a large state school without pro team influences.

 

[HailtoPitt]

You don't win 11-14 games when you play 4+ more talented teams every year. They're are literally 0 examples of this. Zero.

I've got some bad news. Even a great recruiter at Pitt isn't going to be able to come in and out recruit Penn State, Notre Dame and Miami. He will have to win first and stay at Pitt for years.