Top 5 players from Western PA over last 25 years

[OhioPittFan]

Re: Salvadori made a decent career for himself at UNC ...

David Young from New Castle would probably be in the mix. Top 100 recruit by most services, went to Xavier transferred to NC Central, drafted by Sonics. I think he was state player of the year by either usa today or Gatorade.

 

[drunkinoakland]

Re: Drunk ... you make a good point ...

Higgins and McCallister and Schifino all had decent careers too.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Re: Salvadori made a decent career for himself at UNC ...

Yea it wasn't clear cut by any means. And I figured Zeke's stats would be better however he clearly had less competition both in who he was up against for playing time as well as his competition in the MAC.

This post was edited on 4/7 9:40 PM by King Of All Message Boards

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Re: Yes, but I'm wondering if he's looking for the 5 best recruits ...

What about Jim McCoy? Still the leading scorer in UMass history I believe.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Re: Yes, but I'm wondering if he's looking for the 5 best recruits ...

Herndon from Allderdice was pretty good as well.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

Re: Yes, but I'm wondering if he's looking for the 5 best recruits ...


What's the timeframe on McCoy and Herndon? I'm not sure, but they may be outside the 25-year window.

 

[Ogden1325]

I was gonna say Schfino and Young too think they both really underrated. Heck Schifino led Big East in scoring at WVU before he got kicked off. Remember seeing those New Castle teams with Young and Ed Pagley they were really good.

This post was edited on 4/7 9:55 PM by Ogden1325

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Re: Yes, but I'm wondering if he's looking for the 5 best recruits ...

That was the one thing I wasn't sure of but pretty sure it's close. I was too lazy too look it up so they may be disqualified.

 

[DT_PITT]

I didn't include McCoy because he graduated in 1988 ...

... outside Owtie's 25 year window.

And looking at this list, Salvadori was actually in 89 as well.



Fab 5's

 

[BFo8]

People forget how good Jim McKoy was at UMass. That program had been so godawful for so long and Mckoy graduated right before they hit the big time. Without Jim Mckoy there may not have been a Marcus Camby or Donta Bright or Lou Roe. Guy was a scoring machine.

He obviously doesn't fit in the time line, but the late Armon Gilliam probably had a pro career second only to Maurice Lucas.

 

[ameoba defense]

McCoy and Hearndon put UMass on the map. I think they lost to UK in the Sweet Sixteen McCoy's senior year. They landed a real big time recruit in Lou Roe while McCoy was still there, and that opened the door to land Donta Bright, who was another big recruit, with Camby following a year later. Roe was gone when they had the big season in 1996. Easily the best team to ever come out of the A 10. They played the two best teams in the BE that year, (Syracuse, and Georgetown with Iverson), and won by 18, and 24 points. They split 2 games with the great Kentucky team of that year, but lost the wrong one. The NCAA really screwed up by not having a UK-UMass Final that year. They used to have an inflexible bracket, that didn't allow for any adjustments. Since they had the East, and whatever region was close to Kentucky, playing in the semis, they would have had to send one of the teams far away in order to have a chance at a UK-UMass Final. Those two had lapped the field that year, so we missed out on an epic matchup in the Final. Syracuse, a team that UMass dusted during the season, ended up in the Final.

This post was edited on 4/8 1:59 AM by ameoba defense

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Re: Yes, but I'm wondering if he's looking for the 5 best recruits ...

Originally posted by King Of All Message Boards:
What about Jim McCoy? Still the leading scorer in UMass history I believe.

Since 1990. Please, keep it to these players

 

[DT_PITT]

Here's a thought ...

... this is the best college team that I could come up with made up of players from Western PA from the last 25 years.



Starting Five

C- Dejuan Blair
F-Danny Fortson
F-DeAndre Kane
G-Dante Calabria
G-TJ McConnell

Other scholarships

F-DJ Kennedy
F-Pete Sauer
C-Zeke Marshall
G-Devin Wilson
F-Mike Young
G-Archie Miller
G-Tom Pipkins
F-Herb Pope
On this list, we have a total of 3 All-Americans (Kane, Blair, Fortson) and 4 players who were All-Conference (McConnell, Pope, Pipkins, and Marshall -- the last two in the A-10 and MAC) and one who could be (Young).

For an area with the metro population of Pittsburgh, this is an incredibly small list.

 

[NTOP]

Wow.....and no NBA stars, or even close.

No wonder Jamie's on the road so much. I'm hoping for Cam Johnson to be really good in a couple of years. The last Pgh guy to make a splash in the NBA was Mo Lucas?

 

[Harve74]

Re: Here's a thought ...

I'd add Ben McCauley ahead of a couple guys. Kevin Salvadori's numbers weren't quite what Zeke Marshall's were but the ACC in those days was a lot tougher than Akron's competition.

Myron Brown is another guy right on the borderline of your 25 years, but was better than a couple of your guards.

I'm in the camp that thinks Pryor would have been in the NBA now if he'd stuck with hoops.

Just a horrible list compared to one you could make for the 25 PREVIOUS years. What a drop off.

 

[HonestPitt]

Re: Here's a thought ...

Originally posted by DT_PITT:
... this is the best college team that I could come up with made up of players from Western PA from the last 25 years.




Starting Five

C- Dejuan Blair
F-Danny Fortson
F-DeAndre Kane
G-Dante Calabria
G-TJ McConnell

Other scholarships

F-DJ Kennedy
F-Pete Sauer
C-Zeke Marshall
G-Devin Wilson
F-Mike Young
G-Archie Miller
G-Tom Pipkins
F-Herb Pope
On this list, we have a total of 3 All-Americans (Kane, Blair, Fortson) and 4 players who were All-Conference (McConnell, Pope, Pipkins, and Marshall -- the last two in the A-10 and MAC) and one who could be (Young).

For an area with the metro population of Pittsburgh, this is an incredibly small list.

Again, why no Kevin Price? He is second all time scoring and it is not close. Besides the guys that went to the NBA, what have these other guys done to deserve your vote? Please shut me up..lol!

 

[Harve74]

Re: Here's a thought ...

Well, maybe he should be on the list.

Probably his conviction for dealing has soured many on his athletic records.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Re: Here's a thought ...

Originally posted by DT_PITT:
... this is the best college team that I could come up with made up of players from Western PA from the last 25 years.




Starting Five

C- Dejuan Blair
F-Danny Fortson
F-DeAndre Kane
G-Dante Calabria
G-TJ McConnell

Other scholarships

F-DJ Kennedy
F-Pete Sauer
C-Zeke Marshall
G-Devin Wilson
F-Mike Young
G-Archie Miller
G-Tom Pipkins
F-Herb Pope
On this list, we have a total of 3 All-Americans (Kane, Blair, Fortson) and 4 players who were All-Conference (McConnell, Pope, Pipkins, and Marshall -- the last two in the A-10 and MAC) and one who could be (Young).

For an area with the metro population of Pittsburgh, this is an incredibly small list.

DT, a few months back I posted something that the (relatively) small African American population of the Western PA region with comparable sized markets had something to do with this. Because race is a political football, people discounted or just did not want to discuss this. So.....who knows. But......one other thing I brought up in another thread, is possibly the lack of an NBA presence locally that could relate to this same phenomena.

Like posted above, just in the last 4 years, the greater Milwaukee area has produced 4 Five Star kids and 10 Four star kids. This is just in 4 years. Sam Dekker, Bronson Koenig, Devon Looney, JP Tokoto, Luke Fischer are among these kids.

4 years. That is just incredible, and no one is really considering this area the hotbed of HS basketball.

 

[ameoba defense]

Re: Here's a thought ...

Originally posted by recruitsreadtheseboards:

Originally posted by DT_PITT:
... this is the best college team that I could come up with made up of players from Western PA from the last 25 years.




Starting Five

C- Dejuan Blair
F-Danny Fortson
F-DeAndre Kane
G-Dante Calabria
G-TJ McConnell

Other scholarships

F-DJ Kennedy
F-Pete Sauer
C-Zeke Marshall
G-Devin Wilson
F-Mike Young
G-Archie Miller
G-Tom Pipkins
F-Herb Pope
On this list, we have a total of 3 All-Americans (Kane, Blair, Fortson) and 4 players who were All-Conference (McConnell, Pope, Pipkins, and Marshall -- the last two in the A-10 and MAC) and one who could be (Young).

For an area with the metro population of Pittsburgh, this is an incredibly small list.

DT, a few months back I posted something that the (relatively) small African American population of the Western PA region with comparable sized markets had something to do with this. Because race is a political football, people discounted or just did not want to discuss this. So.....who knows. But......one other thing I brought up in another thread, is possibly the lack of an NBA presence locally that could relate to this same phenomena.

Like posted above, just in the last 4 years, the greater Milwaukee area has produced 4 Five Star kids and 10 Four star kids. This is just in 4 years. Sam Dekker, Bronson Koenig, Devon Looney, JP Tokoto, Luke Fischer are among these kids.

4 years. That is just incredible, and no one is really considering this area the hotbed of HS basketball.

In the heart of the Midwest, hoops seems to be a much bigger deal among white kids than it is back east. The Big 10 always seems to have plenty of white kids who can play. Not so much back this way. In places like Indiana especially, there seems to be a basketball culture among whites that sort of compliments the inner city basketball culture. In Pittsburgh, even the inner city hoops culture has become weak. The outdoor courts are mostly empty now. That never was the case 40 years ago.

I wonder if any of this is related to the rise in violence in the inner city. The level of violence in Pittsburgh's inner city used to be exceptionally low compared to other cities. As late as 1988 (before crack really became entrenched), Pittsburgh only had 24 murders for the entire year. People from out of town used to be amazed at the lack of bars on the windows in rough neighborhoods, and the fact that you could go into a store on the Hill, or in Homewood, and the clerk would be out in the open, instead of behind bulletproof glass. For an inner city area, Pittsburgh's "hoods" were comparatively safe prior to the arrival of crack. What shootings there were, tended to either be domestic, or confined to rough bars after dark. I think the current constant shootings, and mini "wars" among cliques, has contributed to the decline of playground basketball. Kids don't feel safe being out in the open, where thugs might come gunning for someone, and shoot up the playground. Places like Baltimore, Detroit, and Philly have been dangerous for far longer, and the locals have adjusted to the risks better than they have here.

This post was edited on 4/8 12:56 PM by ameoba defense

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Re: Here's a thought ...

Originally posted by ameoba defense:

Originally posted by recruitsreadtheseboards:

Originally posted by DT_PITT:
... this is the best college team that I could come up with made up of players from Western PA from the last 25 years.





Starting Five

C- Dejuan Blair
F-Danny Fortson
F-DeAndre Kane
G-Dante Calabria
G-TJ McConnell

Other scholarships

F-DJ Kennedy
F-Pete Sauer
C-Zeke Marshall
G-Devin Wilson
F-Mike Young
G-Archie Miller
G-Tom Pipkins
F-Herb Pope
On this list, we have a total of 3 All-Americans (Kane, Blair, Fortson) and 4 players who were All-Conference (McConnell, Pope, Pipkins, and Marshall -- the last two in the A-10 and MAC) and one who could be (Young).

For an area with the metro population of Pittsburgh, this is an incredibly small list.

DT, a few months back I posted something that the (relatively) small African American population of the Western PA region with comparable sized markets had something to do with this. Because race is a political football, people discounted or just did not want to discuss this. So.....who knows. But......one other thing I brought up in another thread, is possibly the lack of an NBA presence locally that could relate to this same phenomena.

Like posted above, just in the last 4 years, the greater Milwaukee area has produced 4 Five Star kids and 10 Four star kids. This is just in 4 years. Sam Dekker, Bronson Koenig, Devon Looney, JP Tokoto, Luke Fischer are among these kids.

4 years. That is just incredible, and no one is really considering this area the hotbed of HS basketball.

In the heart of the Midwest, hoops seems to be a much bigger deal among white kids than it is back east. The Big 10 always seems to have plenty of white kids who can play. Not so much back this way. In places like Indiana especially, there seems to be a basketball culture among whites that sort of compliments the inner city basketball culture. In Pittsburgh, even the inner city hoops culture has become weak. The outdoor courts are mostly empty now. That never was the case 40 years ago.

And again...in Pittsburgh compared to places like Milwaukee and Indy there is not an NBA team and there hasn't been in decades.

 

[ameoba defense]

Re: Here's a thought ...

Originally posted by recruitsreadtheseboards:

Originally posted by ameoba defense:

Originally posted by recruitsreadtheseboards:

Originally posted by DT_PITT:
... this is the best college team that I could come up with made up of players from Western PA from the last 25 years.





Starting Five

C- Dejuan Blair
F-Danny Fortson
F-DeAndre Kane
G-Dante Calabria
G-TJ McConnell

Other scholarships

F-DJ Kennedy
F-Pete Sauer
C-Zeke Marshall
G-Devin Wilson
F-Mike Young
G-Archie Miller
G-Tom Pipkins
F-Herb Pope
On this list, we have a total of 3 All-Americans (Kane, Blair, Fortson) and 4 players who were All-Conference (McConnell, Pope, Pipkins, and Marshall -- the last two in the A-10 and MAC) and one who could be (Young).

For an area with the metro population of Pittsburgh, this is an incredibly small list.

DT, a few months back I posted something that the (relatively) small African American population of the Western PA region with comparable sized markets had something to do with this. Because race is a political football, people discounted or just did not want to discuss this. So.....who knows. But......one other thing I brought up in another thread, is possibly the lack of an NBA presence locally that could relate to this same phenomena.

Like posted above, just in the last 4 years, the greater Milwaukee area has produced 4 Five Star kids and 10 Four star kids. This is just in 4 years. Sam Dekker, Bronson Koenig, Devon Looney, JP Tokoto, Luke Fischer are among these kids.

4 years. That is just incredible, and no one is really considering this area the hotbed of HS basketball.

In the heart of the Midwest, hoops seems to be a much bigger deal among white kids than it is back east. The Big 10 always seems to have plenty of white kids who can play. Not so much back this way. In places like Indiana especially, there seems to be a basketball culture among whites that sort of compliments the inner city basketball culture. In Pittsburgh, even the inner city hoops culture has become weak. The outdoor courts are mostly empty now. That never was the case 40 years ago.

And again...in Pittsburgh compared to places like Milwaukee and Indy there is not an NBA team and there hasn't been in decades.

Even with that being true, hoops was big in Indiana decades before the Pacers came to town. The popularity of hoops is why a pro team was put there. Pro teams failed here due to lack of interest.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I'm be a bit of homer:
But I think David Young (who played at Xavier) and was a 2nd round NBA draft pick,
Kevin Covert scored 2612 points in HS, but had qualification issues keeping out of big time college but went to RMU.
and Chris Kirkland from Sto-Rox was a great HS player who had a nice career at UMass.

Just as less talked about local players.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

Memphis is another seemingly random basketball hotbed that's only slightly larger than Milwaukee (about 50K more people). That place churns out a few Top 100 kids a year and at least 1 or 2 Top 50 kids. I think it's the most underrated hoops city out there. It's amazing.

 

[yc_ballcat]

Memphis might be underrated by relative newcomers or from a standpoint of recent developments but anyone who's followed high school ball and/or recruiting since at least the 80s or 90s knows about Memphis.

 

[DT_PITT]

I didn't even know that ...

... David Young was drafted.

It's hard to understand how -- he had a completely unremarkable career at Xavier -- never averaged more than 8PPG.

Again -- knowing these are the guys we are talking about even further makes the point.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Re: I didn't even know that ...

Originally posted by DT_PITT:
... David Young was drafted.

It's hard to understand how -- he had a completely unremarkable career at Xavier -- never averaged more than 8PPG.

Again -- knowing these are the guys we are talking about even further makes the point.

I just looked it up, didn't know either.

Mostly I was thinking of player who I actually saw who struck me as good.

There was some other kid who went to Union who played D1, that I played with at the YMCA during summers in the late 90s...I just can't remember his name

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Originally posted by Pittbaseball11:
Memphis is another seemingly random basketball hotbed that's only slightly larger than Milwaukee (about 50K more people). That place churns out a few Top 100 kids a year and at least 1 or 2 Top 50 kids. I think it's the most underrated hoops city out there. It's amazing.

Oh sure. For one thing, don't just look at population of cities. You can fit 3 Pittsburgh's in the sq mile footprint of cities like Memphis and Okie City. You have to look at the Metro Area population.

But you are right about Memphis.

BUT...it also speaks to what I posted a few months ago. Memphis in its metro area, which is probably HALF of the population of Pittsburgh, probably has TWICE the African American population. And I know in this feel good world, where everything and everyone is equal we don't like to admit, but the racial composition of the NBA, let alone the Top 25 indicates that this in fact does make a difference in basketball talent.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

I'm not knowledgable enough to know hs players ,but looking at that list maybe people can better understand why Pitt has a hard time competing as an elite bb school. No one gets all their local kids ,some kids just want to go away from home ,but in any 5 year period if Piit got the 3 best players from each class in WPa would they be able to compete with the elites? Doesn't appear so.

 

[thebadby2]

Might be just a hair outside the 25 year cutoff, but the best I can think

of is Armen Gillliam, who was head and shoulders better than anyone on the lists I've seen in this thread.

That said, it doesn't change your point, which is that the WPIAL is a college basketball wasteland.

That first group you listed was about the equivalent of any Detroit all-PSL team in a decent year. And that's just Detroit-add in Flint, Saginaw and Lansing-all roughly within an hour of Detroit-and the disparity is even more glaring.

Amazing too that there dont seem to be any great small men on the list. With all due respect to TJ McConnell, who was a solid player, that's the best PG we can come up with? That's saying something.

While I don't think that helps Pitt recruiting, I also don't buy that its the reason we struggle to get players.

 

[DT_PITT]

I think he graduated HS in 1982 ...

... but yes, had he been in the cutoff, he would be the best on the list. Along with Maurice Lucas, maybe the best area players there have been.

 

[ameoba defense]

Re: I think he graduated HS in 1982 ...

Originally posted by DT_PITT:
... but yes, had he been in the cutoff, he would be the best on the list. Along with Maurice Lucas, maybe the best area players there have been.

Billy Knight was a very solid player as well. Of course, Maurice Stokes was becoming a superstar when his career was cut tragically short.

Bet you'll never guess which local player has the highest career scoring average for his professional career.

 

[thebadby2]

Re: I think he graduated HS in 1982 ...

My dad played at Westinghouse with Stokes, said he was a beast, just unstoppable, and one of the nicest guys he ever met.They were a couple of years apart, I think my old man was a senior and Stokes was a couple of years younger.

One of the saddest sports stories ever, and Stokes' relationship with Jack Twyman is one of the most inspirational.

 

[imajericho]

Was gonna say http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/27007/ben-mccauley


But, you guys already had him on the list.

 

[TreesHero]

Re: I didn't even know that ...

Originally posted by SoufOaklin4Life:

There was some other kid who went to Union who played D1, that I played with at the YMCA during summers in the late 90s...I just can't remember his name

Corey Hunt? Well, I think his first name was Corey. I'm also pretty sure he went D1, but I don't recall the school.








EDIT: Looks like Cory is in the RMU hall of fame for track & field. I could have sworn there was a Hunt from Union HS who played college basketball. Link: http://rmucolonials.com/hof.aspx?hof=42&path=&kiosk=







This post was edited on 4/9 8:42 AM by TreesHero

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

What is funny, we all at one point on here have bemoaned (love that word) the lack of the quality big men that this area fails to produce. And we all come up with theories, population, demographics, etc....why? Why? Why can other cities of similar size regular produce high end 6'9" talents and Pittsburgh and Western Pa can't.

But I think from the list....what is even more disheartening, is the lack of guards. Really true elite guards. No Tyus Jones's here. He is from Minneapolis. Another similar sized city (who incidentally has an NBA team).

And for this, I do think there is some explanation. One is competition and lack of a decent AAU program. Two is more obvious. Football. I think this is definitely where football becomes a factor. In say the Tidewater area, a young Allen Iverson chooses basketball as his route. Here in Western Pa, a young Darrelle Revis chooses football. Both kids may have been stars in the other sports. Terrelle Pryor is a perfect example of this, he was a top 25 hooper his soph year, a 5 star, committed to Pitt, he ends up playing football at Ohio State.

 

[Harve74]

Recruits,

A guy who makes your point, and is pretty much overlooked is Lance Jeter. He was arguably the most electric high school basketball player around here for a few years but signed at Cincy for football.

That didn't work out and he ended up transferring to Nebraska andstarting two years at PG. His stats there were better than a couple of the guards on DT's list.

The question any kid from around here is going to face is level of competition. Unless he plays against high level guys in AAU or goes out of the area like Mike Young and Rowan have done, it is very tough to get national notice coming from the WPIAL.

Still there just are almost NO 6-8 and above kids. That is just dumbfounding. I used to always go to the WPIAL playoffs as an undergrad at the Civic Arena. There were three playoff games per night in the first couple rounds, so 6 teams. There were usually at least a 6-8 kid every night, at least on the bigger schools. Some teams had a couple.

I mean overall talent has certainly dropped. Almost every night there was at least one college prospect to watch.

Now, TWO D-1 kids from the WHOLE area? Unreal.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Originally posted by Harve74:
Recruits,

A guy who makes your point, and is pretty much overlooked is Lance Jeter. He was arguably the most electric high school basketball player around here for a few years but signed at Cincy for football.

That didn't work out and he ended up transferring to Nebraska andstarting two years at PG. His stats there were better than a couple of the guards on DT's list.

The question any kid from around here is going to face is level of competition. Unless he plays against high level guys in AAU or goes out of the area like Mike Young and Rowan have done, it is very tough to get national notice coming from the WPIAL.

Still there just are almost NO 6-8 and above kids. That is just dumbfounding. I used to always go to the WPIAL playoffs as an undergrad at the Civic Arena. There were three playoff games per night in the first couple rounds, so 6 teams. There were usually at least a 6-8 kid every night, at least on the bigger schools. Some teams had a couple.

I mean overall talent has certainly dropped. Almost every night there was at least one college prospect to watch.

Now, TWO D-1 kids from the WHOLE area? Unreal.

And the TWO kids aren't exactly going to P5 conference teams.

 

[Piranha]

The biggest difference between Pittsburgh and cities like Minnesota, Milwaukee, etc. is they have an NBA team. You don't hear a peep about the NBA here, so kids in Pittsburgh are not exposed to basketball as much. Pittsburgh city schools have lost a lot of kids, as well as other traditional areas in which you would find good black athletes - Valley, Penn Hills, Aliquippa, Duquesne, etc.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Re: I didn't even know that ...

Originally posted by TreesHero:

Originally posted by SoufOaklin4Life:

There was some other kid who went to Union who played D1, that I played with at the YMCA during summers in the late 90s...I just can't remember his name

Corey Hunt? Well, I think his first name was Corey. I'm also pretty sure he went D1, but I don't recall the school.








EDIT: Looks like Cory is in the RMU hall of fame for track & field. I could have sworn there was a Hunt from Union HS who played college basketball. Link: http://rmucolonials.com/hof.aspx?hof=42&path=&kiosk=







This post was edited on 4/9 8:42 AM by TreesHero

It's completely gone from my skull. And maybe I'm completely wrong.

But, did think of Steve McNees from Shenango..scored over 2000 points in HS and had a nice career at Akron.

 

[drunkinoakland]

I agree with Harve. We don't even have 6'6 to 6'10 kids that stink. I went to a AAA high school and graduated in 05. we were surrounded by two AAAA schools, a triple A school and 2 single A schools. The only kid I remember over 6'6 played division 1 bball. Everyone else was running around with 6'3-6'4 centers, and a lot of these teams made the playoffs!
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