Its an impossible thing to call. Somehow, the ref got it exactly right but that was luck. The FSU ref missed it by 2 yards. Determining where a butt is lowered in real time is impossible. Should be where the player's knee hit like every other play and like it was for 100 years. The NCAA lost their mind over the fake slide and they over-corrected and effed everything up.
The ref was correct, here is the rule clarification from the rulebook
- Thread starter Sean Miller Fan
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Its an impossible thing to call. Somehow, the ref got it exactly right but that was luck. The FSU ref missed it by 2 yards. Determining where a butt is lowered in real time is impossible. Should be where the player's knee hit like every other play and like it was for 100 years. The NCAA lost their mind over the fake slide and they over-corrected and effed everything up.
- It's no more impossible to call than pass interference, holding, spotting a punt out of bounds, etc.
- The QB being down and spotted from the moment he starts the slide is at least 6 years old.
- Just because FSU's ref missed a call doesn't mean the rule should be changed.
He started the slide past the first down and stopped even further past it. A-44 was at least the 17 yard and A-46 was past the 18. Are we so crazy now that we don’t believe our own eyes? Maybe we didn’t land on the moon after all.
I’m really tired of the gaslighting to back this asinine rule and the asinine refs who aren’t ever the least bit consistent so ….. in other words completely unworthy of all the defense they get.
I’m even further disgusted that PITT is in a position where they’d even attempt to pull this shit with such a stupid level of microscopic technicality..,,it a basic lack of respect to pull this and have FSU actually getting away with what they were supposedly trying to stop on the CV call…
I’ve never seen this call made this way before and don’t expect to see it again… or the rule needs thrown out and start over
Someone said it the other day… if CV gets blasted by a defender at the point he’s supposedly “lowering his ass” (or whatever it is) they very likely, probably, almost certainly don’t even flag it…it’s become self parody listening to people explaining these rules
I’m even further disgusted that PITT is in a position where they’d even attempt to pull this shit with such a stupid level of microscopic technicality..,,it a basic lack of respect to pull this and have FSU actually getting away with what they were supposedly trying to stop on the CV call…
I’ve never seen this call made this way before and don’t expect to see it again… or the rule needs thrown out and start over
Someone said it the other day… if CV gets blasted by a defender at the point he’s supposedly “lowering his ass” (or whatever it is) they very likely, probably, almost certainly don’t even flag it…it’s become self parody listening to people explaining these rules
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Slovis or Patti did the same thing last year and it resulted in a 4th and 1. It was early in the game so no one remembers it as it was insignificant. It was near midfield I think and we went for it and got it on the next play.
“Someone said it the other day… if CV gets blasted by a defender at the point he’s supposedly “lowering his ass” (or whatever it is) they very likely, probably, almost certainly don’t even flag it.”
C’mon Druid….you’re better than this.
The instant the QB shows any sign of giving up by initiating a slide is the exact instant he is protected. It is also the exact instant the play is dead and establishes the spot of the ball for the next play.
Quarterbacks are protected on 99.9% of these plays. You know that. You’re too smart of of a football fan to say otherwise.
I froze the frame at the point CV began to give himself up. The line to gain was at the 17-yard line. CV’s feet are at the 16, a full yard short of the yellow line. The ball is in his left hand and actually between the 15 and 16. The official is following the play is at the 10-yard line with a clear, unobscured view of the play.
It sucks to have a sure victory disappear like that, but the official performed flawlessly on the play. The fact that lots of fans don’t like it doesn’t make it wrong.
C’mon Druid….you’re better than this.
The instant the QB shows any sign of giving up by initiating a slide is the exact instant he is protected. It is also the exact instant the play is dead and establishes the spot of the ball for the next play.
Quarterbacks are protected on 99.9% of these plays. You know that. You’re too smart of of a football fan to say otherwise.
I froze the frame at the point CV began to give himself up. The line to gain was at the 17-yard line. CV’s feet are at the 16, a full yard short of the yellow line. The ball is in his left hand and actually between the 15 and 16. The official is following the play is at the 10-yard line with a clear, unobscured view of the play.
It sucks to have a sure victory disappear like that, but the official performed flawlessly on the play. The fact that lots of fans don’t like it doesn’t make it wrong.
If the official is 6 yards behind the play, whether his view is unobstructed or not, he is not in a good position to determine where the runner was down.
The referee who made the call was the official that was standing on the 9.5 yard line when he made the call. Look at the video and you can see him run out to the spot to mark the ball. Again, no way the guy could fairly judge when CV "started" to slide from 6-7 yards behind the play. Also, you mentioned that I look at the freeze frame f the play...II say STOP. The referee who made the call did not look a video of the play frame by frame. The guy was 100% wrong and so are you in regards to this issue. Will the ACC say anything too the contrary? Nope, they will not say a word. The best case scenario for Pitt would be to have the ACC announce that the official made the wrong judgement call. Unfortunately, there is nothing that can be done about it to correct the error.
The ACC will do just like the biden administration has done for almost three years now...deny, deny, deny. If they do not admit to it, then it never happened.
They just had this on bad beats. Ripped the spot to shreds and then questioned if the last TD was actually a catch. Spent a good bit of time ridiculing the officials for blowing this game.
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Yeah, the picture that keeps getting shown that makes it look like he is starting to slide ahead of the down marker is misleading. He was up for another step or two.
That's why last Saturday's play should have been a "good no call" so the refs don't look like they're determining the outcome, like they did @ WF Saturday afternoon.
That's a good point. Some officials are so enamored with the rules that they forget that the application of the rules is more important. Sort of like, "there's holding on every play." That's not the case because the application of the rule matters. Again, the most frustrating part of this is that the rule isn't being applied uniformly.
None of the arguing in this thread matters.
The rule clearly states it is where the SLIDE begins,
So what constitutes a slide? EASY. this is the definition
Slide
IT WAS A FIRST DOWN
The rule clearly states it is where the SLIDE begins,
So what constitutes a slide? EASY. this is the definition
Slide
- 1.move along a smooth surface while maintaining continuous contact with it:"she slid down the bank into the water"
IT WAS A FIRST DOWN
They have defined it as when the ass is lowered, which was one yard short. Also, I dont understand the logic of the "contact with the ground." Which body part? His feet were already on the ground. When his knee or leg hit? Well, that wouldn't be any different than the regular football rule
No they havent
The rule is a slide. A slide is making continuous contact with the turf. Maybe you defined it?
But a slide is not when the butt is lowered.
It was absolutely a first down
How do you not understand ".move along a smooth surface while maintaining continuous contact with it" surely you can understand that. Are you questioning if you are sliding at all times????? Should every football player be down the second they make contact with the football?
It is insane that people like you can just make up definitions, and then not understand actual definitions.
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And the guy actually spotted the ball there!
Ref far off to the left …
No where near CV…. CV …” still running “
Spare me.
Didnt even care where the slide started as per the rules
I didn't redefine it. The NCAA did. Conveniently, its not in the rulebook. Its in a video tutorial the refs use. The start of the slide, they define as the lowering of the ass....some call it the Penn State rule since they know how to lower asses in the locker room showers.
We can debate the positioning of the ref and we can debate whether that should be the rule. But the rule is the rule and the ref got it right. I hate the rule
He's clearly dropped his butt and is in the process of sliding. The tip of the ball in his left arm and clearly behind the line. I still think the spot was about a foot off, but it was not a first down.
Ref far off to the left …
No where near CV…. CV …” still running “
Spare me.
Yeah. It's goofy. It's obvious in the screenshot he was simply slowing his momentum but still running so that he could then commit to the slide and stay in bounds after the 1st down mark as he did. Just a brutal, brutal call.
You’re too funny, trying to use a generic dictionary definition of slide for a rule used in football.
I’ll say the same thing I said to Druid, if you don’t think the start of a slide is frequently called similar to the CV call, then you don’t watch much football.
Did they inform Duke that they got boned?
???
I dont understand how the definition of a slide is not directly correlated to the actual rule that says the player is down when the slide is started.
It is not. It is always called where the QB is down. They never give them where the slide goes to, because the rule says it is down where the slide starts.
Anyways, it is in the rule book. It is where the slide starts. The slide is defined when the body slides on the ground. So the start is where he hits the ground. It isnt a gray area, it is in the rules. The referee missed it.
I get it, you feel the need to be a jerk and claim on a football board that someone doesnt watch football.... ok. But, conversely if you havent seen a ton of spots on the actual rule which is the start of the slide called, then you dont watch football either. It was well documented on saturday all the other examples of refs calling the play correctly
Post in thread 'The ref was correct, here is the rule clarification from the rulebook' https://pittsburgh.forums.rivals.co...ication-from-the-rulebook.227806/post-4378446
This post shows the full explanation of the rule from the NCAA. It does not leave any room for interpretation. You can say that you don't think that's how it should be and that is fair, but it is what it is and the ball is blown dead when your backside lowers. End of story.
And for clarification the is new since the KP slide. It did used to be the way you are describing. The change in 2019 is why it is in the above video from the NCAA.
No, the way you think I described is just the rule for any play being down. This is literally the new rule as stated in the ACTUAL rulebook:
r. When a ball carrier obviously begins a feet-first slide. (A.R. 4-1-3:III)
Approved Ruling 4-1-3
- Third and 10 at the A-35. Quarterback A11 sweeps to his right and goes into a feet-first slide to give himself up. When he starts his slide, the forward-most point of the ball is at the A-44, and when he comes to a stop the forward-most point of the ball is at the A-46. RULING: Fourth and one at the A-44. The ball is dead at its forward-most point when he starts his slide. [Cited by 4-1-3-r]
Anyways, why make a rule book, and rules, if refs wont actually follow it? Most other refs, in most other games follow it.
Sorry, just don’t agree with you. I sure don’t know where in the rule book it states that the start of the slide is when the body is on the ground. And I also don’t agree with you, I’ve seen a number of games with ball spots made at the start of the slide act, not body contact with ground.
I posted that same rule in this thread before anyone. Watch the video that was also posted in this thread. It's from the NCAA and gives a complete explanation of how the rule is supposed to be applied. It is the single source of truth, not a fans interpretation.
The NCAA is starting that the ball is dead as soon as the ball carrier lowers his backside. That's it. Nothing else.
To give an example, it's like you get pulled over and cited by the police for breaking a law. You believe that the way the law is written proves that you did not break the law. So you go to court and see a judge. Well, the NCAA is the judge in this case and they say the ball carrier does not need to touch the ground, just lower his backside. The directive is clear as day in then video.
You can contradict the NCAA all you want, but they are the ultimate arbiter of how the rule should be applied, not you. The ACC has also weighed in and said the play was called correctly.
Sorry, Stache.
You are wrong this time.
The call was correct per the rules.
The fault lies with CV.
It’s too bad, but the KP play forced a change in the rule and it’s enforcement. KP found a loophole in the letter of the law with his fake slide, but destroyed the spirit of the law in the process.
You are wrong this time.
The call was correct per the rules.
The fault lies with CV.
It’s too bad, but the KP play forced a change in the rule and it’s enforcement. KP found a loophole in the letter of the law with his fake slide, but destroyed the spirit of the law in the process.
It says in the rule book, it is where the slide starts. A slide IS having your body make continuous contact with a surface. If it was the other way, then the rule book would say...." its where the butt lowers" or "it is where the player leaves his feet" or "its where a player prepares to slide"
It says none of these things. It says where the slide begins. Also, it gives an example where the entire slide takes 2 yards until the player comes to rest, which aligns to the actual slide, not preparing to slide.
And ... you did not disagree with my second point, since I never said that. I simply said I have seen many many games where the referees called it the correct way and spotted the ball where the actual slide happened, as it states in the rule book.
Yeah but it's ambiguous enough that the official can call the "backside" going to the ground three steps before his butt actually hits the ground because of how he is getting into his slide. Or not until he leaves his feet. This was a good example of that problem and why the rule isn't being applied uniformly. If this is the correct way to call it then it's also true that most officials aren't spotting the ball correctly based on this interpretation.
I give up, got nothing to come back at you with. I’ll just assume you’re lightheartedly messing around with your insistence that NCAA rules state that the start of a slide isn’t until the body hits the ground.
That's how it should be though, the runner is already being penalized yardage to avoid a hit. So, the spot should be where his butt hits the ground, that's also a good way to determine because it's easy to determine the exact spot on a review.
Dude, the NCAA doesnt use the Webster's definition of a slide. Please stop quoting that. The ass lowering language is NOT in the rulebook. We have told you that. It should be but its not. Its in some video clarification given to the refs that someone posted here.
Like I say above, they should take the subjectivity out of it and mark it where the butt contacts the ground, you can see that on a video replay.
Right on cue, this happened in a WPIAL soccer playoff game last night. These refs have to understand the spirt of the rule and not be such nerds who take everything literally. The ref should have given CV the 1st down even though by rule, his ass was lowered a yard short. And the ref shouldn't have called a handball on the GK for punting 2 inches outside his box. You just dont call that.
Rare call helps South Fayette boys upset Plum in boys soccer playoffs | Trib HSSN
It was one of the rarer calls rarely seen in a soccer match.
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