It's almost as if I am considering more to their careers than which one had the better arm.
I know, right? Who knew?
Top 10 Pittsburgh Sports Figures of All Time
- Thread starter steel_curtain
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It's almost as if I am considering more to their careers than which one had the better arm.
I know, right? Who knew?
here's a link for you, Joe The OhSoSerious Panther:
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=humor
Mike Webster?? Bettis?? Ahead of Lambert, Blount, Swann, Bradshaw, Ham,The Joebot??
Clemente one of the 5 greatest players ever??
uhh no....
Stan Musial....From western PA????
Yes...very much so.....
uhh no....
Stan Musial....From western PA????
Yes...very much so.....
Easily
-12 Golden Gloves
-15X All Star
-4 Time NL batting Champion
-World Series MVP, 2X World Series Champion
-3000 career hits in only 17 seasons, more hits than Bonds, Ruth, Griffey Jr., Lou Gehrig, and Mickey Mantle
-.320 career batting average
-Arguably the greatest defensive player in the history of baseball any position. Clemente or Willie Mays.
He's 39th in career WAR, 26th among position players. He is 59th in career batting average and is so far down the OPB list that he isn't even on the list. He's 224th in career slugging percentage and 229th in career OPS. It you like the traditional counting stats he's 244th in home runs and 111th in RBIs. His OPS+, which accounts for era and ballpark is 130, which is 169th. If he was a great fielding short stop with those offensive numbers he might merit consideration as a top five of all time player. Instead, he was perhaps the greatest fielder at the 7th most important position on the field for fielding. (By way of comparison, Bond's OPS+ is 182, Wagner's is 151.)
Other than you (and perhaps a few other deranged Pittsburghers) there is no one that thinks that Clemente is one of the five best baseball players of all time.
By the way, the reason that Clemente has more hits than Bonds is while Clemente spent 18 seasons only getting 621 walks Bonds walked 2558 times in his career. Clemente's hits plus walks total is 3621, Bond's is 5493. Now Bonds had more than 2000 more at bats, but look at it this way. Clemente would have had to have come to the plate 1872 times in a row without making an out to equal Bond's total. 1872 times in a row.
Oh, one more thing. 18 seasons, not 17. If you are going to quote numbers you could at least get them correct.
and yet Boures....who you seemingly are poking fun at...played in the league for multiple seasons and was an integral part of one of the greatest OL's in CFB history....
-That's wonderful, really. It looks like Im not the only baseball fan that thinks this way.
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sp...not-mays-deserves-title-of-greatest/32202433/
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/page/mlbrank100_crasnicktop10/mlbrank-crasnick-my-all-top-10
http://www.thetoptens.com/baseball-players/roberto-clemente-54344.asp
http://thesportdigest.com/2016/07/the-real-greatest-baseball-players-of-all-time/
-And I could post 50 more. Oh, and Willie Mays and Hank Aaron? Those guys? Both publicly said Clemente was the best player overall all time. Their opinion, not mine.
Wagner probably the only one on this list who was ever considered the greatest player in the history of their sport for any period of time. At the time many people (including John McGraw) thought him a better all around player than Cobb. Lemieux may have a few supporters in his sport as well.
I will submit Harry Greb, Dick Allen, and Fred Clarke as a few names that haven't been mentioned yet.
I will submit Harry Greb, Dick Allen, and Fred Clarke as a few names that haven't been mentioned yet.
Dan Marino isnt even in the Top 2 QBs, let alone Top 10 sports figures.
His impact in/on Pittsburgh is dwarfed by Terry Bradshaw and Ben Roethlisberger.
His impact in/on Pittsburgh is dwarfed by Terry Bradshaw and Ben Roethlisberger.
Ben Roethlisberger ALL DAY/EVERY DAY over Bettis! Ben MADE FATBOY BETTIS! Bettis is never a champion without Ben carrying his fat ass there! Ben even saved him from being an all time legendary goat with a game saving tackle vs. the Colts in the '05 playoffs.
I don't think Franco belongs on the list. I'd replace him with Terry Bradshaw or Kurt Angle (dude won a Gold Medal with a broken neck!) Bettis isn't even close to making this list. If any modern Steeler should make this list, it's Troy Polamalu.
I did, as did many of you, forget Dick Groat. And as far as the list is concerned, it is not "your favorite players" or "hockey is behind football" (here baseball is behind hockey).......it is top 10 Pittsburgh Sports Figures of All Time. That would account for playing and overall impact. I redid my list with reasons.
Which again, Lemieux is one, and you can start the argument at #2.
1) Mario. There is an arena and a hockey team here because of him. There are almost 300 straight sell outs here, there are 4 championships in the last 25 years. Because of him. Not to mention he is considered to be one of the top 4 players in the sport of all time, and he is now the owner of the Pens. Oh yeah, beat Cancer in his prime, almost had his career ended by severe back ailments, the numbers he would have had without these would have been amazing.
2) Arnie. I put him here just because he ushered in the sport of golf into the TV era, he took it from the country club to the mill, he popularized a sport. His impact can't be understated.
3) Joe Greene. The lynchpin to the 4 Super Bowl champions in the 70's. He is considered one of the best DL of all time. But the Steelers would still have been here with him or without him, still have been good without him and his impact was limited on the playing field. Doesn't matter if football or the Steelers are more popular than hockey, the fact that we even have to make that statement is because of Mario Lemieux.
4) Roberto Clemente. Put him over Honus Wagner, just because more impact in the modern era, not to mention bonus points for his humanitarian efforts and the fact that he was really the first of the Latino's to be recognized as a baseball superstar. Oh by the way, he was pretty damn good.
5) Sidney Crosby. Again, the Pens and its fans have been extremely lucky. How often do you get best player in the game on a franchise? His arrival ushered in 2 more cups, helped seal a new arena, and the Pens every year are a threat to win it all.
6) Tony Dorsett. I contend no college player had a better, more impactful career. National title, Heisman, on a program that was worse than the very worst of P5 teams today. He put Pitt on the map. I dropped him a bit though realizing Pitt only briefly capitalized on his success.
7) Honus Wagner. Probably if he played when there was actual TV and electronic media, he would be higher on the list. Some consider him still to be the greatest SS of all time.
8) Chuck Noll. Yinz said "sports figures" right? Well the architect of the Super Steelers has to be on the list. He drafted Greene, Bradshaw, etc....coached 4 Super Bowls and was innovative in many ways like Belichick is today.
9) Dick Groat. NL MVP. Duke All American, and NBA 3rd pick overall. Also, from Swissvale. He is Pittsburgh through and through and arguably its greatest overall athlete.
10) Billy Conn. World Light Heavyweight Champion, went up in class and almost beat Joe Louis.
Which again, Lemieux is one, and you can start the argument at #2.
1) Mario. There is an arena and a hockey team here because of him. There are almost 300 straight sell outs here, there are 4 championships in the last 25 years. Because of him. Not to mention he is considered to be one of the top 4 players in the sport of all time, and he is now the owner of the Pens. Oh yeah, beat Cancer in his prime, almost had his career ended by severe back ailments, the numbers he would have had without these would have been amazing.
2) Arnie. I put him here just because he ushered in the sport of golf into the TV era, he took it from the country club to the mill, he popularized a sport. His impact can't be understated.
3) Joe Greene. The lynchpin to the 4 Super Bowl champions in the 70's. He is considered one of the best DL of all time. But the Steelers would still have been here with him or without him, still have been good without him and his impact was limited on the playing field. Doesn't matter if football or the Steelers are more popular than hockey, the fact that we even have to make that statement is because of Mario Lemieux.
4) Roberto Clemente. Put him over Honus Wagner, just because more impact in the modern era, not to mention bonus points for his humanitarian efforts and the fact that he was really the first of the Latino's to be recognized as a baseball superstar. Oh by the way, he was pretty damn good.
5) Sidney Crosby. Again, the Pens and its fans have been extremely lucky. How often do you get best player in the game on a franchise? His arrival ushered in 2 more cups, helped seal a new arena, and the Pens every year are a threat to win it all.
6) Tony Dorsett. I contend no college player had a better, more impactful career. National title, Heisman, on a program that was worse than the very worst of P5 teams today. He put Pitt on the map. I dropped him a bit though realizing Pitt only briefly capitalized on his success.
7) Honus Wagner. Probably if he played when there was actual TV and electronic media, he would be higher on the list. Some consider him still to be the greatest SS of all time.
8) Chuck Noll. Yinz said "sports figures" right? Well the architect of the Super Steelers has to be on the list. He drafted Greene, Bradshaw, etc....coached 4 Super Bowls and was innovative in many ways like Belichick is today.
9) Dick Groat. NL MVP. Duke All American, and NBA 3rd pick overall. Also, from Swissvale. He is Pittsburgh through and through and arguably its greatest overall athlete.
10) Billy Conn. World Light Heavyweight Champion, went up in class and almost beat Joe Louis.
Ben Rothlisberger above any modern Steeler, even if he RAPED AND BATTERED all of the Rockettes at once. If they don't draft him, they are still selling "One for the Thumb" t shirts 100% for sure. He's to the modern Super Bowl Era of the Steelers like Mean Joe was to the '70s Steelers.
I think Ben is one more good postseason away from that list. As much as Del is loony with his dislike of Ben, he does have some points.
I happen to disagree, Ben carried the Steelers through the '05 playoffs with his arm and even his tackling, if he's not on that team, if it's Tommy Maddox or Kordell, they don't reach the Super Bowl that Ben played bad in but won. And Super Bowl XLIII, hand the ball to Kordell and Bettis, or Tommy Maddox at the the 18 with 2 minutes left, they Cardinals win, they never drive the length of the field for the Santonio TD. Troy was good, but defensive players don't carry teams the way QBs do.
I'm not saying they'd have won the SB with Kordell instead of Ben. Not at all. What I am saying is they wouldn't have won either SB if they had Mike Mitchell instead of Polamalu. Ben was tremendous in that SB vs. ARZ, but without some heroics from Troy (leaping over the O-line on a 4th and inches play, the game-winning INT) they likely lose in the AFC Championship Game.
I wanted to see how long this would go until somebody mentioned Harry Greb. Not at all famous because he fought 100 years in lower weight classes, but one of the greatest boxers of all time. Billy Conn was famous because of the Joe Louis bout, but he had nowhere near the career that Greb had. If you are talking about actual greatness in their sport while performing in Pittsburgh, he's in my top 5 with Greene, Lemieux, Wagner and maybe Blount.
I would like to say Clemente, but he just doesn't have the numbers to make a convincing argument with anyone who disagrees. Particular in a numbers dominated sport. I'd also like to say Palmer just because of the guy he was, but numbers wise I'm not sure that he would be in the top 10 golfers of all time. Probably, but I'd have to do a little research to be sure.
Remember "sports figures", I think transcends more than just pure numbers and stats. The fact that I never heard of Greb, as most of us haven't, makes it difficult. Clemente was really the first Latino superstar in baseball. Jackie Robinson didn't have overwhelming stats, but his impact is undeniable. I think the same for Clemente, and he did have great numbers.
Not with these guys making him bail every time he bats. Not sure he would have been mentally tough enough, hell he wasn't tough enough to even show up in the playoffs. Clemente always came to play.
You're right about "sports figures", I didn't really think about the definition of that. In that case, Clemente, Palmer and Bradshaw would be near the top of the list.
They're not my role models, they're not my friends, they're not my brothers, I'm never going to have a beer with them, I don't even want too, I don't even ask for autographs, because I figure that I'm more important than they are, so F 'em! I don't even root for people, I just root for the uniforms, so whoever kicks asss on the field to win games to make my "TV SHOW" more personally satisfying, that's who I root for, no matter who they rape or kill or beat, or how many kids they send home crying without autographs, JUST WIN BABY.
That is why I included Chuck Noll. You can also make the case for Art/Dan Rooney.
1. They wouldn't.
2. The talent and approach to using pitching staffs was far inferior to today.
Bonds had a career .936 postseason OPS to Clemente's .803. In 2002 Barry Bonds may have had the greatest postseason by a hitter, ever. Bonds was also issued 21 IBBs in just the postseason.
Dan rooney was for the most part, the architect of the steelers dynasty. art had handed over control to his son and I believe (But could be wrong) that it was dan's call in starting to scout a lot of the southern all black schools as well as being the first nfl team to really have a S&C program. of course he found Noll.. Dan Rooney IS the biggest reason that the Steelers are what they are..
Maybe not enough of Branch Rickey's career was spent in Pittsburgh to merit consideration, but few people had more of an impact on any professional sport.
Noll is one of my favorite people in sports. I didn't pick him for a top sports figure because he was an unassuming guy that was content to have his players take the fame, which is why I like him.
I think Lemieux gets a little to much credit for saving the Penguins franchise. If I remember correctly, the team owed him a lot of money and the main reason he bought the team was to ensure that he collected what he was owed. I'm not saying there was anything wrong with that or that he hasn't been a good owner, just that his motive wasn't completely altruistic.
I also think that the Pens could have won several more cups if he hadn't forced Scotty Bowman out. I'm not as big of a hockey fan as other sports, but I believe Bowman ranks with guys like Wooden and Auerbach as all time great coaches. Lemieux wanted Eddie Johnston, though.
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don't think the list is about coming out of western pa (else one would see Joe Montana and several others), think it is about stardom in western pa...Dick Groat does not make a top 10 cut...
