Nawwwww. Sliding is a way broader category than that.
It's not something you see; it's something you have to feel.
It's not something you see; it's something you have to feel.
The ref was correct, here is the rule clarification from the rulebook
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That's definitely wrong. You don't even have to actually slide to be considered down. Its the Kenny Pickett rule. It's when you start the motion. There are different interpretations of that and I'd like to see the league weigh in. But they won't.
Horseshit. It was a terrible call and it cost Pitt a win. Your virtue signaling is duly noted.
What do you mean by starting the slide?
I thought he clearly began slowing down before the market, but I didn't think he initiated his slide until he was past the sticks.
The league has already weighed in through their guidelines given to referees. The slide begins when the runner lowers his but to begin the slide motion.
Sorry but no ref should decide a game on a very judgmental call. Especially, with the play in question not being
reviewed
reviewed
well CV was the one that decided to slide well before he had too which put the refs in a position where they had to make a judgemental call. that's on him..
you are mad at the qb, not me but if it makes you feel better, i'll be here for you. go ahead, let it off your chest..
Wrong.
"Any time a ball carrier begins, simulates, or fakes a feet-first slide, the ball should be declared dead by the on field officials at that point"
Correct. That is the Pickett rule. It is strictly limited to a fake slide. An actual slide has a different rule.
It is the memo for the rule.change. it literally says "begins". C'mon.
Here is the actual rule. The full slide isnt even in the same sentence: When a ball carrier obviously begins a feet-first slide. Any time a ball carrier simulates or fakes a feet-first slide, the ball should be declared dead by the on-field officials at that point (A R 4-1-3-III and IV)
Seriously, how could it even be a separate rule?
The point of the new rule is to prevent what KP did.
Your definition doesn’t make any sense within that context.
And here are the approved rulings direct from the rule book for that exact rule:
3/10 @ A-35 Quarterback A11 sweeps to his right and goes into a feet-first slide to give himself up When he starts his slide, the forward-most point of the ball is at the A-44, and when he comes to a stop the forward-most point of the ball is at the A-46 RULING: Fourth and one at the A-44 The ball is dead at its forward-most point when he starts his slide 3/10 @ B-40 QB A12 takes the snap and rolls out to the right Finding no receiver open, A12 turns up field and runs After making the line to gain, A12 breaks stride as if he is going to slide feet first at the B-27, stays upright and runs for a touchdown RULING: The live ball becomes dead at the point where A12 simulates or fakes as if he will begin a feet-first slide An official shall sound their whistle and declare the ball dead Team A will have 1/10 @ B-27 A fake slide is not reviewable under Rule 12-3-3
The first example is NOT a fake slide. If you disagree, take it up with the NCAA as there is no "other" rule
If he wanted it to be officially reviewed, instead of pointing at the screen all he had to do was say to the ref, "I am calling a timeout to challenge the call on the field that it was not a first down."
It makes perfect when you understand that the Pickett rule is separate and strictly relates to fake slides only.
I'm not clear why you think this disagrees with anything I've said. It is exactly what I've said.
Btw, that is NOT a rule but an interpretation of the rule(s).
I sure don’t agree with your definition of a slide, at least not based on numerous other games I’ve seen where the ball was marked at the beginning of the slide act, i.e., as soon as the QB starts to drop his butt with his feet in front of him.
The call on the FSU QB yesterday definitely didn’t follow this but otherwise, most calls I’ve seen have been in line with how yesterday’s went on our QB.
I've been through the entire rule book. There's no other rule man. Cite the rule number if you're so sure. I'll even link the book for you:
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Everything I posted is copied and pasted from the rulebook. You're just making things up as you go along. I linked the full book above. Have at it. Nor just let it go because you're dead wrong.
It's when you initiate a slide, not when some random body part touches the ground. Nothing like that exists in the rule book. It's written the way that it is to account for fake slides as well. So it's when you start the slide motion. It's literally clear as day.
I wished that were true. I thought it was. But its not. Read the rulebook. I did. You are "down" when you begin your slide whether you fake it or not.
A couple responses:
- the ref's positioning: I dont know who even called it or where he was. I would agree that you should be in a good "position" to make a call like that but the call ended up being exactly right. The rule is really bad. Not the call.
- the subjective nature of when a slide begins. I get that its subjective. The rule definitely needs further clarification, I agree. However, if you freeze frame it and go frame by frame it, it is pretty clear he stopped his running motion to position his body into a sliding motion about 1 yard short. Then he is in a full slide at right about the marker. If you go frame by frame, you wont disagree that he's in a full slide right at the marker (and its 50/50 then if he is past the line to gain). But go back 1 frame and he is beginning his slide 1 yard short.
The rule sucks. It needs changed. But he began his slide too early. All this said, the ref shouldn't have called that given the spirit of the rule. Wake wasnt close to making a stop. No one would have argued if he gave him the 1st.
CV even said in the post game he may have started his slide too early. He knew.
Agree on this which is why I compared it to 2nd basemen not stepping on 2nd or GKs punting the ball a half yard outside the box. You can always call that but its understood that you shouldn't. Pitt made a good play call. Villeaux was free and clear before he gave himself up. Award the 1st down. No one complains, not even Wake. No need to be a stickler in this situation.
To help people find the rule ...... the rule is Rule 4 Article 3 Section R on page FR-62 and includes both slides and fake slides.
Examples illustrating the rule are under "Ball Declared Dead" .... AR 4-1-3 scetions III and IV on page FI-26.
I know the rulebook.
There are 2 separate sentences in the same rule. The first sentence applies to actual slides. The second sentence applies to fake slides. Where the ball is marked is different.
The Rules
ARTICLE 3. A live ball becomes dead and an official shall sound their whistle or declare it dead:
t. When a ball carrier obviously begins a feet-first slide. Any time a ball
carrier simulates or fakes a feet-first slide, the ball should be declared dead
by the on-field officials at that point. (A.R. 4-1-3-III and IV)
Interpretations
III. 3/10 @ A-35. Quarterback A11 sweeps to his right and goes into a feet-first
slide to give himself up. When he starts his slide, the forward-most point of
the ball is at the A-44, and when he comes to a stop the forward-most point
of the ball is at the A-46. RULING: Fourth and one at the A-44. The ball
is dead at its forward-most point when he starts his slide.
IV. 3/10 @ B-40. QB A12 takes the snap and rolls out to the right. Finding no
receiver open, A12 turns up field and runs. After making the line to gain,
A12 breaks stride as if he is going to slide feet first at the B-27, stays upright
and runs for a touchdown. RULING: The live ball becomes dead at the
point where A12 simulates or fakes as if he will begin a feet-first slide. An
official shall sound their whistle and declare the ball dead. Team A will have
1/10 @ B-27. A fake slide is not reviewable under Rule 12-3-3
If you take the bias out of it because of the call against Pitt yesterday, wouldn’t most logically agree that’s the way the rule should be. As soon as you start the act of a slide, you should be considered down at that point, you shouldn’t get the benefit of any extra yardage. After all, if a defender hit you after you started the act of a slide, he’d get penalized.
Can you explain how the rules you posted mean that if you begin a feet first slide, you arent down until your knee, elbow, back, or butt hit the ground?
No because it encourages QBs to dive instead of slide and that's a more dangerous play. Also, for me, those extra 2 yards gained during the actual slide SHOULD be awarded to the offense because defenders are not physically able to prevent those 2 yards in just about all situations.
You claimed there was a different rule so you obviously don't know the rulebook. There's only one rule. You claimed that over and over again. You were wrong and you just searched and found out you were wrong.
The truth is literally right in what you posted. "when a ball carrier obviously begins a feet first slide." OR any time a ball carrier simulates or fakes a feet first slide. The initial motion is what counts, otherwise you could never fake slide under the rule. It's dead when you start, whether you end up going down or not. You previously claimed that some phantom body part had to touch the ground which is what I initially responded to. That just isn't the case. It isn't in there. Anywhere. So you were clearly wrong about that. The rule is the same rule for every circumstance and it's written to be consistent whether the ball carrier actually ends up sliding or not. I cannot help you with reading comprehension, but you should pick up on the hint that literally everyone here is telling you you're wrong. Let it go. There were like 15 other bad things that happened in the one minute comedy of errors. If even one of those things doesn't happen, Pitt wins.
In no way, shape or form does the rule encourage QBs to dive instead of slide. QBs slide all the time and way more frequently than you ever see them dive. They choose to do so in order to take advantage of the rule of not getting hit/hurt.
Because football coaches are some of the dumbest people on the planet. They dont know the rule. Narduzzi sure as hell didnt. You need to dive in those situations or you are holding yourself back 2 yards.
The 2 sentences constitute 2 separate rule - with different outcomes. This really isn't that hard.
You have to be trolling right? So even though every rule in the book has its own section, subse tion etc., in this particular one each sentence is its own rule? Lol. Is each sentence on the rulebook its own rule? How do you work out the example they give in your head? I'm still waiting for you to show us the part that says anything other than "begins a feet first slide". BEGINS. Not half way through, not when you hit the ground. Begins.
You’re sounding like the dumb one, I don’t think PN had anything to do with when CV decided to start his slide, that was all on CV.
This was already posted yesterday, someone posted the entire rule verbatim from the rule book. the start of the slide is when the feet start going forward. It was clearly a first down. It should have been reviewed.
As Druid said, the official was 10 yards behind the play and run up to spot it. This isnt like spotting a catch, you cant see shoe or slide marks to indicate it. It is silly to even have the game completely hinged on this one guys spot who was in bad position.
Yes, it should have been reviewed but there is no clarification of what constitutes the beginning of the slide in the rulebook. I dont know what you saw but its not in there.
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